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post #1 of 22 Old 06-20-2013, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

Well I have been lurking these forums for a few months now, and its time for me to nut up or shut up!

As the title say's im from Australia, Im 30, absolutely no experience in the building game, not overly cluey on home theatre equipment either.
However after reading so MANY pages on this forum whilst trying to act like a sponge and absorb as much info as possible, im at a point where I am starting to freak out
about which options, sources etc.

My house is currently under construction and my site supervisor has advised me that i have only 4-5 weeks to have all my cable and insulation/gyprock etc ready to install.
The room is 7.3M long by 4.8M wide and a 2.7M high roof. Unfortunately my lack of skills also carries over to drawing programs, so I can not provide any fancy computer sketches.
Here is the floor plan of the room,
.
The house is brick construction, so the HT room will have 2 external walls and 2 internal.
This is an example of the external view of the finished product.
.
I do however have this fancy drawing i made as a base for my design of the floor plan.
.

My main sources of inspiration are Mario's "The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread" & Gary's "My New Home Theater 2.0, Staggered Wall HT".

The basics is a raised floor front and back, a false wall for the speakers at the front, which will also hold an acoustic screen. 2 rows of seats 4 and 3.
a Bar along the centre back wall of the room which will house a bar fridge, audio equipment, some shelves for blurays etc. Topped with a stone bench to hold the popcorn machine
candy etc. Like many other builds, my front stage will be filled with sand and the back riser filled with insulation. Bass traps in the front corners behind the screen. Many acoustic panels along the walls
similar to Gary's room and 2 columns for hiding speakers on the back wall and 2 on the side walls. Once I actually move into the house (Estimated early December). I will start posting photos and try and stay as active as possible on the thread.

I have decided on a product called CSR Fire stop 16mm - 2 layers, from the forums i have read, it seams this is similar in density to 13mm soundstop sheeting.
Plus it is cheaper also:)

The Windows!!!!! I originally asked for NO windows, but regulations in australia will not allow for that! So my plan is to keep the windows in place, for the lower window of the 2,
After handover, I will remove the architrave from the internal, tint the glass so you can not see through from the outside, fill the window frame with insulation and gyprock over the top.
I will keep the top window but have a fancier plan for it. I will be making a internal frame, fill with insulation and dress with fabric (Basically an acoustic panel) I will add foam around the outside
so i can push it into the window space as a snug fit, but if needed can easily slide it back out if required. I would love to hear your thoughts about my proposed plan, any better ideas.

Finally, my dream HT will comprise of a JVC DLA-X50, A 160" 2.37:1 Acoustic Vision4K screen. Im quite a fan of the Klipsch RF82 and RS52 surrounds, fingers crossed my wallet can allow for this when the time comes, I will be starting
with a 5.1 and moving to 7.1 later or if im greedy or my wife signs off on it smile.gif i will go straight for the extra speakers. In regards to powering the speakers i have no ideas yet. I am allready in possession of a Oppo 93 and a popcornhour
so these will be my media players. The house will be completely networked with cat6 runnign from a media cupboard in the hallway, this will house a pc, security and home audio controller.
For lighting the soffit will house downlights & Led strip lighting. and I am leaning towards using Z-wave in the HT and other locations for a little automation.

Lastly, let me thank you all for your inspirational builds, ideas and knowledge. I look forward to getting to know many of you over the coming months.
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post #2 of 22 Old 09-01-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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No replies yet?

Update, spent 20 hours this weekend running all the network cabling through the house and adding speaker wire for the cinema room.
Decided with a 12 gauge wire. I have allowed for a 9.1 setup.
For insulation, i used Bunnings acoustic earth wool. Surpisingly not too bad to work with, hardly any loose fibers.







Also, received my Z-Wave starter kit and Ir to WIFI module. Hooked it up to a few test lights and my oppo. Made a simple macro to dim the lights when i press play. works like a charm.
Cant wait to hook this up in the room.
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post #3 of 22 Old 09-01-2013, 08:30 PM
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Welcome aboard. The picture of the similar home is really something. Very nice.

I would get a home theater designer involved before you do anything else. It is probably the most important thing you can do right from the start and it will affect everything else. I did quite a bit of research and I still decided to spring for the AVS layout through the Erskine Group. There is just so much that I don't know that I don't know.

How much of that space will be finished by your contractors? Have you decided to implement any sound isolation measures? That will make an impact on all your decisions from here on out. Do you have a total budget in mind for the project? Can you tell us how far down the beam that is in your plans comes down? I also have a beam and it is quite a pain.
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post #4 of 22 Old 09-01-2013, 09:41 PM
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G'day and welcome, good to see another Aussie thread - we're slowly taking over!

Who's your builder?

Not going for clips and channel?....Isolation is the one thing you cant change (cheaply) once the room is done.

Best of luck with it.

Cheers.

PS - Put "Downunder" in the name and join the party biggrin.gif

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post #5 of 22 Old 09-01-2013, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

G'day and welcome, good to see another Aussie thread - we're slowly taking over!

Who's your builder?

Not going for clips and channel?....Isolation is the one thing you cant change (cheaply) once the room is done.

Best of luck with it.

Cheers.

PS - Put "Downunder" in the name and join the party biggrin.gif

Hi Elill,

We are building with Masterton.

I originally planned to use c channel and sound clips from the very beginning. But 2 things changed my mind.
Firstly, I was looking at around $2000 for clips GG. And im trying to keep cost downs as much as possible.

Secondly, I had my 30th Birthday, my wife hired out a gold class reading cinema and invited 25 of my closest.
The manager on the night gave me a tour to the projection area and let me see the computers running the software, how it all works etc.
Then i got a tour behind the screen, wow! so i asked him what they are using for sound isolation. his response each room has 3 layers of fyrchek or firestop plaster.
separated of course with a cavity between rooms and another 3 layers. no clips no green glue.

So Masterton, let me tell you the sales people have NO CLUE what they are talking about, i asked can i put in my own insulation? the answer NO.
Can i supply my own gyprock, NO. So I decided fair enough, i can always tear it all down after handover, cry myself to sleep for a few nights than start all over.
Until I met my site supervisor, told him my master plan, he said..... all good mate tell me what you want to achieve, if you supply i will get my boys to do the work and we wont tell head office!!!!!

Now on the cheap.... dont hate me, and may very well have been a stupid exercise. I found green tape through an extremely cheap supplier and have run it on all the timber frames. I was about half finished in the photo above.
Not sure if it will help, but i guess i will never know truly.

So anyway, I ended up getting the supervisor to build the frame off the walls leaving a 2 inch cavity all the way around. Added the acoustic insulation and they are installing the 2 layers of firestop tomorrow.

Im not going for recording studio isolation, just enough to help. I have some good plans for sound absorbtion and diffusion. Well in my mind any way.

Cheers
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post #6 of 22 Old 09-02-2013, 03:34 PM
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Good to hear you've got a good site manager....half the battle!

Shame you cant get a staggered or double frame, at least you've go the best dry wall for the job (the tape wont do anything unfortunately). What are you doing about a door?

Windows.....stupid rule isn't it

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post #7 of 22 Old 09-02-2013, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

Good to hear you've got a good site manager....half the battle!

Shame you cant get a staggered or double frame, at least you've go the best dry wall for the job (the tape wont do anything unfortunately). What are you doing about a door?

Windows.....stupid rule isn't it


You should have seen the look on the reps face when i asked for no windows lol. it was almost like she wanted to say, you know you will die from lack of oxygen and light in there....

For the windows, the bottom window will have black tint so can not see from the outside, then filled with insulation and double gyprocked over.
For the top window, again black tint, I will then be creating a diffuser panel, 2400x600 the frame will 90x35, with 2" acoustic foam, black fabricked over.
I will screw a 19mm MDF over the top of the frame and create 40x40mm cust offs (foam maybe) let me know if you have a better idea. at random lengths and angles and glued accross the surface, I imagine this will take me
a fair bit of time and patience. then i will probably spray with some sort of charcoal/metallic to finish. The inside of the window frame will be covered with acoustic foam to create
a seal around my 90x35 frame, without having to fix it permanently. Just a snug push in solution.

Sort of like this -


The door will be double doors, solid core. Inner frames to be covered in black acoustic foam and a auto seal added to the bottom of the doors.
The inside of the doors will be covered in acoustic panels.

As for the green tape, I figured as much, but only cost me about $40 all up so it was worth a try.
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-02-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Welcome aboard. The picture of the similar home is really something. Very nice.

I would get a home theater designer involved before you do anything else. It is probably the most important thing you can do right from the start and it will affect everything else. I did quite a bit of research and I still decided to spring for the AVS layout through the Erskine Group. There is just so much that I don't know that I don't know.

How much of that space will be finished by your contractors? Have you decided to implement any sound isolation measures? That will make an impact on all your decisions from here on out. Do you have a total budget in mind for the project? Can you tell us how far down the beam that is in your plans comes down? I also have a beam and it is quite a pain.

Hi Mate,

Thank you for the suggestions. The only thing the contractors are doing is installing and setting the fire stop, from there after handover,
I have decided to do this theatre complete DIY. My budget is around 30K. Speakers, Screen & Projector puts me around $15,000.
So i still need to build stages, diffuser panels, acoustic panels, S**T load of fabric, and finish off with 2 sets of cinema lounges.
Budget will be tight.

If you are referring to the steel beam. My ceilings for the bottom floor are 2.7M h, so the bottom of this beam is at this height.
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post #9 of 22 Old 09-03-2013, 09:43 AM
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Ok, great news that your beam does not come down into the room and limit your height. You have successfully avoided that nightmare.

I have a similar budget as of now and I may or may not be able to fit chairs and a new set of front 3 speakers into that budget. I am already over budget by 10K so it is discouraging. Amazing how fast the money is spent. Still it is a healthy budget and I say if you can't be happy with a 30K theater then too bad. I am sure I will enjoy mine even if I have to throw a bean bag in there to sit on! The fact that you are doing most of the labor yourself will save you a ton so I think you will be fine.

You mentioned the Klipsch RF82 and surrounds. I have the Klipsch RF83's and RS62's. I am selling my RS62's because they were just too big to be hidden. I too enjoy the sound of the Klipsch Reference line. However, they may not be the best choice for theater duty. I am not saying they are bad but I think owning them gives me some leeway to point out their deficiencies. They are capable speakers for most people but they may or may not be enough to handle some rooms and listening distances if you want reference capability meaning 105 db peaks. If you have an AT screen you may need to boost the treble and the tweeter may or may not be up to the task. My first row is only 9.5' from the screen. Second will be around 14.5 so I don't have very far to go and I am crossing my fingers. If you like the Klipsch sound I might suggest looking at the Klipsch Ultra 2's. They are tailor made for the room you are trying to put together and from what I am told they are a BIG step up. I have never heard them but a friend of mine in town just bought them so I will get a chance pretty soon and I am really looking forward to it. There are so many great brands out there and I would encourage you not to buy any equipment until you have a solid room design in place but just a few names to look at would be Triad, JTR, Seaton, and Procella. There are some amazing DIY designs out there now using the SEOS stuff and lots of helpful threads in the DIY speaker section. I just had a chance to listen to a few pairs of them at a friends house and the dollar to value ratio is off the charts. I plan to do a blind comparison with the SEOS DIY stuff, JTR Noesis 212, and my Klipsch RF 83's when my room is done and it might be interesting. Anyway that is way too much talk about speakers this early in the game.

Regarding the sound isolation. I think the best thing you have done so far is getting your contractors to build the frame off the walls leaving a 2'' cavity. That will be HUGE in my opinion. Decoupling is the most important aspect of sound isolation. Sound isolation does add a lot of cost but it adds time and frustration as well. It is not the end of the world if you do not do any isolation especially as far as preventing sound from leaving the room is concerned. But, you will want to do what you can to keep the noise floor to at least a respectable value which means at lest trying to address the hvac and making sure you think about other mechanicals that may be in close proximity to your room. Another important thing is just making sure that the room is built using solid construction techniques to prevent rattles etc.
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post #10 of 22 Old 09-03-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Still it is a healthy budget and I say if you can't be happy with a 30K theater then too bad.

Can someone get me a soapbox? ........just an FYI, construction materials in Australia are about 4x the price of that in the US and labour.....well.....10x the Mexican price and probably 2-4x the "normal"....its BS
Quote:
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Regarding the sound isolation. I think the best thing you have done so far is getting your contractors to build the frame off the walls leaving a 2'' cavity. That will be HUGE in my opinion. Decoupling is the most important aspect of sound isolation. .

I agree, doesn't help the ceiling issue though (he could clip and channel that). Again he might find it cheaper to clip and channel the whole room as the labour and timber for double wall wont be cheap
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

SEOS DIY stuff, JTR Noesis 212, and my Klipsch RF 83's

I think you'll be pleasantly impressed withthe SEOS, especially if coupled with an Acoustic Elegance "mid"

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post #11 of 22 Old 09-03-2013, 08:10 PM
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Well, it looks like I need to become a builder down under! But seriously that is a bummer.

Totally agree about the ceiling needing clips and channel. It is the most important surface. I wonder how much the builders would charge for a room within a room concept. But, maybe he doesn't mind doing the labor for clips and channel himself. Tough call.

I would say if you are really going to all the trouble of doing a double door system then you might as well match it with full sound isolation techniques on the rest of it. On the other hand after hearing what materials cost is in Australia maybe it is just not worth it. Sound isolation will add lots of time, money, and frustration to your build because you will need to address hvac and electrical in the process. Like I said tough call. Best of luck.
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post #12 of 22 Old 09-04-2013, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I did consider using clips and channel for all walls and ceiling, but like Elill stated the price in Aus is astronomical! I just cant justify it, without hearing the results first.

Im not going to stress too much yet on the sound isolation, once i can get in there setup my current system and see how the room goes as is.
Im still planning on 2 layers of 16mm on the ceiling, plus then building a decent soffit around the room, which will also be filled with insulation.

Surely i will be able to crank that badboy up and hopefully not distrub the neibours. lucky for me im on a corner block, so really only 1 neibour to be concerned about.

Check out my photos of my old projector room. Now that is some not so sound isolation going on. lol 3 walls, not insulated, covered in 10mm gyprock and 6mm external panels.
Timber flooring with multiple gaps in the joins on pillars.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-04-2013, 04:14 AM
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Yes - building in Australia is expensive - I noticed it after living in the Seattle area for almost 15 years.

Clips and Channel are a good idea for the ceiling. You can buy these locally quite easily. I also used 2 layers of Fire Check + Green Glue in between the layers. GG is expensive in Australia though.

At this point before all the sheet rock goes up, you want to make sure that you've got all your wiring in. One thing I didn't account for was these new XBOX Kinnects that like to be up the front of the room, vs hidden away nicely in a closet. Make sure you get your wiring in and run some conduit for what you forgot smile.gif

I just had a fabric and insulation delivery for my OC701/OC703 and GOM equivalents. Send me a PM if you need some tips on sourcing those locally.
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post #14 of 22 Old 09-04-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes - building in Australia is expensive - I noticed it after living in the Seattle area for almost 15 years.

Clips and Channel are a good idea for the ceiling. You can buy these locally quite easily. I also used 2 layers of Fire Check + Green Glue in between the layers. GG is expensive in Australia though.

At this point before all the sheet rock goes up, you want to make sure that you've got all your wiring in. One thing I didn't account for was these new XBOX Kinnects that like to be up the front of the room, vs hidden away nicely in a closet. Make sure you get your wiring in and run some conduit for what you forgot smile.gif

I just had a fabric and insulation delivery for my OC701/OC703 and GOM equivalents. Send me a PM if you need some tips on sourcing those locally.

Hi Dsiroky,

I checked out your thread, I too have found Rim Fabrics, and it is quite cheap. If you are intersted I have also found a local supplier for GOM and another which looks very similar.

How have you found the 2 layers of the Fire Check go for quiteness? I was planning on the GG route, but again kepping cost down I opted out.

I see you also say Sugarloaf? are you referring to Newcastle/Hunter Valley?
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-14-2014, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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To anyone who can help,

Since moving into the home, I have added a 16mm layer of acoustic drywall to all existing walls (10mm standard plasterboard) and ceiling with construction liquid nail glue (1 tube per sheet) then screwed to the studs.

I have enough sheets of 16mm to do a 2nd layer on top again (so 3 layers total). However I am not confident on the fixing method, do i use liquid nails again? green glue is too expensive for my budget, and I am afraid that due to the a/c vents/windows and doors sound will leak anyway.

so I could use a fire rated polyurethane based glue, liquid nails or just screw the 3rd layer straight over the top with no glue?



HELP
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-04-2014, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,


Progress has been slow. I have been playing around in google sketch for a couple weeks to get an idea on the final look im going for, and to help visualise the riser platform and stage.





I am going for a black and sand colour scheme on the walls, carpet? well I have no idea for that yet. Love to hear your opinions on the colour, has anyone else gone the light cream route? is it distracting the light reflection from the screen?
The walls will be covered in acoustic panels at differrent depths for that staggerred look. The back bar area will have stackstone as a nice little feature and im hoping this will act as a diffuser?

And to top it all off, I have decided on a 4K acoustic vision plus 160" screen. My thought process for this, Is if it is too large and overwhelming than i can always add extra masking later on.

Will be getting the front stage and rear riser started this weekend so will hopefully have some progress pics to show you all soon.
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-04-2014, 10:09 PM
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Looks great!

PSN Brown-Corolla
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-10-2014, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

Need some quick advice. I have framed up the rear riser and will be filling with insulation this weekend in readiness for the ply top.

I need to know what kind of provisional wiring i should add? I am planning on adding the led strip lighting under the nose of the stairs, and potentially run some bass shakers later on.

Should I just run 240V outlet cable to a junction box, so i can plug in the 12V adapter for the LED strip, and a possible plate amp for the bass shakers?
or run a 12V cable and a RCA lead from the equipment rack to a junction box?
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-10-2014, 05:18 PM
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I am far from an expert,

But If there's one rule I live by, it is "You can never have enough power points"

For seats -
I'd run 240v and conduit (for RCA's etc) to underneath where each row of seats will be.
Finished off with a nice dark plate you'll never be able to see them, yet you'll be able to easily add change move stuff.

For lighting - depends on how you're going to control it.
If you have a wall plate and plug the 12v adaptor into it, you'll be forever bending down to turn it on and off wont you? Unless its remote controlled?
If you have a remote, then I'd make a recess in the step and set the power point back in it.
If no remote, then adaptor somewhere close to rack, so that you can perhaps add some automation to it. Then run 12v out to the lights.

Just my 2c

hopefully a real expert will weigh in

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post #20 of 22 Old 06-10-2014, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Mud,

Thanks for the input. I purchased one of those cheap 5M led strips off ebay which has a remote.

But I am hoping, and I emphasise HOPE, that my vision will come to fruition of the theatre being 100% wirelessly controlled, from PJ to lighting.

I have purchased a few Z-wave products from smarthome, if you have not heard of theme, i would give them a google. Its like a wirless C-bus system.
Everything is still in their boxes as yet and wont be pulling them out until the theatre is almost complete. I purchased the vera lite and 2 light controllers & the SQ blaster plus,
they also have plug in-line adapters for power points and even offer a RGB led strip light controller, all controllable through ios/android.

Conduit size 50mm? I hate pulling cables through conduit.
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-10-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
I have purchased a few Z-wave products from smarthome, if you have not heard of theme, i would give them a google. Its like a wirless C-bus system.
Yes I've seen these,
I went the easier route and just added a Clipsal IR switch to my existing down lights, and programmed my harmony remote to suit
Quote:
Everything is still in their boxes as yet and wont be pulling them out until the theatre is almost complete. I purchased the vera lite and 2 light controllers & the SQ blaster plus,
they also have plug in-line adapters for power points and even offer a RGB led strip light controller, all controllable through ios/android.

Conduit size 50mm? I hate pulling cables through conduit.

that will be quite impressive.

I would think 50mm is pretty big for just a couple of wires, though if its not an issue and it's all concealed the bigger the better,

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post #22 of 22 Old 07-27-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Update

Hi All, quick update.

I havent had a chance to take many photos during the whole process, and when i do, I have just been taking them with my phone so nothing too special.
So far, - I have finished the rear riser frame, filled with insulation and I have laid the flooring down as a test.

- Starting the soffit framing.
- Front stage is complete filled with sand and finished with 2 layers of yellowtongue flooring with a layer of acoustic foam, feels very solid almost like stomping on concrete.
- Screen wall built using 70x35 pine, bottom railing sits on top of a neporene rubber then screwed into the stage framing. I have attached it to the ceiling with aluminum L brackets
and anti vibration rubber between the bracket and the ceiling. Finished Inner Screen area size will be 3900 x 1650.

I painted the back wall as a bit of a test to see how my old hitachi went projecting an image of that size.

The most exciting part of the weekend was hanging the electric curtain track and re-using my old velour blinds from my previous home theatre.
- Last thing i was able to get done this weekend was a black acoustic face panel for the bottom of the screen.

All coming along well next weekend I will start the following,
- Finish the soffit
- Build the projector screen frame (If material arrives).
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Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

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