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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

quamosa's Avatar quamosa
11:21 AM Liked: 40
post #271 of 300
01-26-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
the standard variety of velcro could hold my 2x4 panels... the biggest problem was the wall wouldn't hold the velcro. even with the staples, it would rip the paper right off the sheetrock when forces got higher. mines are velcro and friction fit, so that does most of the holding. the velcro is just so it doesn't come loose and fall when i'm jammin out.
Interesting. I haven't had any of the strips so much as even peel away at the corners yet. I've tried pushing down on the panels with force as well as try pulling them away from wall with both hands and I'm not able to get them to budge. Ill see how they hold up over time.

Other permanent options for hanging panels that I considered are z clips and insulation impaling clips.
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
03:06 PM Liked: 50
post #272 of 300
01-26-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by quamosa View Post
Interesting. I haven't had any of the strips so much as even peel away at the corners yet. I've tried pushing down on the panels with force as well as try pulling them away from wall with both hands and I'm not able to get them to budge. Ill see how they hold up over time.

Other permanent options for hanging panels that I considered are z clips and insulation impaling clips.
It must be my Sheetrock then? The paint holds and the actual paper is peeling on mine. I have to wedge a knife in there to ensure it pulls from the Velcro and not the wall.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
03:37 PM Liked: 40
post #273 of 300
01-26-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
It must be my Sheetrock then? The paint holds and the actual paper is peeling on mine. I have to wedge a knife in there to ensure it pulls from the Velcro and not the wall.
Oh man, that sux. I believe I listed T25 as the staple type. That was wrong. I used T50 staples 3/8". One staple on each side of the velcro strip like this: |[||||[| with [ being the staple and | being the velcro. They are 3/8" inch wide and 3/8" long staples. I used a manual stapler for those. They clamp the velcro into the wall pretty tight. How are you attaching your staples? Maybe the staples make the difference?
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
04:02 PM Liked: 50
post #274 of 300
01-26-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
With a pnumatic gun. I put the two same as you but on on top and one on bottom also. I don't forsee having to peel them off anyway. And the ones I do move, around the screen, hold onto the wood strong enough to hang off of.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
02:22 PM Liked: 40
post #275 of 300
02-03-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Finished building all the panels and insulation is installed in all panels, still need to wrap 6 panels with GOM and install on the rear wall and double doors when I get them.
I ended up going with the Roxul 60 over the 705 as the asborption coefficients were slightly higher and at less than half the price. I also added FSK to the Roxul to increase the low bass absorption and also give back some reflectivity on the higher frequencies.



quamosa's Avatar quamosa
11:42 PM Liked: 40
post #276 of 300
02-07-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Finished the rear wall panels.



I have 2 panels left to wrap in GOM and 4 remaining panels to hang. [emoji3] These will go on the double door when I get it.

I also started adding the second step to the stage.





I plan on adding my last two bags of sand to the left and right rear sections of the stage.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
04:25 PM Liked: 40
post #277 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Finished up the stage.

I extended the stage curve a little.



I have a bunch of roof felt left so I used it to isolate.



Filled the curve part of the stage with pink fluffy and 2 bags of sand for the left and right rear sections. Thought I had a picture but might've deleted it accidentally. I also line the studs with liquid nails.





The second step balances out the boldness of the wall paneling.



Next up is either finish up the screen wall or add my 10" subs to the bottom of the towers.
Swervepf's Avatar Swervepf
08:24 PM Liked: 22
post #278 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 206
Joined: Aug 2012
Looking really really good! Wondering how the roof felt isolates in the stage?

I'm working on window sills made with MDF and returns made of drywall that bridge a double stud wall. I'm attaching the sill to the inner stud but not to the outer framing. It'll essentially just rest on the outer framing in an attempt to not couple the inner and outer framing through the sill. Wondering if the roof felt under the sill would help at all.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
09:48 PM Liked: 40
post #279 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervepf View Post
Looking really really good! Wondering how the roof felt isolates in the stage?

I'm working on window sills made with MDF and returns made of drywall that bridge a double stud wall. I'm attaching the sill to the inner stud but not to the outer framing. It'll essentially just rest on the outer framing in an attempt to not couple the inner and outer framing through the sill. Wondering if the roof felt under the sill would help at all.
Thanks! The felt adds a little mass which aids in dampening vibration and sound transmission.

Many builds here use it to isolate riser and stage wood from concrete as well as sandwiched between ply like green glue.

It should work just as well for your sill. You can always layer it as well if you like to increase the mass. Biggest plus is that its cheap and you get a ton of it in a roll.

I used it to isolate the stage from the concrete floor as well. The sub on the stage really pounds hard without an iota of vibration noise from the wood felt concrete sandwich. My rear sub sits on a decoupled box of sand with felt underneath and no discernable noise transmits there either.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A
10:02 PM Liked: 288
post #280 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 4,276
Joined: Dec 2008
I believe the roofing felt is used as a moisture barrier. It's going to offer very little on terms of mass.

Between layers of ply it's used to prevent squeaks. It doesn't provide any damping like GG.

Great build!
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
10:26 PM Liked: 40
post #281 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Thanks! I've learned and unlearned a lot in this build.

I used the felt to get rid of squeaks and wood vibration noise.

How about using multiple layers of felt or some rubber padding for damping/isolation?
rmendis's Avatar rmendis
10:41 PM Liked: 11
post #282 of 300
02-15-2015 | Posts: 15
Joined: Jul 2004
Thanks for posting these progress pics. It looks great!
So many questions, but I'll hold off until you're done.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
11:56 AM Liked: 40
post #283 of 300
02-17-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
I have a question for the speakerheads out there if you're listening... no pun intended.

So I have a 2 way crossover in my tower which feeds a tweeter and a midrange and now I want to add a sub to it.

Here are my requirements:
1. I don't want to use a 3-way crossover
2. I want to have the 2 way crossover output to the midrange to be split between the midrange and the subwoofer.
3. the midrange will have an inline high pass filter to give it frequencies above 200hz or 100hz
4. the sub will have an inline low pass filter to give it the frequencies below 200hz or 100hz

My question is whether the impedance on the midrange and the sub changes now that I have 2 speakers (the midrange and the sub) fed from the same output of the 2 way crossover? Also does this even sound feasible or will I have any issues with this setup?
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
03:51 PM Liked: 50
post #284 of 300
02-17-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
Why do you want to do this? The nominal impedance on the speakers doesn't change but the impedance the amp sees will change with frequency depending on the sub. A sub driver will fluctuate mich more than your woofer. Adding a crossover to a crossover doesn't seem right... Not exactly sure why.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
04:50 PM Liked: 40
post #285 of 300
02-17-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
Why do you want to do this? The nominal impedance on the speakers doesn't change but the impedance the amp sees will change with frequency depending on the sub. A sub driver will fluctuate mich more than your woofer. Adding a crossover to a crossover doesn't seem right... Not exactly sure why.
So I wanted to do this because I want to add more bass to the towers and I have a pair of subs just sitting around.
I looked for 3 way crossovers that have a bandpass? crossover for a sub that crossover as low as 200hz but couldnt find any. The subs wont do over 200hz so I figured the next best way to do it is to just use a few inline low/high pass filters instead.
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
05:46 PM Liked: 50
post #286 of 300
02-17-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
Hmm are the subs passive and external cabinets and you want to pull from the crossover out run another crossover and have an external wire to the sub?

This has several problems:
-The power rating of the crossover. This will draw mich more than originally intended and at higher levels could smoke the crossover.
-I'm not sure the quality would be idea when running a crossover and another filter, but I could be wrong.
-I've never seen sucessful integration of a speaker level sub as such
-in my opinion, Im not sure this would be better than what you have already. Some amped subs can be had for so cheap anyway then you could high pass it from the receiver.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
06:15 PM Liked: 40
post #287 of 300
02-17-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
The subs are passive and were installed as in wall subs so no cabinet per se. They came from the same manufacturer/package. The midrange actually handles 25 more watts RMS than the sub.

I'm running 2 external amped subs already. I have space to add just one more at some point in the future but for now wanted to make these 2 subs work in the towers where I have space to mount them.

The speakers are all 8 ohm and a close power match so I'm not concerned about blowing the crossover due to power. My main concern is whether I will lower the impedance of the sub and mid from 8ohms to 4ohms by powering them from the same source and quality of the resulting sound as well.

I wouldnt want to drive 4 ohms from my amp which has 8 ohms impedance.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
03:33 PM Liked: 40
post #288 of 300
02-23-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
OK, I found this on another thread in response to a similar question to mine:
"The idea of a crossover network is to isolate each of the drivers from the other electrically. Following this, the usual rules of series/parallel elements don't apply. "

So I think my next project will be adding the subs to the towers and I will check with the WAF on ordering up some black GOM for the screen wall framing. Hoping to find a source that doesnt have such a high minimum on GOM yardage as I really only need about 1-2 yards.
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
09:37 PM Liked: 50
post #289 of 300
02-24-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by quamosa View Post
OK, I found this on another thread in response to a similar question to mine:
"The idea of a crossover network is to isolate each of the drivers from the other electrically. Following this, the usual rules of series/parallel elements don't apply. "

So I think my next project will be adding the subs to the towers and I will check with the WAF on ordering up some black GOM for the screen wall framing. Hoping to find a source that doesnt have such a high minimum on GOM yardage as I really only need about 1-2 yards.
Acoustimact has their own fabric almost as good for a much lower price
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
10:51 PM Liked: 40
post #290 of 300
02-24-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
Acoustimact has their own fabric almost as good for a much lower price
Thanks. It seems like there is a nationwide shortage of black speaker cloth. They and parts express were out of stock. I ended up finding GOM at onlinefabricstore.net with a minimum order of 1 yard at a few dollars more per yard than others.

Hopefully the shipment comes by this weekend so I can close out the screen wall.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
11:13 PM Liked: 40
post #291 of 300
02-24-2015 | Posts: 279
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I've been looking at unfinished cabinets for the wet bar. They are 20% off now at the big orange. I think I'm gonna get a head start on the wet bar by ordering the parts I need.

Here is my layout plan



There's a 24" base with 3 drawers and next to that will be space for a mini fridge.

In the corner there will be a void and two 6" fillers. Then finally the sink base is on the other side with an 18" tall wall bridge cabinet above it.

I'm wondering if the void will resonate or be affected in some way by the subs in the room.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
12:55 AM Liked: 40
post #292 of 300
03-03-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Started on the screen wall. Cut all the appropriate pieces. I decided that i would have the screen sit on top of the panels.I plan to spray paint them a flat black in the garage tomorrow.



Was pretty lethargic so it took me forever and a half to do this. I used 3" deck screws. I had to use my dowel jig to drill the screw holes because I was getting a whole lotta screw tear out.



GOM wrapping that bottom part of the panel that surrounds the step should be interesting...

Ran out of the screws so will run out to big orange in the morning to replenish. Then I will assemble the right and bottom panels. Once the dry fit looks good I'll paint them and then work on the speakers while the paint dries.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
07:04 PM Liked: 40
post #293 of 300
03-03-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Sheesh! That took much longer than expected. Didnt get to the speakers. Had to run out and get more screws and a pocket jig. Here's the bottom panel



The dry fit went well. I tried to leave 1/8" space for the panels so I can wedge them in. That was tricky as some of my cuts weren't square enough. Ah well nothing some trimming with the circular saw couldn't handle.



I have a feeling that after I've wrapped with GOM that I might need more space between panels. We'll see...

I just barely almost finished spray painting the panel framing with one spray can. Will need to run out and grab another can tomorrow and finish up. Then onto the speakers.



I think while the screen is down I may as well build a box for the center channel and angle it upward... hmmmm...
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
07:58 PM Liked: 50
post #294 of 300
03-03-2015 | Posts: 388
Joined: Sep 2013
Looking good. I totally cheesed on my screen wall with 2x4, plywood, and felt tape.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
09:09 AM Liked: 40
post #295 of 300
03-04-2015 | Posts: 279
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post
Looking good. I totally cheesed on my screen wall with 2x4, plywood, and felt tape.
Ha. How's it holding up over time?

I'm hoping the extra effort and cost of using pine pays off. Not sure I've braced adequately on all ends to prevent bowing though.

I only used 2 3" deck screws to attach each 4" long pine panel support mount to the surrounding 1/2" drywall. They are in tight now but I feel like after removing the panels a bunch of times that the mounts may loosen and eventually wiggle out.
roccoleach's Avatar roccoleach
09:21 AM Liked: 50
post #296 of 300
03-04-2015 | Posts: 388
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My panels Velcro to the wood and hide most of it. Only thing exposed is the osb where the curved screen is and that's where covered with felt. I made it a tight fit With the screen
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
07:31 PM Liked: 40
post #297 of 300
03-04-2015 | Posts: 279
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OK so the speaker build was a wash. The lo/hi pass filters work just fine but the sub's just arent getting enough power. Will need another amp to do them justice. For now they are staying in the towers but are disconnected.





One last dry fit after painting the panels. I slid GOM in between the panels to ensure the fit. Had to slice a little wood here and there to get a nice fit.



Tomorrow I'll wrap them in GOM.

I was able to find enough scraps to build a small box for the center channel. Hopefully can build it tomorrow but multiple tasks in one day has got me pooped.
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
01:17 AM Liked: 40
post #298 of 300
Today | Posts: 279
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Finished wrapping the panels as we got pounded by a foot of snow.



I bought a new stapler. One that just does staples not a nailer stapler. After 3 panels and tons of staples this one never jammed. This helped me speed through the panels. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.



The fit was almost perfect. No need for Velcro. Each piece is wedged enough to hold all the panels in place. I stared at this wall all night.

I did some studying on what to do with my subs to redeem the wash they had become yesterday. I ended up adding separate connectors for the subs in each tower.



I then wired the subs in series then wired them in parallel to my perfect 10 so i could still get 4 ohms to the plate amp. The result was exquisite. The ported perfect 10 thunderous booms were balanced out by the clean bass coming from the sealed towers with not much money invested. I listened to music all night.





Next up will see what gains I get by building a box for the center channel. I also have plans to prettify the sconces and put in pendants over the rear bar.
Swervepf's Avatar Swervepf
12:40 PM Liked: 22
post #299 of 300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quamosa View Post
I've been looking at unfinished cabinets for the wet bar. They are 20% off now at the big orange. I think I'm gonna get a head start on the wet bar by ordering the parts I need.

In the corner there will be a void and two 6" fillers. Then finally the sink base is on the other side with an 18" tall wall bridge cabinet above it.
again, jealous of your progress. I'm taping and mudding my room personally right now since my mudder never returned my calls.

regarding cabinets, have you checked out ikea? It seems like a lot of the tv shows go the ikea route, but I don't know why yet, guessing cost, style choices, and/or in-stock inventory. I haven't started shopping around myself yet, but curious what your experience was.

Also, re the corner void, can you put a corner cabinet in there? Seems like wasted space not doing so?
quamosa's Avatar quamosa
01:36 PM Liked: 40
post #300 of 300
Today | Posts: 279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervepf View Post
again, jealous of your progress. I'm taping and mudding my room personally right now since my mudder never returned my calls.

regarding cabinets, have you checked out ikea? It seems like a lot of the tv shows go the ikea route, but I don't know why yet, guessing cost, style choices, and/or in-stock inventory. I haven't started shopping around myself yet, but curious what you're experience was.

Also, re the corner void, can you put a corner cabinet in there? Seems like wasted space not doing so?
Your soundproofing efforts will certainly pay off in the end. Taping and mudding was the only thing I refused to do. I did eventually end up doing a small amount.

I havent gotten the cabinets yet. I think i will check IKEA out! A coworker and my old boss seemed to like their stuff.

I originally thought I would go with a lazy Susan in the corner but I soon realized that for the extra monies spent, it probably wouldn't get much use with the other shelving I built. But you're right I hate to waste the space. That would be a total contradiction to my theater build.
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