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post #1 of 60 Old 08-16-2013, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

@AVSForum lurker taking my first step into my first Home Theater Build! Super excited to get started and have two awesome AVSForum Members Craig John and Dennis Markley giving me a tremendous amount of help so far!

Below is a sketch of the basement with very minimal mark ups of what i am planning. still need to map more out logistically this weekend but wanted to get an initial post out there to start my journey!

Planned/Purchased Equipment:

Denon AVR-X4000
Earthquake Cinenova Grande
Oppo BDP-103
JVC - DLA-RS4810
Chief Mount RPA281
Seymour AV Electronic Retractable 16:9 100" screen with masking
Triad Gold LCR's
Triad Gold On-Wall Surrounds
Seaton Submersive HP+ Master/Slave system
Xbox One
Custom HTPC running jRiver
Middle Atlantic Slim 5-29
3 x Fusion Jive - 1013 Theater seat with BK4-4 Buttkickers in Bonded Black Leather
1 x Buttkicker BKA-1000-N power amplifier

More details and pictures to come... smile.gif



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post #2 of 60 Old 08-16-2013, 07:36 PM
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Good luck with your build. I have the JVC projector and it is awesome.
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post #3 of 60 Old 08-16-2013, 09:29 PM
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With a name like that I totally expected the seating to be a row or 2 of toilets.

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post #4 of 60 Old 08-16-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ikkuranus View Post

With a name like that I totally expected the seating to be a row or 2 of toilets.

That's too funny..
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post #5 of 60 Old 08-17-2013, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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yea know i didn't expect that... i guess my creativity for thread naming is lacking! smile.gif

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post #6 of 60 Old 08-17-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post

Good luck with your build. I have the JVC projector and it is awesome.

Thanks a lot @NYGIANTSFAN23 super excited to get it next week and start playing with it! Watched your build and very impressed wish i could afford to go to that level of detail and of course have big mouths wealth of knowledge at my disposal.

Thanks,
Brandon

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post #7 of 60 Old 08-17-2013, 09:17 AM
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With a name like that I totally expected the seating to be a row or 2 of toilets.

lololololol

haha.

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post #8 of 60 Old 08-17-2013, 03:17 PM
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post #9 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 09:44 AM
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good luck! i am just waiting for my house to be built so i can start the ht -

i agree with big - why do you want a retractable screen? in a dedicated room i would think you would be happier with a fixed -
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post #10 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balinton View Post

Hi all,

Planned Equipment:

Xbox One


reeeeallllllyyyy? If you get your hands on one before they get released you better post up some pics. Otherwise I'm assuming you don't plan on getting it until the end of the year like the rest of us.

got mine on pre-order thats for sure. good luck on the build. subscribed.

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post #11 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

why a retractable screen?

Hi Big,

Retractable primarily so i can have it up away from my child when i am not home incase he is downstairs and additionally it will be an acoustically transparent screen but i would like it up for pure audio listening when i am not watching movies.

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post #12 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sonofthesun View Post

reeeeallllllyyyy? If you get your hands on one before they get released you better post up some pics. Otherwise I'm assuming you don't plan on getting it until the end of the year like the rest of us.

got mine on pre-order thats for sure. good luck on the build. subscribed.

haha... No @sonofthesun i will be waiting for my pre-order to arrive just like you and hopefully my theater will be ready my November when it shows up. I work for the company and i still don't get it any earlier than anyone else... frown.gif

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post #13 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by iamjason View Post

good luck! i am just waiting for my house to be built so i can start the ht -

i agree with big - why do you want a retractable screen? in a dedicated room i would think you would be happier with a fixed -

@iamjason i originally was planning a on wall fixed screen but saw Craig John's screen and actually like it better for my speaker placement and audio listening as well. The wall that my screen is going to be on and the depth of the room makes it slightly limiting so i believe i will be happy with this setup. i will have my projector this week so i am going to play around with screen sizes etc. to get a final verdict before i place the order for the screen.

Curious is there a reason not to get a retractable screen?

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post #14 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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got some work done this weekend was able to build some storage shelves in my utility room and get done the frame of my stage... smile.gif i plan on getting my projector setup this weekend to get an actual screen placement mocked up and tested to see what size i really need in my room so please don't judge my horrible tape job...

I do have a question for the stage i see sand is a popular material to fill with but is there any other material that anyone recommends for the stage? i would highly prefer to not lug tons of sand down into my basement and although my basement seems rather dry i would want to consider something that could possibly get moisture in it incase the unforeseen happens so i have less of a mess to cleanup if that makes sense... i haven't had a chance to research the threads yet and will do that this week.


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post #15 of 60 Old 08-18-2013, 08:05 PM
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Greetings and welcome to the madness. I feel that I should comment that the name of your thread leads the imagination on a mental image journey for sure. Of course the could be (and probably is) with me. biggrin.gif

On the stage question a lot of your concern with moisture can be mitigated by lining the cavities with thick plastic, and then sealing the plastic seams with some moisture resistant tape. Others stuff the stage (and their risers for that matter) with insulation. That is not as effective as the sand but it is an alternative. You could then also use three layers of OSB with Green Glue between the layers as an added benefit.

Good luck!

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post #16 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balinton View Post

@iamjason i originally was planning a on wall fixed screen but saw Craig John's screen and actually like it better for my speaker placement and audio listening as well. The wall that my screen is going to be on and the depth of the room makes it slightly limiting so i believe i will be happy with this setup. i will have my projector this week so i am going to play around with screen sizes etc. to get a final verdict before i place the order for the screen.

Curious is there a reason not to get a retractable screen?

unless there is something behind it to see - for example if it was not a dedicated room and you had an lcd tv for normal viewing then wanted the big screen only when it was movie time. otherwise in a dedicated theater i would prefer to have it always there ready to roll
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post #17 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balinton View Post

I do have a question for the stage i see sand is a popular material to fill with but is there any other material that anyone recommends for the stage? i would highly prefer to not lug tons of sand down into my basement and although my basement seems rather dry i would want to consider something that could possibly get moisture in it incase the unforeseen happens so i have less of a mess to cleanup if that makes sense...

You lost me at I would prefer not..................................

Those building on second floors usually fill it with insulation, Then use at least three layers of decking material (OSB or Plywood) with Green Glue between layers. That will help reduce the stage's tendency to rumble. And the stage should not touch the walls. Now I see RTROSE made the same suggestions so this is a +1

Back to the screen. I want my screens to be nice and tight hung on a acoustically transparent false wall completely hiding all the speakers for a clean uncluttered front end design. Keeping fingers off the speakers is just as important as fingers off the screen. Many guys lock their theater rooms when they are away if the house is full of young ones.
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post #18 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balinton View Post

Hi Big,

Retractable primarily so i can have it up away from my child when i am not home incase he is downstairs and additionally it will be an acoustically transparent screen but i would like it up for pure audio listening when i am not watching movies.

Are you planning two EQ curves? One for the screen down, and one for with it up? Are you sure you can tell the difference when properly EQ'ed? It could be a lot of trouble for little benefit in the end. Now, if you just like looking at your speakers, that's a different story all together!

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post #19 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

You lost me at I would prefer not..................................

Those building on second floors usually fill it with insulation, Then use at least three layers of decking material (OSB or Plywood) with Green Glue between layers. That will help reduce the stage's tendency to rumble. And the stage should not touch the walls. Now I see RTROSE made the same suggestions so this is a +1

Back to the screen. I want my screens to be nice and tight hung on a acoustically transparent false wall completely hiding all the speakers for a clean uncluttered front end design. Keeping fingers off the speakers is just as important as fingers off the screen. Many guys lock their theater rooms when they are away if the house is full of young ones.

yea i think i was just not properly informed but RTTOSE made the sand make more sense by using the heavy duty plastic... i didn't realize that the stage shouldn't be against the wall i was going to nail it into the sides and the back of the wall to secure it tightly. i was looking at threads and they all appeared to be touching the walls. What are the proper recommendations for stage building? i can easily modify it so that it doesn't touch. Thank you for catching that by the way!

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post #20 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thread has officially been renamed due to its lack luster name... smile.gif
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post #21 of 60 Old 08-19-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Are you planning two EQ curves? One for the screen down, and one for with it up? Are you sure you can tell the difference when properly EQ'ed? It could be a lot of trouble for little benefit in the end. Now, if you just like looking at your speakers, that's a different story all together!

No nothing special yet im flying by the seat of my pants like a noob... frown.gif

i would think that a retractable screen would be easier but you are stating that it might be more work could you educate me on that? i do see that there is a price difference in my favor for a fixed screen which is nice. so i guess i would have to build out a false wall like Big mentioned.

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post #22 of 60 Old 08-20-2013, 05:40 AM
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Hi Brandon,

If you're thinking of a false wall with a fixed screen, we should take a visit to York, PA to "pepar's" theater. He has this setup. You can take a look at his theater here: http://peparsplace.com/ The construct of his False Wall is linked on that page. It is a nice way to go. The one downside is that you need to build some access point(s) into the false wall so you can get at your speakers. The other downside is that it makes the room "appear" smaller. Your room is not large the way it is and cutting off 3 ft. of it with a false wall may make it look even smaller.

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post #23 of 60 Old 08-20-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
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No nothing special yet im flying by the seat of my pants like a noob... frown.gif

i would think that a retractable screen would be easier but you are stating that it might be more work could you educate me on that? i do see that there is a price difference in my favor for a fixed screen which is nice. so i guess i would have to build out a false wall like Big mentioned.

I was wondering if you've actually done a comparison with your speakers with an AT fabric in front of them, and without to see how much difference you can actually hear. Obviously if the fabric requires EQ, you would need to apply that every time the screen is down to get the best performance during a movie, and then re-EQ when the screen is back up. If it doesn't require EQ, and you can't hear the difference, then we're back to why use a retractable screen.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I just don't recall seeing many dedicated spaces with retractable screens. If you want one so you can gaze upon the magnificence of your speakers while they're thumping away to some Kenny G (or Skrillex, whichever is more your speed), it's all you brotha! That's a full credit answer, and it need not be discussed any further. smile.gif

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post #24 of 60 Old 08-20-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I was wondering if you've actually done a comparison with your speakers with an AT fabric in front of them, and without to see how much difference you can actually hear. Obviously if the fabric requires EQ, you would need to apply that every time the screen is down to get the best performance during a movie, and then re-EQ when the screen is back up. If it doesn't require EQ, and you can't hear the difference, then we're back to why use a retractable screen.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I just don't recall seeing many dedicated spaces with retractable screens. If you want one so you can gaze upon the magnificence of your speakers while they're thumping away to some Kenny G (or Skrillex, whichever is more your speed), it's all you brotha! That's a full credit answer, and it need not be discussed any further. smile.gif
I doubt Brandon can answer your questions, because he doesn't have a screen yet. However, I've had a retractable AT screen for about 8 years and I have done the comparison you are asking about. With a retractable screen, it's a really easy comparison to do.

There are several types of AT screens and some are more transparent than others. A perforated screen generally requires EQ. A woven screen generally does not. The screen Brandon is considering, (and the one I have), is a woven screen with about a 1.5 dB attenuation above 8 kHz.:



http://www.seymourav.com/screens.asp

There is a *slight* but noticeable difference in the sound with the screen down, in front of the speakers.





With the L/R speakers situated outside the screen borders, 2-channel music sounds the same with the screen up or down. For MC content with a center channel, there is a slight difference, but I rarely listen to MC content with the screen up anyway. There is usually video content associated with the audio, and the screen is necessary for viewing that content, (the exception being SACD's.) I run Audyssey with the screen in place, and Audyssey corrects for the slight HF rolloff on the center channel.

So, now you've seen at least one dedicated theater with a retractable screen. No need to discuss it any further. smile.gif

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post #25 of 60 Old 08-20-2013, 01:08 PM
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I'm still not clear on why you went with a retractable screen? I feel like I'm being dense, but it's not on purpose smile.gif

If we can measure the difference between the output with and without the screen in place, we should be able to compensate for it (within reason) with EQ, correct? I assume when you mentioned Audyssey corrects your center channel, then the difference with the "uncalibrated" center without the screen sounds like the "calibrated" center with the screen. Am I misunderstanding that point?

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post #26 of 60 Old 08-20-2013, 03:15 PM
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I'm still not clear on why you went with a retractable screen? I feel like I'm being dense, but it's not on purpose smile.gif

My room has been an HT for a number of years. It's been finished for quite awhile. My wife made the curtains you see and they cover the front wall acoustic treatments. At one point, I had a fixed screen mounted on the front wall. After hearing for myself the benefits of an acoustically transparent screen, and in particular the benefit of having the CC behind the screen, I decided I wanted one. Still, I didn't want to tear up my room to build a false wall, and discard all the work my wife had done making the curtains. Therefore, a retractable, acoustically transparent screen made sense.
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If we can measure the difference between the output with and without the screen in place, we should be able to compensate for it (within reason) with EQ, correct? I assume when you mentioned Audyssey corrects your center channel, then the difference with the "uncalibrated" center without the screen sounds like the "calibrated" center with the screen. Am I misunderstanding that point?
Audyssey does correct for the rolloff of the screen. Audyssey's "target curve" has a 3 dB rolloff at 20 kHz built into it. With the screen in place, the Audyssey mic "hears" the 1.5 dB rolloff of the screen and does 1.5 dB less compensation to account for it. When I raise the screen, (which I rarely do), I can hear a slight increase in "brightness" in the center channel upper treble because the screen is no longer rolling off the highs. It's not a big deal, and like I said, I rarely listen to it that way anyway.

BTW, once the lights go off, you can't even see the L/R speakers. The video image just "hangs in space" in the front of the room and the sound totally envelopes the image and the listener. An acoustically transparent screen is, IMO, the only way to go for a Home Theater. If you want to do one without building a false wall, a drop down, acoustically transparent screen fills the bill.

I have several friends with false walls, who have their AT screens built into the false wall. If Brandon wants to build a false wall, we can help him with that. If he wants to use a retractable screen, we can help him with that too.

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post #27 of 60 Old 08-23-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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ok to get back on track i am getting my projector tomorrow morning so i can make more educated decisions around the screen, seating and surround placement. As far as the sand for the stage i have no problem doing that and it makes sense now that i think about it i was just being lazy i think before... smile.gif i do have some confusion around the stage left when it comes to Bigs comment above that the stage should not be touching the walls. after reviewing a lot of threads they all appear to be touching the walls... can someone explain further for me as to how this should be setup? i am guessing that the stage should not be touching the walls so the vibrations don't rattle through the rest of the house. if that is the case is there a recommended distance away from the walls or simply just get it close enough without it touching? also does the top layer of OSB touch the walls for a tight seal or does it need to be kept away as well? i am guessing that the finishing touches to make it look nice come from the carpet installation?

Appreciate the responses hopefully will get the stage taken care of this weekend so i can move onto the next steps... smile.gif

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post #28 of 60 Old 08-29-2013, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have recommendations for building your own custom rack? looking to build an in wall rack for my equipment. back of rack will be in a utility room with proper ventilation and access i will be simply cutting a hole in the wall framing it out with 2x4's and placing trim on the front for a built-in look. areas that i am not positive on yet are the rails and adjustable shelving. looking for some good ideas or gotchas going down this route basically looking to save money but get a nice functional result at the end.

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post #29 of 60 Old 08-29-2013, 06:00 AM
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You can buy the rails separately. That's what I did in my build. I don't have a link handy, but I'm sure google will get u there.

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post #30 of 60 Old 08-29-2013, 06:26 AM
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Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
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Here's another option that might be a little simpler. It's a 7' relay rack from Monoprice. This would get you the front rack rails, and then you'd likely need to provide some framing at the rear to support heavy equipment.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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