House of Worship, Multi Purpose room - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 08-17-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Greetings to all.
Our church will doing some new construction, we are still in the planning stages. My task is to design and equip a multi purpose room. There will be 3 types of design considerations to keep in mind.
1. P/A. Speaker using a wireless mic and doing a power point or video presentation from a laptop or flash drive.
2. Movie night and Sporting events, in surround mode.
3. Live music. This will need to accommodate a system that will be able to support a singer or two, keyboard, guitar(s) and bass.

The room will measure 54'x63'. The ceiling will be about 10' or 11' high. The ceiling/wall border will have a 1'x1' boxed border going all around. The ceiling looks to be tile, but it can be requested to be different at this point of the design.
If you draw a rectangle in front of you, make it wider than it is tall. The video screen area will be to your left. Bottom of the page in front of you will be the exterior wall with 3 or 4 windows. To your right will be a hallway halfway up the other 54' wall. The bottom section of that wall will be a storage closet and a fixed "Sound Booth". The upper section of that wall will open to a kitchen. The wall on the top, the other 63" wall will have an opening about 20' from the kitchen, going to a walkway that leads to a gym. The floor will be carpet squares. This room will seat approximately 240 people. Seating will be metal chairs with padded seats. Plastic rectangular or round tables to seat 8.

This is the equipment being considered so far.
Klipsch.
KI-362 Three way speakers for LCR. These will need to be flown or hung from the ceiling, since we will not be building a stage for this room. The L&R speakers will be on the sides of the video projection, and angled in at about 30 degrees. Should they be hung upside down and rotate the horns? The Center can be flown horizontally, or mounted on top of the sub that is going to be used. Cabling can be plugged into the wall since this is goung to be a new installation.
KPT-684 Subwoofer. This can be put in place only for live music events or movie and sporting events. Put on a couple of wheels and a handle, and roll it out of the way so it is not used as a drink holder or as a Jungle Gym. Again, considering mounting the center channel on top of this also.
KPT-8001 speakers for surrounds and rears. When signals are sent out in Mono, speech should be able to cover the entire area.

Crown.
DCi-8/600 should provide plenty of power for this room.
CTs-1200 just for the sub, with a damping factor of greater than 3000.

Oppo.
BDP-103 Blu-Ray DVD player, solid construction, dependable, flash drive capable.

Integra.
DHC-80.3 Surround PreAmp w/PC input. This might be overkill, but it will be able to control everything being considered. The output will go to the Crown amps via XLR cables.

PreSouns
Digital mixer for mics and instruments. This will go into the Integra via XLR cables.

There will be no video screen. The projection wall will be smooth and painted with a satin finish. This will not be a sealed up room, there will be lighting so people can move around as needed.
Questions.
If the L&R front speakers will be flown, how much angle do they need vertically? Do they need to be hung upside down?
Plus or minus if the Center speaker is flown above the projection area? Seating will probably be about 10' back from the viewing wall.
Is there software available to help with speaker placement and room tuning that is suggested?
Thanks for your time and comments.
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post #2 of 10 Old 08-17-2013, 01:28 PM
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My first reaction is that a space that size will need a lot more speaker output than home stereo equipment can manage - especially for live music. But maybe I'm not seeing how the space will be used clearly enough. Are you talking about defining a small area for surround sound? Do you assume that live music brings its own PA gear?
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post #3 of 10 Old 08-17-2013, 01:47 PM
 
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You did not post what your budget allotted by the church elders is, for doing this. If you want something that you will grow into, not have to change out about every three to five years, expect to spend up front $10,000.00 to $20,000.00. That includes having the Octopus cabling and panels installed, flying the speakers, good quality projectors, a Mixer board, amps, signal processing equipment remote monitors for musicians and singers, headset mic's for the minister, handheld mics for the singers, etc..

There are companies out there that do nothing but deal with church's and work with them to design quality lighting, sound, video recording setups. Suggest you look into working with a professional consulting firm on this, to design a system that will last for what you want, and not have to keep purchasing a new piece of gear, because it did not meet your expectations at the beginning. When my church upgraded the current system, and put in distributed audio & video, and installed a new system in the Youth ministry areas, they spent $15,000.00 alone on gear for all of that. That does not include the cost of having the electricians in there, or time it took to tune the systems for the individual spaces.
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post #4 of 10 Old 08-17-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The budget is 20,000., this is strictly for equipment. The budget will not include cabling and installation, that will go under the electrical budget. One of the reasons I am posting here is to find out if an "all in one" system will be possible. By putting my surround processor in mono mode, all speakers should be sending out the same signal, this should address the p/a needs. The side surrounds will start at about 30' back from the front. I was planning on placing them at the wall/ceiling height, and about every 8' apart as you move to the rear of the room.
I have checked with a couple of companies that do this for a living and the consulting fee will put us way over on budget, as will the installation. We have a group at the church that will be able to address the installation aspect.
I do have a Crown XTi from another portable system and a pair of powered JBL Monitors for the stage. The mixer is part of the budget, PreSonus 16.0.2.

These are the specs on the Klipsch LI-362
Frequency Response: 60Hz - 18kHz(+-)4dB, -10dB 42Hz
SENSITIVITY: 102dB
POWER HANDLING: 400 watts (45.1V)
MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 126dB
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms, 5.1 ohms minimum at 40Hz
TWEETER: K-792-TI-KP 1
MIDRANGE: K-52-TI 1.5
WOOFER: K-48-KP 15
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 1kHz and 6.5kHz
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: 18mm 13-ply Baltic Birch plywood
INPUT CONNECTIONS: Two NL-4 Speakon connectors wired in parallel
DIRECTIVITY: 8dB
DISPERSION ANGLE: 90(o) Horizontal x 60(o) Vertical
WEIGHT: 71 lbs. (32.23kg) Net/84 lbs. (38.14kg) Shipping
DIMENSIONS: 34.313
FINISHES: Black, White, Raw Birch
OVERLOAD PROTECTION: KLIP overload tweeter and midrange protection circuit

The Crown DCi 8/600 will put out 600 per channel into 8 ohms.
The Crown CTs 1200 will put out 1200/channel in bridged mode into 8 ohms.

Thanks,
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post #5 of 10 Old 08-17-2013, 06:57 PM
 
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You mean the KI-362, since there is no LI-362. Honest mistake, since the K & L keys are next to each other. I would keep the Surround system for say a private office for the person that does video editing. Our Worship Arts minister setup a 5.1 in his office, for when he does editing, or just when he wants to have down time to watch a movie, while waiting for something he is producing is done compiling.

The board we are using is a studio computer controlled mixer. Next time I go out there next week, I will have to get the make & model info. This will have been the church's sixth mixer that they have upgraded to, since the last one, which was a 32 channel, we outgrew. We also use a Video editing mixer during Church for controlling camera changes, and also one for up on the lift that they use while doing live edits for just that camera. Our church has also gotten lucky that those like my family have donated new equipment for use on stage, and in other areas, along with cables.

We have three DLP Projectors for worship, with one that does backdrop projection, and two LCD's, that do middle screen and back screen for stage. If you want the Worship art's minister info to touch base with him, I can send you via PM the church info, so you can get some more ideas from him.
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post #6 of 10 Old 08-20-2013, 01:18 AM
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Consumer grade equipment will not work in a room this size. There are many, many more things to consider in a church than a home theater. What's the age diversity? What does the pew/row arrangement look like? I would worry about speech and music before I worry about other events. The acoustics of a church, and it's respective sound system, can make or break it. Reverberation plays a part as well as the type of music. I would suggest reading Architectual Acoustics by Eagan before I'd even attempt this. HT and church are two different animals altogether. Ive worked on churches before and I'm currently working on my church because the sound was horrible, so I'm doing what I can.

Shawn Byrne
Erskine Group
HAA Design Certified -THX Certified Professional

Design-Video & Audio Calibration Information

The original Pro Theater Layout
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post #7 of 10 Old 08-20-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, Please understand. This is not a design for our sanctuary, it is for a multi purpose room. The Klipsch speakers are cinema grade, the Crown amps are commercial grade. I am only using the Integra PreAmp for surround sound processing. We will also have a PreSonus mixer in the system.
I was only asking for some input for room tuning software, but do feel confident that the Audyssey program in the Integra will be a great starting place. Yes, we will be using sound absorption panels and Bass traps in the corners. Just looking for suggestions as to what software has been used with other setups for room tuning.
Thanks,
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post #8 of 10 Old 08-20-2013, 10:21 AM
 
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REW would be the best to use for tuning and checking the room first, before loading the room with people, then compare after loading after people load the room. Room acoustics will change with not only how many people are in there, but also position of gear, and temp.

Now of course you do not want to make it so that the panels are too low. This is how our main worship areas look like. The first one is from 2010, the last set of photos are from 2012, after we made an expansion. The last one is before they added in some panels for sound absorption. No bass traps in any of the spaces, since the room acoustics are always changing, and they did not want to make the rooms so dead, due to they use both spaces for different things (kids worship, Sunday worship, weddings, etc..


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post #9 of 10 Old 08-20-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Greg,
Thanks for the reply and the pics. Looks like a great area and setup. We are still in the planning and budget phase, but may reach out for your Worship Arts Minister as we get closer. I also found 3 apps for iPad and some software on the JBL website. All good stuff.
Thanks so much.
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post #10 of 10 Old 08-20-2013, 11:06 AM
 
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There is now a stage in the kids area, and some other changes that have been made. If I go out there this Sunday, I will try to get more pic's, and equipment info on the main board, and Projector info on the main worship area if I can.
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