CUES AND BREWS - DEDICATED THEATER BUILD - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 09-13-2013, 03:00 PM
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I don't know if you read my other babbling, but if you did, you'd know that I am a big proponent of setting aside budget for a fully-dedicated system for these rooms. There are far too many complications and considerations for "making something work".

The ductless systems are very quiet and will do a nice job for you. You'll need to rough for one and prepare with the proper electrical circuit. I'd see if you could wind the cost into the mortgage if you still can. It will be worth every moment. Can you hear the unit in a totally quiet room? Yes. But it's one of those things that if you focus on it, you hear it...if you don't, you don't.
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post #32 of 47 Old 09-14-2013, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsmithpharmd View Post

I have a question here, HVAC guy states I must go hard duct from main line through osb fireblocking which happens to be right outside HT room. Can I use hard pipe off the main line through fireblocking into rooms shell, then flex duct or main line - hard duct - flex pipe - short hard pipe - flex pipe. Seems like a lot of joints

If you must use hard pipe to meet local code, then that's what you must do. As you proposed, have the hard pipe run from the main trunk line through the fireblocking and through the theater's soundproof shell, then transition to flex for the remaining distance within the theater room, if any. Just make sure he seals all the rigid joints with mastic and then wraps the pipe with a foil-based HVAC duct insulation wrap.
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post #33 of 47 Old 09-14-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks TMcG,

That seems doable

I have updated the drawings

HVAC

-I tried to find a way to put the air supply in front and return in rear. The room does not easily allow for this. I placed the supplies venting down from the soffits by the seats and the return is in the front left corner of the room. I am also trying to see where i could place the wall mounted mitsubishi unit (w 31.5 inches d 10.1 inches h 11.63 inches) if needed. I might get a few more HVAC guys out for opinions. Any other opinions out there for my HVAC situation? I may rough out for the ductless system in case the duct work does not get the job done.

Electrical

-Having a hard time spacing the soffit lighting (front, back, sides), even distance between lights? equal space from colomns? number per wall?

-I will also have rope or black lights in light tray. Verdict still out on star ceiling (fiber optic, Painted, none). Sorry Spaceman your theater is just too inspiring.

-4 Step lights

Riser

-Riser calcs suggest 13.5 inch riser, I think 2x12 and 2 sheets osb will get it done (it is hard to estimate head locations with only chair spec sheets). Those who used 2x12's for risers, 2x6's for steps, does it bother you that the first step is taller than second, is it even noticeable.

Thanks Jay

Here are the pics, sorry they are a little rough, my printer was giving me issues.

Top View


Left View


Right View


Front/Back View


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
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post #34 of 47 Old 09-14-2013, 05:18 PM
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Position the lights evenly around the columns. You will get funky shadow lines if they are different distances.


The ones on the back wall look good. I would just shift the ones on the side wall forward so the column is centered between the two adjacent cans.

Tim
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post #35 of 47 Old 09-14-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsmithpharmd View Post

Those who used 2x12's for risers, 2x6's for steps, does it bother you that the first step is taller than second, is it even noticeable.
There may be relevant building code in your area. I think the rule is that they shouldn't be more than about 1/2" different, and I would encourage you to make them identical. The extra effort that it would take to rip down the wood for the steps is minimal, and you'll appreciate it every time you don't trip on them in the dark. (even with step lights)

I regards to your question last week about the length of your room being twice the width - I say make the room the size you need it. Figure out the bass later (unless you want to pay an expert to model it and figure it out for you), but expect to need several subs. Depending on your requirements for low-frequency extension and output, they may not need to be large and power-hungry, but more is better - three is a practical minimum, IMO, and four is about ideal - though a thorough modeling may reveal prime solutions with more than that.

And everything looks pretty good to me - I'm subscribing to follow along with what looks guaranteed to be a well-executed build. Good luck!

Fred
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post #36 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Tim,

Thanks for the lighting advice, I was trying to avoid a light under the door way, not sure why. I reworked the spacing so its even off the columns, I think its looking a lot better.

- Jay
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post #37 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsmithpharmd View Post

Tim,

Thanks for the lighting advice, I was trying to avoid a light under the door way, not sure why. I reworked the spacing so its even off the columns, I think its looking a lot better.

- Jay

The door being flush won't be as noticeable. You could center the can on the door, then move the can on the other side of the column so it is the same distance away from the column. That may interfere with HVAC or possible eliminate some of the cans, but worth a mention.

Tim
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post #38 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I would encourage you to make them identical. The extra effort that it would take to rip down the wood for the steps is minimal

Good point, I dont know why I dont think of that its only a few boards.
Quote:
About room dimensions and multiple subs

I did go ahead and finish the framing with the original dimensions planned, so thats done. I got that same advice a lot so I figured it must be the way to go. I will wire for multiple subs/locations, although may only open the theater with two, we'll see($$$).

Thanks for signing up to the build, I'am sure I'll continue to benefit from your feedback.

Thanks again,

- Jay
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post #39 of 47 Old 09-15-2013, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

The door being flush won't be as noticeable. You could center the can on the door, then move the can on the other side of the column so it is the same distance away from the column. That may interfere with HVAC or possible eliminate some of the cans, but worth a mention.

Tim,

Just went through your build, what a room, Congrats!

I think your first idea works out a little better for the room. I shifted things slightly, the lights are equal distances from the columns and I think it will look great. If I center one in the doorway, and mirror that distance on the other side of the column, I would only be able to fit two cans on the side walls without odd spacing.
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post #40 of 47 Old 10-01-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I got some more design work done, adjusting the space for the newly planned seating (fusion tributes) gave me some extra room. I placed the columns up on the risers and squared up the steps, also changed the lighting locations. I would like to gets some opinions on how these plans compare to the originals. (a couple notes, the upper wainscoting boxes will be accoustic panels fixed on the wall, there will also be rear accoustic panels to match on back wall, but these will be hanging/removable)









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post #41 of 47 Old 10-07-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Need votes on design. I have been trying to design the acoustic treatments. The wainscoting brings challenges with treating the first reflection points. I plan to use 1" linacoustic in the upper boxes like Big and NYGF23 did in Rawlinsway. I know by convention floor to ear should be treated with absorption, in my case this is not really possible. In order to bring the treatments to ear level I had to lower the chair rail. The upper boxes will have about a 4 ft tall recess for linacoustic, similar height of floor to ear. I now have three new design options I am torn between, I would appreciate any opinions out there.

Option 1: Lower chair rail around the entire room, worried this might look a little weak around the riser, may be best option acoustically



Option 2: Chair rail higher at riser(lose 6 inches of 4 ft of absorption), with no chair rail on column to break up the difference in chair rail height, "grill" of column would be all cloth



Option 3: Same as option 2, but keep chair rail on column, only cloth on upper column, I am concerned about where the column with high chair rail meets the wall with low chair rail



Option 4: Anything better that you can think up

-Jay
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post #42 of 47 Old 10-07-2013, 03:08 PM
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post #43 of 47 Old 10-07-2013, 03:51 PM
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#2 - but I also vote for measuring not locking in a treatment scheme beforehand (I know that's a lot more work).
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post #44 of 47 Old 10-07-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback. I have to say, i decided that option 3 is out. My brother suggested a hybrid of 1 and 2, so it is between 1, 2 and the newly designed 4.

Option 4



Fred,

I understand your point of view, not finalizing treatments prior to listening to/measuring the room. I need to decide on the design of the panel boxes however. Do you suggest that I do not commit to filling them with 100% absorption, maybe wait for measurements, then decide percentage of reflection vs absorption, so i dont deaden the room? I might be able to do that. I am just now begining to learn about acoustical measurements, problems and resolutions. Your thread got me going down that path. Do you know any web sites with a continuous series of articles on acoustics(several topics to give a basic overall understanding), any books or posts you can recommend? I am having a hard time finding convenient information.

Thanks

Jay
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post #45 of 47 Old 10-07-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsmithpharmd View Post

Do you suggest that I do not commit to filling them with 100% absorption, maybe wait for measurements, then decide percentage of reflection vs absorption, so i dont deaden the room? I might be able to do that.
That's all I'm saying. My design is more flexible without columns and such, but for a classier more traditional design like where you're heading, I think this is a good approach. Chances are good that you'll end up adding absorption to most of the panels anyway, but it's good to leave the option, IMO.

I wish there were easier to follow resources for treatment, but there's not a lot like that (complete anyway). You might have missed the conversation in my thread (from this past February) about acoustic theory and reference materials. I still stand by what I wrote then, here - which includes my "reading list."
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post #46 of 47 Old 10-11-2013, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Fred,

Waiting to finalize the treatments makes perfect sense to me and thats the new plan. Thanks for the reading material. I will likely still need to plan the riser trap prior to listening and have a general plan for front and back wall. Im gonna pick up Toole's book as a starting point.
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post #47 of 47 Old 10-18-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Access to behind AT screen -

On the other side of my front screen wall is a storage room. I currently have a door framed into my front wall, the current plan is to place studs and drywall over this cavity.

Would it be smart to keep the door(or place a smaller door in a different location), so that I can access the space with ease, or should I close it in so it is easier to cover with insulation/linacoustic?

I would like some thoughts on this before I spend to much time planning either a door from the storage room or removable pannels in the screen wall.

Thanks

Jay
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