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post #1 of 39 Old 09-09-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Let the Madness Begin!

I can’t believe I’m at the point where I am actually starting my theater. I’ve been given the nod from the wife to start construction. I’ve been a long time lurker here and been planning my basement theater since before we bought our house in 2010 and a space for a future basement was one of the must haves when I was looking at houses.

The Space:
Our entire basement will be the Theater area which will include a full wet bar, half bath, utility closet, and some storage. The theater area and wet bar will be together in the main room of the basement much like Big’s or Jamis’ theaters. It is currently unfinished. The area is roughly 16’ by 31’ with 8’ ceilings and floor joist above meaning no annoying HVAC soffit but I do plan to do a light tray around the edge of the room.

I am planning on decoupling all walls and ceilings with a combination of decoupled walls and hat channel with DD and GG. Main goal would be to eliminate sound passing to the living room/dining/kitchen above. Our four bedrooms are on the top floor and are not much of a concern for sound. I want to be able to crank the tv and not bother people in the living room on the floor above.

Two rows of 4 reclining theater chairs with riser for the second row and a back bar with 4 bar stools.

Full U shape wet bar area with keg tap, mini fridge, dishwasher, TV, stereo sound, and steel tip dart board.

Equipment
130 inch 2.35 fixed screen is planned (from Monoprice or Carada)

Speakers:
Center - Klipsch RC-62 (Craigslist)
Front - Klipsch RF-82 (Craigslist)
Side Surround - Klipsch RS-42 (Craigslist)
Back Surround - Klipsch TBD (need to find yet)
Projector – Panisonic PT-AE7000U (Found this on Craigslist with 110 hours on it)
AVR – TBD
Bar AVR – TBD
Two cable boxes
Blu Ray – TBD
Monoprice 4x2 matrix splitter
Possibly a HTPC, nothing too fancy

Ipad to control AV, lighting, and drapes with iRule or roomie remote

Insteon switches throughout

Budget is $20,000

I plan to use the space for 60% tv/sports and 40% movies. I have not owned a respectable gaming system but may need to once this is complete.

I will definitely be asking for a lot of help as I have not done much construction but I plan to do most of the work myself.

I plan to hire out the plumbing, electrical, drywall finishing, and carpet install. Possibly the bar installation as well, I’m slightly lost when it comes to designing the bar.

I will do the low voltage wiring myself and set it up for future proofing.

I am not one to write a whole lot so you can expect a lot of pictures and not a lot of writing in this thread.

I’ve basically already built out my entire basement stud by stud in SketchUp, so I am hoping this will go pretty quick. I want to be done by spring of 2014, we’ll see... Our second child is due March 24, so if it is not done by then it will likely not be for a long time

Here are some pictures from SketchUp of what I plan to do:

Here is my current status:





Framing and Hat Channel will be decoupled from rest of house:


Drywall:


Finished










Here we go!
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post #2 of 39 Old 09-09-2013, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 39 Old 09-10-2013, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So I need some help on where to spend my sound proofing money. I was planning on doing the full RSIC, Hat channel, R13, DD and GG.

The question is do I really need to do all of this on the walls since I do not have any adjacent rooms that I am trying to keep sound out of? I just want to keep sound from transferring to the living room/dining/kitchen above.

I will do the full treatment on the ceilings, that is a no-brainer...

I have two different types of walls in my basement, load bearing that are already there and decoupled ones that I will be putting up using IB3 clips and the only concern is flanking noise getting to the rooms above.

Obviously doing everything would be best but I am looking for ways to keep my budget in check, any suggestions?
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post #5 of 39 Old 09-12-2013, 05:38 AM
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I'd Decouple all 4 walls via the double wall method you have illustrated. That wall in front of the stairwell- can you count that as an "outer wall" and build an "inner wall" in front of that? Stairwells are awful for conduction.

Simple fiberglass insulation. R13 in walls, R19 in ceiling. Paper-faced is convenient.

2-3 layers of standard 5/8" drywall. Not the newer ultra-light or pre-damped drywall.

You can decouple the ceiling with another set of independent (floating) joists or do as most do and use clips and channels on the ceiling.

You'll want formidable doors.

What are you doing for ventilation?

Do you have plans for ceiling can (recessed) lighting?

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post #6 of 39 Old 09-12-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted. It is truly an honor to have your help on this! I've heard all of the great talk about your company, it's hard to find many companies these days with the reputation of yours.
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I'd decouple all 4 walls via the double wall method you have illustrated. That wall in front of the stairwell- can you count that as an "outer wall" and build an "inner wall" in front of that? Stairwells are awful for conduction. ?

I was afraid the stairs would be a hassle. I am planning on building a closet in the hallway across from the bathroom as shown in the first picture of the "Finished" ones shown in my first post (it was an afterthought when I realized I had zero storage in my house). Every wall I put up from here on out I plan to use IB-3 to decouple from the rest of the house so the whole closet wall that continues into the theater would be decoupled. If the only door I have to the rest of the house is at the top of the stairs will I need to decouple all of the walls going up the stairwell with RSIC clips and Hat Channel, DD+GG? I'm nervous I would be narrowing my stairwell too much if I did that, could I get away with just DD+GG going up the stairs and forget the RSIC and Hat Channel or would that be a bad idea?
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Finished
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Simple fiberglass insulation. R13 in walls, R19 in ceiling. Paper-faced is convenient.

Yes, I've got that planned.
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2-3 layers of standard 5/8" drywall. Not the newer ultra-light or pre-damped drywall.

Yes, planning 5/8 DD + GG. Still kicking around the idea of doing OSB instead of the first layer of drywall on the ceiling and maybe the walls in the main room that have hat channel to make it easier to mount the light tray and projector I am planning. (Light tray would be installed after the room is sealed). Is OSB better, worse, or about the same as 5/8 drywall?

There is one wall in the bathroom that is load bearing, the rest will be decoupled. It's the wall that is shared with the main room. Would I need to do RSIC + Hat Channel on that wall if the door will be normally open except for when in use?
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You can decouple the ceiling with another set of independent (floating) joists or do as most do and use clips and channels on the ceiling.

You'll want formidable doors.

Planning clips and channel on the ceiling. The ceiling is made of floor trusses. I'm still kicking round the idea of doing recessed bracing to save an inch or so on the ceiling height.

I am planning solid wood doors for the 6 doors in the basement. They include a pocket door between the bathroom and utilities, bathroom door, double door closet, under stairs storage door, and entrance door located at the top of the stars.
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What are you doing for ventilation?

This is where I am lost; I've read all of the info on thesoundproovingcompany's website many times and researched forums but am still lost. Is the idea to have basically a sound proof box to extend the distance from the vent in the room to allow the sound to dissipate before it reaches the supply or return vent? Do you still tie in with the normal HVAC Supply and return? I believe I remember seeing examples where people just do air exchanges with an adjacent room. Is a Fantech fan just for air exchange or is it used when connecting to a HVAC system as well?

Correct me if I am wrong... I need a long run of 6" flex duct that snakes back and forth through a massive and damped soffit that then connects to another massive and damped soffit that contains a 6" to 12" transition followed by a straight run of 12" flex duct followed by a 12" to 6" transition before connecting to a HVAC supply or return? Can these both be in the same massive and damped area and how long does each need to be? So If I need two supplies and 2 returns in my room I would need 4 dead vents plus I would probably want a vent in my bathroom so that would be a fifth? I sure hope I’m missing something here, that seems like a lot of work. Any HVAC experts here that would be able to easily tell how many supply /returns I would need in my 16' x 31' x 8' room?
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Do you have plans for ceiling can (recessed) lighting?

Yes, I am planning 6 pot lights with proper backer boxes. Might switch these to smaller halogen lights, not sure yet.
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post #7 of 39 Old 09-12-2013, 09:38 AM
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Thank you for your kind words.

The stairwell framing itself is an issue, as the drywall is a big receiver of all airborne vibrations. The door at the top doesn't address this. If you can't get a complete wall in front of the stairwell, can you put a door in that hallway and decouple the drywall on that stairwell wall with clips? Same goes for that bathroom wall, unless you can get a second wall in front of it, and put the exit door in that second wall. Eliminates some of the stairwell problem.

OSB is slightly less dense than drywall, so technically speaking drywall is better. Having said that, I'd personally do the OSB every time. Much too easy later to hang / attach stuff

You can use a soffit for a muffler. 15' length is a good goal. You can also consider a Joist Muffler or a Dead Vent. They are all essentially a variation on the same theme. I can send you some articles to your email

Smaller diameter can lights = better isolation / less need for a backer box

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post #8 of 39 Old 09-20-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for advice or feedback on a rack. I have an opportunity to buy a Sanus 44U CFR144 AV rack for $400. Comes with shelves and is brand new. Any one have experience with this brand or rack?

http://www.sanus.com/ca/en/products/av-racks/av-component/CFR144#

My budget won't allow for a MA rack with all the shelves so I had planned a DIY rack until this came across my plate.
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post #9 of 39 Old 09-20-2013, 02:07 PM
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you have a patience with sketchup that I could never muster...
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post #10 of 39 Old 09-20-2013, 04:49 PM
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Windsor Ontario?

Denon AVR-3311, Sherbourn 7-350, Fusion Tempest (LCR), Fusion Alchemy (4xSurrounds),15" Dayton Ultimax X 4, SMX 2.35:1 Screen
Theater Build
DIY Speaker / Sub Build
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post #11 of 39 Old 09-20-2013, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post

you have a patience with sketchup that I could never muster...

Thanks, that's what happens when you can't start construction for thee years while your saving. You get to do a lot of thinking and analyzing.

...understanding what a 'unique component' is goes a long way
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post #12 of 39 Old 09-20-2013, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Windsor Ontario?

The name comes from the street we live on, not too original... I know... I'm not to creative.
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post #13 of 39 Old 09-21-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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...understanding what a 'unique component' is goes a long way

I've heard that a lot and I still can't seem to get it smile.gif

I ended up mocking mine up in sweethome 3d because it was more or less idiot proof.
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post #14 of 39 Old 10-11-2013, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a general construction question that I cannot find the answer to... looking for help!

I have a small portion of concrete wall toward the bottom of my stairs that I am struggling on how to finish. If I were to build a typical stud wall in front of it it would impede into my stairwell awkwardly far. What options do I have to finish this off to make it a finished dry walled wall?

Here was my solution but I cannot determine if this would pass typical code. I would nail and/or glue treated OSB to the wall then have a layer of Green Glue and then 5/8" drywall. The construction would be like this:

Below grade concrete block wall - 3/4" treated OSB - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall - Stairwell

The drywall would only be able to be screwed into the OSB. I have no need to be able to run electrical or anything through the wall.

In the picture it is the wall on the right side at the bottom of the stairs.



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post #15 of 39 Old 10-28-2013, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I wont be spending much time giving long written updates as I go, I will be mostly doing a pictorial of my build. I was always one to prefer picture books anyways smile.gif

Might have slightly overloaded my truck but I wanted to get it all in one trip. 160 2x4, 21 treated 2x4, 20 hat channels


I was having a little fun throwing wood down into the basement.





...and we are ready to start putting up walls.


Also Picked up this lil beaut this past weekend. Found it on CL for cheap with 110 hours on it. Hopefully I can keep it in the box a little longer yet.
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post #16 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick gut check...

I'm thinking about picking up a Denon AVR-2113CI to run my theater set up. Looking for confirmation that it would be a good choice to pair with my speakers. The AVR-2113CI has 95w per channel. Please let me know if this is a good idea or I should get something else. Most concerned with if it is powerful enough for my speakers...

Speakers:
Klipsch RF-82 Front
Klipsch RC-62 Center
Klipsch RS-42 Side Surround
Klipsch RS-400 Back Surround

Important AVR featers to me
7.1 (not planning on going to 9.1 or 11.1 anytime soon, if ever)
3D (Since my projector can do 3D I might as well plan for a receiver that can also)
Internet controllable via 3rd party apps (Irule, roomie remote)
Spotify built in
Audyssey set up (or similar)

Scheduled to pick it up this Friday.
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post #17 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 08:53 AM
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In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Denon, and I considered the 2113CI until I found a sweet deal on an Integra DTR30.4.

The only danger might be buying equipment before your room is complete. I can tell you from experience that the room will take a lot longer than whatever you initially estimated! I've been holding off on getting a screen and pj, just in case technology changes while I am still under construction.

Still, if you come across a great deal on something, you will be kicking yourself if you pass it up...so I would only grab the Denon now if you're looking at that kind of deal.

As far as the receiver being able to drive your speakers, the mains have a sensitivity of 98dB, so the receiver should have no problem with them. I don't usually worry too much about the rest of speakers' sensitivities, but maybe someone more audio-engineeringly inclined than me can weigh in. Bottom line is I think the Denon paired with the Klipschs should be just fine.

-Schlemstar
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post #18 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Denon, and I considered the 2113CI until I found a sweet deal on an Integra DTR30.4.

The only danger might be buying equipment before your room is complete. I can tell you from experience that the room will take a lot longer than whatever you initially estimated! I've been holding off on getting a screen and pj, just in case technology changes while I am still under construction.

Still, if you come across a great deal on something, you will be kicking yourself if you pass it up...so I would only grab the Denon now if you're looking at that kind of deal.

As far as the receiver being able to drive your speakers, the mains have a sensitivity of 98dB, so the receiver should have no problem with them. I don't usually worry too much about the rest of speakers' sensitivities, but maybe someone more audio-engineeringly inclined than me can weigh in. Bottom line is I think the Denon paired with the Klipschs should be just fine.

-Schlemstar

Awesome, thanks Schlemstar! Just the reassurance I was looking for. So far I am only buying items I find on CL at huge savings over buying new. It's the only way my wallet can agree with my taste wink.gif I've found some awesome deals. Seems to not be me much demand out there for last year's models of the higher end (to most people) equipment. The WAF also plays a big part of this. I already struggle with her understanding what I am spending on these items. I could imagine the conversation if I wanted to buy new... Me: PLEASE!!! Her: eek.gifmad.gifeek.gifmad.gif
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post #19 of 39 Old 11-14-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Stud walls are up. Here are some pictures for your pleasure... All walls are at least .5" from any existing wall and 1 inch from the ceiling.

Sorry for the mess, it's a work in progress smile.gif





Halway leading into theater:




Bathroom:
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post #20 of 39 Old 11-14-2013, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a poor man's version of a DC-04 clip. Not perfect, but I think it will do the job.

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post #21 of 39 Old 11-14-2013, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I know I am probably going to get some flack for this... But here is my attempt at a sound proof restricting pocket door tongue.gif

Started with a standard pocket door and two sheets of 3/4" Plywood:


Place bead of acoustical sealant around the edges:


Add cut to size plywood


Seal up all seams:


Ta-da...


This thing got extreemly heavy. It was dificult to move around.

I'm considering adding a layer of drywall to both sides with GG.

This is going into a decoupled wall at the entrance to the theater and will be the first line of defense from sound getting to the rest of the house. There will be a second door at the top of the stairs.

Here is the door in place:
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-14-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Needed to cut a trench in the cement to run power to the center of my room for the riser. This was a much bigger task than I expected. Just used a circular saw and a half dozen cement saws. Chipped out the cement with a large screw drive and hammer.







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post #23 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
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Here is a poor man's version of a DC-04 clip. Not perfect, but I think it will do the job.


I am no expert and am years away from my build, but in reading many build threads here on the site I have to say this won't work to de-couple the new wall from the old framing. The bracket you have installed is the same as screwing or nailing the two pieces of wood together.

You should replace that with it with an IB-3 type bracket as found here.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-clips/ib-3-clip/

Good luck on your build.

Pete
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-20-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I am no expert and am years away from my build, but in reading many build threads here on the site I have to say this won't work to de-couple the new wall from the old framing. The bracket you have installed is the same as screwing or nailing the two pieces of wood together.

You should replace that with it with an IB-3 type bracket as found here.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-clips/ib-3-clip/

Good luck on your build.

Pete

Thanks Pete but I think I disagree with your analysis. If the two pieces of wood that I am connected to were touching each other then I would agree that sound would travel from one piece of wood directly to the other piece of wood but since there is a 1" gap the sound has to travel from the wood through the metal bracket and back into the wood. This has to be better than sound being able to travel from one piece of wood directly into another piece of wood. Also I have greatly reduced the contact points. Instead of having a 3.5" x 3.5" wood surfce to wood surface connection every 2' I now have a 1/8" x 1.5" metal connection every 4-6' appart. The only thing I am missing from the DC-04 or IB-3 clip is the rubber washer and at $4 less per bracket it was worth the savings to me to possibly have a little more sound transfer.
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post #25 of 39 Old 02-14-2014, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Drywall Finishing Question: What did you do for drywall finishing?

I've started thinking about drywall finishing, I'm planning on hanging the drywall myself (so that the soundproofing does not get messed up) and hiring someone to do the tape/mud/sand and finishing. I've called a few places and asked them if they can do a smooth surface for walls and ceiling. After a short pause (I'm sure if we were face to face they would have a blank look on their face) they ask, "do you mean a knockdown texture?"

No one seems to know what I'm talking about. Most of the theaters I see on here look to have very smooth painted walls and ceiling. What is this called and what do I need to tell the drywall'ers when I call them so they understand what I am looking for?
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post #26 of 39 Old 02-14-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
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Drywall Finishing Question: What did you do for drywall finishing?

I've started thinking about drywall finishing, I'm planning on hanging the drywall myself (so that the soundproofing does not get messed up) and hiring someone to do the tape/mud/sand and finishing. I've called a few places and asked them if they can do a smooth surface for walls and ceiling. After a short pause (I'm sure if we were face to face they would have a blank look on their face) they ask, "do you mean a knockdown texture?"

No one seems to know what I'm talking about. Most of the theaters I see on here look to have very smooth painted walls and ceiling. What is this called and what do I need to tell the drywall'ers when I call them so they understand what I am looking for?

You could look for a plasterer ( that will be more expensive but the walls come out super smooth and it's a 1 day (2 possibly) job.. A good mud/tape job will be just as nice..

i have a budget bigger than my budget.

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post #27 of 39 Old 02-14-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so I did a little more research and it sounds like I want to request a "Level 4" or "Level 5 Smooth finish."

Level 5 sounds much more labor intensive (and more $$$) and I am on a tight budget.

Does anyone have recommendations or experience with Level 4 smooth in their basement? Would you have rather done a level 5?
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post #28 of 39 Old 03-02-2014, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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What is a good distance away from a screen to mount ceiling lights to get a good screen wash?

I'm using 3" Halogen recessed with 50W GU10 bulb.
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post #29 of 39 Old 03-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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10 inches, I assume they have the baffles you can aim at the screen.
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post #30 of 39 Old 03-04-2014, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I am about to the point where I need to buy LV wiring. I went to Monoprice to check their long run HDMI cables and got super confused. Can anyone suggest the type I want for 20-30 foot runs? I already have a Panasonic PT-AE7000U projector and Denon AVR so I need it to do 3D and it will be going in wall.

There are just so many options I dont understand... Redmere? Ethernet? High Speed/standard? Ferrite Cores? Ultra Slim? What AWG I need? CL2?
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