128" 2.35:1 Theater Project w/3 week Time Limit. "Warp Factor 9.5 -Engage..." - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 75 Old 09-21-2013, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting Started on a Fast Track to build and complete a dedicated Theater in at/under 4 weeks time frame

This dedicated Theater for this year's Memphis VESTA Home Show...and you can be sure I'm glad not to have to deal with a inappropriate and non-dedicated Room with a Window behind the screen like I did last year!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432177/painting-onto-a-106-tab-tensioned-screen-with-silver-fire-v2-5-4-0
(....in fact...the Wall I just framed up covers the only window... biggrin.gif )

I'm designing this room to be a very affordable Theater, one that can easily be installed in most any "Bonus Room"...and feature amenities that are normally only present in Theaters that cost at minimum 2x or more the cost of this one. I'm all about creating Theaters for the "Every Man" out there who has big dreams and a miniscule budget.

I hope this expose' will give others similar goad to try such projects, and it is my intent to show how easily and affordable it can be done.

Features to include:
  • 128" Diagonal 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Screen, Spray painted onto Drywall w/ Silver Fire v2.5 3.0
  • Two level Seating (8" Tall Platform)
  • 4 Directional "Wall Wash" Cans w/Spot Lamps
  • Ultra Dark Slate Gray Ceiling (Central Tray & Sloped) and closely matching color Carpet
  • Blood Orchid Deep Red (Flat) Knee Walls, Screen Wall and Rear Wall
  • 8 SeatCraft Sienna Motorized Theater Chairs (Black Leather) w/LED Accent Lighting and Lighted Cup Holders
  • Onkyo TX-NR 818 7.2 Receiver - configured to drive into a 7.4 system
  • 2- Lava 12" Powered Sub Woofers recessed into each corner of Screen Wall
  • 7 Channel Speaker system featuring 18 HAS #801 Audio Transducers. 4 ea. @ Left / Center / Right - 2 ea. @ Left / Right Surround - 1 ea. @ Left / Right Center Rear
  • Oppo BDP-103 DVD
  • Panasonic AE-8000U LCD Projector w/Lens Memory
  • Darby Doublet
  • 4 Clark Synthesis TST209 Tactile Transducers (2 under Floor of the Front Seating - 2 under Platform)
  • AudioSource Amp-310 Amplifier for Tactiles
  • Harmony 900 Remote

As some will make note, the choice of Equipment is modest...but I have found that if judicious choices are made and the system as a whole is properly balanced with the Room's design and potential, a great deal of value-to-performance can be had.

As of yesterday's start, I have gotten the Screen Wall Framing accomplished. Today I will be installing the Left / Center / Right Transducers and stuffing the Screen wall with R-19 Insulation in preparation for Drywall hanging on Monday. I expect to paint the screen before next Thursday, have the balance of the Room Painted out by a week from this coming Monday, Trimmed out the following Wednesday, and Carpet Installed the following Monday. Ambitious scheduling though it may seem, it's nothing that hasn't been done before when dealing with all to often uber-tight time schedules.

AVESTA2013TheaterbeforeFraming_zpsea66593f.jpg

AVESTA2013TheaterinFraming_zps42f05ae5.jpg

AVESTA2013TheaterFramed_zpsca2e8ba4.jpg

AVESTA2013TheaterLayout_zpsebb1b7c5.jpg

AVESTA2013TheaterBirdsEyeLayout_zps9ac29805.jpg

That's about all I have to offer as of today, but more will certainly follow in short order.

I welcome any all questions, comments, suggestions, (criticisms eek.gif ) and requests for help / advice on other Member's systems
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post #2 of 75 Old 09-21-2013, 06:47 AM
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post #3 of 75 Old 09-23-2013, 03:30 AM - Thread Starter
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As of yesterday Afternoon......:


Right....Center....Left Channels have been wired, and the Audio Transducers assembled and installed.






Two Layers of R-19 Craft Faced Batts applied in the 6" Gap between the Exterior Wall And the Front Partition Wall.




Clark Tactile Transducers are installed in both the Flooring under the Front Row (2) and the Riser Platform (2) Both Fllor and Platform are completely filled with Blown-In Cellulose Insulation.




Baseboard Trim was being installed as of 1pm Yesterday Afternoon excepting on the Front Wall. Drywall goes "UP" onto the Front Wall today...or tomorrow at the latest. DIY Screen Layout and spraying to happen on Thursday at latest...Photos and Videos of which are to be included....with Room Painting to follow on the next Monday. The finial selection of the Room's Wall Color /Carpet is ongoing, and is somewhat dependent upon the availability of the Carpet in the desired color. Time restrictions preclude the ability to custom order such, so the choice may well be limited to available stock alread present locally, or in the least, already milled.

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post #4 of 75 Old 09-23-2013, 06:49 AM
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Looking forward for updates.

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post #5 of 75 Old 09-23-2013, 07:13 AM
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Looks interesting smile.gif

Just wondering if either acoustic treatments or soundproofing are part of the project?
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post #6 of 75 Old 09-24-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Looks interesting smile.gif

Just wondering if either acoustic treatments or soundproofing are part of the project?

All Walls "AND" Ceilings are solidly packed with Pressure Blown Cellulose Insulation (...goes in Wet, dries into a compact dense layer....) except the Partion Wall up front and as stated, that is packed with dual layer of R-19 Kraft Faced Fiberglas.

So adverse non-harmonic resonance should be effectively held to non-issue levels.

Using Transducers, their specific attribute is that they generate concentric dispersing wave forms of every frequency, radiating out from the epicenter 360 degrees, and in doing so also create a 180 degree hemispherical "half-Globe" of omni-directional sound off the chosen surface.

The very act of exciting the molecular structure of the chosen material, and especially the room-side surface of same, also delivers the benefit of "masking"...or refracting incoming standing wave forms. Transducers are used extensively in Private, Government, and Military circles for security sound masking applications, and as sound masking for unwanted intruding vibrations from elctro-mechanical sources.

In other words, a active battery of Transducers under power effectively squashes, or in the least greatly reduces the chance that a standing waveform of any pressure level will adversely impart a non-harmonic resonance into a surface so equipped.

Installed in rooms where acoustics are deemed terrible, they can produce a pretty darn Flat response across the entire frequency spectrum. Now that is not to say they are perfect, nor that they work miracles for all applications and every instance. However........overall....when properly designed and installed, they often accomplish something akin to a miracle by eliminating the need for a gross effort and expenditure for acoustical teatments.

One can overview the results had by Cowger http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313580/my-mahogany-invisible-speaker-build ....and RedTopDown http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294183/reel-time-build-log-14-scope-9-7-17-000w-transducer-audio-dedicated-stadium-room ....both of whom have very "Live Rooms" consiting of either Wood Paneled Walls or considerable expanses of Drywall. RTD's room is "very deep" and sports 4 very powerful subs, yet so far...to my knowledge, the use of Bass Traps has been totally avoided. (...this can be partially attributed to effective blending of 3 levels of Tactile Transducers whose augmentation of the LFE effects allows the Subs to work at lower db levels than otherwise would be needed / expected...)

But together....the end result is a "PHAT" bass wave evenly saturating the room, and held in check by active masking on the rooms surfaces.

Audio Transducers have always been an application that many "learned" Audio enthusiasts have had a lot of difficulty accepting...or really even understanding since the application is so far removed from their accepted norms. and truthfully, to even have such aspire to be close to "critical listening quality", considerable care must be given toward system design and installation, just like any other decent Audio setup.

But then again, for the "Everyman", the end results of installing $1800 to $2800.00 of Transducers and matching it up with a capable A/V Receiver or Amplifier-Pre-Amp can exceed the imagination and all expectations they ever have envisioned possible. Especially considering it's the room / structure that is producing 90% of all the sound heard.

Too Whit....the best comparison I can between a well designed Audio Transducer system and any conventional Audio system would be that someone managed to install 7 or 9 large Dahlquist Electrostatic Panels.

I hope that helps......and I also hope the scraping sound I think I hear is not the sound of Audiophile Knives being sharpened. eek.gif.

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post #7 of 75 Old 09-25-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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On a continued note......,

When dealing with "Over Garage Bonus Rooms" with sloped ceilings, acoustics are always an issue with convention directional speakers.
Most such rooms are on a long axis, and more narrow than the one referenced in this thread, and the dearth of available vertical wall space disallows effective installation of Acoustic Dampening Panels at the height needs to work effectively. The rear wall can, and almost always does act like a veritable "Trampoline" ....bouncing directional sound back down what is best described as a "Tunnel" toward the front, and creating cancellation issues and unwanted harmonics. (...but in this case, the location of the Center Rear Transducers on either side of the Double Doors effectively negates that concern...)

This often results in an owner "settling" for substandard equipment / design, and therein substandard results. IE: Gross limitations on Volume and precise imagery of surround effects, as well as any appreciable definition between the Left - Center - Right sound stage.

Unfortunately, there exists a great many people who posses such rooms, and who are limited to considering them only for a dedicated Theater environment. With all that considered, any speaker system that can produce large, evenly dispersed non-directional sound can create a seamless surround stage under even such adverse conditions.

Next up.....screen painting !

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post #8 of 75 Old 09-25-2013, 10:21 AM
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Don't forget WE like pictures! wink.gif

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post #9 of 75 Old 09-26-2013, 02:09 PM
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MM- I'm subscribed, more picts/updates please!!

btw, your sig "To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"", you need to ammend that to be TOS JTK....as the new timeline JTK so far has not uttered that phrase
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post #10 of 75 Old 09-26-2013, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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More are coming....I've been sidetracked by waiting for my 54" Drywall to arrive, and also my 5th Grandchild...who BTW JUST arrived 1 hour ago in Denver, 8 lbs - 21" Redhead. eek.gifbiggrin.gifcool.gif

I have a full plate to dine on before I jet into "D" town next Thursday to hold the big Bugger. I want the screen painted by Tuesday, so I'm hoping the Drywall goes up tomorrow.

All the A/V Gear arrived today except the Panny 8K, but I expect that here by Monday...and I will absolutely have some shots of it in action "in the raw".
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post #11 of 75 Old 10-01-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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A image showing the "Screen Wall" work accomplished so far:



Airless Sprayer.



The wall is receiving a coating of "First Coat" as I type this....that is a thin slurry of Drywall Compound and Primer applied with a Commercial-type Airless Sprayer.

Afterward, a sanding...and another normal Primer Coat...and this evening or Tomorrow morning...Screen painting takes off.

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post #12 of 75 Old 10-02-2013, 02:39 AM
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Minor point but are you making the screen 2.35:1 or 2.39:1? 117/50 = 2.34
When making my 130" scope screen I originally planned 2.37:1 (16/9 * 4/3 for a-lens expansion), but during assy some tweaking showed it at 2.35:1.
Slight over scan into black velvet border and nobody knows or sees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)#Previous_and_currently_used_aspect_ratios
Quote:
2.35:1: 35 mm anamorphic prior to 1970, used by CinemaScope ("'Scope") and early Panavision. The anamorphic standard has subtly changed so that modern anamorphic productions are actually 2.39,[1] but often referred to as 2.35 anyway, due to old convention. (Note that anamorphic refers to the compression of the image on film to maximize an area slightly taller than standard 4-perf Academy aperture, but presents the widest of aspect ratios.) All Indian Bollywood films released after 1972 are shot in this standard for theatrical exhibition.
2.37:1 (64:27 = 43:33): As of 2010, TVs have been introduced with this aspect ratio and are marketed as "21:9 cinema displays", the first of which was the Philips Cinema 21:9 TV. HDMI 2.0 offers support for the 21:9 aspect ratio.[6]
2.39:1 (~12:5): 35 mm anamorphic from 1970 onwards. Aspect ratio of current anamorphic (wide-screen) theatrical viewings. Often commercially branded as Panavision format or 'Scope. Specified as 2.40:1 for Blu-ray Disc film releases (1920×800 resolution).
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post #13 of 75 Old 10-02-2013, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Well....good point of order that. As my Thread Title indicates, I have been, and was formatting the screen for 2.35:1. That is the configuration I have used for all the C.I.H. applications I have done over the last year or so.

But the above reference, as well as the printed designation on most all BD-DVDs (...you often have to peer intently to find it...) does state the 2.40:1 standard. Curiously though...as stated above, that's a "rounded up" figure from 2.39:1

So far, the degree of additional zoom / over scan I have had to use has been minimal. HOWEVER.....what with the repeated use of 2400 lumen & up displays, I have noted that the light spillage onto the Black Velvet Trim has started to become more apparent. One might conjecture that if 2.39:1 is the Del-facto standard, that using it should eliminate such over spill concerns.

In doing comparisons between 2.35:1 & 2.39:1 , a 140" diagonal 2.39:1 screen measures 54" x 129" while a 2.35:1 screen clocks in at 55" x 129".

That's a whoppin' 1' total difference in height, (...1/2" split between top and bottom edges...) That's not too troublesome....but where do we draw the line at perfection?

When one can specifically dictate the exact size of their screen, down to a millimeter, what side of the proverbial fence should they come down on?


I hate you. mad.gif

biggrin.gifwink.gif

In any case, I have decided to squeeze as much size out of my available space as possible, so my stated screen size of 128" diagonal is going to rise to at least 135" at the least.

I'm leaving for Denver today (...now that the craziness is over...) to see my 6 Day Old Grandson. (...got 5 of 'em & counting... eek.gif ) The Builder has graciously placed all wall / ceiling painting of the Theater on hold until next Wednesday so I can come in and spray the screen without having to mask off the entire front end of the room.

So further progress will be forestalled until Mid-week. Carpet has been chosen as has the Ceiling / Wall colors. All my A/V equipment is in...I plan to temporarily hang the PJ to precisely plot my screen's location and size prior to painting.

You can probably expect at least one photo of the budding A/V Enthusiast to show up. Sue me.
That's it.....

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post #14 of 75 Old 10-02-2013, 06:10 AM
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Enjoy the family, catch you next week.

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post #15 of 75 Old 10-10-2013, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok...I'm back from my "Grandson Reveal" and looking forward to some definite progress between now and next Tuesday

  1. Temporarily hang the Panny 8000 and plot out the maximum Screen size and position
  2. Tape off the chosen screen perimeter and sand down the dual-primed surface to a ultra smooth state
  3. Apply at least 3 initial coats of Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 before the clock strikes Midnight
  4. Determine "pass-thru" routing for 2 - 10 meter RGB LED Lighting Strips to be installed at the Knee Wall, Slope Ceiling junction


I have a quick snapshot below of my chosen Theater Chair, Carpet, Wall & Ceiling Colors. The need to have at least some flow-through continuity with the earth-toned Rec Room
adjacent to the Home Theater dictated the choices made.





.............and, just because I'm a Glutton for self-flagellation through excessive work load, I have made arrangements to receive a spool of 1mm Fiber Optic Cable so that I can rush and install a 8' x 8' 300+ "Points of Light" Star Field w/2 Shooting Stars <50 additional "POL"> (...see Template layout below...)




I gotta lotta bending over in an attic to deal with next Monday!eek.gif

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post #16 of 75 Old 10-10-2013, 08:29 AM
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Star field, sweet!
Seeing you post has made me think to apply star field to bottom of me ceiling acoustic clouds, a winter project.
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post #17 of 75 Old 10-12-2013, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Fiber Optic Line Installation on Tuesday

RGB Lighting on Order....due on Wednesday.

I had to take a week off to go see my new Grandson......but, Screen Painting Tomorrow !


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post #18 of 75 Old 10-12-2013, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh Pee-shaw! mad.gif

Went by today to tape off the Screen perimeter, and mask the adjoining areas....................,





.............only to find under 500 watts of illumination and close scrutiny a poorly filled and sanded "Joint"....................,




..soooooo......, out came the 20 Minute Quick Set Mud.............,



And so another case in point as to why a careful "pre - paint" look under bright light is essential in determining as to if there are imperfection on the wall that will jump out and bite'cha once you start applying a High Contrast / High Gain coating.

So tomorrow I start painting the screen.................... rolleyes.gif

Post Script:
I did manage to install the Power ventilation for the A/V Cabinet.

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post #19 of 75 Old 10-13-2013, 05:31 AM
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That is for sure a BIG screen... can't wait to see the end result!!! wink.gif
Looking good MM.

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post #20 of 75 Old 10-13-2013, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

That is for sure a BIG screen... can't wait to see the end result!!! wink.gif
Looking good MM.

Thank you, Leo....,

As measured "diagonally" the final screen size is 146 " inches.

Up early today before Church to sand and prime those lil' nasties. It all looked pretty good after the 1st coat of primer, but I am returning about 90 minutes to put on another " assurance " coat.

FINALLY, today will see the Screen painted...or no sleep for me until that happens.
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post #21 of 75 Old 10-13-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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..........Three coats on.....looking good, but sadly, after hanging the Panny to do a screen-size check on the primer, I discovered that the PJ's Red LCD Panel was completely knocked out of alignment, resulting in a broad red smear across the bottom of the screen ( pics will follow later )



No problemo though...my Buds atPprojector People will have a new one winging toward me pronto.......

I also will have 3 Videos of the painting process, and I'm taking a Optoma TH1020 back with me so I can at least have something to splash a decent image onto the freshly painted screen.

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post #22 of 75 Old 10-14-2013, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh the horror. eek.gif


When I returned and viewed the dried 3 coats, the contrast enhancing "attribute" of the paint revealed some serious blemishes.

These areas needed Drywall Compound, and re-priming...so to be certain I would not have any bleed-thru using the semi-translucent SF paint, I had to primer over the entire screen.



In the bottom left image.........you can see how much different the 3-coated, un-primed area looks.

So today...I will start over again.....but not before I make an even more meticulous inspection.

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post #23 of 75 Old 10-14-2013, 05:14 AM
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i just thought will smith was wearing eye makeup... ya know Lady Gaga style...
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post #24 of 75 Old 10-14-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

So today...I will start over again.....but not before I make an even more meticulous inspection.
That's disappointing. It seems like a systematic approach to inspection is warranted. Maybe project a grid of some kind and work through each area with the light on, one at a time.
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post #25 of 75 Old 10-14-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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All looks splendid......leastwise as far as my bleary eyes can tell. That 4:40 AM posting time? That was 40 minutes after I left the site. redface.gif

Sooooo......back I go after everyone is gone (...about 7:00 pm ...) and I shall be there until I'm done (...approx. 3.5 hours....)

News at 11:00. cool.gif

It will either be accompanied by the joyous sounding of Heralding Trumpets, or the crash of the impending Apocalypse. ( my fist through the wall. tongue.gif )

I'm going to go take a long nap.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #26 of 75 Old 10-14-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post




Just having no black bars ... eek.gifbiggrin.gif

Can just imagine a GOOD projector... Once again... Looking GOOOOOODDDDDD!!!

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post #27 of 75 Old 10-15-2013, 04:17 PM
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Just getting home, and what do I find waiting at the front door?

Pacific Rim Bluray ripping as we speak. rolleyes.gifwink.gif

Getting closer and awaiting update smile.gif

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
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RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
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Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #28 of 75 Old 10-15-2013, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Early AM Update. (2:00)

3 coats up over Primer re-do

Mixing:


http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0012_zps25b88f25.mp4.html


Straining:

http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0022_zpsd3e9b596.mp4.html


1st Coat going up:


http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0033_zpsb656ced9.mp4.html


3rd Coat going up:

http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0041_zpsc7a70f3e.mp4.html


In the last Video, I adjusted the pressure at the Gun downward a bit to allow for a finer mist, so that allowed me to slow my sideways progression to 2' per second.

What is not shown is the immediate use of a Pole Fan to hasten dry times.

On my way back to apply the last two coats, so an additional edit to this post will be forthcoming..

...........and here it is.....

4th Coat

http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/Coat4_zpsa4c216ef.mp4.html



5th and final Coat


http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/coat5_zps1a8e9441.mp4.html


Using a Pole Fan to hasten dry times. Usually 30 minutes is all that is needed. However the Fan must start out clean...with no Dust Bunnies on or around the Blades. Using such an elevated fan allow one to avoid sucking dust up off the floor, as well as positioning it at just the right angle.



The end result.......



Plastic comes down this AM, then I'll post a cleaner shot.

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post #29 of 75 Old 10-16-2013, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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The screen after Plastic has been removed.



I "might"be able to manage a few shots on the screen this evening using the Optoma TH1020, before I cover the screen up in a Plastic Veener.

Most probably............... wink.gif

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post #30 of 75 Old 10-17-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are four Collages of images. Some show the image projected past the Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 screen onto the White Primed Wall, so as to exhibit both the deepen of blacks, and the preservation of the colors / whites. I used a Optoma TH1020 with 1900+ hours on the Lamp too. rolleyes.gif







(...Note the marked lack of any significant loss of Viewing Cone in the Uruha images above...)





While there is bound to be an obvious degree of attenuation in white levels, the perceived level of the whites retained is more obvious than the level of Black reduction would seem to indicate possible. When viewed with the deeper black levels, whites retain a vibrancy that bespeaks of the gain of the screen allowing such. While some might question such as being possible, it is the intention of using embedded Mica (Silver & Pearlesence) that is only partially masked by the White Paint that constitutes only 10 oz within a 1 Gallon Mix.

In truth, the Gray Shade is about 75% due to the hue of the Silver Metallic, with the balance owning to the addition of 4 oz. of the RGBY Colorant.



Now all that being said, I must relate that I have decided to sand the surface once again and apply another 2 coats. This because my previous repairs, where I decided to "Roll" on the Primer using a 1/4" Nap "Best Quality" Roller Cover, had left a barely noticeable degree of surface texture that came through the last 2 coats of SF I applied. Such is the extreme degree of both Contrast enhancement and Gain that any degree of surface texture just jumps out.

Would many notice? Moist likely not given the quality of the image. But such things are exactly what I look for, and having become accustomed to using perfectly smooth substrates, the degree of surface texture I could see from 10' away during bright, lightly colored scenes was simple unacceptable. I sanded the screen with a medium Grit Sanding Sponge before I left to go get my paint gear...(...everyone looking at the screen said I was nuts... redface.gif ) and upon my return it will get another light sanding with a Fine Grit Sponge.

So yep....I'm on my way back in the next few minutes to redo this thing again. I expect it to be even Mo 'Bedder. cool.gif

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