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Old 09-26-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

 

I am planning a HT in my basement room (21' x 12.5') with budget of $30000.  I understand it will not be fancy, but hopefully good enough for family use.

 

I don't know much about it, so please help me with these questions, thanks in advance.

 

1. Audio/video: $18000 to 20000

 

Projector: waiting for Epson 5030 or 6030, around $3000

Screen: Black diamond edge G2 about 100-110', maybe $2500-3500?

Speakers: Klipsch THX ultra2

DVD player: waiting for PS4 in November.

 

Questions:  Do I need AC power source, amplifier, preamplifier, etc?  What else do I need?

 

2. Relatively simple construction: $10000 (again, not too fancy)

 

Including some lighting in ceiling, on the wall, elevated second row of seats, installing the speakers behind the drywall.  By the way, I plan to hang some speaks on the wall.  Seating about $3000-4000.

 

Questions:  Does this sound reasonable, given construction can be expansive?

 

Thanks a lot.

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Old 09-26-2013, 06:58 PM
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Answering the last question first, yes, it does sound reasonable. For purposes of comparison I spent a little over a third of your budget on my entire project (check signature). Granted my room already had drywall, HVAC, and power but still.

I see the advice often that you should try to avoid buying electronics until the room construction has progressed substantially. This is really good advice. First it gives you flexibility in your design. Instead of being forced into a certain shape, enclosure, location, etc. by a piece of gear you can optimize the room first. The room is often cited as the most important part of the system and it's not just because it looks pretty. It takes a fair bit of planning to make it SOUND pretty too. Second, you'll avoid the inevitable technology obsolescence and be able to buy the superest awesomest spectacularest little black box that money can buy when your theatre's ready instead of having to "suffer" with last year's model.

By the way, it CAN be fancy for $30,000. It really can. Make smart decisions, do the work yourself when you can, start with a GREAT plan, and have fun. This forum is abundant with excellent advice. Most of it's free but you can also avail yourself of the highly praised AVS Design Service for a modest sum.
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for wonderful advices.

 

You room dose look very nice, especially with that budget.  Now I feel more confident.

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:09 PM
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You don't have to have special power, but it makes sense to do a little something to protect your investment from power surges and such (I'm not the guy to give you recommendations, but I understand that it needn't be terribly expensive).

You will need some kind of processor and amp(s) or an AVR. The simplest choice is to select an Ultra2 certified AVR, but you can get more audio and video performance with some separates, but it would end up more expensive, most likely. Budget at least $500, but depending on your needs and priorities, you could spend several times that.

Your dimensions and budget are almost the same as mine. I'm still in progress, but you can see how I worked through some of these decisions in my build thread.

Welcome to the madness. smile.gif
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:30 PM
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No mention of sound containment goals............what are they? What about room treatments?

Yes, your room budget is doable.................but I suggest placing more $ into room................IMHO, the single most important part of build.

Your equipment budget is more than enough...............the Ultra II's with quality separates can be had for south of $11,000-$12,000.

With your room width, I'd look at AT screens..........look at Seymour AV.

Think about contacting Mike at AVS Sales Team.................he can really help you with screen selection, projector.............and really help with some of your purchases!!!! wink.gif
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for advices.

 

I am actually looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-THX-Ultra2-TX-NR3010-Elite-20/dp/B00DZ04SF0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

 

As you can see, that's why comes with my questions about amp/preamps and AC power source (if I could save some).

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water48334 View Post

Thanks for advices.

I am actually looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-THX-Ultra2-TX-NR3010-Elite-20/dp/B00DZ04SF0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

As you can see, that's why comes with my questions about amp/preamps and AC power source (if I could save some).

That's too much.....................

The Ultra II's with ATI 3007 + Marantz 8801 + Panamax MB 1500 can be had for less! wink.gif
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I am really not that into next step yet.  In particular, not sure how much more I could spend.  So room treatment would be minimal....yes  I understand how important it is, but for laymen's ear like me, maybe I cannot tell the big difference with/without acoustic walls/ceiling/carpet, etc.  I went to bestbuy the other day, in their Magnolia show room, there were some acoustic panels, $2000/5 pieces.  I am thinking that perhaps I could buy 5-10 pieces to achieve certain result when compared with the entire acoustic wall/ceiling.

 

I am new here, so how could I contact: "Mike at AVS Sales Team"?

 

Thanks.

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Old 09-26-2013, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure if I could afford M8801 ($3500 on Amazon).  Sorry, but what is ATI 3307?

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Old 09-26-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by water48334 View Post

I am not sure if I could afford M8801 ($3500 on Amazon).  Sorry, but what is ATI 3307?

ATI is a 7 channel amp with XLR connects.................................once again, you need to CALL Mike at AVS!!!!!!!!


Contact Classic Audio Parts which is a sister company for ATI and is OEM for many high end amplifier companies.

Too bad you missed out on Sherbourne's fire sale. Their 7-350 amp could have been purchased for $999....................you might find one for an elevated price on e-bay.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I will try that.  Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

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Old 09-26-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by water48334 View Post

I am really not that into next step yet.  In particular, not sure how much more I could spend.  So room treatment would be minimal....yes  I understand how important it is, but for laymen's ear like me, maybe I cannot tell the big difference with/without acoustic walls/ceiling/carpet, etc.  I went to bestbuy the other day, in their Magnolia show room, there were some acoustic panels, $2000/5 pieces.  I am thinking that perhaps I could buy 5-10 pieces to achieve certain result when compared with the entire acoustic wall/ceiling.

I am new here, so how could I contact: "Mike at AVS Sales Team"?

Thanks.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:52 PM
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My room is a similar size (same width but 2' shorter) and my final cost came in just under your proposed budget. I have a complete cost breakdown in the first post of my thread if you want to see how I allocated my $$.

Spending over 60% or your budget on the av gear seems a bit high. As others have mentioned, I'd spend a little more on the room if possible. I think you would be surprised what acoustic treatments can do for your room, and probably even more surprised how cost effective they can be if you don't buy them at Best Buy/Magnolia. smile.gif Most folks on here go the DIY route for their acoustic treatments without spending too much money.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:43 AM
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Like others have said I would make sure the room is done correctly and worry about the equipment later. If you do the room right a setup like the one linked below would sound better than the $13,000 system you linked earlier hooked up in a room with bad acoustics.

This is a hell of a deal for $1,600.

http://slickdeals.net/f/6306292-klipsch-reference-ii-5-0-speaker-system-w-sw-310-powered-subwoofer-harman-kardon-avr-2700-7-1-receiver-1599-free-shipping

War Eagle!
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I talked with several local HT companies about room construction.  Most of them don't do it and recommend me to find contractor, only one I talked to would like to come to take a look about they could do with $10,000.  Of course I want to have acoustic walls/ceiling to have perfect sound, but it probably out of my range of budget, even for simple finishes of the entire room (one quoted me at least $40,000 for what they think decent sound effect in this room......cannot afford it).  Even I reduce audio/video budget a little bit and add it to room deco, still not enough, that's why I am thinking those sound panels.  I assume 10 pieces are plenty for 21 x13 room, so I could have sort to acoustic effect.

 

Overall, budget limited, sorry for headache.

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Old 09-27-2013, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you all are right.

 

I will talk with more people about how to do this room first, then equipments later.  

 

The deal is really nice, but I have been bothered for a long time about the difference among Klipsch RB-41 II, RB-51 II, RB-61 II, RB-81 II, RB-42 II, RB-52 II, RB-62 II, RB-82 II, and RF-7 II.  The question is: for my ears, can I tell the difference?  If not, why should I choose the top of line?  I guess we could all go a little bit higher with our budget, but where will we stop?

 

One thing for sure is that I want 7.1 or 7.2.  I select Klipsch THX Ultra2 simply to naively believe it is better than all of the above in a certain way, and it is 7.2, so I don't need to choose among millions options of front speakers, central, surrounds, subwoofers of millions brands.  See, my logic is to find something compatible, matched, easy.......I might be wrong about this because HT is supposed to be complicated to create best audio/video result.  

 

It is like to buy a computer, with you budget, you have to balance the monitor, CPU, video card,sound card, memory, tower, speakers, etc, and with the same budget, you could have many options.

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Old 09-27-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by water48334 View Post

I talked with several local HT companies about room construction.  Most of them don't do it and recommend me to find contractor, only one I talked to would like to come to take a look about they could do with $10,000.  Of course I want to have acoustic walls/ceiling to have perfect sound, but it probably out of my range of budget, even for simple finishes of the entire room (one quoted me at least $40,000 for what they think decent sound effect in this room......cannot afford it).  Even I reduce audio/video budget a little bit and add it to room deco, still not enough, that's why I am thinking those sound panels.  I assume 10 pieces are plenty for 21 x13 room, so I could have sort to acoustic effect.

Overall, budget limited, sorry for headache.

You should have no problem building a top-notch theater for $30k. Obviously, the more work you do yourself, the farther your dollar will stretch. The same can be said for planning. I'd suggest reading through as many of the builds as you can to get an idea of what goes into a theater room. I think you'll find that $30k can get you a lot if you spend it wisely, and that doesn't mean you need to cut corners by eliminating soundproofing or acoustic treatments. You could get all of these things with proper planning.

If the research & planning process seems overwhelming, you could always use the Theater Design Service offered by The Erskine Group. Not only will they ask the right questions in order to determine your goals, but they will make sure your dollars are spent in the right places so you get the most bang for your buck.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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You should have no problem building a top-notch theater for $30k. Obviously, the more work you do yourself, the farther your dollar will stretch. The same can be said for planning. I'd suggest reading through as many of the builds as you can to get an idea of what goes into a theater room. I think you'll find that $30k can get you a lot if you spend it wisely, and that doesn't mean you need to cut corners by eliminating soundproofing or acoustic treatments. You could get all of these things with proper planning.

If the research & planning process seems overwhelming, you could always use the Theater Design Service offered by The Erskine Group. Not only will they ask the right questions in order to determine your goals, but they will make sure your dollars are spent in the right places so you get the most bang for your buck.

 

Excellent opinion, I really appreciate that.  I did read a lot through this and other forums to gather information I need to learn, to be honest, the more I read, the more "overwhelming" I am.  Regarding budget, as you can imagine, I have tried my best to limit my budget not to add $100 here or $200 there, given if I could do 30k, I could do 30k+100.  

 

I am not sure I could afford Erskine, showrooms from their website are beautiful, probably in the range over 100k.  I contacted one of my local company who said minimal project is over $50k and their lowest project is $65k.  So, I will pass, but thank you for that.

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Old 09-27-2013, 10:13 AM
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I was referring to the entry-level theater design package that they used to offer directly through AVS. I think it is now offered directly through the Erskine Group and it used to be in the neighborhood of $600. It isn't a full-blown set of construction drawings, but it includes a floor plan and elevations of each wall, showing proper placement of all components like screen, speakers, seating, projector, etc.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I was referring to the entry-level theater design package that they used to offer directly through AVS. I think it is now offered directly through the Erskine Group and it used to be in the neighborhood of $600. It isn't a full-blown set of construction drawings, but it includes a floor plan and elevations of each wall, showing proper placement of all components like screen, speakers, seating, projector, etc.

 

Thank you, Spaceman.  That's really helpful.  I will keep it in mind..... because I am contacting Mike now.

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Old 09-27-2013, 01:43 PM
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Like others have said I would make sure the room is done correctly and worry about the equipment later. If you do the room right a setup like the one linked below would sound better than the $13,000 system you linked earlier hooked up in a room with bad acoustics.

This is a hell of a deal for $1,600.

http://slickdeals.net/f/6306292-klipsch-reference-ii-5-0-speaker-system-w-sw-310-powered-subwoofer-harman-kardon-avr-2700-7-1-receiver-1599-free-shipping


+1

Room acoustics would be on the top of my list.
Much easier and cost effective to design your room correctly from the start than it is to fix a broken room after the fact.
Lots of great information and videos in the links below:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/255432/acoustical-treatments-master-thread
http://www.realtraps.com
http://www.gikacoustics.com/
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/

Cheers,
-BB
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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+1

Room acoustics would be on the top of my list.
Much easier and cost effective to design your room correctly from the start than it is to fix a broken room after the fact.
Lots of great information and videos in the links below:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/255432/acoustical-treatments-master-thread
http://www.realtraps.com
http://www.gikacoustics.com/
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/

Cheers,
-BB

 

You are all absolutely right!  

 

But, I am confused.  With 30K, should I spend 20-25K on room, 5-10K on audio/video?  Or the opposite?

 

I agree to do the room first, that's what I am doing now, but could you guys give me clear split of 30K to do which?

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Old 09-27-2013, 02:26 PM
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I don't believe that you've ever given us the current state of your basement. If it is completely unfinished, then adding clips to decouple the stud walls and clips and channel on the ceiling at this point is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the entire project.

You have to remember that the point of decoupling the walls (AND ceiling) is to lower the noise floor INSIDE the room (keep noise out) and the fact that using those techniques keeps sound from getting OUT is only a happy co-incidence. The room will sound 100% better if built properly.

I'd have to say that spending 20--25K on equipemnt and only 5-10K on the room is simply ludicrous. It is FAR FAR easier to upgrade equipment than the room. It isn't easy to go back and add putty pads to outlet and switch boxes (another drop in the bucket compared to the total cost) AFTER drywall is up.

Do the room right and take what's left and buy equipment.

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Old 09-27-2013, 02:32 PM
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I think you need to slow down a bit. Based upon your join date I'm not sure how log you have been lurking here or on other forums. It appears you are still clearly in phase 1. You got an excellent budget, but as other said....the room is what you will keep for decades..the gear, not so much.

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Old 09-27-2013, 02:43 PM
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You are all absolutely right!  

But, I am confused.  With 30K, should I spend 20-25K on room, 5-10K on audio/video?  Or the opposite?

I agree to do the room first, that's what I am doing now, but could you guys give me clear split of 30K to do which?


I suggest you start with a sketch of your space Including ceiling height(s), door(s), window(s), etc.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't believe that you've ever given us the current state of your basement. If it is completely unfinished, then adding clips to decouple the stud walls and clips and channel on the ceiling at this point is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the entire project.

You have to remember that the point of decoupling the walls (AND ceiling) is to lower the noise floor INSIDE the room (keep noise out) and the fact that using those techniques keeps sound from getting OUT is only a happy co-incidence. The room will sound 100% better if built properly.

I'd have to say that spending 20--25K on equipemnt and only 5-10K on the room is simply ludicrous. It is FAR FAR easier to upgrade equipment than the room. It isn't easy to go back and add putty pads to outlet and switch boxes (another drop in the bucket compared to the total cost) AFTER drywall is up.

Do the room right and take what's left and buy equipment.

 

The room is 21x13, and finished with dry wall only, no lights, I was told prewired by the builder.

 

Thank you for the analysis and suggestions.  Still, what would you recommend about how I split  30K for this room?

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Old 09-27-2013, 05:42 PM
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Just to start...............

For clip and channel system with all the goodies to sound contain: $4,000-$5000
Acoustic Treatments ie. minimum including bass trapping: $5000, but can do much cheaper if you're willing to research
Acoustic fabric and channels: $2,000

These budget line items can be lowered/increased based on goals........................just a heads up for getting budget concerns started in a realistic fashion

Look at post 85 of my thread.....................it will give you some idea of cost, but I did my room beyond the norm...............my line items do not include electrician, wiring, drywall, sheet rock, framing though I had to re-do myself..............I have also not included Erskine Group design costs......................

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434831/the-coffin-build/60
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you need to slow down a bit. Based upon your join date I'm not sure how log you have been lurking here or on other forums. It appears you are still clearly in phase 1. You got an excellent budget, but as other said....the room is what you will keep for decades..the gear, not so much.

 

I have been visiting these forums on and off for quite a while, but never come to real question like this.  So never post anything.  Though I did learned a lot from numerous posts, but when facing real planning, suddenly I feel in kindergarden.  I will talk to Mike on Monday after he's back from CEDIA.  Thanks, man.

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Old 09-27-2013, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to start...............

For clip and channel system with all the goodies to sound contain: $4,000-$5000
Acoustic Treatments ie. minimum including bass trapping: $5000, but can do much cheaper if you're willing to research
Acoustic fabric and channels: $2,000

These budget line items can be lowered/increased based on goals........................just a heads up for getting budget concerns started in a realistic fashion

 

 I heard back from Mike, that he will be on Monday from CEDIA.  Thanks, and have a nice weekend.

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Old 09-27-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water48334 View Post

 I heard back from Mike, that he will be on Monday from CEDIA.  Thanks, and have a nice weekend.

Shopping with AVS can do your pocket book good!!!!! smile.gif

On equipment to room % breakdown........................for myself, I'm looking at 25% room to 75 % equipment. That number is based on MSRP prices for equipment, including a $25,000 projector...................and believe me, I paid no where near MSRP for any piece of equipment. wink.gif

Look at this cost breakdown..............


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434831/the-coffin-build/60 post ...........post 85
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