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post #1 of 73 Old 10-10-2013, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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As with most on this forum, i have lurked for years, done a TV room in my previous house and ready to go to the next level.

Updated on 1/6/2014
Decided to re-organize this opening post. Will be going with a 7.2.4 Atmos setup.

Equipment List (Some being re-used from previous media room until an upgrade is needed)
Owned
Pre-Pro: Denon 2807 (To be replaced with Atmos support)
Amp: Emotiva LPA-5
Fronts: Def Tech BP8 (Dipoles, so no front wall treatments)
Center: Def Tech CLR
Subs: Velodyn 10

To be purchased
Sides/Rears: Def Tech In walls or possible DIY Volt-6
PJ: Sony VPL-HW40ES
Screen: Jamestown Screens Seymour XD Material
Atmos: Will be ceiling firing, not ceiling speakers

Final design
Front stage
4 Side and 2 rear colums
7' barn door opening

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post #2 of 73 Old 10-11-2013, 05:19 AM
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10 Years ago I too wanted and open plan. Today I realize how stupid I was.

As your taste for bigger, better and more dyunamic speakers evolves your ability to limit the sound to the basement will be significantly challenged. If you intend to be single for your life in this house, no problem.

As you strive for perfection in the sound field, not having a back wall means no rear wall reflections to add to the sense of envelopment of the surround sound. Of course you won't have a rear wall to mount the rear surrounds, ceiling mounts are a compromise.
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post #3 of 73 Old 10-11-2013, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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10 Years ago I too wanted and open plan. Today I realize how stupid I was.

I hear ya, and here are my reasons. This theater will be used more for viewing sports than movies. I will entertain and use the area like a sports bar for 20+ people. The good thing is that this layout could easily be closed off with 20ft of wall if i completely regret the decision.
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post #4 of 73 Old 10-11-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Update on the plan, moved a few walls, increased the throw distance on the PJ, had to shrink the bar and turn the media rack. In case anyone is wondering why i put the media rack where it is, its for 2 reasons. I wanted any sound away from the viewing area, and it will stay there because my whole house AV/network/camera/etc lines are terminated there. Ive got bids out on material, shouldnt be long now.

Ive long been engaged in the audio side of things, but PJs and screens are new to me. From my research a Panasonic AE8000 fits my budget, even though we wont use 3D. Since this will be used mainly for games, sports, and prime time TV, a 16x9 also makes the most sense. Then comes to the AT portion, since my throw can be a max of 17' feet, im thinking speakers will need to be below and beside the screen, that doesnt really bother me. If i start looking ahead to screens, the monoprice 133 and 150 fixed frame 16x9 look great for price. Both are 1.0 gain and with having a full window and 6 foot door, should i be looking at a 1.3 gain? The calculator i saw said that 150" and a 15' throw works for this, how does throw/size affect quality? Thanks for continued feedback.

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post #5 of 73 Old 10-16-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated the previous post with a new sketch and some questions.
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post #6 of 73 Old 10-16-2013, 12:19 PM
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I prefer the expanded floor plan. I gather there'll be access for the furnace?

Do you own that bar and stools already? Seems to me you could build an expanded curved bar
with the added room. (Have you seen BigmouthinDC's bar? smile.gif )

You might want the gain with a non-AT screen and you might want to consider how low your center channel ends up,
with such a large 16x9 screen. I am not sure that projector can drive such a large screen with adequate light levels.
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post #7 of 73 Old 01-10-2014, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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After having a few designers out, we are pretty close to a final design, which is below. You can we have gone with the same open floor plan, and im starting to research the sound proofing. 2 walls are exterior, 1 wall runs next to the steps for which i will use a double wall, 1 staggered, with insulation, GG drywall layers, and resilient drywall channels. The ceiling will be the typical soundproofiing of 2 layers of drywall (GG), insulation, and resilient channels. With the rear of the theater being mainly open with 2 pillars and an arch, am i going to have a huge problem of sound bouncing off the far rear wall and back up the steps? I realize that i will have some sound leakage, Im just trying to limit it from going up 3 levels to the bedrooms area, this is a 5 level split. Thoughts?

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post #8 of 73 Old 01-10-2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughesne View Post

After having a few designers out, we are pretty close to a final design, which is below. You can we have gone with the same open floor plan, and im starting to research the sound proofing. 2 walls are exterior, 1 wall runs next to the steps for which i will use a double wall, 1 staggered, with insulation, GG drywall layers, and resilient drywall channels. The ceiling will be the typical soundproofiing of 2 layers of drywall (GG), insulation, and resilient channels. With the rear of the theater being mainly open with 2 pillars and an arch, am i going to have a huge problem of sound bouncing off the far rear wall and back up the steps? I realize that i will have some sound leakage, Im just trying to limit it from going up 3 levels to the bedrooms area, this is a 5 level split. Thoughts?

Sound isolation, in an open concept like that, is usually not effective. The double doors to the exterior can cause problems, and the open area to the workout room and the open stairway are big holes in your isolation. Sound isolation is pretty much an all or nothing concept, you cannot isolate part of the room; it has to be all walls, the ceiling, doors, and the openings to the stairway and workout area need to be closed.

If you are able to isolate the entire space, and close off those doorways, Instead of resilient channel, you should look at hat channel and whisper clips. You can get both from Ted White, here on the forum...

Every man dies. Not every man really lives.
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post #9 of 73 Old 01-13-2014, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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All right, think im going to give up on the open concept, which means the design changes to something like this. With the closed design, i decided to add a 2nd row on a 7' x 10' x 12" riser. But then that pushes the front row only 9' from the screen, which is a planned 125" 2.35 screen. I know viewing distance is personal pref, but is this going to be too close and make people sick? This basement is almost 1300 sq. ft, so i should have plenty of room, feel like im missing an obviously better design.

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post #10 of 73 Old 01-13-2014, 06:42 AM
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Your back row is pressed up against the back wall, which is really not ideal. If you rotate the theater 90 degrees, and steal 3' from the ping pong room, you could have 17' x 19' approx, which would allow you to use 135" screen and maybe even get more seating in there.
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post #11 of 73 Old 01-13-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djkest View Post

Your back row is pressed up against the back wall, which is really not ideal. If you rotate the theater 90 degrees, and steal 3' from the ping pong room, you could have 17' x 19' approx, which would allow you to use 135" screen and maybe even get more seating in there.

When i mock up that design, the ping pong area now seems like an oversized hallway at < 12' wide. 5 seats in the back row and 3 up front is what im going for.
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post #12 of 73 Old 09-04-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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So here is what looks to be the final plan, as framing for the entire project is complete. Ive decided to keep an open plan, but will have 2" barn doors that close off the theater, 2 3-0 doors sliding from each side.. I realize flanking will still exist, but im pretty sure it will get me where i want with the sound proofing, so far all the theater walls are decoupled with IB4 clips. So framing is pretty much done and im about 90% done with rough electric. Taking a little longer as this is an entire 1200 sq ft project and I add decided to add a TV to the patio outside. So getting electric, coax, and 2 cat lines has been a challenge.

I also went with an octagon shape for the tray, which im not sure i like and may be more hassle when doing crown and tray lighting. I wanted to do something different, but i not sure and may remove. I also had to rebuild the back soffit for the PJ box and now i need to do my drywall punch out on that.

If there are any opinions, Im happy to hear them.







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post #13 of 73 Old 09-05-2014, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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For those interested in the barn door look, this is the look I'm going for, except with 2 doors on each side, so that each door can be smaller and still have a large opening.

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post #14 of 73 Old 09-06-2014, 07:27 AM
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Excellent choice on the barn doors. Keep the updates coming.
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post #15 of 73 Old 11-06-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Ive got low voltage, electric, and HVAC done. About done with insulation, should be by the weekend. Also have sheets of 5/8" OSB sitting here ready to go up. Dry wallers took measurements yesterday and can be ready at 2 days notice. Ive opted for a 7.2 design, but all areas are conduit'd back to the rack if i want to expand to 19.12 at any point.

Currently Im questing my soundproofing and would like opinions. All the walls and soffits are connected to the joists with DC04 clips. Behind the studs is 1" rigid, so im definitely 1" from the foundation. My goal is reduce footfall, but more importantly is to keep the theater noise in, specifically the .2 portions of the setup. My original plan was to put hat channel on the walls, bottom and sides of soffit. Whisper clips+hat on the inner tray of the ceiling. Ive got R19 in the ceilings and most the soffits (1 soffit has a trunk run with no room for any), R13 on the walls. Then add 5/8" OSB + 2 loads of GG + 5/8" drywall on everything. I feel like the hat channel on the walls soffit is a waste with having the DC04s, but was thinking that for the small expense, it will decouple anything that the framers did wrong. I was also questioning the expense of the whisper clips and considering RSIC-V instead for a 1/3 of the cost.

Thoughts?
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post #16 of 73 Old 11-06-2014, 10:19 AM
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how many zip codes does this house stretch over?
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post #17 of 73 Old 11-06-2014, 03:19 PM
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I'm not seeing how the barn doors will work with your bar table and seats positioned where they are... With the doors closed, the bar table/seats are outside the theater, correct? With the doors open, will there be enough clearance for a walkway? If the doors are closed, and you're in the theater, it appears you'd have to open the door all the way in order to get out of the room, too.

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post #18 of 73 Old 11-06-2014, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not seeing how the barn doors will work with your bar table and seats positioned where they are... With the doors closed, the bar table/seats are outside the theater, correct? With the doors open, will there be enough clearance for a walkway? If the doors are closed, and you're in the theater, it appears you'd have to open the door all the way in order to get out of the room, too.

The sketch has some scale issues with he couch and bar top, but you are correct that opening 1 door will be needed to exit. It's a 3-4 door, so not a huge deal. And when closed, the bar top will be outside. Those are for overflow for game day. Closing off is keep the sound flanking down when others don't want to hear. The doors are solid 3".
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post #19 of 73 Old 11-07-2014, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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No opinions on the sound proofing step Ive got coming up?
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post #20 of 73 Old 11-09-2014, 11:42 AM
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I would give a call to The Soundproofing Company. They are the experts.
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post #21 of 73 Old 11-09-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Couple updated photos. First, everything all buttoned up with a nice itchy blanket.



From outside the future 3-6 barn doors.


The 8" vent, snaked around 10' before getting to a dedicated trunk. Should be quiet. 2 sub lines, and 3 fronts.


From screen back, will be definitely be light controlled, even with a 6-0 door and a 4-0 window.


Looking in from the bar area and temporary work ping pong area.


And this is what keeps me going, fresh drinks, i built this before anything else was done. You can see the MA rack behind the framing, i need to cut into that wall as the rack will be apart of this bar. The keg fridge will be hidden behind the wall, with refrigerated lines to serve up 3 keg lines to the bar.
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post #22 of 73 Old 11-10-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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With Xmas coming up, theater progress is probably going to slow down after i get it rocked. My kids are spoiled and will take my monthly allowance. So i started thinking about video distribution. Is HDBASE-T the logical solution here? Ive got 4 total TVs in the basement; PJ, Bar, Exercise, Patio; I'd like all to be wired in together. Sources would be DTV, BR, ATV, XBO. Monoprice has the 4x4 matrix for about 1600. At ~300 for 4x2, its cheaper to just daisy chain 3 of them together.
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post #23 of 73 Old 11-10-2014, 11:21 AM
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So i started thinking about video distribution. Is HDBASE-T the logical solution here?
Well, just make sure you've read the threads in the Home AV Distribution forum about HDMI matrix switches. There will be audio limitations if you mix surround and TV-only zones in the mix (see 'common denominator' issue). Since you have or can run some more cat5e/cat6, you don't HAVE to go HDBaseT and save some money there by using the 2-cable solutions. If you ran at least 3 category cables to each display location, you can do everything you need without HDBaseT. But HDBaseT is simple and reliable.

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Ive got 4 total TVs in the basement; PJ, Bar, Exercise, Patio; I'd like all to be wired in together. Sources would be DTV, BR, ATV, XBO. Monoprice has the 4x4 matrix for about 1600. At ~300 for 4x2, its cheaper to just daisy chain 3 of them together.
Don't do that. If anything, use HDMI splitters for the sources and feed two 4x2 switches. But you're asking for trouble. Ask yourself if you really need all of those sources at all of those locations. You will likely want to dedicate some or all of those sources to the theater, duplicating them for the 'rest of the space' to avoid the audio issues. And paying $300 to distribute a $99 ATV may not be the best answer...

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post #24 of 73 Old 11-12-2014, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Changed my design slightly, and made it to scale. Decided to not do a 2nd row on a riser, just the bar top. I know the 2 side chairs arent ideal, but its what I can do with the space ive got.

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post #25 of 73 Old 11-13-2014, 05:04 PM
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Have you thought about bringing in the sofa 2 feet, thus moving up the bar and getting rid of the side chairs? How much seating do you need? You could fit 4 chairs behind the bar along with the sofa that seats 3 or 4.
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post #26 of 73 Old 11-19-2014, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Some gifts from Ted and John. Got all the pieces to get the walls built. Except a 2nd hand or drywall hoist.

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post #27 of 73 Old 11-20-2014, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Question about the hat channel install into whisper clips. The inside of my tray ceiling is about 12x12 and the channels i have are 10'. What is the minimum length a hat should be? Can i just use 10' plus a 2.5' piece to get the 6" overlap and then the last 2' would span just 2 clips? Based on staggering, i would have some pieces be 48" or so to hit 2 clips. Is 2 feet and 2 clips too short?
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post #28 of 73 Old 11-20-2014, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Question about the hat channel install into whisper clips. The inside of my tray ceiling is about 12x12 and the channels i have are 10'. What is the minimum length a hat should be? Can i just use 10' plus a 2.5' piece to get the 6" overlap and then the last 2' would span just 2 clips? Based on staggering, i would have some pieces be 48" or so to hit 2 clips. Is 2 feet and 2 clips too short?
For those that are curious. Ted got back to me and suggested 3 equal lengths, which works out to 4'8" per section.
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post #29 of 73 Old 11-20-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Starting to think about acoustical treatments. Ive read the many threads and can't really justify paying for a plan right now. Considering that I plan to use my existing def tech dipolar speakers, my front wall treatments will be limited. Can i simply start with corner base traps in the front and 2 panels per side above the chair rail (in between the columns) and get any sort of results?
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post #30 of 73 Old 11-21-2014, 02:17 AM
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Changed my design slightly, and made it to scale. Decided to not do a 2nd row on a riser, just the bar top. I know the 2 side chairs arent ideal, but its what I can do with the space ive got.
I'd forget about those side chairs, having instead more seats side by side.
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