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post #91 of 151 Old 07-22-2014, 05:53 AM
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Wow, you really have been busy! On another side note, the jtr 215s will be easier to get down there now.
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post #92 of 151 Old 07-22-2014, 06:03 AM
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You must be on vacation.... So much progress in short time. Well done.

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post #93 of 151 Old 07-23-2014, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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post #94 of 151 Old 07-24-2014, 04:05 AM
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Pretty much the most awesome pic I've seen ^

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post #95 of 151 Old 07-24-2014, 05:38 AM
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I see your brother came by late.
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post #96 of 151 Old 07-25-2014, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Best...speaker...stands...ever!!





Seriously though, I already bought the MDF to build some but just ran out of time.

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post #97 of 151 Old 07-29-2014, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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For acoustic treatment, I have a ton of 4" thick OC 703 laying around. Should I cover the entire back wall with it?

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post #98 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 07:15 AM
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hey luke how wide is your riser/room? Any concerns about that overhang creating a head bump hazard? I have a MUCH wider duct issue than you and am trying to figure out how to manage it.


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post #99 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
For acoustic treatment, I have a ton of 4" thick OC 703 laying around. Should I cover the entire back wall with it?
It certainly wouldn't hurt. If you have the space, you can also put an air gap behind the OC703 that will give you even better performance. If you could swing another 4" between the insulation and the wall, you would have pretty good absorption. Keep in mind though, that's for a normal room. From what I've seen, yours is anything but.

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post #100 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
hey luke how wide is your riser/room? Any concerns about that overhang creating a head bump hazard? I have a MUCH wider duct issue than you and am trying to figure out how to manage it.
The room is 12'7" wide, and yes, a head bump hazard is a concern.

I made the soffits as short as possible (they hang below the duct work by less than 1/4"), and I also made the riser shorter than I wanted.

You'd have to be 6'5" tall to hit your head on the soffit while standing on the riser, but that will be reduced to just over 6'4" once the wood ceiling goes up...

Definitely not ideal, but I didn't have much of a choice.

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post #101 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
The room is 12'7" wide, and yes, a head bump hazard is a concern.

I made the soffits as short as possible (they hang below the duct work by less than 1/4"), and I also made the riser shorter than I wanted.

You'd have to be 6'5" tall to hit your head on the soffit while standing on the riser, but that will be reduced to just over 6'4" once the wood ceiling goes up...

Definitely not ideal, but I didn't have much of a choice.
my basement floor to joist is only 7'9" so I think I'm going to have a bigger issue than you. Plus the combination of the ducts and the drain pipe runs four freaking feet out from the wall. I don't think there's any relocating the vents as those are the main supplies and returns for the first floor but man what a pain in the puhtooty.


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post #102 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
my basement floor to joist is only 7'9" so I think I'm going to have a bigger issue than you. Plus the combination of the ducts and the drain pipe runs four freaking feet out from the wall. I don't think there's any relocating the vents as those are the main supplies and returns for the first floor but man what a pain in the puhtooty.
The total height for basement is also right around 7'9", probably closer to 7'8".

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post #103 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
For acoustic treatment, I have a ton of 4" thick OC 703 laying around. Should I cover the entire back wall with it?

In addition to other locations or are you asking if tht is where you should start?

If you'd like I can relay to you what I was instructed by GIK during my build. Or you could give Alex over there a call. Great people.
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post #104 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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In addition to other locations or are you asking if tht is where you should start?

If you'd like I can relay to you what I was instructed by GIK during my build. Or you could give Alex over there a call. Great people.
As just as starting point.

I've noticed quite a few almost entirely covering that back wall, and when I stand in the room behind it, it seems a ton of 40-100hz content makes it through easily.

I'll have 4'x4' panels of 4" 703 on the first reflection points, and i'm going to stuff all the floor joists with the cheap pink fiberglass.

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post #105 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 09:34 AM
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Well, with that said....here's some of what I was told to do before even measuring.

Cover your entire front wall from top to just below the lowest point of your mains. This helps SBIR and also cleans up reflections from the rear surrounds firing into the front wall. Bass traps from floor to ceiling in each corner up front.

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You got your first reflections so you're good there. The back wall will want some coverage, but how much should be determined by measuring. Maybe you'll just need a couple panels back there, or maybe you'll need some serious trapping.

For example in my room half of the back wall is 8' closer to the seating than the other 8' so I had massive bass build up there. I ended up with 10 LF of 4" straddled in ceiling to wall corners and pink fluffy behind that. On the wall I put 3 2x4' 6" thick with 1.5" air gap bass traps on the wall. That helped tons. At first i just had a couple 4" thick 2x4' panels for basic absorption but in the end it was determined I needed as much trapping as space would allow.

Last, we did a ceiling cloud. 2" 2x4' panels x 3. A 5.5" air gap. Then in the longer half of the room a couple 2" thick spot panels and acoustical curtains were hung to help with some echo issues.

The main thing before any measurements was front wall, front bass traps, and first reflections.

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post #106 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 09:39 AM
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Here's an economical way to make your traps. Credit goes to GIK for this neat suggestion.


Bass Traps
Though you can give yourself a bit easier of a time if you imagine
using a full sheet for the front, then like a 20", 16", 12", 8", and finally
a 4" piece for the part in the corner. Only actually requires cutting three
pieces, because if you cut 20" of a 24" piece, you're left with the 4" piece
you need as well, and same with the 16" and 8", then you just cut one
straight down the middle for a 12" piece and you can use the other 12" piece
on the one to the side. So including the front sheet, you're using 3.5
sheets per 4' section.


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BllDo and Boomassiv like this.

FS- Netgear 550 .ISO player - PM me
My Gear-Pioneer, JBL Pro Cinema, Fi Car Audio 4- SP4 18", Peavey IPR2 7500 x 4 -Mini-Dsp 4x10, GIK Acoustics, Seymour Screens 110" AT, Dune Smarts, uNraid Server

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post #107 of 151 Old 07-30-2014, 02:36 PM
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(standing in the corner scratching my head) I've been reading these forums for a year and a half and I still don't understand this stuff.


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post #108 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 02:55 AM
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Luke,

Haven't posted here much, but felt you should know that I'm here...lurking...in the shadows...watching.

Enjoying the show for sure man!
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post #109 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Luke,

Haven't posted here much, but felt you should know that I'm here...lurking...in the shadows...watching.

Enjoying the show for sure man!
Thanks!

Next on the list is acoustic treatment...and a lot of it. Cash is low right now, so it's not going to move very fast. For now I'll be doing what I can with the OC 703 I already have.

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post #110 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:05 AM
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What is your ideal acoustical solution ?

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post #111 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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What is your ideal acoustical solution ?
I'm not sure. I'm new to the whole acoustic treatment stuff.

Right now the bass is way too "boomy", and the treble echoes on and on endlessly. That's what I expected with zero treatments though.

The biggest issue, which I'm not sure can be fixed, is the sub 40hz bass for the front row. It's about 15db less than the back row! Everything in the front row sounds weak/thin/lame.

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post #112 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:28 AM
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You need to move your subs. Boomy is harder to get rid of. You can hang a bed comforter on the walls and get rid of the echo for the most part. But you'll need thicker treatments for lower frequencies. The thicker the more they generally dig lower.

You could consider bass trap riser, bass corner traps. Or you could try some of those funky traps with all the holes cut in them like NicksHitachi did. You might even want to do front and back walls as bass traps. Or move your seats a little. Sounds like your sitting in a null.

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post #113 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:31 AM
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Put some pictures up of the room and where everything is, you'll get some feedback. It's tough to tell from your current pics where everything currently is.

You already carpeted your riser right ? Did you stuff pink fluffy? Put a grate or two or a single long grate along the back wall. You should be able to cut the carpet and have it look good/hidden under grate edges.

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post #114 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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You need to move your subs. Boomy is harder to get rid of. You can hang a bed comforter on the walls and get rid of the echo for the most part. But you'll need thicker treatments for lower frequencies. The thicker the more they generally dig lower.

You could consider bass trap riser, bass corner traps. Or you could try some of those funky traps with all the holes cut in them like NicksHitachi did. You might even want to do front and back walls as bass traps. Or move your seats a little. Sounds like your sitting in a null.
Moving the subs had no effect on the front row or the "boominess". Additionally, the front row can't really move anywhere else.

The entire back wall will be covered with 4" of OC 703, with several inches of an air gap between the wall and the insulation. There will also be bass traps in the front two corners from the floor to the ceiling.

The first reflection points will have 4'x4' panels of 4" 703. All the floor joists in the ceiling will be stuffed with cheap fiberglass insulation.

For the rear wall behind the seating I'll have to wait and see how things look after all the above is done.

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post #115 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:35 AM
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Check this out.
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post #116 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Check this out.
Room and riser are already built man

The only thing i'm doing from this point on is putting acoustic treatment in the room as it's already built.

I completely understand the reason why people build risers filled with sand and with three layers of OSB/MDF on them and such, and I've heard theaters, like the Savoy, that are built with every structural, acoustical, electrical, and even HVAC design taken into consideration, but I don't have the time or money for that kind of endeavor. Those theaters are amazing, but I didn't have the space or budget for anything like that.

I'll settle for a smaller room that will never have those acoustic or visual properties, but has killer subs with enough output to make you ill when called upon

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post #117 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 10:34 AM
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No I meant just cut a grate hole and put in a grate for a bass trap. Might help with the bass and boomy sound.

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post #118 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 12:22 PM
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You might need to look at adding a balancing sub or two to help get rid of that null. It doesn't need to crazy. A 15 or even a pair of 12's in the back of the room or placed along the side walls will go a long way to smooth out the response.

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post #119 of 151 Old 08-02-2014, 12:54 PM
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Yeah it's definitely something with the room. If you could spread out or relocate your subs it would make a huge difference. Since you have horns, using a smoothing sub might be problematic without DSP.

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post #120 of 151 Old 08-03-2014, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Moving the horns closer to the walls actually reduced output across the board for the whole room. I moved them around for a few hours taking measurements before they ended up where they are now.

Just the thought of adding any more bass gives me a headache...even if it is something small.

I think the acoustic treatment will help quite a bit.

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