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post #121 of 226 Old 08-03-2014, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Moving the horns closer to the walls actually reduced output across the board for the whole room. I moved them around for a few hours taking measurements before they ended up where they are now.

Just the thought of adding any more bass gives me a headache...even if it is something small.

I think the acoustic treatment will help quite a bit.
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post #122 of 226 Old 08-03-2014, 07:33 PM
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Just sent you a pm.

The sound acoustics and subs was the longest and most time consuming part of building my room. Its worth the patience and $$. Hang in there.
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post #123 of 226 Old 08-04-2014, 06:25 AM
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The null you are complaining about is a result of your sub locations and the size of your room boundaries. It's treatable but it does suck you sit in a null with such awesome subs.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #124 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Eh, I sit in the back row since the couch back there is more comfortable anyway. It doesn't bother me too much.

I stacked some 703 in the front two corners, and it increased response below 15hz by about 10db(!), and from 50hz to 150hz by 2-3db. Decay times across the board were slightly faster as well, so all good changes. Didn't budge the 30hz null for the front row, but oh well.

Is there any difference between the yellow fiberglass insulation and the pink fiberglass insulation, other than the yellow stuff is WAY cheaper in price? This will be used to stuff the floor joists.
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post #125 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 02:20 PM
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Eh, I sit in the back row since the couch back there is more comfortable anyway. It doesn't bother me too much.

I stacked some 703 in the front two corners, and it increased response below 15hz by about 10db(!), and from 50hz to 150hz by 2-3db. Decay times across the board were slightly faster as well, so all good changes. Didn't budge the 30hz null for the front row, but oh well.

Is there any difference between the yellow fiberglass insulation and the pink fiberglass insulation, other than the yellow stuff is WAY cheaper in price? This will be used to stuff the floor joists.
Are you asking about yellow-fluffy vs. pink-fluffy insulation? If so, just get whatever is cheaper.

Traditionally, I think most people would think of yellow as OC-703 and pink as pink-fluffy insulation. If that's the case, I want to know where you're getting your cheap OC-703.

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post #126 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you asking about yellow-fluffy vs. pink-fluffy insulation? If so, just get whatever is cheaper.

Traditionally, I think most people would think of yellow as OC-703 and pink as pink-fluffy insulation. If that's the case, I want to know where you're getting your cheap OC-703.
Yes, yellow and pink fluffy.

Mendards has the yellow fluffy really cheap, so i'll just get that.
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post #127 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 02:52 PM
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Yes, yellow and pink fluffy.

Mendards has the yellow fluffy really cheap, so i'll just get that.

Even with fluffy insulation I think you still need to pay attention to R values. There is TONS of information over on Gearslutz about this. I used R13 for behind my straddling ceiling to wall corner traps.
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post #128 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 03:04 PM
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Even with fluffy insulation I think you still need to pay attention to R values. There is TONS of information over on Gearslutz about this. I used R13 for behind my straddling ceiling to wall corner traps.
>R value = thicker insulation. Not too tough.

For putting into your ceiling, R19 is about as much as you need. The returns start to diminish with anything thicker.

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post #129 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 03:12 PM
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^^^ it's different for acoustics. Thicker isn't always better and vice cersa.

This is where listening to one advisor really pays off and simplifies the decision making process.

For acoustics, I was advised, the thicker the pink fluffy the better. Don't crush it, nice and loose.
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post #130 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 03:27 PM
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^^^ it's different for acoustics. Thicker isn't always better and vice cersa.

This is where listening to one advisor really pays off and simplifies the decision making process.

For acoustics, I was advised, the thicker the pink fluffy the better. Don't crush it, nice and loose.
So, are you saying he should listen to you and ignore everybody else? That's some pretty impressive hubris.

If you want credentials, fine. The R19 recommendation is from Ted White here, here, and here.
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post #131 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 04:18 PM
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So, are you saying he should listen to you and ignore everybody else? That's some pretty impressive hubris.

If you want credentials, fine. The R19 recommendation is from Ted White here, here, and here.
I didnt once say he should listen to me or only me. Those are your words and I have no clue why you would say them.

Further, it has nothing to do with credntials. Many different experts in the field have credentials yet each have a different way of approaching a project.

With acoustics I found it best to find one professional and stick with him from start to finish. JMO YMMY
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post #132 of 226 Old 08-06-2014, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I was going to do R19 anyway.
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post #133 of 226 Old 08-16-2014, 04:16 PM
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how far away are we from the tongue and groove paneling over the HVAC vent? Dying to see
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post #134 of 226 Old 08-17-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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how far away are we from the tongue and groove paneling over the HVAC vent? Dying to see
I don't think i'm going with a wood ceiling anymore. I'm almost finished stuffing the entire ceiling with R19 denim, and covering it with a reflective wood ceiling would be a waste of all that nice sound absorption!

I may go with cloth panels instead. Non-reflective, and far less material to cause squeaks and rattles.

Anyone have any objections that i'm overlooking?
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post #135 of 226 Old 08-18-2014, 02:06 AM
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I don't think i'm going with a wood ceiling anymore. I'm almost finished stuffing the entire ceiling with R19 denim, and covering it with a reflective wood ceiling would be a waste of all that nice sound absorption!

I may go with cloth panels instead. Non-reflective, and far less material to cause squeaks and rattles.

Anyone have any objections that i'm overlooking?
same concept though, right? just different material.
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post #136 of 226 Old 08-18-2014, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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same concept though, right? just different material.
Yes.
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post #137 of 226 Old 09-12-2014, 10:33 AM
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Yes.
hey man you still alive out there? radio silence for a month!
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post #138 of 226 Old 09-12-2014, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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hey man you still alive out there? radio silence for a month!
Ha!

I've been enjoying a break from building anything. Whatever i'm going to do with the ceiling I need to just decide and get it done.
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post #139 of 226 Old 09-13-2014, 03:55 PM
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Ha!

I've been enjoying a break from building anything. Whatever i'm going to do with the ceiling I need to just decide and get it done.
I used 6 rolls of the pink fluffy in my open-top soffits and they knocked down the boominess of the subs and killed most of the echoes of the room. These were non-measured echoes bad enough that you could even hear while talking, so they were pretty bad before the stuffing. Your ceiling is low like my basement, so not much space to work with there. Archaea used some black acoustical drop ceiling panels in his build that he is pretty happy with and they were really cheap. He talks about it a bit in his thread and I think the source also. You could hang strips of two rows deep of r19 all the way across the back wall and build an AT wall of black fabric panels like the guys use to black out the sides of their screens. Treating that back wall is important and this would be pretty cheap to do and not take up too much space.

I'm doing a similar plan as yours for my basement HT because the clips and Green Glue and expensive panels and such just don't fit in our budget or space. It looks good so far - keep on truckin'!
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post #140 of 226 Old 09-14-2014, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I used 6 rolls of the pink fluffy in my open-top soffits and they knocked down the boominess of the subs and killed most of the echoes of the room. These were non-measured echoes bad enough that you could even hear while talking, so they were pretty bad before the stuffing. Your ceiling is low like my basement, so not much space to work with there. Archaea used some black acoustical drop ceiling panels in his build that he is pretty happy with and they were really cheap. He talks about it a bit in his thread and I think the source also. You could hang strips of two rows deep of r19 all the way across the back wall and build an AT wall of black fabric panels like the guys use to black out the sides of their screens. Treating that back wall is important and this would be pretty cheap to do and not take up too much space.

I'm doing a similar plan as yours for my basement HT because the clips and Green Glue and expensive panels and such just don't fit in our budget or space. It looks good so far - keep on truckin'!
I'm almost done stuffing R19 denim in all the floor joists above, and that's helped quite a bit.

The two layers of R19 on the back wall is a good idea, i'll definitely do that. Cheap and easy.

As for the suspended ceiling...my last HT had one, and it was TERRIBLE. Tons of those shrill metal rattles from the frame, and the tiles would literally jump and bounce around when the deep bass would hit. Are the new ones better?
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post #141 of 226 Old 09-14-2014, 05:52 PM
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I noticed some rattles when demoing Archaea's HT and tracked them down. They were all where the old ceiling tiles were, and no rattles came from the area of new tiles. He hadn't replaced all of them yet. I get the idea of using the drop ceiling tiles in case you have a leak from upstairs or need access to wires, but I prefer the look of a finished drywall and trimmed out ceiling. You can instead cover your future wiring upgrade needs by running a PVC wire scuttle from the area of the PJ to the soffits, along the soffits, etc.
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post #142 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 02:57 AM
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This area, roughly 13x26 is going to be my dedicated theater space. I had a dumpster delivered today so the remodel just began for the entire basement.





Here's what's going to be in there for subs:



My question is about that main wall and the rear wall I'll be putting in. I need to beef these things up...big time.

On my old system, quad LMS 5400s, here's what the wall would do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO_wJIst0xI

Well, I've over doubled the 15-30hz output since then, and that wall, which is a supporting wall and very solid already, moves WAY more during some spirited demos...

The other two walls are obviously concrete, but what can I do to make the other two wall as sturdy as possible?

Double up on 5/8" drywall? Anything I can fill the wall with?

I'm looking for ideas, I don't care how crazy!
can you take matching shots to these before pictures? I'm confused where the front and rear of the theater is. Also how far do your soffits reach left to right? I think your issue is even more pronounced than mine.
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post #143 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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can you take matching shots to these before pictures? I'm confused where the front and rear of the theater is. Also how far do your soffits reach left to right? I think your issue is even more pronounced than mine.
Is the first picture, where my squat rack is at the end of the room, is now where the stage is for the rear seating that is up on the step.

In the second picture, where the shop vac is, is now where the rear 2x6 wall is that has all the subs stacked up near it.
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post #144 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:40 AM
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Is the first picture, where my squat rack is at the end of the room, is now where the stage is for the rear seating that is up on the step.

In the second picture, where the shop vac is, is now where the rear 2x6 wall is that has all the subs stacked up near it.
what did you end up doing with all those pipes running next to the ductwork? I have almost the exact same issue.
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post #145 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I noticed some rattles when demoing Archaea's HT and tracked them down. They were all where the old ceiling tiles were, and no rattles came from the area of new tiles. He hadn't replaced all of them yet. I get the idea of using the drop ceiling tiles in case you have a leak from upstairs or need access to wires, but I prefer the look of a finished drywall and trimmed out ceiling. You can instead cover your future wiring upgrade needs by running a PVC wire scuttle from the area of the PJ to the soffits, along the soffits, etc.
I went through his thread and he's using the Certainteed "Theater Black f" tiles. A pack of (16) 2'x4' tiles is around $115, and I need almost exactly 48, so three boxes should work out really well.

This seem perfect, since they also absorb a small amount sound, that all that R19 I stuffed in the joists will be put to good use.

To cut down on any rattles, I'll build the center frame that will support the tiles going down the center of the room out of wood, so there won't be any metal-on-metal contact.
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post #146 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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what did you end up doing with all those pipes running next to the ductwork? I have almost the exact same issue.
They're still there, but I'm putting a drop ceiling in that will cover them.
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post #147 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:48 AM
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They're still there, but I'm putting a drop ceiling in that will cover them.
really want to drive up and see all this
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post #148 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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really want to drive up and see all this
If you're ever in the area or just want to make the drive, I'm always willing to give a demo or talk about construction.

I need to finish the ceiling soon before other stuff (new massive main speakers), so I'm making this a priority.
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post #149 of 226 Old 09-18-2014, 10:52 AM
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If you're ever in the area or just want to make the drive, I'm always willing to give a demo or talk about construction.

I need to finish the ceiling soon before other stuff (new massive main speakers), so I'm making this a priority.
yah I'm not even going to make it into Wisconsin let alone Minnesota any time soon but thanks for the offer.
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post #150 of 226 Old 09-23-2014, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to source the Theater Black ceiling tiles from a local distributor, but most were quoting about $208 for a box of 16 tiles...

I finally found a place that had them for $104 a box like Archaea found them for, but I was surprised most places were charging double!
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