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post #271 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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None of the above? Thanks for peeing in my corn flakes ecrabb! :-). Majority rules so Blue Plum it is.

Thanks for the input everyone!
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post #272 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 05:10 PM
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How far in front of the LP are you guys talking about with the surrounds?
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post #273 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Two rows of seats with 4 surrounds - two speakers per row. Speakers slightly in front of listening position - 6 inches or so.
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post #274 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 05:37 PM
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I like the Blue Plum also.
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post #275 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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What a difference a day makes...lots of progress today and expect the stage and riser to be completed in a couple days. Spent some time buying conduit for the runs from the equipment room to the stage and also scheduled the sand to be delivered tomorrow.




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post #276 of 1173 Old 02-11-2014, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Two rows of seats with 4 surrounds - two speakers per row. Speakers slightly in front of listening position - 6 inches or so.

Thanks!
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post #277 of 1173 Old 02-12-2014, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Two rows of seats with 4 surrounds - two speakers per row. Speakers slightly in front of listening position - 6 inches or so.

When I did my theater, I followed the popular THX and Dolby charts for where to place the surround channels, and they were never "in front" of the first row listening area...




What is leading you towards putting them a few inches in front of the front listening area?

Keep in mind that I am by no means criticizing, I am just looking for why people are doing things differently than "normal" as it may actually be better in the experience. Sort of like being totally enveloped in an awesome surround field in my 2nd row of seats, but the front row isn't as "awesome."
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post #278 of 1173 Old 02-12-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

How far in front of the LP are you guys talking about with the surrounds?

In my previous theater my side surrounds were a few inches in front of my listening position. I liked the sound. In my remodel my side surrounds are 90 degrees to the sides of my LP. I guess I just consider them "in front" because normally most surrounds are behind the listeners a tad. But like Nick's graphic shows, my side surrounds are directly off to the sides in my remodeled room.
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post #279 of 1173 Old 02-12-2014, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I was going to follow the recommendation that I received from the Erskine Group and put the side surrounds behind the LP but after talking with Nyal and other trusted advisers I'm willing to give the front position a try.
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post #280 of 1173 Old 02-12-2014, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: progress on the soffit, riser construction in the equipment room (to make it level with back riser in theater) and finished the stage frame. The stage is ready for sand - anyone want to help carry 2100 pounds of sand this weekend?

Apologies for the bad iPhone pics:



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post #281 of 1173 Old 02-12-2014, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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post #282 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 05:47 AM
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Man, it's coming along very quickly now!!
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post #283 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Update: progress on the soffit, riser construction in the equipment room (to make it level with back riser in theater) and finished the stage frame. The stage is ready for sand - anyone want to help carry 2100 pounds of sand this weekend?

Apologies for the bad iPhone pics:


Nice progress!

What is this picture showing?

As for the sand, I would help but:
1) I live in Marion, IA
2) I get the job of driving from Dubuque to Augusta Georgia tomorrow (straight through) with a 26 foot moving truck that took 8 people to load last night and will be just 2 of us unloading on Saturday. At least it is all going into storage for now, but this is for my parents and they have some heavy crap (and they gave away TONS of furniture, threw away enough stuff to FILL a 30 yard dumpster (that is HUGE), and we barely fit everything in.

Oh, and I wanted to make some joking remark about iPhones in general, but I won't. biggrin.gif

EDIT: I was serious about helping too. I really would have done it.
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post #284 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

When I did my theater, I followed the popular THX and Dolby charts for where to place the surround channels, and they were never "in front" of the first row listening area...




What is leading you towards putting them a few inches in front of the front listening area?

Keep in mind that I am by no means criticizing, I am just looking for why people are doing things differently than "normal" as it may actually be better in the experience. Sort of like being totally enveloped in an awesome surround field in my 2nd row of seats, but the front row isn't as "awesome."

Take a look at Toole's book where he talks about surround placement. The conclusions are based on psychoacoustic studies and actually show placement range from 60 to 115 degrees for the side surrounds in a 7.1 system with rear speakers. Placing the side surrounds slightly in front of the chair row also has the benefit of providing a clear sound path to listener's ears. Placing speakers right to the side can result in some shading / diffraction off people's heads closer to the surround speaker and placing behind can result in the same thing but from the chair back.

I summarize the key recommendations in this blog article: home theater surround sound speaker placement - 5.1 and 7.1 layouts

Master of Minions, Acoustic Frontiers. We specialize in the design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
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post #285 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Placing speakers right to the side can result in some shading / diffraction off people's heads closer to the surround speaker and placing behind can result in the same thing but from the chair back.

Ah. Makes some sense for sure. 90 degrees is fine if you are the only one sitting in that row, but if you are enjoying a show with a friend/family member, their noggin' gets in your way of a clear path to that audio channel.

I wonder why this isn't more commonly adopted by the big names like Dolby, THX, DTS and the like.

I wonder how this is impacted when using quadpolar speakers that don't have a front firing tweeter or woofer? Then again, maybe that is why I am getting an even better surround effect in the 2nd row... The side surrounds are actually firing one woofer right back at the 2nd row...

Well this really sucks because it isn't like I can really move my speakers without a major rework. DD+GG walls with the surrounds mounted right on the wall with *maybe* enough extra speaker wire length to move them 6" forward or so isn't going to help as that is already too much to hide behind the speaker, and pushing the wire back into the wall cavity and trying to fish it out through another hole will be pretty difficult.
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post #286 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Ah. Makes some sense for sure. 90 degrees is fine if you are the only one sitting in that row, but if you are enjoying a show with a friend/family member, their noggin' gets in your way of a clear path to that audio channel.

I wonder why this isn't more commonly adopted by the big names like Dolby, THX, DTS and the like.

I wonder how this is impacted when using quadpolar speakers that don't have a front firing tweeter or woofer? Then again, maybe that is why I am getting an even better surround effect in the 2nd row... The side surrounds are actually firing one woofer right back at the 2nd row...

Well this really sucks because it isn't like I can really move my speakers without a major rework. DD+GG walls with the surrounds mounted right on the wall with *maybe* enough extra speaker wire length to move them 6" forward or so isn't going to help as that is already too much to hide behind the speaker, and pushing the wire back into the wall cavity and trying to fish it out through another hole will be pretty difficult.

Interesting discussion. I think my M&K speakers recommend that you put the dipole speakers just to the left/right of the listener position so that it's difficult for the listener to figure out where the audio originates from and it envelopes the listener.

I have my wides I believe around the 60 degree position, and it would be an interesting test to switch them as if they are side surrounds. Although I'm not sure any of this logic would necessarily apply in an 11.2 situation.
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post #287 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Interesting discussion. I think my M&K speakers recommend that you put the dipole speakers just to the left/right of the listener position so that it's difficult for the listener to figure out where the audio originates from and it envelopes the listener.

.

That was common practice in the days of Dolby Pro Logic to diffuse the makeshift surround channels. Once 5.1 became the norm they stopped recommending dipole surrounds to take advantage of the discreet surround channels and pinpoint steering.

I still use 4 dipole speakers in the back of my 7.1 system and I love how it sounds. There are no nulls in the surround field, it's very seamless.

I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable.

The Cinema 1858 Remodel Thread
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post #288 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Nice progress!

What is this picture showing?

As for the sand, I would help but:
1) I live in Marion, IA
2) I get the job of driving from Dubuque to Augusta Georgia tomorrow (straight through) with a 26 foot moving truck that took 8 people to load last night and will be just 2 of us unloading on Saturday. At least it is all going into storage for now, but this is for my parents and they have some heavy crap (and they gave away TONS of furniture, threw away enough stuff to FILL a 30 yard dumpster (that is HUGE), and we barely fit everything in.

Oh, and I wanted to make some joking remark about iPhones in general, but I won't. biggrin.gif

EDIT: I was serious about helping too. I really would have done it.

Nick - the picture is of the front soffit. It will look a little more complete tomorrow...I'll post more pictures.
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post #289 of 1173 Old 02-13-2014, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a best practice to follow for installing conduit through the soundproof shell of a room. I've done the whole OSB - GG - drywall thing but need to drill a hole in it to get my speaker wire to the equipment room but concerned about sound escaping or entering through the conduit. What have others done?

Thanks
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post #290 of 1173 Old 02-14-2014, 04:29 AM
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When I have talked with Ted. He said the two inch hole is not big enough to worry about. He told me to use flexible conduit whenever able. He also said to seal tha round it and dw with sealant. Finally to stuff insulation in there when done pulling wires.
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post #291 of 1173 Old 02-14-2014, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Perfect. That's what I planned on doing so at least I'm thinking right smile.gif. Thanks!
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post #292 of 1173 Old 02-14-2014, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Good progress on the riser and soffit today. I'll be spending my V-Day with my wife putting stand in the stage smile.gif





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post #293 of 1173 Old 02-14-2014, 04:02 PM
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That's some romantic sh*t right there. biggrin.gif
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post #294 of 1173 Old 02-14-2014, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, what home theater geek can top that for Valentines Day??
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post #295 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 07:08 AM
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Since I'm assuming Mrs. dlbeck is running this thread now, I have to ask how many bags of sand did it take to bury Mr. dlbeck in the stage? Hope you enjoyed the rest of your Valentine's day.
Archaea and J_P_A like this.
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post #296 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 09:02 AM
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Awesome. Must be a great feeling to have it underway. Looks great and if it looks anything like the theater you are modeling it off of, it will be beautiful.

My theater build will be getting started hopefully Monday, but probably more like midweek. I have been trying to hire a contractor since October, but the work order is signed and supplies are ordered, just waiting for the guys to get here. I just hope they show up everyday and get it done.
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post #297 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 12:39 PM
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Really taking shape. Looking awesome.

Nothing says Valentine's day like hauling sand into a theater.

Hopefully after you got all the sand in place you parked an umbrella in it, two beach chairs and handed her a pina colada and piped in some audio of ocean waves to at least make it feel like you took her some place tropical and romantic. smile.gif

You got a real keeper there.
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post #298 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

Since I'm assuming Mrs. dlbeck is running this thread now, I have to ask how many bags of sand did it take to bury Mr. dlbeck in the stage? Hope you enjoyed the rest of your Valentine's day.
Ha! I carried down 3700lbs of sand and she had the pleasure of spreading the first 2000lbs out. We'll get the rest tomorrow. Where's Archaea or Popalock when you need them???
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post #299 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 03:13 PM
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Wow - I was absent for only a week - and WOW what a transformation
LOOKING GOOD!

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Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
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post #300 of 1173 Old 02-15-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: more wire ran. More sand in the stage and the riser is full of insulation. Agenda for tomorrow is to fill the soffit with insulation.

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