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post #1351 of 1372 Old 05-17-2015, 10:13 AM
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No '21:9' support. Shame.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #1352 of 1372 Old 05-18-2015, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
No '21:9' support. Shame.

Gary
Ultra HD is 3840 x 2160 so it supports '21:9' at 3840 x 1620. You have double the height and width (4x the pixels) so no more need for an anamorphic lens. With Ultra HD you can do 2880 x 1620 for 16:9 and 3840 x 1620 for 21:9. Seems like a big improvement.
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post #1353 of 1372 Old 05-18-2015, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Ultra HD is 3840 x 2160 so it supports '21:9' at 3840 x 1620. You have double the height and width (4x the pixels) so no more need for an anamorphic lens. With Ultra HD you can do 2880 x 1620 for 16:9 and 3840 x 1620 for 21:9. Seems like a big improvement.
Lol, I think you'll find zooming doesn't actually count as 21:9 'support'!

True support means with an A lens using all of the imagers pixels.

Though I agree, it's actually better than 1920 x 1080 with an anamorphic lens from the same seating distance.

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post #1354 of 1372 Old 05-23-2015, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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DesertDome made a trip to Des Moines today and we made some upgrades, ran lots of measurements and made some tweaks.

Made the following changes:

1. Upgraded the video card to a MSI GTX 970. Was a 760.
2. Installed a Hauppauge Colossus 2 card to replace the Colossus 1 (hoping to gain some stability for the television functionality)
3. Created a calibrated zone for my back row. The calibration up to this point had been focused on the money seat in the front row. Now if I want to
to sit in the back row I can play the movie in a "zone" that's been calibrated to the back row. Took lots of measurements and more filters to create in
Audiolense to get some headroom back but sounds really good in the back row.
4. Replaced the SSL AlphaLink with a MOTU 24ao. The MOTU has a really slick UI.
Two big benefits of this unit for me (more below):
A. Much quieter than the SSL. I can only hear very faint static out of the JTR's - ear within 4" of the tweeter. A huge plus with HE speakers
B. Device is networked and with an iOS app you can change your trim levels on the go. Want a little more bass or midbass Carp?...one little finger swipe
and you have it.

Other benefits of the MOTU:

Pros
1. 32 bit DAC chips for higher quality volume control (probably not really noticeable in real life, but . . .)
2. Higher SNR on outputs.
3. The MOTU DAC’s are flat to DC. No rolloff.
4. Ability to route inputs to JRiver for processing
5. Ability to route Audiolense through JRiver for measurements. This allows one to do various bass mixing in JRiver that can’t be done in Audiolense, while
still using Audiolense for final EQ.
6. #3 also allows Audiolense to take “after” measurements of its own EQ with the convolution filter loaded in JRiver.
7. Can be turned on/off with no pops in the speakers
8. Simpler installation. Just connect a USB cable. If hardware goes out, it is easier to replace.
9. Has a multi-client driver like the SSL so you can still use outputs for different zones (deck, theater, etc.)
10. Active support thread at gearslutz.com
11. Drivers are updated much more frequently (latest is from March, 2015) and there is support for Windows 8
12. Trim levels for channels can be done in the mixer software. You can use their free iPad app to control the trims. For example, you could make on the fly
adjustments to the bass level if we left headroom for that.
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post #1355 of 1372 Old 05-23-2015, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
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Want a little more bass or midbass Carp?...one little finger swipe and you have it.


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post #1356 of 1372 Old 05-24-2015, 02:20 PM
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How is the colussus 2 working out? I just ordered one with the hope of being able to route my directtv stb box thru my htpc & jriver. Then i will have all my najor sources going thru htpc with dirac eq.

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post #1357 of 1372 Old 05-24-2015, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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How is the colussus 2 working out? I just ordered one with the hope of being able to route my directtv stb box thru my htpc & jriver. Then i will have all my najor sources going thru htpc with dirac eq.
Well the Colossus 2 is working but couldn't get it to play nicely with JRiver so we need to figure that out. DesertDome was going to check to see if JRiver had issues with the 2. Perhaps he can chime in. Working well with WinTV.
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post #1358 of 1372 Old 05-24-2015, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Well the Colossus 2 is working but couldn't get it to play nicely with JRiver so we need to figure that out. DesertDome was going to check to see if JRiver had issues with the 2. Perhaps he can chime in. Working well with WinTV.
I guess i can use wintv until it gets sorted out at jriver. Probably use the jriver audio driver inside of wintv. I believe dirac will still work in wintv so all good there, although i would like to use bass management in jriver, i can apply it in the AVR.

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post #1359 of 1372 Old 06-12-2015, 02:24 PM
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What's going on with Into the Storm? It's gone from $20 to $25 and now its at $30 on Amazon? Seriously? Isn't it supposed to go the other way. I'll get it when it's closer to $10.

If anyone here is still waiting for Into the Storm to drop in price, my local Family Video has pre-viewed copies for $5 right now.


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post #1360 of 1372 Old 06-12-2015, 02:26 PM
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If anyone here is still waiting for Into the Storm to drop in price, my local Family Video has pre-viewed copies for $5 right now.
Why would anyone want VHS?
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post #1361 of 1372 Old 06-12-2015, 02:30 PM
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Why would anyone want VHS?

HA! No, they totally have it on DVD. They're with the times.

I prefer going there to Netflix. Sure you have to leave the house, but I don't mind. Call me old-fashioned. I rented two Blu-Rays and bought a 3rd yesterday for $6.50.


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post #1362 of 1372 Old 08-18-2015, 11:55 PM
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David, I have been reviewing Nyal's approach to treating your room. Until recent I didn't realize you had so much diffusion in there! I am curious about the below quotes from the treatment plan PDF you link from Acoustical Frontiers. I assume open area percentage is left open to the R-19 and the side walls to the left and right of row one have 33% of that area that is not covered with diffusion? Obviously for the approaching sound waves to be confronted with the combination of diffusion and absorption.

"Combination absorber / diffusor, 33% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"
"Combination absorber / diffusor, 50% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"

Also the ceiling wasn't included in the PDF. Was the approach just the OC 703 you hung with the Rotofast clips for the first reflection points then called it good?

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Last edited by jlpowell84; 08-19-2015 at 12:21 AM.
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post #1363 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

I'm putting 4" OC703 up in the front part of the soffit. I added a divider on my ceiling that will allow me to cover the whole front part in fabric. Saves me from having to individually wrap them plus they will be out of sight.
4" all across from side wall to side wall? I haven't handled OC703 as I made the current 4x24x48 panels from Roxul AFB. It seems like it would cause some sagging if I used it.

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post #1364 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
David, I have been reviewing Nyal's approach to treating your room. Until recent I didn't realize you had so much diffusion in there! I am curious about the below quotes from the treatment plan PDF you link from Acoustical Frontiers. I assume open area percentage is left open to the R-19 and the side walls to the left and right of row one have 33% of that area that is not covered with diffusion? Obviously for the approaching sound waves to be confronted with the combination of diffusion and absorption.

"Combination absorber / diffusor, 33% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"
"Combination absorber / diffusor, 50% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"

Also the ceiling wasn't included in the PDF. Was the approach just the OC 703 you hung with the Rotofast clips for the first reflection points then called it good?
These are slat absorber/diffusers you are referring to. The % open area is the surface area open to the absorber. The slats are arranged in a quasi-random sequence to provide diffusion. Officially speaking this is an amplitude based diffuser. It's not strictly binary because that only applies to the 50% open area absorber/diffuser. I'm developing an improved version of this slat diffuser approach that uses planks that incorporate phase based diffusers into them, and will also be more turnkey than having to cut 100s of pieces of slats out of 2x4s.


On the ceiling we just did OC703 at the LCR reflection points. This was a non-Atmos design and ceiling height and aesthetics were a concern, so we kept it light on the ceiling.
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post #1365 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
These are slat absorber/diffusers you are referring to. The % open area is the surface area open to the absorber. The slats are arranged in a quasi-random sequence to provide diffusion. Officially speaking this is an amplitude based diffuser. It's not strictly binary because that only applies to the 50% open area absorber/diffuser. I'm developing an improved version of this slat diffuser approach that uses planks that incorporate phase based diffusers into them, and will also be more turnkey than having to cut 100s of pieces of slats out of 2x4s.


On the ceiling we just did OC703 at the LCR reflection points. This was a non-Atmos design and ceiling height and aesthetics were a concern, so we kept it light on the ceiling.
Thanks Nyal! Like I have mentioned elsewhere I am taking a good look at the Savoy to learn how to properly treat a room and not throw a LEDE approach many do without thinking much about it. What percentage of diffusion to absorption would you say you designed in the Savoy?

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post #1366 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Thanks Nyal! Like I have mentioned elsewhere I am taking a good look at the Savoy to learn how to properly treat a room and not throw a LEDE approach many do without thinking much about it. What percentage of diffusion to absorption would you say you designed in the Savoy?
% diffusion or % absorption is not something that I expressly consider as a design goal.


Primary design goals are minimizing room modes and management of early reflections (not simply absorption of early reflections). Early reflection management depends on many things, including speaker off axis response, level of reflection relative to direct sound, direction of reflection relative to direct sound, surround approach (spatial audio vs standard surround).


Secondary design goals are management of late reflected sounds (some call this reverberation). Many acousticians use T60 as the primary design goal. This might be a good approach in large rooms such as auditoriums or cinemas but should not be the primary design goal in home theaters because the impact of room mode resonances and early reflections is much, much greater.
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post #1367 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
David, I have been reviewing Nyal's approach to treating your room. Until recent I didn't realize you had so much diffusion in there! I am curious about the below quotes from the treatment plan PDF you link from Acoustical Frontiers. I assume open area percentage is left open to the R-19 and the side walls to the left and right of row one have 33% of that area that is not covered with diffusion? Obviously for the approaching sound waves to be confronted with the combination of diffusion and absorption.

"Combination absorber / diffusor, 33% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"
"Combination absorber / diffusor, 50% open area, slat style, over R19 Ultratouch"

Also the ceiling wasn't included in the PDF. Was the approach just the OC 703 you hung with the Rotofast clips for the first reflection points then called it good?
Hey Jlpowell

I built the front soffit with a ledge so I could set the 4" OC703 right on the ledge without any clips. I then built fabric panels just like I used on the walls to hide the OC703 - you can see these installed here: The Savoy

I only used the rotofast clips to install the bass traps behind the screen as shown here: The Savoy

Also, slide 15 on post #5 shows you a picture of the sketches that I had to build the hanging bass traps. The Savoy

Clear as mud?
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post #1368 of 1372 Old 08-19-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
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Hey Jlpowell

I built the front soffit with a ledge so I could set the 4" OC703 right on the ledge without any clips. I then built fabric panels just like I used on the walls to hide the OC703 - you can see these installed here: The Savoy

I only used the rotofast clips to install the bass traps behind the screen as shown here: The Savoy

Also, slide 15 on post #5 shows you a picture of the sketches that I had to build the hanging bass traps. The Savoy

Clear as mud?
Yep I get it now I like it as I don't want to end up with a room looking like an advertisement for room treatments. You definitely have some creative ways of hiding treatments. Although I may tinker with some painted exposed diffusion as if done right with colors and theme I think it can look good.

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post #1369 of 1372 Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Had the pleasure of hosting @desertdome this weekend to perform some fine tuning of the Savoy from an audio perspective. And on the video side, DesertDome did a full calibration of my Sony 55ES.

So a quick summary of the audio changes: since I replaced my SSL MCh DAC with the MOTU 24AO I lost a good chunk of headroom because we didn't have time to tweak all the target frequency responses in Audiolense. To shave some of the peaks off the surround channel FR, we had to lower the output of the system so the curves were flat for all channels. We also made a few changes to the crossover for the S2 to the MBM's. In the end, we picked up 12dB of total headroom. Enough to even satisfy Carp .

DesertDome also setup a zone in JRiver customized for the back row of seats. We took a separate set of measurements from the back row and tailored the FR curve and volume levels for all channels for the back row. So if I sit in the front row I can watch movies from the "Front Row" zone and if I want to sit in the back row I can watch movies in the "Back Row" zone. Pretty slick. He also set the lip sync delay for each zone.

On the video side DesertDome did a full video calibration. It has been over a year since Jeff Meier did a video calibration and I had 684 hours accumulated on the current bulb. I've lost quite a bit of lumens since last June. My colors were off quite a bit and DesertDome dialed my blacks in. Looks really good....so if anyone is looking for a video calibration I know who you can call. He may post some more details later.

The Savoy sounds and looks better than ever! Thanks DesertDome!!!
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post #1370 of 1372 Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
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Woah, picked up 12 db's of headroom!?!?! Jonathan, Doug and I cranked up some of the scenes to +10 last time we were there. It sounded completely clean and AMAZING.

Are you saying you have 12 more db's of headroom then when we were there in April? Holy schnikeeees.
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post #1371 of 1372 Unread Today, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Woah, picked up 12 db's of headroom!?!?! Jonathan, Doug and I cranked up some of the scenes to +10 last time we were there. It sounded completely clean and AMAZING.

Are you saying you have 12 more db's of headroom then when we were there in April? Holy schnikeeees.
No, I switched to the MOTU after the KC crawl so that was after you guys visited. I would say it's only 2-3 dB on top of what you guys heard in March.
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post #1372 of 1372 Unread Today, 10:13 AM
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No, I switched to the MOTU after the KC crawl so that was after you guys visited. I would say it's only 2-3 dB on top of what you guys heard in March.
Gotcha. It's not like we felt like we were getting close to the limits of the system though so I'm betting it could have easily gone above +10 even before the added 2-3 db's of headroom.
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