The Savoy - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1113 Old 01-28-2014, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Another question: I've been thinking about making the soffit a bass trap by filling it full of insulation and apply fabric on the underside. Of course this creates construction complications. Is the pain worth the gain? I've read about the benefits but want to make sure before I commit to it. Thanks.
dlbeck is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1113 Old 01-28-2014, 05:54 PM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 206
What did your original acoustic plan from Dennis call for?

I must admit, when it comes to tinkering with the room's acoustical performance, the professional route is really the only way to go. Without professional analysis, everything else is just guesswork IMHO.
TMcG is offline  
post #183 of 1113 Old 01-28-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Shawn told me they usually stay away from any ceiling treatments unless specifically requested. Since then I've read about some good results with others doing it so wondering if it's worth it or, like you said, guesswork.
dlbeck is offline  
post #184 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 02:07 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Unless you have the professional acoustic analysis software and know how to input and interpret the results, diving into specific placement and types of acoustic panels becomes almost total guesswork. This was almost the entire reason I bought Dennis' package, which was to have the professional acoustic analysis done for my room.

That being said, there are a handful of "rules" about the percentage of hard vs. absorptive surfaces and generalized "dos and don'ts"....none of which will be specific to your room. I've heard Dennis say that the room itself represents more that 50% of what you actually hear, so it is one of the most critical aspects of your theater to get right and extract all the equipment performance you paid for.
TMcG is offline  
post #185 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Well as I've mentioned before I had a disagreement with EG plus the Quest panels were over my budget. So now looking at a DIY method. I've worked with Bryan Pape at GIK in the past. Or I could hire someone like Nyal Mellor to do a full blown acoustical analysis in the room and take another pro shot at it. I've also worked with Nyal in the past as well.
dlbeck is offline  
post #186 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 04:18 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 206
I know. But your chances of getting it right via DIY without a professional is low. There are alternatives to virtually every Quest product, including the Q-Perf, they just have slightly different mechanisms of action. You could then just take the Quest layout you've already paid for and find suitable alternative products for each type of panel and location, with minimal tweaks to optimize for the other manufacturer's product. Just a thought.

I believe GIK's design is included with a committed purchase of materials. Nyal is very good and the other alternative would be Keith Yates Design, http://www.keithyates.com/.
TMcG is offline  
post #187 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 06:29 AM
Senior Member
 
thrillcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Well as I've mentioned before I had a disagreement with EG plus the Quest panels were over my budget. So now looking at a DIY method. I've worked with Bryan Pape at GIK in the past. Or I could hire someone like Nyal Mellor to do a full blown acoustical analysis in the room and take another pro shot at it. I've also worked with Nyal in the past as well.

You're in Des Moines, perhaps for a happy medium you should talk to Matt Sepanic at Sonic Factory Studios. He's been involved in building several recording studios around Central Iowa, and he's a super nice guy, knows his stuff. He might be willing to help out.

I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable.

The Cinema 1858 Remodel Thread
thrillcat is offline  
post #188 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 03:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Another question: I've been thinking about making the soffit a bass trap by filling it full of insulation and apply fabric on the underside. Of course this creates construction complications. Is the pain worth the gain? I've read about the benefits but want to make sure before I commit to it. Thanks.
Both Ethan Winer and Glenn Kuras feel that soffit bass traps are beneficial:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan 
Without being there to measure, or even knowing the size of your room, I can't even guess. But I bet you know the answer already anyway: The more bass trapping you have, the flatter and tighter the low end will be. It's really that simple. So a little bass trapping will give a little improvement, and a lot will give a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie 
The rule of thumb in my book is no less then 4" (2'x4' panel) of rigid fiberglass straddling the corner. From there you can go wider, thicker or fill the area with triangles floor to ceiling. If you want to go one step further you can go with soffit bass traps which I believe is the best, but not cheap and or easy to build. Here is a layout with triangle bass traps floor to ceiling (wall to wall corners) and soffit traps in the ceiling to wall corners around the room.

Shawn Byrne said:
Quote:
Depends how you build them. They can be effective, but there is something else in the room that can be better! The riser. wink.gif

There are basic acoustic principles that can be applied to every theater construction project. The difficulty is in determining the absorption coefficients of various materials and designs. The professionals use modeling software that I don't think can account for things such as soffit bass traps, DIY materials, custom stage/riser sizes, etc. The rooms are designed using know products (Quest), known dimensions, and a standard riser/stage layout. Once you deviate from these, then the model doesn't work as well. Without the ability to predict what will happen, I think some might be hesitant to make recommendations even though standard acoustic principles will still apply.

One example is FoLLgoTT's Single Bass Array with subs up front and heavy absorption in the rear. He achieves almost perfect bass response with very little EQ. I haven't seen any professional builds utilize this method. Its probably because it can't be modeled in their current software.
desertdome is offline  
post #189 of 1113 Old 01-29-2014, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Starting to make some good progress on the house and the theater. Insulation facing has been sliced smile.gif and OSB is up for the most part. Still researching the soffit bass trap. Green glue and drywall going up soon.

Picture of the front of the theater (screen wall)



Picture of the rear toward the equipment room
dlbeck is offline  
post #190 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 07:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 63
LOOKING GOOD!
and FWIW on your soffit question;

I followed Ethan Winner's advice and utilized lots of bass trapping up front in my HT (floor-ceiling super-chunks up front, and stuffed the front wall-ceiling soffit, above my screen)
I wish I would have also utilized GOM and stuffing in my side soffits.

I say go for it - IMO - You cannot have enough bass-trapping in the corner intersections.
I could be wrong; but I have yet to hear of anyone hurting their room acoustics by bass-trapping corner intersections.

I suspect others will chime in.....

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #191 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mcascio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kenosha, WI USA
Posts: 3,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 65
It is always exciting to see the OSB go up. The room really starts to take shape.
mcascio is offline  
post #192 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 10:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nickbuol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Marion, Iowa
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 201
I've always meant to ask, why OSB for the first layer? Seems to be a mixed bag as to who does what... Double drywall vs OSB+drywall. The OSB costs more, and at .3/4" thick is still (just slightly) less dense than 5/8" drywall.

To top it off, OSB costs more and needs to be cut with a saw.

I found THIS THREAD about comparing them, and even Ted White says that (in post #4) when using Green Glue, having the two layers of same density drywall is optimal for dampening (but noted later that OSB/Drywall vs Drywall/Drywall is only a small difference).

Is it all about the ease of being able to hang the drywall without worry of missing the stud? I know that was something that I considered when I did my room 2 years ago, but our inspection and code here says that the drywall must be secured to a stud (or hat channel), and multilayers must have a certain length screw for the top layer, and certain screw spacing, etc. So to meet code I had to use longer screws and have 16" OC studs for interior walls, etc so the the advantage of OSB and being able to screw anywhere didn't apply to what I was allowed to do.

Are there other benefits to OSB? I still love to learn more and more, even though my room has pretty much been done for 2 years and I am certainly not looking to build/rebuild another anytime soon.

Thanks!
nickbuol is offline  
post #193 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 10:43 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 206
I'll be going with 5/8" OSB / GG / 5/8" drywall for the convenience of having a secure attachment point anywhere I want in the room with only the slightest difference in overall soundproofing. To me, it's worth giving up that last little percent of absolute soundproofing from the difference in mass.

I must admit, I've never heard about inspectors getting that involved with the drywall like your inspectors. Here, the inspector gives the "OK" to close things up and the next time an inspector is back is long after all the board has been hung and the plaster work is complete.
TMcG is offline  
post #194 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nickbuol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Marion, Iowa
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 201
They do a pretty solid drywall inspection here. They can see the thick (staggered stud for me) wall before drywall, and then they note that it will have two layers in the room. They literally count the number of screws, and measure the spacing for a few sheets and then make sure that the others look the same. They even pull out a couple of random screws to make sure that they are long enough and of the right type.

For me I was just super happy to pass all of the inspections first shot as thorough as they are here as I was finishing my entire basement so I had all of the electrical, plus moved plumbing for the bath, added a window, so on.
nickbuol is offline  
post #195 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 02:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcascio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kenosha, WI USA
Posts: 3,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 65
The OSB really works out nice when putting in the trim, crown, chair rails, attach moldings and lots of other items. I'd highly recommend a first layer of OSB.
HuskerOmaha likes this.
mcascio is offline  
post #196 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
I did quite a bit if research on the DD VS OSB/drywall and in the end it came down to the advantages that Tim and Mario mention above and giving up a small amount of benefit.
dlbeck is offline  
post #197 of 1113 Old 01-30-2014, 07:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nickbuol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Marion, Iowa
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

I did quite a bit if research on the DD VS OSB/drywall and in the end it came down to the advantages that Tim and Mario mention above and giving up a small amount of benefit.

Cool. I always wondered. So you pay a little more, and have more work up front cutting it, but when it comes time to get the "extra" stuff and even second layer up, it makes it a LOT easier? Works for me.

Thanks guys! Carry on... Carry on...
nickbuol is offline  
post #198 of 1113 Old 01-31-2014, 07:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

There are basic acoustic principles that can be applied to every theater construction project. The difficulty is in determining the absorption coefficients of various materials and designs. The professionals use modeling software that I don't think can account for things such as soffit bass traps, DIY materials, custom stage/riser sizes, etc. The rooms are designed using know products (Quest), known dimensions, and a standard riser/stage layout. Once you deviate from these, then the model doesn't work as well. Without the ability to predict what will happen, I think some might be hesitant to make recommendations even though standard acoustic principles will still apply.

One example is FoLLgoTT's Single Bass Array with subs up front and heavy absorption in the rear. He achieves almost perfect bass response with very little EQ. I haven't seen any professional builds utilize this method. Its probably because it can't be modeled in their current software.

The challenge is balancing the different elements in the theater to deliver the end results. One cannot just apply all the 'rules of thumb' seen on AVS (soffit traps, riser traps, use 1" linacoustic, no use 2" linacoustic with a poly sheet inbetween, no use 4" minimum absorbers everywhere...and the rest of them!) and expect a superb end result.

When you are aiming for very good all the design elements have to be considered together. For example designing a multi-sub array to cancel all axial room mode activity in the sub's passband (below 80Hz typically) and using a double drywall / green glue wall on channel and clips as a bass trap (yes the wall becomes a very good bass trap under 60Hz) together with designing in a suitable digital signal processor from the get go (yes it's fine to EQ if seat to seat variability is low, which is achieved through the multi-sub design) will mean that no special effort is needed in adding acoustical treatment to 'trap' bass below 100hz.

Another example is in the high frequencies. What we hear is some combination of direct + early reflected + late reflected sound. Different speaker designs will throw out different amounts of energy in the high frequencies and therefore have different issues that need addressing. JTRs, for example, have very narrow high frequency dispersion due to the waveguide (they don't publish their numbers but I know the waveguide they are using and it is around 60 degrees from memory....not all waveguided speakers have that narrow a pattern, Procella's for example are 80 degrees horizontal). It would be very easy to overdeaden a room with this type of speaker - ideally the acoustic design for such a room wants to keep as much energy in the late reflected field as possible. Contrast this with the off axis performance of a wide dispersion speaker such as a cone/dome and one would have a very different approach to the overall acoustic treatment design, with more absorption outside the major reflection points in the room. The acoustic treatment design for the frequencies above the room's modal area (300Hz for sake of argument) starts, or should start, from the speaker outward. Anyone using the same design and approach for speakers as different as Triads and Procellas is not taking into account the speaker's off axis performance. Speaker outwards!

Unfortunately there is no magic single 'home theater acoustic modeling software'. What we have is a collection of tools that can be used to predict results. Optimally we would do some combination of low frequency modeling using either a basic room mode calculator or boundary element modeling software, reflection point analysis using ray tracing, speaker boundary interference analysis using mostly proprietary in house tools (Excel spreadsheets in my case), T60 estimators, real on / off axis measurements of the speakers in use, geometric modeling of the speaker / room interaction, WOW this is a long list and I don't think I've captured everything either!

Of course all of us designers latch on to things that seem to work well and reuse them as design elements in future projects. That's real world experience.
doublewing11 likes this.

Master of Minions, Acoustic Frontiers. We specialize in the design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
post #199 of 1113 Old 01-31-2014, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Update: Moving right along today with completion of the OSB install. Also, finally turned the heat on in the house!!! Definitely a must before we start drywalling with Green Glue tomorrow.

Speedloader cocked and ready to roll!



Last chance to see the OSB layer:

dlbeck is offline  
post #200 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 12:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post


Last chance to see the OSB layer:


If that room was padded it would be perfect for me. Uh, what was I saying? Never mind, move along, nothing to see here. smile.gif. Nice progress!
dgage is offline  
post #201 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

If that room was padded it would be perfect for me. Uh, what was I saying? Never mind, move along, nothing to see here. smile.gif. Nice progress!

Funny, my wife said the same thing about me :-)
dlbeck is offline  
post #202 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 07:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,819
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

The challenge is balancing the different elements in the theater to deliver the end results. One cannot just apply all the 'rules of thumb' seen on AVS (soffit traps, riser traps, use 1" linacoustic, no use 2" linacoustic with a poly sheet inbetween, no use 4" minimum absorbers everywhere...and the rest of them!) and expect a superb end result.

When you are aiming for very good all the design elements have to be considered together. For example designing a multi-sub array to cancel all axial room mode activity in the sub's passband (below 80Hz typically) and using a double drywall / green glue wall on channel and clips as a bass trap (yes the wall becomes a very good bass trap under 60Hz) together with designing in a suitable digital signal processor from the get go (yes it's fine to EQ if seat to seat variability is low, which is achieved through the multi-sub design) will mean that no special effort is needed in adding acoustical treatment to 'trap' bass below 100hz.

Another example is in the high frequencies. What we hear is some combination of direct + early reflected + late reflected sound. Different speaker designs will throw out different amounts of energy in the high frequencies and therefore have different issues that need addressing. JTRs, for example, have very narrow high frequency dispersion due to the waveguide (they don't publish their numbers but I know the waveguide they are using and it is around 60 degrees from memory....not all waveguided speakers have that narrow a pattern, Procella's for example are 80 degrees horizontal). It would be very easy to overdeaden a room with this type of speaker - ideally the acoustic design for such a room wants to keep as much energy in the late reflected field as possible. Contrast this with the off axis performance of a wide dispersion speaker such as a cone/dome and one would have a very different approach to the overall acoustic treatment design, with more absorption outside the major reflection points in the room. The acoustic treatment design for the frequencies above the room's modal area (300Hz for sake of argument) starts, or should start, from the speaker outward. Anyone using the same design and approach for speakers as different as Triads and Procellas is not taking into account the speaker's off axis performance. Speaker outwards!

Unfortunately there is no magic single 'home theater acoustic modeling software'. What we have is a collection of tools that can be used to predict results. Optimally we would do some combination of low frequency modeling using either a basic room mode calculator or boundary element modeling software, reflection point analysis using ray tracing, speaker boundary interference analysis using mostly proprietary in house tools (Excel spreadsheets in my case), T60 estimators, real on / off axis measurements of the speakers in use, geometric modeling of the speaker / room interaction, WOW this is a long list and I don't think I've captured everything either!

Of course all of us designers latch on to things that seem to work well and reuse them as design elements in future projects. That's real world experience.




Nyal, are you saying that the front wall should not be treated? I have JTR's with the 60 degree dispersion pattern (same speakers as dlbeck) and have been contemplating going AT and treating the front wall.

Currently I have:

2 GIK panels on each side wall for first reflection from each main speaker
Gront corner GIK tri traps from floor to ceiling
3 GIK panels on my ceiling half way between my main LP and the LRC speakers


My priority (belive it or not) is 2.1 channel music. I've read more than once that a room optimized for stereo will do better with 7.1 movies than a room that is optimized for 7.1 movies will do for stereo.


David, sorry to hijack but I'm very curious about this! redface.gifsmile.gif
carp is offline  
post #203 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

The challenge is balancing the different elements in the theater to deliver the end results. One cannot just apply all the 'rules of thumb' seen on AVS (soffit traps, riser traps, use 1" linacoustic, no use 2" linacoustic with a poly sheet inbetween, no use 4" minimum absorbers everywhere...and the rest of them!) and expect a superb end result.

When you are aiming for very good all the design elements have to be considered together. For example designing a multi-sub array to cancel all axial room mode activity in the sub's passband (below 80Hz typically) and using a double drywall / green glue wall on channel and clips as a bass trap (yes the wall becomes a very good bass trap under 60Hz) together with designing in a suitable digital signal processor from the get go (yes it's fine to EQ if seat to seat variability is low, which is achieved through the multi-sub design) will mean that no special effort is needed in adding acoustical treatment to 'trap' bass below 100hz.

Another example is in the high frequencies. What we hear is some combination of direct + early reflected + late reflected sound. Different speaker designs will throw out different amounts of energy in the high frequencies and therefore have different issues that need addressing. JTRs, for example, have very narrow high frequency dispersion due to the waveguide (they don't publish their numbers but I know the waveguide they are using and it is around 60 degrees from memory....not all waveguided speakers have that narrow a pattern, Procella's for example are 80 degrees horizontal). It would be very easy to overdeaden a room with this type of speaker - ideally the acoustic design for such a room wants to keep as much energy in the late reflected field as possible. Contrast this with the off axis performance of a wide dispersion speaker such as a cone/dome and one would have a very different approach to the overall acoustic treatment design, with more absorption outside the major reflection points in the room. The acoustic treatment design for the frequencies above the room's modal area (300Hz for sake of argument) starts, or should start, from the speaker outward. Anyone using the same design and approach for speakers as different as Triads and Procellas is not taking into account the speaker's off axis performance. Speaker outwards!

Unfortunately there is no magic single 'home theater acoustic modeling software'. What we have is a collection of tools that can be used to predict results. Optimally we would do some combination of low frequency modeling using either a basic room mode calculator or boundary element modeling software, reflection point analysis using ray tracing, speaker boundary interference analysis using mostly proprietary in house tools (Excel spreadsheets in my case), T60 estimators, real on / off axis measurements of the speakers in use, geometric modeling of the speaker / room interaction, WOW this is a long list and I don't think I've captured everything either!

Of course all of us designers latch on to things that seem to work well and reuse them as design elements in future projects. That's real world experience.


Most excellent post...............and the truth hits like a dagger!

I was so close to purchasing Noesis 212's or Triad Plats............yet, in reality my room was designed for Triad Gold LCR's. In the end, room and design dictated speaker selection ie. room was acoustically designed for a specific speaker so ultimately I had no choice!

I'm still ticked off about that one........customer specifically requests one speaker model yet room designer specs another..........maybe out of spite? No need to go any further on that outcome.....
doublewing11 is offline  
post #204 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nickbuol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Marion, Iowa
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 201
I always wondered what people do with their speedloaders after they are done with their project. I still have mine sitting in the garage with no plans to use it for many years to come... Could have let you borrow/have it as I was in Des Moines last Wed/Thu/Fri (3 separate trips too).
nickbuol is offline  
post #205 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 10:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 151
How is that Speedloader to use? When I did a green glue project! I used the caulk guns because a few reviews said the Speedloader wasn't that good.
dgage is offline  
post #206 of 1113 Old 02-01-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Speed loader is working great but the end just came off in the GG bucket and it was a fun sticky mess to get it out :-)

dlbeck is offline  
post #207 of 1113 Old 02-02-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
dlbeck is offline  
post #208 of 1113 Old 02-02-2014, 09:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 176
I hope the weather has not slowed you down too much. Are you going to put up double drywall?

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

"Is not love not unlike the unlikely not it is unlikened to?"
- Leon Phelps
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #209 of 1113 Old 02-02-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Going with OSB - GG - drywall instead of double drywall.
HuskerOmaha likes this.
dlbeck is offline  
post #210 of 1113 Old 02-02-2014, 08:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HuskerOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I need to come over and see this thing. When is your est. move in date?
HuskerOmaha is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Tags
Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 8350 , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off