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post #361 of 1205 Old 04-05-2014, 06:13 PM
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Hey Brolic, I think this might be interesting for you... Someone in Audiogon is selling their 4 month old Whisper XDS for $12k
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-legacy-audio-whisper-xds-modified-to-vh-audio-solid-copper-cables-upgrades-with-vcaps-o-2014-04-02-speakers-15223

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post #362 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 06:52 AM
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Matt,
Audioguy brought up speaker wire and interconnect distance with your amps. You said you were gonna use XLR's so that takes care of the interconnects but as far as speaker wire goes, I would think if you used some good 10 gauge wire like from BlueJeans Cable, that you would probably not notice an audible difference. And let's be honest here, it's not like you are going to be doing blind A/B testing with the amps on display vs. behind a screen wall. I don't think you'll know whether it's affecting the sound or not if the speaker wire run is 30 feet or 5 feet once you have your room built. The other option, if you want to display your amps, is to DIY your own speaker wire. Here is the link for a low inductance speaker wire: http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/.
At the bottom of the page, you can see how it compares to the expensive silly crap like Cardas that costs $500/ft.

This of course is just a suggestion, but I think the amps should be on display. It adds something that no one else is doing with their rooms.
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post #363 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

Hey Brolic, I think this might be interesting for you... Someone in Audiogon is selling their 4 month old Whisper XDS for $12k
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-legacy-audio-whisper-xds-modified-to-vh-audio-solid-copper-cables-upgrades-with-vcaps-o-2014-04-02-speakers-15223

Thanks for this link!  Man, i might have jumped on that if it were in the budget, but right now--all my focus is going toward the room, as well as my top-secret subwoofer solution(s?) heh heh.

 

If those are still available at the end of the summer--well, now wer'e talking a nice trip from Indonesia for those speakers!

 

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Matt,
Audioguy brought up speaker wire and interconnect distance with your amps. You said you were gonna use XLR's so that takes care of the interconnects but as far as speaker wire goes, I would think if you used some good 10 gauge wire like from BlueJeans Cable, that you would probably not notice an audible difference. And let's be honest here, it's not like you are going to be doing blind A/B testing with the amps on display vs. behind a screen wall. I don't think you'll know whether it's affecting the sound or not if the speaker wire run is 30 feet or 5 feet once you have your room built. The other option, if you want to display your amps, is to DIY your own speaker wire. Here is the link for a low inductance speaker wire: http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/.
At the bottom of the page, you can see how it compares to the expensive silly crap like Cardas that costs $500/ft.

This of course is just a suggestion, but I think the amps should be on display. It adds something that no one else is doing with their rooms.

I've actually been thinking about this over the weekend. The speaker distance run to the amps would be no different than those folks who run wires to racks at the rear of their theaters We're talking 30-foot runs to the.  I'm tossing the idea back and forth, but I think I actually am leaning towards keeping them on display.  But I agree--I'd have to use some very thick speaker wire.  What I'm going to do, since I have XLR cables in 100ft and 50ft varieties, I'm going to going to just place the two speakers next to each other, have one monoblock attached with 1 meter speaker cable and the long XLR, the other speaker will be wired with the extra long speaker cable.  If I don't hear a difference, then I'll stick with the amps in display!

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post #364 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anybody have experience with multiple rows of actual, movie theater rocker chairs (as opposed to the recliners?) I’m asking because I’m wondering if I should use these, instead of recliners.  Just thinking of going a different route.

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post #365 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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I've seen pictures of some of the commercial theaters with the plush rockers and with what I consider a must have: foot rests. Altogether would probably save a foot in required length for the second row. first row it doesn't really matter. If you find the right somewhat matching chairs the first row could be full recliners and the second more upright to save a foot or so.

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post #366 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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If capacity is your goal, there's nothing better. But I think it boils down to personal preference. I prefer the typical theaters seats (Lazy Boy style) since you have more room to move around in the seat and chill for long periods. Plus they give you the option of forming loveseats / couches out of the seats whereas the ones you picked do not. I heard a rumor that wives sometimes may want to cuddle during a movie. ...smile.gif
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post #367 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does anybody have experience with multiple rows of actual, movie theater rocker chairs (as opposed to the recliners?) I’m asking because I’m wondering if I should use these, instead of recliners.  Just thinking of going a different route.

i actually considered those and like them very much bun the end i would if only been able to fit 3 across and really want the maximum amount of seating in our space so ended up going with these


believe or not they are just as comfortable as the from row is. the ones you are looking at are wider and for the price i would hope just as comfy smile.gif
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post #368 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does anybody have experience with multiple rows of actual, movie theater rocker chairs (as opposed to the recliners?) I’m asking because I’m wondering if I should use these, instead of recliners.  Just thinking of going a different route.
My room:

Recliners are great if you wanna, well, recline. Theater rockers are more comfortable to me but I like a firmer (more firm?) seat. They both serve their purpose. I love having both to choose from.
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post #369 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 03:12 PM
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I heard a rumor that wives sometimes may want to cuddle during a movie. ...smile.gif


This theater is called "The Beast, Unleashed", not "The Sleepless in Seattle Cinema". C'mon man! Get it together! biggrin.gif
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post #370 of 1205 Old 04-07-2014, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I've seen pictures of some of the commercial theaters with the plush rockers and with what I consider a must have: foot rests. Altogether would probably save a foot in required length for the second row. first row it doesn't really matter. If you find the right somewhat matching chairs the first row could be full recliners and the second more upright to save a foot or so.

Oh man--footrests kind of mess up the aesthetic I'd be going for. Hmmm, I wonder if they sell (or if I could hire company to make) footrests that slide all the way under the seat.

 

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If capacity is your goal, there's nothing better. But I think it boils down to personal preference. I prefer the typical theaters seats (Lazy Boy style) since you have more room to move around in the seat and chill for long periods. Plus they give you the option of forming loveseats / couches out of the seats whereas the ones you picked do not. I heard a rumor that wives sometimes may want to cuddle during a movie. ...smile.gif

See, i honestly like the recliners--particularly the love seats.  I've sat in those seating setups and they have been very comfortable.  i have no shame in admitting that I like the cuddling too--I just got married in January and the honeymoon shan't end! if I did the recliners, I'd have maybe five seats across the rear (across the width of the back wall) and three seats in the front row (must have the sweet spot)!

 

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i actually considered those and like them very much bun the end i would if only been able to fit 3 across and really want the maximum amount of seating in our space so ended up going with these


believe or not they are just as comfortable as the from row is. the ones you are looking at are wider and for the price i would hope just as comfy smile.gif

Those look really nice! Hmmmm--maybe I'll mix it up too in the rear and front rows.  I like that look, Rich.

 

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My room:

Recliners are great if you wanna, well, recline. Theater rockers are more comfortable to me but I like a firmer (more firm?) seat. They both serve their purpose. I love having both to choose from.

Score two for the theater seats in the rear and recliners up front.  i may really go this route after seeing Rich's and your seating config.   i remember visiting Rich's room and not even realizing the rear room was different until he pointed it out.

 

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This theater is called "The Beast, Unleashed", not "The Sleepless in Seattle Cinema". C'mon man! Get it together! biggrin.gif

Well, after cuddling while watching the right chick flick, a different beast would be unleashed, keeping us both sleepless in Seattle Maryland. lolol. ;)

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post #371 of 1205 Old 04-08-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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They just HAD to show that Roxy 2.0 theater on the home page…..now, I’m in love with the glass doors allowing a view into the theater.  How can I implement something similar? Does see-through rubber material exist for doors?  Seems like it might be an absorbent material for sound--equal or similar to mass of a solic-core dore? (judging from the mass of my favorite rubber ball that I owned as a child :D )

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post #372 of 1205 Old 04-08-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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For anyone wondering why I was (and may still be) willing to spend the $ necessary to move that bathroom, the below would be the resulting space:

 

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post #373 of 1205 Old 04-08-2014, 02:03 PM
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And that space would be utilized for what? Ballroom dancing? Bowling!! Clogging contest? Tap dance school?
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post #374 of 1205 Old 04-09-2014, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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And that space would be utilized for what? Ballroom dancing? Bowling!! Clogging contest? Tap dance school?
the plan was to make it an uber lounge, but 99.056888% sure I'm sticking with the original plan.
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post #375 of 1205 Old 04-09-2014, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does anybody have experience with multiple rows of actual, movie theater rocker chairs (as opposed to the recliners?) I’m asking because I’m wondering if I should use these, instead of recliners.  Just thinking of going a different route.

After living with my room for awhile I agree with Big. You will want a way to put your feet up. Go for theater recliners in the front row. And make sure the head rest is absolutely perfect for you to see the screen while reclined. You may need to buy something with adjustable head rest. I have electric recline and while not a necessity I will say it is very nice to be able to dial in everything to the millimeter. In short I would never go back to manual recline.

Initially I was planning to go with recliners in front and theater seats in back to save on space for the back row since my riser is not very large. I also wanted to be able to squeeze as many people in as possible. I ended up finding some great stuff on craigslist and I would encourage you to take your time with it and maybe something will come up. I ended up going with a nice 3 person leather Natuzzi couch that reclines on both ends. Wall away recline so it misses the back wall. When reclining it almost touches the front row so you do need to put the foot down to let someone in or out of the row. People often buy and sell things like this in a set. And the sold a matching reclining chair with it. It looks identical to the couch. It is on the right in the pictures. So I can fit 4 adults comfortably. And since it is a couch I could fit a few more kiddos in there too which I know will come in handy.

One thing to keep in mind. I got pretty hung up on fitting lots of people in my theater and making sure the audio/video experience was good for them. But, I would really focus on the front row and the sweet spot. Not saying you should totally neglect the other seats. But most of the time it is just me and my wife down there and the sweet spot is the only thing that matters. For those few times when I have a bunch of people over no one complains about being in any of the other less good seats or probably even realizes that the audio is even different among the seats. They all have a good time.

Here are a few pics that somebody took of my 2 rows.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510





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post #376 of 1205 Old 04-14-2014, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Grant, I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment that its the front row that truly matters. Im cooking up this idea, where I optimize for one true row of five seats across in a curved configuration, with a curved back bar...but hidden within the back bar (lightweight aluminum framing is likely foor "lift-up" characteristics) will be a row of bolt-down movie theater seats inside. The concept is to have both single row and double row options available (along with unique equalization settings for with and without the back bar in place) without being forced into any single config.
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post #377 of 1205 Old 04-14-2014, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I did the final walkthriugh recently and must say: it's going to be DIFFICULT to demo the beautiful basement room dedicated to my love of home theater. But alas, the ends justify the means.
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post #378 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking about doing a web-series for the up-coming theater build. Not sure how I'd structure such a thing, but I've got a few ideas.Thankfully, I recently upgraded to a REAL (and hideously expensive) video camera, thusly relegating the Flip HD camera to vacation use.

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post #379 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 04:34 AM
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A video log would be cool. I know I would watch it. Your system should be epic once complete.

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post #380 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 06:12 AM
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A video log would be cool. I know I would watch it. Your system should be epic once complete.

It's an excellent idea, and something no one has really done here. All of the times someone shows a few pictures of how they did something, to have an interactive video instead.... that would be excellent. If you do this, don't keep things high level, get into the down and dirty of specific things. Stuff like 1) This is how I applied green glue 2) This is how I measured and built a soffit etc etc. Explain a lot of details of things. People always ask for measurements, what screws/nails you used, where you connected things, how difficult constructed pieces were joined, etc. If you can show all of those things, it would be an amazing resource. It would also be time consuming and difficult, but a lot of people would find it very useful.
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post #381 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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A video log would be cool. I know I would watch it. Your system should be epic once complete.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by damelon View Post


It's an excellent idea, and something no one has really done here. All of the times someone shows a few pictures of how they did something, to have an interactive video instead.... that would be excellent. If you do this, don't keep things high level, get into the down and dirty of specific things. Stuff like 1) This is how I applied green glue 2) This is how I measured and built a soffit etc etc. Explain a lot of details of things. People always ask for measurements, what screws/nails you used, where you connected things, how difficult constructed pieces were joined, etc. If you can show all of those things, it would be an amazing resource. It would also be time consuming and difficult, but a lot of people would find it very useful.

Thanks for the feedback guys!  I think I'll definitely move forward with this.  Below is a loose WBS I put together for the build; I'm thinking I can capture each line of the WBS on video, but if  I should go deeper into the weeds than this, please let me know just how deep the dive should be.

 

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post #382 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 06:52 AM
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Hey Matt,
Going back to your first page you have that break down of "owned" and "planed" stuff. Some of the "planned" stuff doesn't seem essential to get the theater up and running. For ex You Red Ray player. To me, that's not needed for you to start watching movies. But stuff like Your screen and the amp for your center channel and surrounds and I know you don't need it to watch movies, but your Lumagen. Those are still listed as planned. Any time line on the rest of that stuff?

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post #383 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Matt,
Going back to your first page you have that break down of "owned" and "planed" stuff. Some of the "planned" stuff doesn't seem essential to get the theater up and running. For ex You Red Ray player. To me, that's not needed for you to start watching movies. But stuff like Your screen and the amp for your center channel and surrounds and I know you don't need it to watch movies, but your Lumagen. Those are still listed as planned. Any time line on the rest of that stuff?

Hey Mike,

 

Yup, you’re correct--there are definitely quite a few things that aren’t really necessary to start watching movies! I’ve just removed RedRay, as that seems like vaporware at this point. The Lumagen is at least a year out, so I got rid of the 4k Lumagen processor mention as well.  thanks for pointing those out to me.  No timeline yet on the other Planned items--but loosely, we're probably looking at perhaps two to three months from now.

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Hey Mike,

Yup, you’re correct--there are definitely quite a few things that aren’t really necessary to start watching movies! I’ve just removed RedRay, as that seems like vaporware at this point. The Lumagen is at least a year out, so I got rid of the 4k Lumagen processor mention as well.  thanks for pointing those out to me.  No timeline yet on the other Planned items--but loosely, we're probably looking at perhaps two to three months from now.
Yep. The Red Ray entry is gone but I am still seeing the Lumagen in there. Unless that's a different one. Two or three months is not that bad.

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post #385 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 07:24 AM
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Dreamer, Like software development, now add 20% and then double it.

Some items, stage and riser construction come after the room is drywalled. There needs to be some drywall finishing on the ceiling, priming and painting. Install doors and molding. Have carpet installed.
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post #386 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 07:29 AM
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Thanks for the feedback guys!  I think I'll definitely move forward with this.  Below is a loose WBS I put together for the build; I'm thinking I can capture each line of the WBS on video, but if  I should go deeper into the weeds than this, please let me know just how deep the dive should be.

 

 

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post #387 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 07:39 AM
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Dreamer, Like software development, now add 20% and then double it.

Some items, stage and riser construction come after the room is drywalled. There needs to be some drywall finishing on the ceiling, priming and painting. Install doors and molding. Have carpet installed.

LOL!!!

what about the quiet rock??? layer of 5/8 osb on hat channel the layer of 5/8 is the common practice i thought ? then again the curve frenzy went with i think 3 layers of 5/8 drywall.... not sure the quiet rock is worth the additional cost imo, same results or better can obtained for less $$ going with the OSB and 5/8 drywall.
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post #388 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 07:57 AM
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It's your money. If you want isolation adding two layers of 5/8 to the base layer is less money and more effective than adding a single layer of Quiet Rock. OSB is only useful if you are hanging a lot of things off the ceiling and walls, I haven't seen anything in your designs (so far) that would call for an OSB base layer. It is not a superior sound barrier.
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post #389 of 1205 Old 04-15-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Dreamer, Like software development, now add 20% and then double it.

Some items, stage and riser construction come after the room is drywalled. There needs to be some drywall finishing on the ceiling, priming and painting. Install doors and molding. Have carpet installed.

Oh, those are after drywall?  Makes sense--being wholly contained is part of the soundproofing concept!  there may not be a drop of paint used in this room; fabric on walls and ceilings with treatments beneath.  of course, this may be a pipe-dream, and I may have no choice to paint a few places in the room (I defer to you for this determination).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post
 

 

7. Get another idea, sell everything.

Ha! While representative of my general habits over the last year or so, this run feels different.  There is more of a sense of finalization here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snickers1 View Post


LOL!!!

what about the quiet rock??? layer of 5/8 osb on hat channel the layer of 5/8 is the common practice i thought ? then again the curve frenzy went with i think 3 layers of 5/8 drywall.... not sure the quiet rock is worth the additional cost imo, same results or better can obtained for less $$ going with the OSB and 5/8 drywall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

It's your money. If you want isolation adding two layers of 5/8 to the base layer is less money and more effective than adding a single layer of Quiet Rock. OSB is only useful if you are hanging a lot of things off the ceiling and walls, I haven't seen anything in your designs (so far) that would call for an OSB base layer. It is not a superior sound barrier.

Rich, Jeff,

 

i was thinking that I'd have to go the extra mile to compensate for the obstacle in the ceiling (fire sprinkler system).  If vibrations along those pipes are inevitable (unless we invent a closed sprinkler system to isolate pipes from rest of house), then I was thinking of just going the extra mile everywhere else to compensate.  Jeff, i remember particularly that we spoke about this--my memory is short. i ultimately decided that while quiet rock was a good method in its own ways, the 5/8" triple-drywall is the real deal-sealer.  Thanks for the reminder.

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Couple of other factoids via the Godfather of Green Glue, Ted White

Quiet Rock turned out to be an unsuccessful business model and they sold the equipment to one of their vendors, a drywall company.

Shipping Quiet Rock from their California Plant across country is expensive. Contractors have learned that buying drywall locally (made and shipped regionally) and applying the dampening agent in the field is more cost effective.

There were 5 companies selling factory made damped drywall, Ted consulted with 4 of the 5 companies as they evaluated using Green Glue as the dampening agent for factory made damped boards. Information from these companies indicates that they are having problems making it a successful product.

The Quiet Rock sold at Lowe's used a reduced layer of dampening agent to bring the price point down in an effort to push more product to consumers.

My Bottom line is to continue to buy locally made heavy 5/8 and apply Green Glue in the field.
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