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post #61 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm back to two rows!  Just checked out Spaceman's build, and his room is one foot longer than mine.  I'm "hoping" that I can take his approach, but just decrease the space behind the rear row (the main LP in the first row will be the chief focus anyway!)

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post #62 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 11:57 AM
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So the second row will just be closer to the wall? If the wall is treated right, you should be OK. I have my chairs almost back against the wall and I think it sounds fine. It measures fine and no one has complained so there should no problem as long as the main seating area is not compromised.

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post #63 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

So the second row will just be closer to the wall? If the wall is treated right, you should be OK. I have my chairs almost back against the wall and I think it sounds fine. It measures fine and no one has complained so there should no problem as long as the main seating area is not compromised.

Absolutely--the seating in my last theater was also right up against the wall and it measured very very well from the main listening position.  There's definitely hope for seating up against the wall.

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post #64 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 01:52 PM
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I hope you can get that done then. Again, I am looking forward to seeing this room take shape. I will also be very curious on your thoughts regarding the Casablanca. It seems like a very powerful preamp.

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post #65 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking about broadcasting my next theater build for 5-6 hours at a time via live stream (YouTube or Ustream) two or three evenings a week once actual work starts...might be a great way to dialogue with some of you guys (via comments) between green glue sessions.
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post #66 of 1933 Old 11-14-2013, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I'm back to two rows!  Just checked out Spaceman's build, and his room is one foot longer than mine.  I'm "hoping" that I can take his approach, but just decrease the space behind the rear row (the main LP in the first row will be the chief focus anyway!)

I only have 7" between the back wall and the headrests when the back row is fully reclined. Not a lot of wiggle room if you were planning on gaining some space there.
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post #67 of 1933 Old 11-15-2013, 05:35 AM
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I only have 7" between the back wall and the headrests when the back row is fully reclined. Not a lot of wiggle room if you were planning on gaining some space there.
I am even less then that when fully reclined. Not optimal, but what can you do.

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post #68 of 1933 Old 11-15-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I was thinking about broadcasting my next theater build for 5-6 hours at a time via live stream (YouTube or Ustream) two or three evenings a week once actual work starts...might be a great way to dialogue with some of you guys (via comments) between green glue sessions.
That sounds great. Do you have the Theta now or is its will it be arriving directly.

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post #69 of 1933 Old 11-15-2013, 12:58 PM
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What level of brightness are you shooting for 2D viewing? I would worry about whether a 12 or 13-foot wide 1.0-gain screen will be bright enough with the Sony VW600ES projector. I know I didn't think it would, based on my calcs -- I am hoping for about 17 ft-Lamberts in low lamp mode.
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post #70 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

That sounds great. Do you have the Theta now or is its will it be arriving directly.

Sitting in the rack as we speak!

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Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

What level of brightness are you shooting for 2D viewing? I would worry about whether a 12 or 13-foot wide 1.0-gain screen will be bright enough with the Sony VW600ES projector. I know I didn't think it would, based on my calcs -- I am hoping for about 17 ft-Lamberts in low lamp mode.

I'd like a pretty bright picture for 2D, and a decently bright picture for 3D. 3D is actually very important to me (I blame my previous projector for that. Let me share my line of thinking, and maybe you could weigh in on your thoughts since you've done some very valuable research:

My previous screen was a 10-foot wide screen. I used a JVC-RS56 to light up the screen, and its brightness was very satisfying on Normal (low) lamp mode for 2D, and pretty satisfying for 3D as well. Now, the JVC is about 600 lumens darker than the Sony 600ES is. So, the real question here is, given I know what size and lumens can give me a great picture for both 2D and 3D, can the extra 600 lumens provided by the Sony 600ES compensate for 1) an additional two feet in length, and 2) the brightness lost by going with an Acoustically Transparent screen?. Now, I've seen an 11 foot wide screen being lit up by a JVC RS4810, and the picture was amazing. I'm a little wary of calculators, primarily because they generally tend to err on the side of extreme caution--but they can establish an approximation of what to expect in real-world use. What do you think?
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post #71 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 07:55 AM
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Looks and sounds great Matt. Congrats. Will there be a part 2 with more listening and maybe movies that include how the room correction works? I am glad you are up and running but I am not as good. Jriver is screwing around with me and I am very sad now. I may have to upgrade to MC19 but I don't know how to do that. Dennis setup JR for me before he brought over the server so I don't know how to re-do all the paths or what have you if I have to that again, So I am back to being down mad.gif. But I don't want to bring you thread down so please enjoy the Theta. I hope it does what you need it to do.

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post #72 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

My previous screen was a 10-foot wide screen. I used a JVC-RS56 to light up the screen, and its brightness was very satisfying on Normal (low) lamp mode for 2D, and pretty satisfying for 3D as well. Now, the JVC is about 600 lumens darker than the Sony 600ES is. So, the real question here is, given I know what size and lumens can give me a great picture for both 2D and 3D,..

What was the gain of your previous screen? It would be interesting to calculate the brightness for the old and the new screens to see how they compare.
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post #73 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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What was the gain of your previous screen? It would be interesting to calculate the brightness for the old and the new screens to see how they compare.

The gain on my old ST130 screen was 1.3. There's a video here--if you skip to the 2:31 mark, you'll see an example of the brightness of the JVC on the 10-foot wide screen. The camera isn't the best, but it should give you an idea. In theory, the Sony should provide an additional 600 lumens on top of that, on the same size screen. I hope the Sony 600ES can at least match at twelve feet what the JVC could do for ten feet, in terms of brightness.
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post #74 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 11:06 AM
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Here are the numbers I come up with.
I assumed the VW600ES to put out 1500 lumens (in high lamp mode), and subtracted 600 from that for the JVC output.
I accepted Falcon's advertised gain of 1.1



It looks like the results are similar, and that if you were happy with the old setup, the new one should be similar for the 12 ft. screen, and low for the 13 ft. (in high lamp mode). 17 ft-Lamberts (lumens/sq ft adjusted for gain) is a good brightness number to shoot for IMO.
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post #75 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

Here are the numbers I come up with.
I assumed the VW600ES to put out 1500 lumens (in high lamp mode), and subtracted 600 from that for the JVC output.
I accepted Falcon's advertised gain of 1.1



It looks like the results are similar, and that if you were happy with the old setup, the new one should be similar for the 12 ft. screen, and low for the 13 ft. (in high lamp mode). 17 ft-Lamberts (lumens/sq ft adjusted for gain) is a good brightness number to shoot for IMO.

Thanks LeBon! I do wonder if I should go with a higher-gain screen now, since I would like 3D to be brighter. Also, since black levels aren't the focal point with the Sony that they are with JVC's, would I loose much color accuracy in high lamp mode? I'd be willing to stockpile a few bulbs if it means freely enjoying bright 3D.

BTW, did you create that calculator? It's pretty awesome! I played around with it a few days ago, but didn't have enough of the input requirements to generate a meaningful conclusion at the time.
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post #76 of 1933 Old 11-16-2013, 11:31 AM
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I have not actually seen a Sony VW600 projector, so I can't say whether there would be a noticeable difference in color accuracy in high vs. low lamp mode.

The calculator is just an Excel spreadsheet. I'll PM you the file, if I can figure that out.

I don't think I'll be happy with a low gain screen, and I am not even concerned about 3D (not a fan). I will go for the Stewart UltraMatte 150 material. For 3D, you might even want the Stewart Utramatte 200, or the Da-Lite Hi-Power 2.4.
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post #77 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 10:10 AM
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Oh this is going to be great!

Subscribed! I can't wait to see everything come together...
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post #78 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 10:38 AM
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HELP:

I am going from a JVC RS55 on a StudioTec 1.3 gain (non perf) screen to a Sony 600ES on a XD (perf) screen (advertised 1.2 gain). Both screens are 10 feet wide. The StudioTec measured brightness is (apparently) pretty close to the advertised brightness where the XD material is closer to a gain of 1 versus the advertised 1.2 (according to what I have been told by Mike Garret of AVS).

My math says the Sony will be only about 10% brighter than the JVC given the gain differences of the screen. I have zero interest in 3D.

I have already purchased and mounted the XD screen. Am I going to need to trash the new screen (or sell at a huge discount) and go to a much more expensive and higher gain Stewart screen to actually see the brightness I am paying for???

Sorry to steal a piece of your thread Matt!

And by the way, I would not accept the Falcon advertised screen gain at face value without it having been tested by a third party. Just sayin'

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post #79 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 11:50 AM
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For me, the question would be "Are you happy with the brightness of the RS55 on the ST130?" If so, then not to worry.

OTOH, if you want to do a lot of 3D, then you may have a problem.
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post #80 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
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For me, the question would be "Are you happy with the brightness of the RS55 on the ST130?" If so, then not to worry.

OTOH, if you want to do a lot of 3D, then you may have a problem.

I have ZERO interest in 3D but would definitely like more brightness in 2D than I am currently getting -- which is one of the reason I decided to bite the bullet on this projector.

Wonder what the cost of a higher gain Stewart screen will be?

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post #81 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm currently researching higher gain screens......3D is important to me these days, but 2D 4k is the most important content i'm planning for. I just want to keep the balance between color accuracy and brightness.
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post #82 of 1933 Old 11-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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You're probably talking north of $3.3K for a 120 in wide 2.35:1 Luxus Deluxe. MicroPerf would be extra.
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post #83 of 1933 Old 11-19-2013, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Couple questions for the gurus, as I'll probably order my soundproofing items next week, just so I don't have to wait for them once the house is complete:

  1. I see hat channel, furring channel, etc. Which is the definitive channel I'm supposed to use? Also, I know whisper clips are ideal, but I've read about non-whisper clips being used. Is this common? I just want to make sure I order the right ones.
  2. Does anybody know if high-lamp mode in a projector kills the potential for color accuracy?
  3. Since my gear will be housed externally, how do I treat speaker wires going into the theater? Would I use the soundproofing putty from TSC (The Soundproofing Company) for the bundle of speaker wire? I can't imagine that being a good idea since sounds will leak parralel between the wires thsmelves, but I can't think of how else to make it happen. Would I run one wire at a time (which would be extremely unsightly from the outside)? or, would I need to soundproof the lobby area as well, and allow the sound leakage from the theater into the lobby?

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
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post #84 of 1933 Old 11-19-2013, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Couple questions for the gurus, as I'll probably order my soundproofing items next week, just so I don't have to wait for them once the house is complete:

  1. I see hat channel, furring channel, etc. Which is the definitive channel I'm supposed to use? Also, I know whisper clips are ideal, but I've read about non-whisper clips being used. Is this common? I just want to make sure I order the right ones.
  2. Does anybody know if high-lamp mode in a projector kills the potential for color accuracy?
  3. Since my gear will be housed externally, how do I treat speaker wires going into the theater? Would I use the soundproofing putty from TSC (The Soundproofing Company) for the bundle of speaker wire? I can't imagine that being a good idea since sounds will leak parralel between the wires thsmelves, but I can't think of how else to make it happen. Would I run one wire at a time (which would be extremely unsightly from the outside)? or, would I need to soundproof the lobby area as well, and allow the sound leakage from the theater into the lobby?

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Big always recommends 25 ga. hat channel. This is a standard metal drywall furring strip. I plan to order the Whisperclips from soundproofing.com

For the speaker wire wall penetration, I plan to install a PVC pipe sleeve from my equipment closet into the soffit. After the wires are installed, I was thinking I'd stuff it with cotton batting, and maybe use some acoustic caulk.
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post #85 of 1933 Old 11-19-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Big always recommends 25 ga. hat channel. This is a standard metal drywall furring strip. I plan to order the Whisperclips from soundproofing.com

For the speaker wire wall penetration, I plan to install a PVC pipe sleeve from my equipment closet into the soffit. After the wires are installed, I was thinking I'd stuff it with cotton batting, and maybe use some acoustic caulk.

Ah, is your equipment closet part of the soundproofed zone? If not, PVC sounds like it might counteract all your efforts man. Sound would dance happily between the cables along the wire runs.
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post #86 of 1933 Old 11-19-2013, 08:58 PM
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My equipment closet is only partially soundproofed. It has a door that opens through the sound wall into the theatre itself. So I think an opening from the closet into the inside of the soffit will be OK if it is properly caulked.
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post #87 of 1933 Old 11-22-2013, 11:36 AM
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Ah, the racks.  Well, I'm trying to design a *different* type of a/v rack...not actually a rack at all!  I don't want the standard fare in-wall rack.  I'd like to put each major piece of equipment on a pedestal in the "lobby" area right outside of the theater in ascending height-order as "show pieces." I plan to upgrade to a Steiger Dynamics HTPC, primarily for aesthetics, as its form factor very closely matches that of the Theta Casablance and Emotiva XPR amps (I'd guess abour 4U's).  Since I use an HTPC as my primary source, access to the rack is something I don't need unless I'm trouble-shooting.  I backup every blu ray I own, so accessing them is just a few remote control presses away--as opposed to having to manually load a disc (for which the externally located "pedestal rack" would be tedious.  Just cooked up the below model to put an image to the thoughts scrambling around in my mind.  The door is the entrance to the theater:



WOW, okay I'm in. SUBBED!!!
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post #88 of 1933 Old 11-22-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW, okay I'm in. SUBBED!!!

 

Thank ye kindly!  I have a few more Ideas for the theater and I want to share once I get a bit of time.  I'm an "outside the box, but still in the box store" kind of guy, so I want to maintain familiarity with certain concepts, while pushing the envelope where I can.

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post #89 of 1933 Old 11-26-2013, 12:19 PM
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post #90 of 1933 Old 11-30-2013, 08:44 PM
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Hey Matt,
can you check your PM for me? Thanks
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