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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction > The Beast, Unleashed
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 01:48 PM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Curious question....but only a handful of bookmarks. Why?
Haha. Just because no matter what the topic it seems like you always have a ton of good info or links or pictures at your fingertips. I imagine some crazy internet browser with 20,000 subcategories all itemized out. You seem like you have invested research into a lot of areas, and you are quick to post informative things. I guess I am a just impressed at the consistency and scope you do it.

HopefulFred's Avatar HopefulFred 02:53 PM 07-24-2014
^agreed. It's encyclopedic.
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 06:47 PM 07-24-2014
Very kind, gentlemen, however undeserved.

And I genuinely feel the same about many of the posts I've seen you and scores of others share with the community on a wide variety of topics.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 06:53 PM 07-24-2014
You've heard the saying "it takes a village"

I'd say it takes a village to DIY theater I have noticed that some of the DIY builds these days are quite higher in quality than the past (on average) which is likely due to the spreading of knowledge. There has always been that awesome exception here and there but the average quality of the dedicated builds seems better. I can't wait to see Brolic's theater.. I keep learning more and more about Matt's theater that makes me say WOW. I think equipment wise it's certain to be epic. I only wish I had that kind of budget for gear. Maximum jealousy in effect here.
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast 08:16 PM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Very kind, gentlemen, however undeserved.

And I genuinely feel the same about many of the posts I've seen you and scores of others share with the community on a wide variety of topics.
Interestingly enough, I really envision you in front of a giant wall of screens (Think: toward the end of The Dark Knight, the wall of surveillance screens), each screen having a different HT subject as you form your theater plans with surgical precision with a perpetual grin of triumph as you mentally defeat build challenges before they even become challenges. Lol....essentially, a mad genius, minus the "mad" part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
You've heard the saying "it takes a village"

I'd say it takes a village to DIY theater I have noticed that some of the DIY builds these days are quite higher in quality than the past (on average) which is likely due to the spreading of knowledge. There has always been that awesome exception here and there but the average quality of the dedicated builds seems better. I can't wait to see Brolic's theater.. I keep learning more and more about Matt's theater that makes me say WOW. I think equipment wise it's certain to be epic. I only wish I had that kind of budget for gear. Maximum jealousy in effect here.
It definitely takes a village to build a HT.....many folks here will never swing a hammer in my room, but provide advice that will go (or has gone) a long way to ensuring the theater hits maximum performance! Dude, based on what you spent to buy that land from your neighbor, I'd say you can definitely scoop up some serious gear when the time for your build is nigh. Never, eeeeeever pay MSRP for anything except an Oppo player.

Speaking of which, I hope we see your build thread soon. It's time to start collecting data pertinent to your room (which I suspect will be a DIY-ers Paradise) in place to help plan your build!!!! Do this before you get your layout....so many questions will already have been answered, which will enable you to get what you truly want from your design.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 08:33 PM 07-24-2014
I submit the land purchase plan to my town planning board in the morning actually. Then the remodel permit and zoning board of appeals variance next week. I'm getting close! Provided everything goes smooth and gets approved you'll see it soon. Theater is still less priority than the rest of the house, or should I say it's top priority so I'll do it last so I can take my time I guess it depends on who I'm talking with, if it's my wife it's "lower priority" if it's you guys it's important enough to require extended attention
ClemsonJeeper's Avatar ClemsonJeeper 09:58 PM 07-27-2014
Just went to go see Lucy at the AMC in Tysons (with Atmos). The movie was pretty good (not great) but the sound was awesome in it. I definitely felt more immersed than traditional theaters.

I especially liked the Dolby Atmos intro where they showed off the full 360 sound and other effects. I definitely will be doing this in my theater. Just prewiring for now and hiding in the ceiling, but adding 4 ceiling channels seems like a requirement now. :-)
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 11:06 AM 07-28-2014
No updates this weekend?



audioguy's Avatar audioguy 11:10 AM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
Just went to go see Lucy at the AMC in Tysons (with Atmos). The movie was pretty good (not great) but the sound was awesome in it. I definitely felt more immersed than traditional theaters.

I especially liked the Dolby Atmos intro where they showed off the full 360 sound and other effects. I definitely will be doing this in my theater. Just prewiring for now and hiding in the ceiling, but adding 4 ceiling channels seems like a requirement now. :-)
Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! I don't want to
Install any more speakers/amps/speaker wire. I have too much difficulty handling audio temptation! Stop it!!

(OK. I will ONLY install 4 more!!!!)
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast 03:41 PM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
Just went to go see Lucy at the AMC in Tysons (with Atmos). The movie was pretty good (not great) but the sound was awesome in it. I definitely felt more immersed than traditional theaters.

I especially liked the Dolby Atmos intro where they showed off the full 360 sound and other effects. I definitely will be doing this in my theater. Just prewiring for now and hiding in the ceiling, but adding 4 ceiling channels seems like a requirement now. :-)
That's the Atmos that we go to!!! Man, that intro is unbelievable! We need to setup a major DMV-AVS Atmos trip for the next blockbuster release! We can buy out a row or two in advance. Yes....add the Atmos channels. add them...Add them....ADD THEM!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
No updates this weekend?



HA! LACK OF PROGRESS? MY LIGHTSABER DENIES SUCH CLAIMS!


LOL, definitely progress--the detail oriented kind. I thought we'd be just throwing up the last two walls and would be ready for clips and channel by now. I have learned the truth of this. NOT SO!! We anchored all the walls in the TBD room, as well as the right and rear walls in the theater and we installed IB-3 clips and connected the walls themselves to each other. We had to put up extra blocking as well. We also analyzed what the plan is for the Soffit, as it cannot stay as it is toward the front of the room where the screen will go. We will re-build the front portion of the soffit.

Interestingly, my sump-pump decided to die yesterday in the middle of the workday, which is yet another expense. But hey--this is the way of the world.

I'm now realizing that I may have to make some cuts to my planned equipment. six subs, eight Triad Gold LCR's, amplification, high-end projector w/ 4k, 4k blu ray player when it's released......that's just equipment. I guess my decision is this: make cuts to get theater completion sooner? Or, take longer and make no cuts. The decision might seem easy, but it's not, as this theater build could potentially get in the way of us doing some other things that we want to do (i.e. trip to Austrailia next year), so this must be finished in a reasonable amount of time, before Mrs. Brolic has an epiphany: other money-pits reap benefits more quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! I don't want to
Install any more speakers/amps/speaker wire. I have too much difficulty handling audio temptation! Stop it!!

(OK. I will ONLY install 4 more!!!!)
LOL------welcome to the Atmos Side!!!! It's only four extra speakers....given all that you've done to your theater already, I'm sure it would be nothing to snag four coax speakers for your ceiling channels. You know you want to do it....you know....
audioguy's Avatar audioguy 03:53 PM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
LOL------welcome to the Atmos Side!!!! It's only four extra speakers....given all that you've done to your theater already, I'm sure it would be nothing to snag four coax speakers for your ceiling channels. You know you want to do it....you know....
That's the rub. I have no intention of installing traditional in wall/ceiling speakers as I will not bust a hole in my sealed ceiling. Which, given my ceiling height, means I need to find 4 traditional (passive) speakers that are thin ( maybe 6 or 8 inches at the most) and I can just put a very small hole in the ceiling to run the speaker wire through and then seal it with some out of this world non-audio leaking compound.

Matt: What are you going to use? The other question is how close do the ceiling speakers need to be in sound to LCR's or surrounds to be effective. I have no intention of installing 4 on wall (ceiling) Seatons !!!

I will probably eventually do it but really want to hear it in a home environment first. I never installed either heights or wides as I got too many mixed reviews on the generally applicability. Some like wides but not on all material; some like heights but not on all material; some like both and some like neither. And since I have not heard a home system with either wides nor heights, I have held off. I Keep trying to get to CraigJohn's place to hear his system but have yet to make it.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 05:38 PM 07-28-2014
Do the room right, chase equipment later.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 05:39 PM 07-28-2014
Is there another video or progress pics coming ?
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 05:39 PM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
That's the rub. I have no intention of installing traditional in wall/ceiling speakers as I will not bust a hole in my sealed ceiling. Which, given my ceiling height, means I need to find 4 traditional (passive) speakers that are thin ( maybe 6 or 8 inches at the most) and I can just put a very small hole in the ceiling to run the speaker wire through and then seal it with some out of this world non-audio leaking compound.
It shouldn't be a problem to build a back box using the same construction techniques as your soundproof shell to give you the full or partial depth you need for the ceiling speakers while preserving your soundproofing efforts. There's also debate at this point as to what type of speaker and radiating pattern would be best for these Atmos speakers. More information is expected from Dolby in the next month or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfusick View Post
do the room right, chase equipment later.
Huge +1
audioguy's Avatar audioguy 07:14 PM 07-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Do the room right, chase equipment later.
+1

Buy the LCR's you want;but low cost used surrounds; get 3 subs that you want and wait on the other 3; get the screen of your choice but a used inexpensive light cannon for a pj. In October of 2015, there will be many more choices for improved 4K projectors.

That will probably save you $10,000 to $20,000 plus and that will certainly pay for your trip to Australia!
Batman61405's Avatar Batman61405 08:41 PM 07-28-2014
We're dying here Brolic! Throw us a bone here! Give us an update!! Maybe let it be known what the monster subs up front are going to be unless that plan has changed


About the cuts: I agree with making the room the best it can possibly be first. It must be done first. Gear will come and go; We all now that. Maybe just get 4 submersives instead of 6 subs? No shame whatsoever in that.
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 09:52 PM 07-28-2014
This weeks progress will not be very apparent in a comparison of last weeks to this weeks pictures, When we left last week we had a bunch of wall sections standing by themselves in place. This week they are secured and we finished the two front walls extending them under the soffit, We also ran out of IB3 clips because of the new extended floor plan. The door to the sump pump area that we removed, filled with framing and drywall was returned to the way it was. That will be the location of the new entrance.
Jonny5nz's Avatar Jonny5nz 12:55 AM 07-29-2014
A question about Atmos.

The Onkyo 737 says it will be able to showcase the latest movies mixed in Dolby Atmos* with a firmware update in September.
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/products/...37-116890.html

How can a 7.2 amplifier do Atmos?
Peter M's Avatar Peter M 06:18 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
This weeks progress will not be very apparent in a comparison of last weeks to this weeks pictures

That is simply






Cheers,
Attached: not-acceptable.png (25.0 KB) 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:25 AM 07-29-2014
My reading of Atmos is that instead of assigning channels to the soundtrack the soundtrack contains spacial location data. At the decoding receiver end the algorithm assigns sound to the available channels the best it can. Obviously without speakers in the recommended locations the effect will be hindered. This makes the Atmos mastering process somewhat appealing as the studios only have to mix one sound track and if you have an Atmos capable receiver you won't have any problems. This is all a perfect plan to sell more receivers, speakers and studio mastering gear.
HopefulFred's Avatar HopefulFred 08:29 AM 07-29-2014
^yes, I agree.

Note that a 7-channel AVR could be used as 5.2.2.
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 08:38 AM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post
A question about Atmos.

The Onkyo 737 says it will be able to showcase the latest movies mixed in Dolby Atmos* with a firmware update in September.
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/products/...37-116890.html

How can a 7.2 amplifier do Atmos?
This may help: http://hometheaterreview.com/dolby-a...nown-unknowns/

There's still a lot to work out, but I would estimate that a 7.2 Atmos receiver is really 5.2.2. In other words, a standard 5.1 system with one pair of ceiling speakers and dual sub outputs.

Not for this Onkyo model, but it could come to pass that there is a separate pre-out section for additional channels with the receivers only supporting so many channels internally. That's how it was in the early days of Dolby Pro Logic and the center channel and sometimes the surround channels were just preamp outputs.

We'll know a lot more over the next 6-8 weeks when more announcements are made.

EDIT - I guess Fred and I were commenting at the same time.
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast 11:13 AM 07-29-2014
New job, New office, New firewall. AVS is blocked as a usernet subgroup. My sorrow runs deep...

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
That's the rub. I have no intention of installing traditional in wall/ceiling speakers as I will not bust a hole in my sealed ceiling. Which, given my ceiling height, means I need to find 4 traditional (passive) speakers that are thin ( maybe 6 or 8 inches at the most) and I can just put a very small hole in the ceiling to run the speaker wire through and then seal it with some out of this world non-audio leaking compound.

Matt: What are you going to use? The other question is how close do the ceiling speakers need to be in sound to LCR's or surrounds to be effective. I have no intention of installing 4 on wall (ceiling) Seatons !!!

I will probably eventually do it but really want to hear it in a home environment first. I never installed either heights or wides as I got too many mixed reviews on the generally applicability. Some like wides but not on all material; some like heights but not on all material; some like both and some like neither. And since I have not heard a home system with either wides nor heights, I have held off. I Keep trying to get to CraigJohn's place to hear his system but have yet to make it.
I'm going to use Triad's forthcoming Atmos speakers (CEDIA announcement is expected). Hearing Craig's system is worth the plane ticket. My visit there was to hear the wide channels. They are great for action movies, but not concert blu rays or music (my opinion). Take the wife for a weekend of historical sight seeing in Philadelphia, then segue to Craig's place. Best combination of audio fidelity, sound envelopment, visual crispness, and overall wow factor. Now, I've never heard yours, but COACH said your last theater was a knock-your-socks-off experience!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Do the room right, chase equipment later.
'Tis ideal.....I have given this advice quite a few times to others....now I must heed it for myself and get over being cutting edge when the edges aren't fully defined yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Is there another video or progress pics coming ?
Not this week, per Big's post above, it's difficult to see progress in pics. I'll def cover the work we did in a video to be added to Episode 5 of the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
+1

Buy the LCR's you want;but low cost used surrounds; get 3 subs that you want and wait on the other 3; get the screen of your choice but a used inexpensive light cannon for a pj. In October of 2015, there will be many more choices for improved 4K projectors.

That will probably save you $10,000 to $20,000 plus and that will certainly pay for your trip to Australia!
I already have the LCR's (Triad CinemaPlus Platinums) and I'm working on fleshing out the surround/wides collection (8 Gold LCRs). I do like the idea of the inexpensive light cannon though...audio is #1 for me. I'll be swimming on the sandy beaches of Sydney before I know it! I'm going to need to Phase this theater. IOC might just be the two monster subs, cheap light cannon, and no wides, while FOC will see the real dream come alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
We're dying here Brolic! Throw us a bone here! Give us an update!! Maybe let it be known what the monster subs up front are going to be unless that plan has changed


About the cuts: I agree with making the room the best it can possibly be first. It must be done first. Gear will come and go; We all now that. Maybe just get 4 submersives instead of 6 subs? No shame whatsoever in that.
Lol, well the subwoofer plan has not changed....the monster subs are one thing I can't budge on. Right now, I'm spec'd for six subs...that might need to get bumped down to four.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post
A question about Atmos.

The Onkyo 737 says it will be able to showcase the latest movies mixed in Dolby Atmos* with a firmware update in September.
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/products/...37-116890.html

How can a 7.2 amplifier do Atmos?
I agree with the other answers provided...it's probably going to be 5(base layer).2(subs).2(Atmos), which can definitely work. My last theater had perfectly placed/calibrated surrounds in a 5 channel configuration, and the need for rears just wasn't there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
That is simply






Cheers,
Lol...btw, your theater has shown me that I can attach a column to a door. Gracias!!!
MIkeDuke's Avatar MIkeDuke 11:47 AM 07-29-2014
So Matt, when you say 4 subs, that includes the monsters right? So I would assume you would keep the Seaton subs in the plan and lose the "balancing" subs? I am guessing even if you do that, your bass is still going to be out of this world. There is nothing wrong with doing it in stages. I am sure even without the other subs and wides it would still sound great. And I know it won't be the best, I am sure that there are affordable projectors you could live with. We sometimes have to step back and take a breath. It seems you are at that stage and I think it's a good thing.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 12:15 PM 07-29-2014
You should dedicated that extra room you have and turn it into a front loaded horn monstrosity. 15hz tune. 145db output. $1200 in drivers. Less distortion and cleaner bass than a Seaton Submersive
BllDo's Avatar BllDo 02:31 PM 07-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
New job, New office, New firewall. AVS is blocked as a usernet subgroup. My sorrow runs deep...
That's a bummer. I had the same issue when I started a new job a couple months ago. It was terrible. I was even thinking about trying to get my old job back. Fortunately, I was able to figure out how to get a different browser installed on my machine. Now Photobucket is still blocked, but at least I can get to AVS.
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast 11:02 AM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
So Matt, when you say 4 subs, that includes the monsters right? So I would assume you would keep the Seaton subs in the plan and lose the "balancing" subs? I am guessing even if you do that, your bass is still going to be out of this world. There is nothing wrong with doing it in stages. I am sure even without the other subs and wides it would still sound great. And I know it won't be the best, I am sure that there are affordable projectors you could live with. We sometimes have to step back and take a breath. It seems you are at that stage and I think it's a good thing.
Yup, definitely includes the monsters! The time to make some breathing room is surely approaching! CEDIA will make things clearer for me. Yah, I may indeed need to lose the balancing subs for IOC (Initial Operational Capability) but will have them for FOC (Future Operational Capability).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
You should dedicated that extra room you have and turn it into a front loaded horn monstrosity. 15hz tune. 145db output. $1200 in drivers. Less distortion and cleaner bass than a Seaton Submersive
Sounds like a very interesting experiment! That stuff isn't my cup of tea though. I've never been Wowed by a DIY product. Not that great DIY isn't out there....I just haven't heard it. Some subs have been super low, but not taut with music....some have been super taut, but with subdued extension...some sounded remarkable, but not "Seaton Sound" remarkable. I think the Rotary sub was a good idea, but $25k isn't going to fly with me or the Mrs. Btw, I still owe you a response to your very well-timed PM...I have a few questions for you that I still need to capture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post
That's a bummer. I had the same issue when I started a new job a couple months ago. It was terrible. I was even thinking about trying to get my old job back. Fortunately, I was able to figure out how to get a different browser installed on my machine. Now Photobucket is still blocked, but at least I can get to AVS.
You're lucky! I can't install new browsers due to my work environment. :-( I must live vicariously through you....except when eating lunch, which gives me an opportunity to whip out the iPad elsewhere and browse away!!!!
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 11:11 AM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Sounds like a very interesting experiment! That stuff isn't my cup of tea though. I've never been Wowed by a DIY product. Not that great DIY isn't out there....I just haven't heard it. Some subs have been super low, but not taut with music....some have been super taut, but with subdued extension...some sounded remarkable, but not "Seaton Sound" remarkable. I think the Rotary sub was a good idea, but $25k isn't going to fly with me or the Mrs. Btw, I still owe you a response to your very well-timed PM...I have a few questions for you that I still need to capture.
Interesting you say all this because I've had the exact opposite reaction; although I do admit to spending a lot more time in the DIY audio forum than the manufacturer forum section.

All the products seemed anemic and weak in comparison the to the DIY solutions, especially in SPL and extension. Everything is a compromise though, you seemed like a bass head which is the only reason why I suggested it. Dedicating an entire room to BASS is a bassheads dream come true!!! Especially if you went all the way with folding horns. Ever see that idiot that did a monster horn in his floor with bricks ?

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2008/07/...-in-the-world/



HAHA! It could be soooo EPIC. That's a lot of dedication and masonry though
MIkeDuke's Avatar MIkeDuke 11:52 AM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Yup, definitely includes the monsters! The time to make some breathing room is surely approaching! CEDIA will make things clearer for me. Yah, I may indeed need to lose the balancing subs for IOC (Initial Operational Capability) but will have them for FOC (Future Operational Capability).
Thanks for the explanations of those abbreviations. So you may lose the balancing subs and you may step down
(temporally) to a more affordable projector but are you keeping all your ceiling speakers dedicated to the ATMOS implementation? Either way, in whatever form your theater starts off in, it will be drool worthy for sure.
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast 12:42 PM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Interesting you say all this because I've had the exact opposite reaction; although I do admit to spending a lot more time in the DIY audio forum than the manufacturer forum section.

All the products seemed anemic and weak in comparison the to the DIY solutions, especially in SPL and extension. Everything is a compromise though, you seemed like a bass head which is the only reason why I suggested it. Dedicating an entire room to BASS is a bassheads dream come true!!! Especially if you went all the way with folding horns. Ever see that idiot that did a monster horn in his floor with bricks ?

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2008/07/...-in-the-world/



HAHA! It could be soooo EPIC. That's a lot of dedication and masonry though
I'm definitely a bass head, but not hardcore like Mr. Bricklayer Subwoofer Dude. That's.....CRAZY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
Thanks for the explanations of those abbreviations. So you may lose the balancing subs and you may step down
(temporally) to a more affordable projector but are you keeping all your ceiling speakers dedicated to the ATMOS implementation? Either way, in whatever form your theater starts off in, it will be drool worthy for sure.
Removing the balancing subs wouldnt be a step-down...currently, per the acoustic modeling Nyal did, they will eliminate a null that will let me move my seats a foot closer if I ever wanted to. The penultimate design called for four subs, and four will still be more than enough for the room, but I wouldn't be able to make the field decision to go a foot closer if I so choose to in the future. I may not need such flexibility, as 13.5 from a 12 footer is just about right.

Yessir, im definitely keeping the atmos config as-is!
Tags: Lumagen , Triad , Seaton Sound , Triad Inwall Gold 6 Lcr
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