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post #1261 of 1919 Old 08-04-2014, 02:51 PM
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Trust me, you will hate the sandbags more!!
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post #1262 of 1919 Old 08-04-2014, 04:15 PM
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Sprinklers are code in California now too. Building around them can be a pain if you don't want to spend the money to have them relocated.
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post #1263 of 1919 Old 08-04-2014, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post
Trust me, you will hate the sandbags more!!
I think I've devised a work-around for the sandbags bro! It involves a bottle of olive oil and a rigid, inclined steel chute made from HVAC duct material! More details to come...if it's successful. If not, I'll let the idea fade into AVS' subconscious. Lol.

Then again, I could just....carry the bags and skip the work-around. Lol. Rites of passage are important too.

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Sprinklers are code in California now too. Building around them can be a pain if you don't want to spend the money to have them relocated.
I don't quite understand the MD code, but alas, I am subject to it's requirements. It's like that in Cali too, eh? hmmm,...now I want to know why some states mandate it, while others dont. #GoogleToTheRescue
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post #1264 of 1919 Old 08-04-2014, 09:58 PM
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for the same reason Chicago and New York city still require residential electrical wiring to be inside metal conduit. Special Interests and political influence. Some counties require the outlets to be installed with the grounding plug on top. Often the international building code paves the way for changes but local jurisdictions can select what they chose to implement, and when.
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post #1265 of 1919 Old 08-05-2014, 04:22 AM
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I may have missed a posting on this subject but what is the idea behind drywall BETWEEN the studs? What acoustic principle is involved? (I'm glad I didn't know about this prior to building my theater !!) Ignorance is bliss --- or not !

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post #1266 of 1919 Old 08-05-2014, 06:32 AM
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Footfall noise is best addressed at the source by attaching damped mass to the underside of the subfloor. If you have hardwood or tile it will attenuate the annoying foot steps overhead.

see #5 here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...oof-a-ceiling/
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post #1267 of 1919 Old 08-05-2014, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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My first Miter Saw!!! Dewalt...I got the matching saw table w/ hand-truck style wheels, since I'm sure this will come in handy when I build the bathroom and possible my blu ray shelving as well.



Drywall cut and ready for mounting...I just need to finish grinding off the last of the subfloor nail protrusions. I had 12 sheets, and I actually ran out of the 12th sheet just for layer one. I'm going to Triage the joist cavities with duct running through them, and re-cut to do double-drywall along the front and rear of the theater (critical). The rest will get the second layer when I do my drywall order for the room. (after clips and channel, but before ceiling insulation and drywall.
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post #1268 of 1919 Old 08-05-2014, 04:22 PM
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I'm not sure how tight you made your cuts or how square your joists are, but if you don't own a drywall rasp like THIS, I found it to be an absolutely essential tool to speed along the job. It allows you to quickly smooth out all the edge roughness from when you snap the drywall. And for $7, it's just a handy thing to have.

Here's a bit of motivation for ya:





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post #1269 of 1919 Old 08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Today was spent doing HW from Big: digging-in on the drywall between joists operation. Got the first layer drywall pieces cut today....that was tough, but not as tough as the second layer will be. tomorrow the Mrs. and I will be loading green glue onto these dusty rectangles and attsching layer one to the subfloor. All of layer 2 won't get done this week, but the perimeter will have two layers for framing purposes, amd I'll work on the middle of the ceiling after next Sunday's activity.
That part sucked. I'm glad I'm done with it. :-) The difference *IS* nothing short of amazing though. I could hear my dog walking around on the hardwood above very easily. Now I can't. Crazy what a little mass & damping will do.

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post #1270 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 03:10 AM
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here's a stupid question... wouldn't the drywall screws go straight through the floor above?

edit n/m Big already answered it

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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
kind of depends on the thickness of your sub floor, assuming it is 3/4 and you are putting up 5/8 drywall you should use no longer than 1 1/4 for the first layer, even if you have hardwood floors, don't send the screws into the flooring, otherwise you will never be able to make changes in the flooring at some point in the future.

As for putting up two layers at once, I like to stagger the seams.

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post #1271 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
I'm not sure how tight you made your cuts or how square your joists are, but if you don't own a drywall rasp like THIS, I found it to be an absolutely essential tool to speed along the job. It allows you to quickly smooth out all the edge roughness from when you snap the drywall. And for $7, it's just a handy thing to have.

Here's a bit of motivation for ya:





MOTIVATION INDEED!!! Wait, you mentioned the squareness of the joist cavities. You mean there's a possibility of variation? I cut all the pieces based on the measurements of each joist cavity section close to the wall (happened to be the wall that my ladder was next to).

....Now I see why you posted that drywall rasp. lolololol. But seriously though, thanks for posting that...I'll pick it up. In the past, having to shave down drywall with a boxcutter has been quite tedious.

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That part sucked. I'm glad I'm done with it. :-) The difference *IS* nothing short of amazing though. I could hear my dog walking around on the hardwood above very easily. Now I can't. Crazy what a little mass & damping will do.
Man, this is definitely motivating. Thank you for your post! As you, Tim, Rich, and others who have done this know all too well, there's soooo much work involved with this. It can drive a guy nuts! BTW--I'm really looking forward to watching your theater come together, man. It's going to be a good one!
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post #1272 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 05:57 AM
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MOTIVATION INDEED!!! Wait, you mentioned the squareness of the joist cavities. You mean there's a possibility of variation? I cut all the pieces based on the measurements of each joist cavity section close to the wall (happened to be the wall that my ladder was next to).

....Now I see why you posted that drywall rasp. lolololol. But seriously though, thanks for posting that...I'll pick it up. In the past, having to shave down drywall with a boxcutter has been quite tedious.
Joists can definitely be installed at slight angles. I think the framer for my home was cross-eyed, myopic, had the shakes, and was tripping on LSD when he installed the joists above my theater. Compounding the issue, I believe my joist lumber was pulled from a nearby lake and laid out in the summer sun for a month before installation as many of the boards had bows in them. That's not to mention the 150 or so nails I had to cut which missed the joists when the subfloor was installed or the copious amount of construction adhesive ooze that had to be chiseled off. To be fair, it's something that would never even be noticed until crazies like us start shoving drywall up there.

I don't have a picture of it, but I filled 3.5 grocery bags completely full with just the drywall dust from using that rasp either to simply smooth the edges or use it like a carpenter uses a wood plane to create a snug fit for all the drywall pieces to accommodate all the anomalies. I was a real 'drywallsmith'.
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post #1273 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Joists can definitely be installed at slight angles. I think the framer for my home was cross-eyed, myopic, had the shakes, and was tripping on LSD when he installed the joists above my theater. Compounding the issue, I believe my joist lumber was pulled from a nearby lake and laid out in the summer sun for a month before installation as many of the boards had bows in them. That's not to mention the 150 or so nails I had to cut which missed the joists when the subfloor was installed or the copious amount of construction adhesive ooze that had to be chiseled off. To be fair, it's something that would never even be noticed until crazies like us start shoving drywall up there.

I don't have a picture of it, but I filled 3.5 grocery bags completely full with just the drywall dust from using that rasp either to simply smooth the edges or use it like a carpenter uses a wood plane to create a snug fit for all the drywall pieces to accommodate all the anomalies. I was a real 'drywallsmith'.
I underestimated just how many nails I'd need to cut. The first few joists were clean and clear and under control, but after the fourth of fifth one, they really started to get thick. I saw that ooze, but didn't touch it--wasn't sure what it was. So i have to chiesel that too? It took three evenings to get all the nails cut...tonight and tomorrow before Sabbath we will be drywalling layer one. I ran out of drywall for layer two, but I'm thinking about cannibalizing sheets from some of the joists. In looking at the ceiling, there are some joists that are just too filled with stuff. For instance, one has a water pipe and hvac supply duct to the floor above. I don't know how I'm getting drywall above that.

BTW--I had a dream last night that I clipped a sprinkler pipe while working, and the plumbers were playing cards in the next room, and the water was getting everywhere...and I asked for help, but none of the plumbers would get up to help me cap the pipe.

I wonder what the heck that means? I hope it isn't foreshadowing...

Man, I thought one of my joists looked a little curved, but I said to myself--that's impossible....it's a joist that passed inspection! (innocent old Brolic--too much faith in the system). I hope I don't have too many suprises this evening regarding the joists being square. *gulp*
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post #1274 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 06:45 AM
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Go figure out where the shut off valve is for your water or sprinkler system for peace of mind it's there.... somewhere..

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #1275 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast;26361969In looking at the ceiling, there are some joists that are just too filled with stuff. For instance, one has a water pipe and hvac supply duct to the floor above. I don't know how I'm getting drywall above that.[/quote

I had the same issue with a couple joist bays. The HVAC to the room above was installed really tight to the subfloor, so the only way I was getting drywall above it was to pull down the HVAC (rigid metal duct) then replace it. And that was difficult because there was electrical ran underneath it, so I couldn't just drop it down. I would have had to cut the rigid duct up, remove it, and rebuild it after putting drywall above it. No way that was happening. I ended up just leaving those open. We'll see if that matters.

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post #1276 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 07:50 AM
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Man, this is definitely motivating. Thank you for your post! As you, Tim, Rich, and others who have done this know all too well, there's soooo much work involved with this. It can drive a guy nuts! BTW--I'm really looking forward to watching your theater come together, man. It's going to be a good one!
You and me both! I've been dragging my feet with the drywall stage because I'm afraid I keep forgetting something. Like I put the drywall up and go "Oh ****, I forgot to run speaker wire!!" Obviously not the case but something like that. I'm pretty sure I've 10x checked things now, so I am shooting for this weekend to be drywall weekend!

I got a buddy who owes me some money so... free labor! Ha

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post #1277 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 07:51 AM
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BTW--I had a dream last night that I clipped a sprinkler pipe while working, and the plumbers were playing cards in the next room, and the water was getting everywhere...and I asked for help, but none of the plumbers would get up to help me cap the pipe.

I wonder what the heck that means? I hope it isn't foreshadowing...
It means you are spending too much time thinking about your home theater if you're dreaming about it. LOL
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post #1278 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I had the same issue with a couple joist bays. The HVAC to the room above was installed really tight to the subfloor, so the only way I was getting drywall above it was to pull down the HVAC (rigid metal duct) then replace it. And that was difficult because there was electrical ran underneath it, so I couldn't just drop it down. I would have had to cut the rigid duct up, remove it, and rebuild it after putting drywall above it. No way that was happening. I ended up just leaving those open. We'll see if that matters.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the level of effort to gut up in those impossible places just seems too detrimental in the scheme of things (i.e. ripping down ducts, cutting water pipe, etc.) I think you're already reaping the benefits though--the fact that you hear a difference means it's working'

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You and me both! I've been dragging my feet with the drywall stage because I'm afraid I keep forgetting something. Like I put the drywall up and go "Oh ****, I forgot to run speaker wire!!" Obviously not the case but something like that. I'm pretty sure I've 10x checked things now, so I am shooting for this weekend to be drywall weekend!

I got a buddy who owes me some money so... free labor! Ha
Drats--nobody owes me money :-( I was thinking about hiring a standard drywall crew for drywall, as I've never done it myself. Awesome that you already have everything ready for drywall! How did you find the clip/channel installation? One day's work?

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It means you are spending too much time thinking about your home theater if you're dreaming about it. LOL
LOL, but alas....you are correct!!!!!
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post #1279 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Go figure out where the shut off valve is for your water or sprinkler system for peace of mind it's there.... somewhere..
LOL....I shut them off for the demo a few months ago, but maybe i need to start shutting them off before every session!
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post #1280 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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So....the Rotary Woofer is back on the table.....the company is saying that I can save about $18k if I design and build my own enclosure, with their oversight.

Ummm, yeah.....it just went from "impossible" to "oh snap, this could actually happen'"

1Hz at 120db? Yes...We...Can!!!!!
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post #1281 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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Wow, that would be insane along with your other sub solution. And I all I want to do is see if can comfortably get a 65 in screen in my room to drop in front of my TV . If I read your plans right, you are using a 144" screen? Is that 2:35 or 16x9.

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post #1282 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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Drats--nobody owes me money :-( I was thinking about hiring a standard drywall crew for drywall, as I've never done it myself. Awesome that you already have everything ready for drywall! How did you find the clip/channel installation? One day's work?
I was going to hire a drywall company to do it, but after reading some horror stories of drywall crews completely screwing up the soundproofing efforts (installing drywall tight to coupled walls, using screws that are too long, putting screws through all the way to the studs circumventing soundproofing, etc) I decided rather than just hire someone and watch them every move they make to do it, I'd just do it myself.

I'm still hiring pros for the taping/mudding/sanding. That is a difficult skill to master and I don't want it to look like crap if I attempted it myself.

If you decide to do it yourself, I have a drywall lift I bought off Amazon for 150$ that I'd be glad to sell you when I'm done. I don't live too far away from you.

The clips and channel would have taken a day but I ended up running out of clips. So I had to put an order for an extra 20 or so clips and wait on them.

The shortage was because I hadn't planned on dedicated channels for my soffits that run perpendicular to the joists (and parallel to the channels). So I needed to add a few extra channels where I am hanging my soffits from.

It also helps very much to mock up your ceiling and the exact location of the channels in SketchUp so you can plan out how you want the drywall laid out so you stagger all the seams. This involves my first layer using a lot of cut pieces so the final layer can be mostly full 4x9 sheets.

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post #1283 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, that would be insane along with your other sub solution. And I all I want to do is see if can comfortably get a 65 in screen in my room to drop in front of my TV . What size screen are you planning again and is it 2:35 or 16x9.
Yes, I'm glad that you're finally considering projection! Woo-hoo!!!!! It can definitely be done in you room--your viewing distance is 10 feet right? you could get away with a 92 screen. In my last theater, the viewing distance in the first and only row was 12.5 feet, and I started with 92:, but it was too smal, so I moved up to 120". 92 at two feet in front of me would have been great. as often found myself sitting on the edge of the seat for a closer viewing distance--at least at the 11ft mark! YOU CAN DO ITTTTT!!!!!!

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I was going to hire a drywall company to do it, but after reading some horror stories of drywall crews completely screwing up the soundproofing efforts (installing drywall tight to coupled walls, using screws that are too long, putting screws through all the way to the studs circumventing soundproofing, etc) I decided rather than just hire someone and watch them every move they make to do it, I'd just do it myself.

I'm still hiring pros for the taping/mudding/sanding. That is a difficult skill to master and I don't want it to look like crap if I attempted it myself.

If you decide to do it yourself, I have a drywall lift I bought off Amazon for 150$ that I'd be glad to sell you when I'm done. I don't live too far away from you.

The clips and channel would have taken a day but I ended up running out of clips. So I had to put an order for an extra 20 or so clips and wait on them.

The shortage was because I hadn't planned on dedicated channels for my soffits that run perpendicular to the joists (and parallel to the channels). So I needed to add a few extra channels where I am hanging my soffits from.

It also helps very much to mock up your ceiling and the exact location of the channels in SketchUp so you can plan out how you want the drywall laid out so you stagger all the seams. This involves my first layer using a lot of cut pieces so the final layer can be mostly full 4x9 sheets.
Oh boy--see, that's a worry of mine as well' Big has a strategy for preventing mishaps though--provide the contractors only with the screw lengths they need for each layer. This way, if they miss a channel, the screw can't hit a stud or the wall on the other side. i think there's another piece to his strategy, but I can't recall it right now. I'd try ti do it myself, but I've never done large-scale drywall before, so I'd probably build the room inside out or something. lol.

I actually have an order of clips in the pipeline, as my current supply is for when the room was going to be 18x18. we actually ran out of IB-3 clips just as we wrapped up a wall. Well, almost. We literally have just one left.
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post #1284 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 08:45 AM
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Yes, I'm glad that you're finally considering projection! Woo-hoo!!!!! It can definitely be done in you room--your viewing distance is 10 feet right? you could get away with a 92 screen. In my last theater, the viewing distance in the first and only row was 12.5 feet, and I started with 92:, but it was too smal, so I moved up to 120". 92 at two feet in front of me would have been great. as often found myself sitting on the edge of the seat for a closer viewing distance--at least at the 11ft mark! YOU CAN DO ITTTTT!!!!!!
It is really closer then 10 feet. It is such because the screen would have to go IN FRONT of my racks. You see, I have some constraints that can not be fixed so I would drop the screen in front of my current TV. That means I really only have about 6-7, maybe 8 feet to the screen. Check out my thread. Start at post 1004 and go from there. It's not as easy as you think.

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post #1285 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 09:02 AM
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LOL....I shut them off for the demo a few months ago, but maybe i need to start shutting them off before every session!
As long as you know where it is, you can get to it quick enough. A little water won't hurt at this point anyways

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post #1286 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 09:04 AM
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So....the Rotary Woofer is back on the table.....the company is saying that I can save about $18k if I design and build my own enclosure, with their oversight.

Ummm, yeah.....it just went from "impossible" to "oh snap, this could actually happen'"

1Hz at 120db? Yes...We...Can!!!!!
So you mean they would sell you the fan but you would build the room or enclosure yourself ? 18k$ seems like a lot of cash, obviously worth it. But what is the total cost this way ?

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post #1287 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 09:19 AM
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So....the Rotary Woofer is back on the table.....the company is saying that I can save about $18k if I design and build my own enclosure, with their oversight.

Ummm, yeah.....it just went from "impossible" to "oh snap, this could actually happen'"

1Hz at 120db? Yes...We...Can!!!!!
Wha wha what??!! That would be AWESOME!

I've seen the enclosures that they built for previous installations. They aren't complicated at all, just a specific cubic volume with heavy wall thickness and lots of bracing, plus a hole cut in one side for the rotary fan to do its thing.

I guess we know what part of that side room would be used for if you move forward with the rotary sub!!!

Sending you a PM....
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post #1288 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 09:21 AM
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So you mean they would sell you the fan but you would build the room or enclosure yourself ? 18k$ seems like a lot of cash, obviously worth it. But what is the total cost this way ?
$22k - $26k+ depending on installation considerations. Pricing HERE.

EDIT - Make that just over $30k...

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post #1289 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 09:58 AM
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Oh boy--see, that's a worry of mine as well' Big has a strategy for preventing mishaps though--provide the contractors only with the screw lengths they need for each layer. This way, if they miss a channel, the screw can't hit a stud or the wall on the other side. i think there's another piece to his strategy, but I can't recall it right now. I'd try ti do it myself, but I've never done large-scale drywall before, so I'd probably build the room inside out or something. lol.

I actually have an order of clips in the pipeline, as my current supply is for when the room was going to be 18x18. we actually ran out of IB-3 clips just as we wrapped up a wall. Well, almost. We literally have just one left.
I've read about Big's technique and it makes sense. If he is around supervising then you are in good hands. If you are trying to save cash, you might tackle yourself or hire some grunt workers for help along side you.

You'd be surprised how fast it can go in a theater, there is a lot less windows and corners and odd things to cut around. But if you are a noob at drywall then it will go VERY SLOW compared to a pro team. A pro team with speed drivers is amazingly fast, and the amount of physical effort required to cut and install huge sheets (12 feet long?) one after another for three layers is going to be demanding and basically "SUCK". Suck is really the only way to describe that. Unless you are super tight on budget hiring out drywall makes sense because a pro team should do a great job quickly and the cost per sheet isn't that high.

I'd just make sure someone is there to supervise them so they do it properly, like use right screws each time, and make sure they differentiate the orientations so that seams don't overlap seams. If you are doing three layers (correct?) then you would ideally start with where you want the seems to end I think, using the second layer to overlap in the other direction. There is a few moving parts and likely the drywallers will need a watchful eye to get it right.

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post #1290 of 1919 Old 08-07-2014, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally put the saw table together....it took me almost THREE HOURS! So, of course, I will always hate it.



Then, I built a tool for the Mrs. to help me with the drywall installation.



I'm tired...
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