The Beast, Unleashed - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 1530 Old 08-07-2014, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Is there actually content on media worth the effort to build a rotary sub or is it just for bragging rights and an occasional demo for the novelty effect?
Absolutely....any blu ray with sub 20Hz content. seaton submersive owners (and owners of other equally capable subs) have been enjoying content down to around 5Hz for years, but its more of a feeling or pressure than a n actual sound. Movies like How to train your dragon (7hz), Black Hawk Down (5hz) and so on. The rotary woofer actually gets loud enough at the single digit Hz level to allow us to hear what we fans have been feeling.
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post #1292 of 1530 Old 08-07-2014, 08:47 PM
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so if you have a submersive or two, that goes to 5 you want to spend what to get to 2?
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post #1293 of 1530 Old 08-07-2014, 10:16 PM
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We hashed this out on the DIY forum a couple times and the conclusion was always that for the money you could design a totally killer subwoofer solution that's equally capable for less cost using traditional drivers and technology. 7hz at 120db isn't exactly all that hard. Actually the science suggests that for you to appreciate single digit bass you'll need greater than 120db output anyways. maxmercy tests and records the results of low bass in movies, and even he seems in the fence about it.

The best explanation I've seen was in my thread on the DIY forum about a serious bass solution where they tested Austin's system (Popalock) with and without a high pass filter in the teens and found the difference insignificant.


Need help designing serious bass solution for a big theater..horns vs ported or both?

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post #1294 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 04:04 AM
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Sprinkler move

Quote:
Originally Posted by snickers1 View Post
be careful around your sprinklers and make sure when you get them lowered your there to watch the work be done ..my friend has started his theater and is doing clips and channel and two layers of DW so the sprinkler obviously needs to be lowered. the guy came out broke a pipe panicked cut a nasty whole in the adjacent bathroom ceiling to fix his mistake...needless to say the sprinkler head work was done for free ..... tips though the cost should be 100$ and hour min 2 hours and if you have 3 to 4 heads in your space he should be done within 1.5 hours if they know what there doing. I will not recommend the guy my friend used to you for the obvious reasons .... just thought you maybe happy to hear that this modification to your room should not cost you a small fortune. also if they are nice they will give the cups that go around the sprinkler heads.

I had two sprinklers lowered, one moved and a pipe rerouted last Friday. About 2 1/2 hours. Time plus materials.

I'm in MD too. Let me know if you need a recommendation.

My in progress build thread:
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post #1295 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Is there actually content on media worth the effort to build a rotary sub or is it just for bragging rights and an occasional demo for the novelty effect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Absolutely....any blu ray with sub 20Hz content. seaton submersive owners (and owners of other equally capable subs) have been enjoying content down to around 5Hz for years, but its more of a feeling or pressure than a n actual sound. Movies like How to train your dragon (7hz), Black Hawk Down (5hz) and so on. The rotary woofer actually gets loud enough at the single digit Hz level to allow us to hear what we fans have been feeling.
This is where I go to see what movies have ULF content down to a single Hz. Not every movie has been tested and there is a cue of movies that still need to be tested.

After I went sealed and with a bunch of drivers, I watch some of the movies that I owned and found what I was missing! It was addicting! Keep in mind that my theater is on the second floor of my house and that really intensifies the ULF effect. I have no idea what it would be like in a basement.


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post #1296 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
My first Miter Saw!!! Dewalt...I got the matching saw table w/ hand-truck style wheels, since I'm sure this will come in handy when I build the bathroom and possible my blu ray shelving as well.
Nice miter saw. Definitely a must have for a home theater build. Does your Dewalt miter saw stand have material supports? I went with an off-brand stand that has material support which have been invaluable when cutting long stock. This is the stand that I have used for the last 4+ years:
http://www.amazon.com/Denali-Miter-S...iter+saw+stand


If you're looking to buy more power tools, you may want to consider reconditioned tools which saves you some $$$ and the tools come with a reasonable warranty. My miter saw, circular saw, orbital sanders, etc. are all "Grade A" reconditioned. Not one has let me down yet.

My in progress build thread:
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post #1297 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
My first Miter Saw!!! Dewalt...I got the matching saw table w/ hand-truck style wheels, since I'm sure this will come in handy when I build the bathroom and possible my blu ray shelving as well.
Congrats on the new "toy". Is it "hi rez"?

When I needed more shelving for media, I found a bunch of example on youtube. I did a modified version of what is shown in this video:
.

He has 2 x 4's running to the floor and I could not do that as my on-floor shelves were there so I attached the vertical pieces (I used 1 x 4's instead of 2 x 4's) directly to the studs with very long lag bolts. My shelves currently hold about 700 CD's.

VERY easy to construct, paint and install. It is kind of cool that the shelf actually has no bottom but just a piece of 1 x 2 running across the front. The wall and the 1 x 2 support the media.


R 8:28


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post #1298 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Is there actually content on media worth the effort to build a rotary sub or is it just for bragging rights and an occasional demo for the novelty effect?
Jeff "The Bland" went to single digit output at high volume with 6 SubMersives. The practical me would rather go that way than the rotary solution. Or, as someone else suggested, a DIY product. The SubMersive probably wins in the re-sale department should you decide to make a change.

R 8:28


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post #1299 of 1530 Old 08-11-2014, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe88 View Post
Nice miter saw. Definitely a must have for a home theater build. Does your Dewalt miter saw stand have material supports? I went with an off-brand stand that has material support which have been invaluable when cutting long stock. This is the stand that I have used for the last 4+ years:
http://www.amazon.com/Denali-Miter-S...iter+saw+stand


If you're looking to buy more power tools, you may want to consider reconditioned tools which saves you some $$$ and the tools come with a reasonable warranty. My miter saw, circular saw, orbital sanders, etc. are all "Grade A" reconditioned. Not one has let me down yet.
Yup, definitely has metarial supports! Check this post: The Beast, Unleashed

I appreciate the tip on reconditioned! I think I may stop my tool purchasing here for now, but if I do buy more (which I believe I will), then I'm guessing I"ll go the reconditioned route since your success rate is flawless

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Congrats on the new "toy". Is it "hi rez"?

When I needed more shelving for media, I found a bunch of example on youtube. I did a modified version of what is shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ACX0wBzis.

He has 2 x 4's running to the floor and I could not do that as my on-floor shelves were there so I attached the vertical pieces (I used 1 x 4's instead of 2 x 4's) directly to the studs with very long lag bolts. My shelves currently hold about 700 CD's.

VERY easy to construct, paint and install. It is kind of cool that the shelf actually has no bottom but just a piece of 1 x 2 running across the front. The wall and the 1 x 2 support the media.

Um, wow--that shelving is EXACTLY what I want to build. Lile--literally, exactly. I have 360 blu rays currently packed in bins, and I want to display them. Ugh--keeping them alphabetized was a pain before, and will continue to be a pain. But...worth it! lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Jeff "The Bland" went to single digit output at high volume with 6 SubMersives. The practical me would rather go that way than the rotary solution. Or, as someone else suggested, a DIY product. The SubMersive probably wins in the re-sale department should you decide to make a change.
My current plan involves four submersives and two super duper subs...perhaps I should just stick to my existing design. I think I need to hear a rotary sub for myself before fully deciding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
This is where I go to see what movies have ULF content down to a single Hz. Not every movie has been tested and there is a cue of movies that still need to be tested.

After I went sealed and with a bunch of drivers, I watch some of the movies that I owned and found what I was missing! It was addicting! Keep in mind that my theater is on the second floor of my house and that really intensifies the ULF effect. I have no idea what it would be like in a basement.
Second floor theaters have an awesome tactile feeling, for sure. My last theater was in a non-basement house, and when I flexed my dual submersives to the single digits, I could feel the pressure on my fingers like a light squeeze. 'Twas crazy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedStripe88 View Post
I had two sprinklers lowered, one moved and a pipe rerouted last Friday. About 2 1/2 hours. Time plus materials.

I'm in MD too. Let me know if you need a recommendation.
I'd love a recommendation! 2.5 hrs isn't bad at all man. I"ll need about the same level of effort....maybe another 30 mins or so.

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post #1300 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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If anybody is in the market for two Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks,PM me. I just listed mine for sale w/amp stands.
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post #1301 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 08:32 AM
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If anybody is in the market for two Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks,PM me. I just listed mine for sale w/amp stands.
What will you replace them with?

R 8:28


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post #1302 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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What will you replace them with?
I'm thinking pro amps.....with 17 speakers coming, I need to find a cheaper amp solution with enough output capability.
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post #1303 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 08:52 AM
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There is stupid good pricing on crown amps through musicians friend online right now. 15cents a watt.

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post #1304 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 09:07 AM
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http://m.guitarcenter.com/Item/Defau...D=p4dpml972ejm

Probably the cheapest possible solution with good results. And good resale value and upgrade path.

The 1250wattx2 version is only $299!


Or is this TOO cheap for you ?
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post #1305 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brolicbeast View Post
i'm thinking pro amps.....with 17 speakers coming, i need to find a cheaper amp solution with enough output capability.
11.2.4 = 17 ??

R 8:28


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post #1306 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
There is stupid good pricing on crown amps through musicians friend online right now. 15cents a watt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
http://m.guitarcenter.com/Item/Defau...D=p4dpml972ejm

Probably the cheapest possible solution with good results. And good resale value and upgrade path.

The 1250wattx2 version is only $299!


Or is this TOO cheap for you ?
Thanks for the heads up! These pro amp prices are wayyyy too good to be true.....I don't really understand. Maybe I'm better off keeping the Emotivas and building the amp collection over time. Given the purpose of pro amps (drive pro speakers for large venues), there mussst be something left out at those prices that an audiophile like me might notice (not discussed much on this particular thread, but my love of home theater only scratches only the surface of my affection for audio).

I'm going to do my research though.

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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
11.2.4 = 17 ??
11 bed speakers (wides and additional side surrounds for the second row of seating) and 6 ceiling Atmos speakers. Six subwoofers will round it out. More like 11.6.6 (yikes!)
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post #1307 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 10:06 AM
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I say buy the pro amp and give it a demo at home... I think you will be surprised. I demoed some pro amps years ago from Guitar Center and they were awesome! Most of the places will have no problem with you buying one or more amps and taking them home to try out, and returning the one or all if you are not happy.

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post #1308 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 10:25 AM
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Matt I've owned a few crown amps. I have always been pleased with them. They are owned by Harmon and the amps have outstanding quality given their stupidly low prices. That $99 amp I linked blows away my Denon AVR3312. Especially if all the channels are being driven. I just bought one for haha just because it was only $99. It's sold out though now. Musicians friend and Guitar center are same parent company and they get those special prices and models because they are a big crown customer. It's as simple as that. It's basically the old crown amps design just continued to be mfg in china. Crown has some new lines, but the quality of those special sale models is there given the price.

Go buy one and test is yourself. You'll be surprised. There's a thread about the $99 crown in the DIY forum right now, you can learn some more there too.
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post #1309 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 10:29 AM
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It's a good temp hold over solution for your extra and less important channels like the back, height, wide, Atmos etc.... For such cheap money you'll get your theater rocking and can upgrade to a better amp in time and funds allow. Run the main speakers from your amps now.

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post #1310 of 1530 Old 08-12-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Thanks for the heads up! These pro amp prices are wayyyy too good to be true.....I don't really understand. Maybe I'm better off keeping the Emotivas and building the amp collection over time. Given the purpose of pro amps (drive pro speakers for large venues), there mussst be something left out at those prices that an audiophile like me might notice (not discussed much on this particular thread, but my love of home theater only scratches only the surface of my affection for audio).

I'm going to do my research though.



11 bed speakers (wides and additional side surrounds for the second row of seating) and 6 ceiling Atmos speakers. Six subwoofers will round it out. More like 11.6.6 (yikes!)
I used to be a DJ trust me now these Amps get cheap , there are crown amp $4000 anyway dud pro amps is the way to go with all these speakers u going to have , give them a try
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post #1311 of 1530 Old 08-13-2014, 04:26 PM
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I have been following this informative thread for a while now and the knowledge in home theater on this thread is way above me. But I do know a bit about crown amps or other pro amps because of night club sound systems.

Some of the best night club sound installers have used crown for many installs but they are using a different line.

Gary Stewart (RIP) who I think used to build some of the best club sound systems in the world used crown macro tech amplifiers. He also used crown ct amps and another different brand called powersoft amps. You will notice that those amps I mentioned are much more expensive than what was listed earlier.

I probably will catch a lot of flack for this but it is my belief that once you get to a certain quality (ie not junk but something decent) you cannot hear a difference in one amp to the next.
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post #1312 of 1530 Old 08-13-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Absolutely....any blu ray with sub 20Hz content. seaton submersive owners (and owners of other equally capable subs) have been enjoying content down to around 5Hz for years, but its more of a feeling or pressure than a n actual sound. Movies like How to train your dragon (7hz), Black Hawk Down (5hz) and so on. The rotary woofer actually gets loud enough at the single digit Hz level to allow us to hear what we fans have been feeling.
I need to look thru my emails. I had a quote for install many years back. It was to go in th attic and the air tunnel went through a portion of my wife's closet! Eventually, she said 'no'. One issue I recall is some soundtracks have a lot of garbage below 5 Hz which might have caused chuffing like sounds and distraction.

None the less, huge output!! Hope you install it!!


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post #1313 of 1530 Old 08-13-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Congrats on the new "toy". Is it "hi rez"?

When I needed more shelving for media, I found a bunch of example on youtube. I did a modified version of what is shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ACX0wBzis.

He has 2 x 4's running to the floor and I could not do that as my on-floor shelves were there so I attached the vertical pieces (I used 1 x 4's instead of 2 x 4's) directly to the studs with very long lag bolts. My shelves currently hold about 700 CD's.

VERY easy to construct, paint and install. It is kind of cool that the shelf actually has no bottom but just a piece of 1 x 2 running across the front. The wall and the 1 x 2 support the media.



OMG that video only needed to be about a minute long


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post #1314 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
I say buy the pro amp and give it a demo at home... I think you will be surprised. I demoed some pro amps years ago from Guitar Center and they were awesome! Most of the places will have no problem with you buying one or more amps and taking them home to try out, and returning the one or all if you are not happy.
I tried to find a Guitar Center close to my house, but the closest one is about an hour away. I really do want to try one out though! I'll find a way.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Matt I've owned a few crown amps. I have always been pleased with them. They are owned by Harmon and the amps have outstanding quality given their stupidly low prices. That $99 amp I linked blows away my Denon AVR3312. Especially if all the channels are being driven. I just bought one for haha just because it was only $99. It's sold out though now. Musicians friend and Guitar center are same parent company and they get those special prices and models because they are a big crown customer. It's as simple as that. It's basically the old crown amps design just continued to be mfg in china. Crown has some new lines, but the quality of those special sale models is there given the price.

Go buy one and test is yourself. You'll be surprised. There's a thread about the $99 crown in the DIY forum right now, you can learn some more there too.
Very interesting amp culture, I've found. Pro amps really do have a following. I don't mind amps being manufactured in China, as I'm not rich and will not be an extra $400 for a product because it's American made! I'm trying to figure out how to get a couple in my house, and A/B them with the Emotivas. It would also be a great reason to take the CinemaPlus Platinums out of their shipping crate. heh heh.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
It's a good temp hold over solution for your extra and less important channels like the back, height, wide, Atmos etc.... For such cheap money you'll get your theater rocking and can upgrade to a better amp in time and funds allow. Run the main speakers from your amps now.
That's a good point--it can even be a hold-over solution. One can never have too many amplifiers, as there will always be points when amps are out for repairs, etc.

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Originally Posted by wilfredent View Post
I used to be a DJ trust me now these Amps get cheap , there are crown amp $4000 anyway dud pro amps is the way to go with all these speakers u going to have , give them a try
Ah, DJ WIlfred! I appreciate the advice :-)

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Originally Posted by idreaminhd View Post
I have been following this informative thread for a while now and the knowledge in home theater on this thread is way above me. But I do know a bit about crown amps or other pro amps because of night club sound systems.

Some of the best night club sound installers have used crown for many installs but they are using a different line.

Gary Stewart (RIP) who I think used to build some of the best club sound systems in the world used crown macro tech amplifiers. He also used crown ct amps and another different brand called powersoft amps. You will notice that those amps I mentioned are much more expensive than what was listed earlier.

I probably will catch a lot of flack for this but it is my belief that once you get to a certain quality (ie not junk but something decent) you cannot hear a difference in one amp to the next.
I believe the Pre-Amp has much more to do with the sound we hear than the amp does. This is definitely the main reason I'm thinking about pro amps.

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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I need to look thru my emails. I had a quote for install many years back. It was to go in th attic and the air tunnel went through a portion of my wife's closet! Eventually, she said 'no'. One issue I recall is some soundtracks have a lot of garbage below 5 Hz which might have caused chuffing like sounds and distraction.

None the less, huge output!! Hope you install it!!
Ah, really? I never thought about that....sub-5Hz garbage, eh? I guess I thought mixers give it their all--even with the stuff we can't normally hear.

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Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post
OMG that video only needed to be about a minute long
LOL!

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post #1315 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:04 AM
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A big uk company I've been to have used cheap inukes on the mk150mk2 with good results, don't be thrown by the price difference either as most of the cost in something like the emotiva will be the massive heatsinks whereas in the pro amp it will have forced cooling which isn't an issue as your equipment is in another room, also all the pro amps have balanced inputs and if your pre has them is a bonus, just make sure the pro amp input voltage Is ok for your pre's output


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post #1316 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesvicky View Post
A big uk company I've been to have used cheap inukes on the mk150mk2 with good results, don't be thrown by the price difference either as most of the cost in something like the emotiva will be the massive heatsinks whereas in the pro amp it will have forced cooling which isn't an issue as your equipment is in another room, also all the pro amps have balanced inputs and if your pre has them is a bonus, just make sure the pro amp input voltage Is ok for your pre's output


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I have two Emotiva amps and two pro amps currently and have had other pro amps before and the biggest differences that matter more than people think are appearance and loudness. The emotiva amps are actually not expensive for what they are and they look good and are ultra quite. Pro amps in general are not that good looking and are really loud. You can do fan mods, but then the amp is not cooling like it should. There are definitely tradeoffs. My pro amps are not visible in my theater rack for this reason. They are just in my av closet so they are out of sight out of mind.


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post #1317 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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No progress today....had a terrible fever all weekend. I'm getting over it now (down to 99 degrees from 104), but I'm not happy about the one week delay.
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post #1318 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 10:21 AM
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104! That brain cell killing temps at our age.... Must be going around. I was home sick all week with flu like symptoms, although I'm leaning towards possibility of food poisoning too. I kicked my ass out in the heat on the driveway chopping MDF then spraying paint in the sun making wifey a closet all day last saturday, I woke up that sunday extra sore and wanted a protein shake but discovered we were out of milk Wifey pulled out some premade muscle milks from the bottom of a cabinet that were circa 2009! I poured it into a glass and it was half seperated, half chunky. Do not ask my why I drank it... lol. Anyways I got sick and a fever that night, lasted all week. Could be coincidence? IDK... but I do know for sure that being sick sucks. Sorry to hear you are not feeling well, I hope you feel better soon!

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post #1319 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesvicky View Post
A big uk company I've been to have used cheap inukes on the mk150mk2 with good results, don't be thrown by the price difference either as most of the cost in something like the emotiva will be the massive heatsinks whereas in the pro amp it will have forced cooling which isn't an issue as your equipment is in another room, also all the pro amps have balanced inputs and if your pre has them is a bonus, just make sure the pro amp input voltage Is ok for your pre's output


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I have an iNuke for my Crowsons--a remarkable design, albeit hardcore pro. I love the built-in EQ though.

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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I have two Emotiva amps and two pro amps currently and have had other pro amps before and the biggest differences that matter more than people think are appearance and loudness. The emotiva amps are actually not expensive for what they are and they look good and are ultra quite. Pro amps in general are not that good looking and are really loud. You can do fan mods, but then the amp is not cooling like it should. There are definitely tradeoffs. My pro amps are not visible in my theater rack for this reason. They are just in my av closet so they are out of sight out of mind.
Have you ever done a one of one comparison of the emotiva and pro amps? I'm very curious as to what sound difference (if any) may exist. You and Jamesvicky are right about the noise--they do get loud, but since my stuff shall be elsewhere, I'd be ok with them.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
104! That brain cell killing temps at our age.... Must be going around. I was home sick all week with flu like symptoms, although I'm leaning towards possibility of food poisoning too. I kicked my ass out in the heat on the driveway chopping MDF then spraying paint in the sun making wifey a closet all day last saturday, I woke up that sunday extra sore and wanted a protein shake but discovered we were out of milk Wifey pulled out some premade muscle milks from the bottom of a cabinet that were circa 2009! I poured it into a glass and it was half seperated, half chunky. Do not ask my why I drank it... lol. Anyways I got sick and a fever that night, lasted all week. Could be coincidence? IDK... but I do know for sure that being sick sucks. Sorry to hear you are not feeling well, I hope you feel better soon!
Dudeeeeee, 5 year old muscle milk? lol....man, I guess we all have those moments that exist only so we can warn our children about them later in life!

Fever is close to gone--the Mrs. picked up on it and before I knew it, I was helping clean the bathroom. My head is killing me though...

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post #1320 of 1530 Old 08-17-2014, 03:16 PM
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IDK.. it might have been the flu. It looked ok to drink when I stirred it up... lol

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