SoundProofing from A-Z for Dummies (with Pics!) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a step by step virtual creation of my Home Theater. With everything explained, parts itemized and costs involved.

Hopefully this will save other lots of time and wasted money (as I've spent learning things the hard way). In addition it can save those-who-know from having to answer the same questions inside of each persons "My Theater Build" thread. Also my experience has been that some things that are very obvious to those with experience are not to the newbie, and thus you may find after you've fully soundproofed your room that you didn't create a moisture barrier, and now it's just a matter of time until mold grows and you have to take everything apart.- hopefully I can include all of these details to save others from headaches/loss.

Basic Idea: Create a decoupled room within the existing room - so vibrations don't escape

Outline
  1. Starting Point
  2. Flooring
  3. Addition Rigid insulation around Foundation Walls
  4. Ceiling




Challenges:
  • Need to add new walls in front of the foundation walls
  • need to work around a waste pipe going along 2 walls (it bends)
  • Need to prevent sound from going to a main support beam (which runs right through the HT)
  • Design - adjusting for height issues (low ceiling - only 6'9" high and main support beam and pipe drops down about 9-12" lower)
  • Lally columns holding up the main support beam
  • Stairs are adjacent to the HT - giving sound a clean path to all floors
  • Have a French Drain hole in the corner where the wall would be
  • Cables

Note - My foundation is poured concrete
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post #2 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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(1) Starting Point
Here's a top down view of the basement as it was when we purchased the home :
All concrete, HT room is adjacent to the boiler room, and also adjacent to the Stairs (yuch!)
In addition ceiling is low, and support beam and waste pipe make it even lower

(you can click on the pic to get a larger view)
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post #3 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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(2) Flooring

This is the only step I am cutting corners. As I originally laid down Laminate flooring
(i.e.
putting down a 6 mil thick plastic as a vapor barrier
and then thin foam on top of that to remove squeeks
and then laying down the laminate on top (note the laminate I purchased also came with foam underneath the laminate to further reduce squweeks (I'm very happy with it and get lots of compliments)

However it's not good for sound proofing.


For my personal needs - as I don't mind sound getting elsewhere in the basement, I'm mainly concerned with preventing it from getting upstairs.
To the experts - is this a make or break problem for me? what about in general?

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post #4 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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(3) Adding Rigid Insulation

Purpose – Aside from some nominal sound containment – this is mainly to serve as a moisture barrier. Since were going to add new walls in front of the foundation walls, don’t want moisture getting through the foundation walls (as it does) and ruining the air quality or worse – causing mold (remember we’re building walls – so whatever issues you invite are going to be trapped there – unless you tear down your work)

Materials


Tools Needed
  • Caulking gun
  • Saw (optional?)
  • Goggles - don't want stuff flying in your eyes when you cut - no real impact risk here, so I'm guessing the cheap ones should be fine. Though note - the cheap ones fog up

Costs Wow these are expensive - but also helps reduce heating costs. I have 46 linear feet - so cost is $465 +tax = ($415 for boards + $40 for adhesive (based on guess below) + $11 tape (I should make due w/1 roll, since I have about 160 ft of tape needed)
How to: - Basic idea - Glue panels to wall
I haven't actually done this yet, but from what I understand it's pretty easy:
  • Cut top of panels to size (as they're 8' high, and my ceiling is 6'9")
  • Connect panels to each other (tongue and groove so they're easy),
  • With caulking gun - apply glue to wall (note a continuous bead is not required) - Q- How much adhesive should be used for each panel? I'm guessing (since the panels are 2' wide - a bead around the paremeter is fine)
  • press the (now attached) panels to the glue on the wall (please correct me here - I'm assuming that you connect the panels first and then attach to wall)
  • Tape seams with house wrap tape
  • note- need to seal top and bottom - to make it air tight - so mold doesn't accumulate behind the foam (see video BigM referenced below - approx. 12min. point)



need to cut off end (they sell a special knife for this, but I'm going to try a utility knife)

I currently have wallpaper glued to one of the foundation walls (don't ask) - so I'll need to remove that (not pleasant as you apply a spray - but it's a mess, and not terribly effective)

(note I've hidden the non foundation walls from view to help illustrate)



Here's a pic of someone else's actual work: (as shown in this pic, you'll want to do the same for the floor- this would approx. double the cost)
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post #5 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone explain why you need to by the rigid insulation - and cant' attach thick (6mm) plastic on the foundation wall (much cheaper) - b/c the walls that'll be added themselves have R13 insulation filled in them - so there's already energy saving there?
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post #6 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 03:55 PM
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post #7 of 18 Old 11-13-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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BigM - thanks - he mentions at approx. 12min that it's important to seal the top and bottom of the foam panels - as moisture/mold can accumulate BEHIND the foam panels.
(The photo that I attached above from another member shows that he didn't tape the top of the panels ;-( )
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post #8 of 18 Old 11-16-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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(4) Ceiling

Basic Idea - putting on a ceiling that's not coupled to the joists, i.e. is not going to vibrate the joists. There are other methods, by adding new joists, the method I'm familiar with is screwing in special clips to a select few locations. And then attaching "hat channels" to these clips. These hat channels take the place of the joists in that you attach the ceiling to these hat channels. The idea being that the clips are designed to allow movement - and in so doing prevent it from vibrating the joists (thus keeping it from the rest of the house)
How To
Step 0 -(BigMouthinDC edit - check every item in the ceiling that may be prone to rattling and secure. Wrap noisy pipes in an appropriate pipe wrap/insulation, insulate the ceiling with at fiberglass at least R19)
Step 1 - you're probably going to have to toe tap 2x4 (2x6?) between the joists at the end of the room. In this way you can attach the whisper clips close to the wall. (BigMouthinDC edit - If you have hardwood or tile floors above your theater space consider securing damped mass to the underside of the sub-floor, Two layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue will work start taming the problem. Cut the drywall in strips to fit.)
Step 2 - attach clips (diagram to follow as to what pattern to use - want to make each row about 2' from the neighboring (parallel) row, and within a row - spread out the clips - every 3rd joist (assuming 16" o.c.)- i.e. 1 every 4 feet. You'll have to double up closer to the walls, and want to alternate - so clips for one row are on a joist, that clips for the next row aren't on the same joist - to spread out the minimal coupling that there is.
Step 3 - attach hat channels. Probably will have to connect hat channels together to form longer lengths - use short self screw screws for this (make sure to mark where the hat channels are - so you can find them later). (BigMouthinDC edit - the clips are spread so that the weight is distributed between all the ceiling joists not just every 4th one,. Check with your clip vendor for additional clips to support structures you might add later like soffits.)
Step 4 - attach drywall to hat channels as you normally would, and add GG, then another layer of DW
tips: substitute a sheet of 5/8 OSB for the first layer of drywall in the projector location for mounting purposes. If you plan an elaborate ceiling structure you may want to substitute OSB for the entire first layer. First layer screw is 1 1/4 second layer is 2 inches long. Use screws intended for light gauge metal framing. Be sure to get 25 ga furring channel with hemmed edges. If the guy says he has 20 and it is stronger, don't be tempted. It is a bear to work with and will reduce the spring action of the assembly. (BigMouthinDC edit)
Materials

Costs

Pic of wood added between joists:

Pattern of Clips

View from below (i.e. laying on the floor - looking up at the ceiling) of rows of hat channels: With Drywall and GG and DW added- my apologies - in the pic the clips are not attached to the joists, or according to any pattern (still learning SketchUp :-) ) - also I didn't put the hat channel/clips on the wood added between the joists


Here's a pic of the drywall on the jack about to go up (jack very recommended (can rent at home depot) - unless working with a team)


gotta go to bed.. construction is tiring :-)
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-17-2013, 05:28 AM
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Additional comments:

step -1 If you have hardwood or tile floors above your theater space consider securing damped mass to the underside of the sub-floor, Two layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue will work start taming the problem. Cut the drywall in strips to fit.
Step 0 - check every item in the ceiling that may be prone to rattling and secure. Wrap noisy pipes in an appropriate pipe wrap/insulation, insulate the ceiling with at fiberglass at least R19
Step 3. the clips are spread so that the weight is distributed between all the ceiling joists not just every 4th one,. Check with your clip vendor for additional clips to support structures you might add later like soffits.


tips: substitute a sheet of 5/8 OSB for the first layer of drywall in the projector location for mounting purposes. If you plan an elaborate ceiling structure you may want to substitute OSB for the entire first layer. First layer screw is 1 1/4 second layer is 2 inches long. Use screws intended for light gauge metal framing. Be sure to get 25 ga furring channel with hemmed edges. If the guy says he has 20 and it is stronger, don't be tempted. It is a bear to work with and will reduce the spring action of the assembly.
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post #10 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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reserved for Step 5
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post #11 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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reserved for Step 6
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post #12 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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reserved for Step 7
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post #13 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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reserved for possible step 8
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post #14 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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post #15 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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post #16 of 18 Old 11-18-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Additional comments:

step -1 If you have hardwood or tile floors above your theater space consider securing damped mass to the underside of the sub-floor, Two layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue will work start taming the problem. Cut the drywall in strips to fit.
Step 0 - check every item in the ceiling that may be prone to rattling and secure. Wrap noisy pipes in an appropriate pipe wrap/insulation, insulate the ceiling with at fiberglass at least R19
Step 3. the clips are spread so that the weight is distributed between all the ceiling joists not just every 4th one,. Check with your clip vendor for additional clips to support structures you might add later like soffits.


tips: substitute a sheet of 5/8 OSB for the first layer of drywall in the projector location for mounting purposes. If you plan an elaborate ceiling structure you may want to substitute OSB for the entire first layer. First layer screw is 1 1/4 second layer is 2 inches long. Use screws intended for light gauge metal framing. Be sure to get 25 ga furring channel with hemmed edges. If the guy says he has 20 and it is stronger, don't be tempted. It is a bear to work with and will reduce the spring action of the assembly.

thanks - I inserted the commented in the appropriate spots.

Also - I think I need to reorder the steps - b/c I think I should have put the step of creating the frames for the walls (since doing a room within a room) before finishing the ceiling.

Q - when creating a room within a room - does the existing (coupled standard framed wall) count as one of the double stud walls? i.e. take off the drywall, add insulation and create a wall 6" away from it with back opened and just insulation inside)? or do you leave that as is, and add 2 more decoupled walls?
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-20-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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bump - to the Experts - I'm about to add the wall framing to the how to - please let me know which of the following 2 diagrams are the correct way to install a double stud wall in an existing room (i.e. with existing coupled walls)
A or B?
(not shown but the ceiling DW is decoupled)
Option A - existing coupled wall counts as one of the 2 walls


Or Option B - existing coupled wall does not count as one of the 2 walls
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-04-2014, 09:42 PM
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Nice concept for the thread.

I am certainly no expert, but option A jives with my understanding and application thus far. The decoupled wall can be attached to the adjacent coupled wall and/or ceiling joists using RSIC-DC04 clips, for instance. I would not want to work on option B!
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