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post #1 of 37 Old 11-16-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone. I've been mostly lurking on this site for YEARS. When I decided to build a dedicated room in my current home I started specifically sifting through examples on here I could draw from for ideas. I quickly realized there are so many variables, that when you think you have one solution, you have to see if it's impacted another variable. There are MANY as I'm sure most of you have faced in your own builds, so I'll try to outline the factors I find myself considering, and if more are discovered or brought up, I'm more than happy to factor those in as well. Also, my pictures will be horrible for now, and my floor plan I'm going to try to upload from my builder and hope it can be made sense of.

Essentially the section that says unfinished basement is the theater. I'm highlighted out the actual walls within the basement to TRY to make it SLIGHTLY clearer. The screen wall is on the left I will have 13' interior width. The Length will be 20'. That 20 feet will take you back to a steel support beam. It's indicated where the wall in the middle of the basement starts. This is essentially where the issues come into play. Also, my ceiling hight as of now is 7'6". I would like to have 2 rows of 3 for seating. This is where ocnsiderations need to be made

There will be a stage, and a required bulkhead. I will have a false wall with all speakers behind an AT screen. I'm having a hell of a time factoring in what screen size to go with for the following reasons.

1.) I will be using Martin Logan ESL speakers for fronts and center. As well as 2 15" subs. Primary reason for this is I'll be working at a retailer over the holidays that has an employee incentive of 70% off. I can debate speakers all day long as to whats better and whats not, but at the end of the day, with that discount for the same money it's impossible to do better. That said, they are 51" OR 56" high depending which models I get. So this has to factor into the screen size as I have to stay within the screen dimensions. Consider a stage and bulkhead it's also whats led me to consider a 235:1 screen. I also have to factor in these speakers need about 2 feet from the back wall from their front and similar from the sides.

2.) Seating placement/distance requiired with 2 rows. I've found the narrowest seats I could within my budget, they are the Palliser Stereo. a row of 3 straight is 91" while a row of 3 curved is 102"

3.) Then there is the hight needed for the 2nd row riser making sure I'm visually ok to see over people while not smashing heads on the ceiling but at the same time considering viewing angle based on where the screen will be height wise. I'm thinking just having the seats on the riser and now the whole back platform because I will have to come into the room from the back. Hopefull you can all see in the floorplan where the stairs coming into the basement are

- Where will I access the batheroom that will be finished? It's seen in the plans in the bottom left corner. The section to the right of that will remain unfinished, but will clearly need to have access. To the RIGHT of the post there will be room for 1 door. Which means logically unless that door leads to 2 different doors or access to both bathroom and the unfinished space that an access door to the washroom will have to be IN the theater.





Please excuse the mess in this place right now. Things are being shuffled all over the place at the moment, but I only took them to TRY to give a better perspective of the builder floor plan.

Pretty much coming down the stairs and looking left.



Here you can see the post behind the water tank (I'm having the tank, all that plumbing and softener moved to the other side behind the furnace. Also in the back where the rough in for the bathroom is. BTW it's 11'9" from the post to that left side wall of the theater. I also do have room on the left side of the post for a door to wherever it shall lead.



Pretty much stainding middle of the room in line with the post or where the back of the room can go to looking at where the screen will be. I'm fine wil covering up that window. Again, please excuse the mess. As for all that ductwork, it's all being moved way over to where bulkheads will be.


So again.... at this point, I'm looking to get help finalizing if I can get 2 rows in here. Where would you guys suggest entry door to theater, bathroom, and also the utility area. AAnd finally based on all that, what screen size can I get in there to work with appropriate distance from front row while getting all the speakers behind it. FYI, I am open to 16:9 or 235:1.

Would you believe I'm likely at 100+ hours of research thus far, and THIS is where I'm still at. That said, once these decisions are made, I have a path for likely every possible option already laid out.

Much appreciated!

MIke
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post #2 of 37 Old 11-16-2013, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 37 Old 11-17-2013, 10:20 AM
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20 ft room budget.

2 ft for the false screen wall holding a 130 inch wide acoustically transparent 2.35 screen

11 ft from the front of the screen to the front edge of the riser.

7 ft deep riser with the second row a scant 6 inches off the back wall.

It would be better for the second row if you could squeeze the screen wall down a bit and invest the savings in the rear wall spacing. In-wall main speakers is one strategy, On wall speakers another.


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post #5 of 37 Old 11-17-2013, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, the current plan is to go with Martin Logan FX2 for sides and surrounds.

Given the limited space, and also the height being limited by the bulk heads I was thinking of only raising the riser directly below the seats, and clearly in front, and having just a step up on the side. This would linmit the head room loss towards the sides, but also allow for better entry into the room. That said, on the chairs, all I can find dimension wise is the actual seat epth, height and arm height. I don't know the actual footpring dimension. On a similar model they have all the specs and if I work some math backwards on whats missing from my model it seems like they are 40" deep, and if the repline amount out is the same 66" with recline.. Would that not mean I could get away with a 5 ftt deep riser? Leaving enough room in front, and to allow the charit to fit fully on it? I suspect from there all I'm not allowing for is the 6" possible recline from the chairs in the front row?! Also, there is the option of picking up about 6-8 additional inches in the back by dropping the wall a little further back. If I can do that, and shave maybe 4" from the front I can pick up a full foot.

To your point of setting the front of the riser 11 feet back from the screen, given the number of rooms you've done, that will give me an ok viewing distance on a 130" 2.35 screen?
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post #6 of 37 Old 11-17-2013, 04:55 PM
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the rule of thumb that has always worked in my riser planning is 6 1/2 ft of spacing from back of the first row to the back of the second. Here is why. I'm 5-10. This isn't my reccomended spacing it was something someone was proposing for their theater and I did a demonstration. I'm not fully reclined and in use nobody goes all the way back either. Except for a nap



You could go with a 5 ft deep riser if you normally use the front row and when you have guests over and need to use the back row, pull the front row forward. I've seen guys use a 6 ft riser and still end up pulling the first row forward.

Alternatively you could go with non reclining seating in the second row.


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post #7 of 37 Old 11-17-2013, 05:12 PM
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here is example of 5ft riser with none reclining seats that i used in my space, the one advantage was i was able to squesze in 4 seats in the back row
but if i had the extra feet i would gone with two rows of reliners for sure.



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post #8 of 37 Old 11-17-2013, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snickers1 View Post

here is example of 5ft riser with none reclining seats that i used in my space, the one advantage was i was able to squesze in 4 seats in the back row
but if i had the extra feet i would gone with two rows of reliners for sure.


Your situation although more basement space is similar to mine. I either leave it open like you or close it off. This is a home I'm in maybe 5 more years and I worry about going too hard core will make selling more difficult. I won't be left with much more than what would look like a small lobby once I get to the bottom of the stairs to the front doors of the theater. I've contemplates building walls 2.5 feet out from each side leaving a 9 ft entrance to the theater. That way it's SOMEWHAT enclosed and there is space for the rears on the back wall, but it's not going to shrink the basement too much. Another thing that came up tonight was to maybe have dual 36" pocket doors. Open when theater not in use, but still have some containment in an enclosed space when it is.

Frankly my bigger concern remains access doors to the bathroom and what will be the unfinished space on the other side!

As I'll likely be gettting the screen from you, would you agree that 130" 2.35 is the way to go all things considered? With a screen height of 55" it will mean I can only use the Electromotion ESL, and cannot go to the Theos as they are 59" high. The bright side is they are FAR cheaper and still do sound great.
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post #9 of 37 Old 11-18-2013, 04:12 AM
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just because they are 59 tall doesn't mean they won't fit with a 55 inch screen you only need the driver(s) to aim out the screen, I'm not familiar with Logans just spouting generalities. Another thought is you could go with a hybrid 2.0 screen. same width just taller. You would just have to come to grips with black bars in both formats not just 16:9. Rich will make you anything you want.

As for the rest of the basement I can't tell diddly from the floor plan you posted I saved the picture and tried to work with it on my 24 inch monitor and can't make out enough details to offer advice.


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post #10 of 37 Old 11-18-2013, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, I know. I'm sorry. I will hand draw something out and post until I can find someone to help with software skills.

As for the Martin Logans, they are an electrostatic speaker. The entire panel is essentially the driver. 9.5" wide and 44" high. The bottom 15" is where the actual 8" sub for them is. The panel itself is essentially the tweeter and midrange/midbass driver.

That's a great consideration with Jeff. I'll keep it in mind. To be honest,I had no plans to get a lens anyways so I was already at terms with black bars spilling over the the frame for 2.35 content and clearly bars for 169. Thank you for opening the door back up to spending more money. wink.gif.
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post #11 of 37 Old 11-18-2013, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I'm no Picasso, but it will serve it's purpose.
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post #12 of 37 Old 11-19-2013, 04:14 AM
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put a door on the 4 1/2 ft wall to get access to the bathroom area.


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post #13 of 37 Old 11-19-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

put a door on the 4 1/2 ft wall to get access to the bathroom area.

Well that is the idea I was considering, but from there the question is where do I go? That would make a 10.5' x 12+' bathroom. I also need access to the storage area from there. I've considered the door where you suggest, a sort of hallway thats say 4ft deep that has a door directly in front and otherwise it runs say 4-5ft down to the "right" and opens into the bathroom. I've even considered the AV rack could be built into this space and beside it have what woul dlook like a storage cabinet. One side being access to the back of the rack, and the other side actually holding storage stuff. Not sure if that would look weird, both the roon access as well as the rack being in there.

Get ready for it! CLEARLY not to scale.

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post #14 of 37 Old 11-19-2013, 06:26 AM
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Can the inner ductwork be moved to the other side, and simply move the long run over?
Or do a wider/shallower profile in new sheet metal? This might allow for symmetrical
soffits and still give you enough headroom when combined with a low riser at one step
height. Then raise the second row seating with an island style riser, which is basically seating
plus foot room. If you put the riser at one step height, you could bring the riser right out to the
stairs if you are prepared to give up 7-8.5" of height.

It'd be a tight build needing careful placement of every inch.

Nighthawk.jpg 176k .jpg file

Are those Martin Logan panels capable of producing reference levels at the second row
seating distance? I have doubts, and if you are using an AT screen, why not three identical
speakers up front? I can see the value here, but I'd be looking to see if there's any horn or
compression driver speakers that might also net you a nice discount.
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post #15 of 37 Old 11-19-2013, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Ted, I actually work in the HVAC industry so all that related stuff is the LEASE of my worries. There are 3 runs coming off that main trunk that go into the bathroom/storage side, and 2 that would be in the theater anyways, and 2 more that go to the end and upstairs into the living room. My installers are pulling that main trunk all the way back essentially to the post with just some narrower runs tucked up against the beam.

The island style riser as you called it is likely the plan as well. The palliser stereo seats are 91" total width. Total room will be about 156". That's leaving me some decent room to still have some bulkhead for aesthetics. I do want columns on the side. At least 2 per side and they will have to be about 16" wide and 8" deep. The ML FX2 are about 7" deep and 14.5 wide. I want them concealed in there.

As for my discount options. I have access to Polk at 50% off, and similar on Energy. Anything from Polk same with Energy too. Also Denon at 55% off but the highest I can get there is an x4000. I will run this and based on timing and budget will be adding an Emotiva xpa 2 for the fronts and XPA 5 for the sides, center and surrounds.

As for why not all 3 towers. I called Martin Logan and did a little research. ES panels can be a very direct speaker and the worry evidently is really now getting wide dispersion from the center. Believe me i'd love this route. Retail on the stage x which from EVERY review I've read says it's amazing but still around 3500 bucks retail. In terms of the panels reaching reference level, the hope is with 400 watts RMS with 91db, I don't imagine how it would be an issue. I'm happy to listen to any and all thoughts though.

My bigger issue currently is trying to sort a 130" 2:35 screen up front and clearing a stage and bulkhead. I'm worried I can't get It high enough.
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post #16 of 37 Old 11-19-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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OOPs.... I missd the picture on my mobile device. Thanks for that, I appreciate it. Only drawbacks are that you've covered a 36" window. The only one left in the basement. The water tank is already being moved with the softener to behind the furnace under the stairs. There also has to be to code min 2 feet from front of furnace a door. Front of furnace faces towards the theater and scren. Sorry I know my lousy upload doesn't show that. I was also really ohping to keep the access to the bathroom and storage outside the theater. I don't want to be lugging things through the theater for storage. WORST case I thought maybe 2 doors. 1 for bathroom inside theater then one to the other side of the post for the storage. Thats a worst case though as I don't want to factor that door into the theater if I don't have too. Hence my last hand drawn update pic. Some varient of that perhaps.
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post #17 of 37 Old 02-20-2014, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Not being so foum savy has clearly left this thread twisting in the wind, but I do have an update and some questions for feedback from you guys. With the limited ceiling height of 7'6", I've had to go with 2x6 for the stage with 2 layers of 5/8 plywood on top before carpet. I have a 10" bulkhead and am using a 140" diag 2.35:1 screen as outlined in the pic I'll attach. The bulkhead for the screen wall is more for what I think is aestetics, as there is nothing hidden up there. The real "problem" is by using the ML Theor electrostats, there is a VERy narrow window between the driver and the panel itself fo rthe 3.5 screen frame to fint through without obstructing anything. You can faintly see the chalk line above the top frame to indicate where the bulkhead will be before the screen wall. Ignore the side bulkheads going all the way back, I had left for the afternoon while my GF's dad framed those up not fully understanding. Won't really affect anything so we left it.

At any rate, this puts me 11" from stage height to bottom of frame which is 3.5". What I'm looking for are some thoughts on how to finish this screen wall aestetically, and how to tie that into the stage. Not structure, more design. Wondering if I should curve the top, and should I make a 2x4 step just for looks, not function clearly. Hoping for some insight. Thanks guys.



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post #18 of 37 Old 02-20-2014, 01:19 PM
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From the rawlinsway:





If your stage is straight use a straight soffit, you can put the screen right up to it. just enough room for the french cleat to do it's thing. then surround the remaining open space with black panels, nothing needed on top.

Bacon Race, nothing but black front wall

DSC03999.jpg


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post #19 of 37 Old 02-24-2014, 01:12 PM
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Check my signature for my DIY Seymour Screen. I cover the entire minimalist screen wall there. Most of the ideas I stole from Big and too many others to mention.


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post #20 of 37 Old 02-25-2014, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. This is basically where things are at so far.
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post #21 of 37 Old 03-23-2014, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Bit of an update as to where things stand at the moment. Should be finished painting Wednesday or so.

With all the planning something is bound to be missed. At least thats what I'm telling myself. The equipment closet which has access from another door in a room around the corner that can be viewed in some of these pics. I left it open to the width size of a rack, not knowing exactly which model I'd go with at the time and was just going to basically build a ledge for it to get to the height and fill the top and bottom in. As you can see, I neglected that "detail". Any ideas on how to finish it now?













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post #22 of 37 Old 03-25-2014, 05:09 PM
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Looking good--nice progress over the last month.
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post #23 of 37 Old 03-25-2014, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Paint is finally done, will finish up lighting this week with the help of an electrician buddy, and then hopefully carpet before the end of next week. Will also pick up projector and screen next week sometime. Sometime around then hopefully source and select the granite for the bar tops. As most likely experience, the budget is totally destroyed so the bathroom will have to wait, and all the automated lighting and Irule remote tablet will have to wait. Sadly, so will the row of 4 seats. At least for a few months. I do have an acceptable sectional I can put in front of the wall in the meantime.

One thing I can't get my head around fo rthe life of me is rope lighting for behind the crown. Not sure wxactly what to buy and whats needed to run it properly. Prices are all over the map, I must be missing something!
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post #24 of 37 Old 03-26-2014, 02:07 PM
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Ok is it just me or we missing a bunch of pictures.

Keep up the good work


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post #25 of 37 Old 03-26-2014, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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hmmm. what pics were you thinking are missing?
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post #26 of 37 Old 03-27-2014, 12:45 PM
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the ones where you get all itchy building base traps and the screen wall build column and bar. They just appeared out of thin air I guess


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post #27 of 37 Old 03-27-2014, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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ahh yes. I just thought I'd spare everyone the painful parts. The traps actually weren't too bad. I'm not even just saying that cause my GF and her mom cut them all either. haha. The 58 bags of sand werent a blast, thats for sure though. I'm not much of a picture taker as you can tell from the beginning of the thread. Just kinda put my head down and go.

I'm also happy to report carpet company called today, we're booked for Thursday.
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post #28 of 37 Old 04-08-2014, 10:49 AM
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Nice crown... do you have a pic of the profile? Looks super clean.


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My personal theater build on Kempenfelt Bay, Barrie Ontario Canada
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post #29 of 37 Old 04-08-2014, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I think this is about as close as I can get you at the moment. IT's 4". It comes in 5 1/2" as well which I think I wish I did. Along with a million other things of course.
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post #30 of 37 Old 04-08-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk26 View Post


I think this is about as close as I can get you at the moment. IT's 4". It comes in 5 1/2" as well which I think I wish I did. Along with a million other things of course.

Where did you get it?


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My personal theater build on Kempenfelt Bay, Barrie Ontario Canada
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