Need more side surround!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 11-22-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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So I got a new receiver which now gives me HD audio. Pretty happy with it since it was mostly paid for with Credit Card points. I haven't had time to enjoy it much but that's not why I started this thread.

I wanted to throw this out there and see if it's possible.

Below is a picture of my HT seating area and surround speakers.
DSC01858-1.jpg

It's hard to see in the pic but the side surrounds are pretty much in between the 2 rows. The Klipsch S2's that I use have a woofer in the center and 2 tweeters each, one that fires towards the back row and one that fires towards the front.

The front row center is supposed to be the money seat, especially because the rear row doesn't have much distance from the rear speakers. However as I have noted before and to my ears the rear row surprisingly is where it's at when it comes to surround effects.
I'm sure the side firing tweeters in the rear speakers help out a lot with that.

I prefer the front because it is more enveloping when it comes to the video as well as I have bass shakers there as well, but I couldn't help to notice though how much better I like the surround in the back.

So now I've been tempted to consider adding some additional speakers to the side surround channels.

My thoughts about this are the following:

- I cant really get the same speakers because they simply don't fit, even if I could find them used since these are now discontinued.

- I know that when you do something like that you want to get something that matches in timbre and within the same range.

- Since this is mainly for surround effects some in walls that are close in range may do the trick.

- For short money I can attempt to use transducers like these and make some minor adjustments walls beside the front row.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-hdn-8-weatherproof-sound-exciter-transducer--300-387

- In my build I didn't do the double drywall and green glue so not concerned about about, just looking to get some greater surround impact in the front row.

I know wiring up another 8ohm speaker or transducer in series will result in 16 ohm load which should be fine, although it would probably result in less power to each device so probably requiring me to turn up the volume for the side surrounds.

The receiver can handle 4 ohms but I rather go the other way to be safe.

Wondering if you guys have any thoughts or opinions or what other folks have done in this scenario. I have seen a few people do additional sides but I don't know how that was handled.

Mostly kicking this around for now, and definitely test first before changing or cutting into anything.

Thanks,
oman321
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-22-2013, 10:32 AM
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Sending you down the rabbit hole... smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455111/when-are-multiple-side-surrounds-necessary

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #3 of 8 Old 11-22-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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You weren't kidding!! Thanks for the link, that puts the situation at the next level.

If I get my hands on some speakers that I could test out with I may give it a shot to see how it sounds but additional equipment to add delays and provide filtering are not likely to happen. Especially before a new projector tongue.gif

If anyone has done this without adding equipment for delays I'd love to hear about it.


Hmmm!!! maybe move the surrounds a little further up, though I wouldn't want to the muck up the sound in the back.
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post #4 of 8 Old 11-22-2013, 05:51 PM
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I run two sets of side surrounds, one for each row, and could not be happier. A couple weeks ago I had a problem with my miniDSP, which I use to add delay to the back row of side surrounds as per Erskine best practices, which rendered the back row of side surrounds dead for the evening. I happened to sit on the back row that night and noticed a large difference in sound envelopment compared to my normal listening experience. Since I am using monopole side surrounds I can't imagine compromising to one side surround for both rows. I have not noticed detrimental comb filtering or other effects that are often cautioned when this topic is brought up but I do believe our theater would be notably lacking without the side surround arrays.
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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First, what receiver and amp do you have?






PeterV
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post #6 of 8 Old 11-23-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback,

Brady84,

Your experience with lack of back surround seems to be how I feel about my front row. Did you resolve the issue with miniDSP?
I was hoping to be able and accomplish this by simply wiring additional speakers in series to my side surround speakers.

dragonleepen,

I have a Sony STR DH 740 it"s entry level but dedicated to the theater and offered all the features I was looking for. No amp at the
moment, other than the one for my bass shakers Partsexpress SA100.

I read elsewhere that with the typical size of a HT, a DSP would be set to 0 or off as far as delay. Thought maybe I could without a DSP
and raise volume for side surrounds as needed.

Thanks.
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post #7 of 8 Old 11-23-2013, 11:15 AM
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Another thread to look over.................

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488704/having-four-speakers-as-surround-for-two-row

Roger Dressler has some valid input regarding how to handle multiple array of surrounds. Roger knows his stuff due to working for Dolby Digital for many years. wink.gif

Roger visited my room and felt due to size of room...........comb filtering was not an issue. But I'm still thinking of using the Trinnov TEQ 12 channel next year when funds are available! Currently, I split side channels ie. side LR surround and amplify each separately............works like a charm using a Marantz 8801.

Dennis E. has mentioned several times dipoles work in pairs for multiple rows but are width dependent. My room is 17 feet wide and 6 Triad Silver LCR in-walls are the ticket for surround.
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post #8 of 8 Old 11-25-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info doublewing11,

Seems promising enough that I'll give it a shot once I get my hands on some speakers to see what happens. I'll test it out and if I like the results install them.

The Klipsch S2's that I have are supposed to be a Hybrid bipole/monopole design which they term WDST or something to that affect. A basic solution for me would be use in ceiling or in wall speakers immediately to the left and right of the front row as direct firing speakers for that row. Most likely would use in ceiling with a center tweeter that I could probably aim properly. The intention would be to hide the speaker behind the fabric panel anyhow so it will be out of site and an in ceiling wont seem out of place.

Again these are just possibilities that I would try if I could find speakers close in range to see how it performs. Won't hurt to try eventually, worst that could happen is that I'll need to return the speakers or use them elsewhere like the garage or something.
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