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post #1 of 69 Old 12-01-2013, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all! Long time stalker, first time poster... I am in the early repurposing stages of my build. Bought a newer house 2 years ago with a finished basement. I am nearly done unfinishing(TM) the soon to be theater side and am looking to bounce my plans thus far off of this great crew.

A little about me - I am pretty familiar with this world having worked at a custom HT installer and have followed this forum since I was a wee boy. I have aquired some equipment over the years, now a newer home with a room showing potential for a dedicated HT, and just enough time and money to scratch the itch. I am an avid woodworker/DIY'er and plan to undertake nearly all of this myself and enlist my neighborhood grunt labor as needed! So, here goes nothing!

Here are some basics:

The room
The entire space is about 11'10" in width by 29'10" in depth with the main celing height @ 7'8". There is a bulkhead housing the main I-beam, and HVAC supply ducts along with various plumibng and wiring - none of which can be moved (easily). The height in this area is ~ 6'8". I will attempt to add a few pics of the space as well as my rough sketch of the room and adjoining rooms/wall construction. I have a waste line occupying the future side wall of the build which creates an issue since it is not even tightly routed against the poured wall (plan is to custom frame this wall out such that the stud surface is proud of the waste line by ~1" to not give up as much room width - this is what was done when the room was finished by the builder, before I laid waste to it all...). The room also has a narrow to wider transition in the center of the room, which I plan to give up as shown in the plan attached.

The Plan
I am planning on creating a hallway to connect my basement woodshop/utility room to my basement door to make my life easier moving lumber, projects in the future and disconnecting any traffic flow thru my HT. So, this leaves the rough overall size of the HT room to be ~11ft x ~25ft. I plan to project on the "short" wall due to the bulkhead messing up reasonable projector throwing distances.

I am looking to create a soundproofed, dedicated room for 75% movies, 15% music, and 10% gaming (for future me and my kids eventually). I would like to have the main HT in the front with 2-3 HT seating in the front row, a riser for the entire rear of the room for a family friendly couch and/or seating inthe back to support gaming. I woudl like to plan for (considering I may not do it short term or long) a discrete gaming rig on the left and right rear sides at the extreme rear of the HT room. Perhaps just a connectivity plate on each wall for the essentials (power, HDMI, legacy I/O) with a 40" or so flat screen and even a small HTIB style surround sound. I would then plan to wire network provisions for those (2) and the primary theater to be used for multiplayer gaming.

The Goods
Here is what I am planning on buying in the future, or DIY'ing, and what I already own regarding equipment.
Screen: DIY, acoustically transparent, ~115" diagonal, 2.40:1 screen (Would like to discuss later regarding the constant area idea)
Projector: TBD
Pro/Amp(s): I own and old Outlaw Model 950 processor, and (7) M200 monoblock amps (200wpc), plan to upgrade the pro. once ready
Mains (own): Paradigm Studio 100v2
Center (own): Paradigm Studio CC (would like to move to LCR all being Studio 100's)
Surrounds (own): Paradigm Studio 40's (x2) and Studio 20's (x2)
Sub(s) (own): Paradigm Servo15, PS-1000
All else: Monster powercenter (old), DVD, gaming systems, etc.

Current Status
I am bearly done with the demo work - at least what is needed to start some relocation and planning processes. I am relocating an HVAC return vent to the future hallway to aide in the heating and cooling for the rest of the basement while also removing it from my list of problems from the new room. After that, I plan to start some basic framing and conduit routing in the ceiling joists prior to the clips and channel on the celing. Then some insulation, more framing, etc. My xmas list is full of items like whisper clips, RSIC-DC04, green glue, etc.

Questions as of now
1. Any alternatives for layout ideas or criticism from what I have on paper so far (sorry it is just paper for now, AutoCAD and 3d is in work).
2. Soundproofing - plan to simply space off framing on poured walls and then use ply/OSB first layer, GG, then DW (no clips or channel) - From various posts I have read, it seems Ted and others are saying this is all that is required for concrete foundation walls. I have seen others uing foamboard on exterior walls first, then airgap, then framing. What is best?. For back wall I plan to just build a double wall of 2x4 framing. For the shared interior wall with my bathroom area, I am looking for ideas. I am planning on just staggerstuding and the aligning my "new" wall toward the rear of the room with this staggered wall. Alternatively, I could use clips and channel for the shared wall and then transition to no clips/channel for the back half of the wall (not sure if this is recommended however). Celing will be clips and channel with ply/OSB, GG, then DW.
3. Planing on creating a double door entry way with the rack in betwen. It makes the wiring simple and short runs to the stage area.

Pics of room and crude layout sketch attached (hopefully, I am new at this!)
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post #2 of 69 Old 12-01-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Current State (19AUG2014):

90% OSB layer installed, door framing to tackle, lighting plan needed, DW+GG ceiling layer next in stage area
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Last edited by PApilgrim; 08-19-2014 at 07:50 PM.
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post #3 of 69 Old 12-01-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved for progress #2
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post #4 of 69 Old 12-03-2013, 10:01 AM
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Have you considered flipping the room end of end, and use the entry airlock area
to step up? Gives you a deeper AT space and you could shorten the room and have a hall
way of closets.

Are you going to rebuild the soffit area so it skims the HVAC sheet metal? Should gain a few
inches of head room. (I redid my HVAC sheet metal in a wider/shallower profile to gain a few
more inches of head room.)

Those airlock door swing won't pass code I expect. It's likely they will be required to swing into
the theater.
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post #5 of 69 Old 12-03-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I was originally planning on doing something like that actually. My major concern is with the surrounds - I have free standing Studio 20/40's that are bought and paid for so I would like to use them. So, my plan was to build in a decoupled box (much like for a can light) on the rear side channels (Studio 40's @ 21"x9"x12" deep) in those extra width areas so the room width woudl not be impacted too much. I just planned on letting the rear surrounds (studio 20's which are just shorter height) be stand/column mounted.

Slightly concerned about the entry flow. I think the riser would have to extend the full width of the doorway and then there would be a step down to the main floor as you turn right after entering the room. Since typical 3x theater seating is about 7.5'-8.5' (depending on if they are straight or angled), the walkway may be tight as the estimated finished room width would be ~11ft.

This reverse design would pretty much nix the rear gaming areas from my plans, but I was already leaning that way as I have an adjacent room and home theater that I could use to satisfy that need (when needed).

Overall, I prefer the reverse layout, and like your suggestions for the steps access also. Just not sure how to handle the surrounds. I sketched up another paperCAD dwg for discussion purposes. This revised layout would allow me to rotate the rack 90deg and face it into the room also.

Any thoughts? Thanks a lot for the feedback.

Reversed sketch
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post #6 of 69 Old 12-04-2013, 06:22 PM
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I'd pull the second row seating 3' off the back wall, for starters.

With the depth you have, you could do an acoustically transparent back wall with the rear surrounds hidden.
And ideally, you want the full width riser which can be put to work, if you cut vents into the back tri-corners
and fill the riser with insulation. Now you have a full range bass absorber. If you want to keep the riser height
lower, then you can add an island riser on top of the riser. This would be seating plus foot room.

Your Paradigm's aren't designed to be stuck in an enclosure... The acoustically transparent rear wall would hide
the rear surrounds but not box them in.

Why would you angle the seating in a narrow room? There's no need of it and It just eats up aisle space.

I actually prefer the rack outside the theater. Doesn't add heat load, light pollution, nor fan noise. Will need to
add an infrared repeater system though.

The 40's could be used in the future gaming room and you could buy pre-owned Paradigm dipoles for the side
surrounds.

Is the soffit hiding the HVAC rebuild-able? Seems to me you might be able to gain a few inches of height there,
and get rid of that awkward recessed area at the same time. And work in some screen spot lights.
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post #7 of 69 Old 12-04-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I am including a first draft of an AutoCAD layout so it is to scale and based on all these ideas. Some comments on your comments:

I had thought about dipoles when I was considering some reversed layouts as the only way to make it work. I realize my unwillingness to invest in a better suited speaker at the expense of the entire layout is not the best way to approach this. ADP (paradigm dipoles) are now on the longer-term shopping list. I like the idea of the acoustically transparent wall in the rear also - could you explain a little more about the vents cut into the back corners of the riser being a full range absorber? I was planning already in stacking triangular panels in the corners as bass traps and insulating the riser, but think you may be talking about something more.

Yes, angled seating is not needed - I had carried this through the design phase as they are typically wider than the straight IOIOIOI seating and I was concerned about walking space between the side walls. I am planning on straight theater seating in te first row, and a more kid friendly second row seating for the short term anyway - see layout attached.

I agree with your rack comments for the same reasons - I have been back and forth with the rack being outside the room from a child proofing standpoint, but that is easily handled and again a short term concern. I actually have a full rack that I lucked into but now think is overkill for what I need. I think a more custom DIY rack can produce the same or better results in a smaller package and look more custom. This is an old communications rack and is about 7ft tall. I would also need to invest hundreds in brackets, drawers, and general hardware it seems to make it viable for me.

I am attaching some more pics of my deconstructing progress from the thanksgiving holiday break focusing more on the upper bulkhead. I dont want to say that it is not an option to redesign HVAC, but even if I did raise the HVAC, the steel I-beam is flush to the bottom of the HVAC so I am not sure I gain much. The more I look into the room layout and your suggestion about reversing the room, I think (for an extreme approach) it makes more sense to stick to one row of seating and pull the screen in to about the center of the bulkhead allowing it to be the "soffit" over the stage. A little severe, but puts the screen at 15ft from the back wall which is decent for the projector and for the primary seating anywhere between. I have 4 butts in the family and would like to have a separate seat for them all, so 2 rows is best and what I want to try and accomodate. I am concerned about riser height & projector mounting height with regard to the bulkhead clearance also and have started to read the sticky thread on that topic.

AutoCAD layout: Theater_reversed_rev1.pdf 18k .pdf file

Bulkhead & progress pics



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post #8 of 69 Old 12-05-2013, 07:25 PM
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You could cut down that rack in height, with an inexpensive 4" angle grinder. And you could Ebay shelves.
Pretty much what I did for my first "real" equipment rack. I bought new face plates but with some equipment rolling
of late, I am seriously considering doing Stormtrooper1015 DIY face plates. -post 62:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1136907/project-internet-theater-build-color-and-decorative-panel-input-appreciated/60

You also could recess the rack flush with the wall framing and simply drywall over the rack, while leaving a cut out open area for what
rack space you do need. If you ever need more rack, then there's expansion room by cutting some drywall.

The full range bass trap uses vents cut into the riser in the back corners. post 14 - An excellent 4 page Dennis Erskine article on risers.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1043747/the-dark-knight-theater

The bulkhead does work for a one row in the wider space layout. The furnace air intake (or is it the exhaust) could be reworked
to square up and reduce, the footprint of the mid-room soffit.

A simple hinged wood frame with punched metal grill, painted with rattle can hammered finish paint could provide child
proofing.

Sightlines can be dealt with, using a side sightline drawing, to establish whether the second row can see the bottom of the
screen, over front row seated heads.
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post #9 of 69 Old 12-05-2013, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I will have to give the free rack a second thought - I have a little time on that one and since I plan to locate it outside the room, it can evolve separately from the room itself. I do really like the look of a nicely executed one, and Stormtrooper's looks amazing. Mine does not have any identification on it at all, but is a full height rack with a door on the front, open sides and rear with a few rails only. I will try and get a pic to add later. So you are upgrading your equipment and causing things to not fit in your current rack?

Excellent info on the riser construction and bass traps, thanks a lot. Straightforward to do, so that is now in the plans for sure.

The HVAC ducts are for the forced air outlet to the vents in the adjacent basement rooms and the first floor. I am just not sure if I could convince myself that it is worth that effort since the I-beam is still there - if it were just the HVAC it would be another story. I am actually working on creating a side elevation view now to help understand what my line of sight is for main floor seating, riser seating and projector throw. I hope to have that completed this weekend to add for everyone to review.

Regarding soundproofing of the concrete walls - is it everyones general concensus that an air gap, decoubled walls from joists via RSIC-DC04, and then insulation, OSB+GG+Drywall is enough? I plan to start framing in a few weeks and do not want to miss the boat on those walls.

Regarding the floor, I am not sure that the serenity mat is in the budget - given that, what is a reasonable plan for the floor?

Of course, last weekend I spent some time running 2" conduit for the projector wiring, and a run up either side for future proofing - some of this is in limbo with the working plan to reverse the layout now. I do prefer this layout as I said, and an anxious to see how the side view looks. More to come, really appreciate the feedback. It is wonderful to have some great resources to talk to about this - I have agonized over options for too long by myself!
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post #10 of 69 Old 12-06-2013, 08:30 AM
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My equipment upgrading usually equates to less gear (with more performance and functionality), in the av rack.
But the face plate cost does add up, while the shelves are reused.

Your HVAC ducts I would leave alone, since you have the waste line and steel beam right there. It's that
white pipe I would target, with it's 45 degree bend that created that additional boxed piece of soffit. I expect it's either
the air intake or the exhaust for the furnace. I'd looking to move straighten that pipe so the 45 degree bend happens
after it enters the wall. Then you can shrink the soffit's depth and have a straight edge. Failing straightening that edge,
I would have a curved symmetrical soffit of some sort.

That soundproofing plan is fine assuming you decouple the ceiling and that soffit too. I would further beef up the
backside of that furnace wall with a couple of layers of 5/8" drywall with GG.

Bass travels through concrete easily. The floor might represent a conduit for bass to escape the room.

BTW, there's a similarly excellent Dennis Erskine stage design article on the AVS that might interest you.
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post #11 of 69 Old 12-06-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. The amount of equipment was part of my cocnern since I have (7) of those outlaw amps plus the standard content.

Regarding the soffit: I was planning on rearranging some of those lines already and have determined what most are - fairly easy as the one you mention is a condensate drain from an attic airhandler and the other main offender is the whole house vacuum which is easily moved. I have a ton of low voltage stuff and cable to move (if possible) as the place was wired for a security system and has Cat5e routed to all the rooms heading for that white security system box you can see in post #7, first picture. If i can not make it squared off as you mention, I agree about the curved soffit and it may look nice as well if that ends up being the only way to handle.

The ceiling will be clips and channel and I am assuming I need to perform a similar step to the bulkhead with clips and channel. That may get a little tricky but is doable. I see from other posts and threads that vertical orientation of the whisper clip is possible, if needed anywhere. I was alos thinking of ways to further improve the sound abatement near the HVAC airhandler as it is noisy. I am not sure I have enough room to drywall the shop side of that shared wall do the proximity of the airhandler to the framing, so I may need to sheet the theater side. I could then leave an air gap, and build the new theater wall. I do not plan on finishing the interior of the shop walls so I should not create a triple leaf there.

Is using some 30# roofing felt on the bare slab floor and perhaps a thin layer of sheating worthwhile on the floor in lieu of serenity mat (or doing nothing)?
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post #12 of 69 Old 12-08-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a first DRAFT to share with the masses of the plan and side elevation view. I have continued to flesh out the "reversed layout" with the entry at the rear of the room. I spent some time reading the riser thread, and used some of the suggestions from that. I took a stab at seating (Palliser Bullets for layout purposes) and created a CAD version using the limited dimensions available and scaled the rest. I am anxious to see what everyone thinks of this first layout.

Here is the updated layout with NEW side view: Theater_reversed_rev2_8DEC2013.pdf 35k .pdf file

Regarding speakers: I plan to perhaps replace my Studio CC center channel with (1) of my now unused Studio 40's since they have a vertical driver arrangement (tweeter on top) and then use my Studio 20's in the rear acoustically transparent area of the riser and start shopping for a pair of ADP370 dipoles (v2 or v3 to match my existing setup) to mount to either side wall. Seem reasonable?

I unearthed the rack in my garage to add a picture of that in case anyone has any comments. It is large and has an adjustable rack portion inside the large outer cage which has the door. Like I said, not really any make/model info on it from memory but I will look over it again later once I get some help to move it. I think I will have to take an evening to look over this thing and see how much effort is involved to mount my gear. This is one area I will have to rely on this groups experience...

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post #13 of 69 Old 12-10-2013, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on my prelim layouts for the new guy? I really do appreciate the help in the planning phases. I wish I could reciprocate more but this is my first foray into a dedicated soundproofed space.

If I missed the secret handshake portion of becoming a new member, or if no one except Tedd has any love for Paradigm speakers, i can try and do better!

I plan to start cleaning the room a little tonite to begin mocking up screen size, seating distances, etc to see if my layouts feel in the ballpark.
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post #14 of 69 Old 12-10-2013, 03:20 PM
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Hey there, I have yet to start my actual build (still in planning), so I can't offer as much advice as I wish I could; however, I'd like to contribute a different way.  Far more people will see your reversed layout if you post the picture directly, as opposed to posting a downloadable PDF.  I'm posting your file below as a picture.  Folks will need to click on it in order to magnify.  

 

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post #15 of 69 Old 12-11-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks BrolicBeast - more visual is better, thanks for the tip.

I have begun to mock up the screen size out of a 12ft piece of drywall I liberated from the wall - it is only 48" in height vs. the ~59" I am planning, but has been cut to the right width (~105"). It is almost a visual of a scope screen ratio 2.4:1 at its current cut dim's. I am locating a loaner business (non-HT) projector to just throw and image on this screen to give me a rough idea of the feel of a screen this size (about 120" diag @ 16:9). I will post some pics once I have something worth showing - I know it didn't happen if no pics! smile.gif

Next steps are to mock up seating distances and riser height to further validate my layouts.

Also, I need to to figure out a plan for the riser and its proximity to the current door. Tedd mentioned the code related to door swinging into the room - was that just a concern with my dual door "airlock" concept in post # 1 or also with a single door (like in post #14)? I am hoping that with a single door, I can have it swing OUT of the room...
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post #16 of 69 Old 12-20-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought I would update with some progress (in words for now, pics to follow end of week once I have more to show):

I have begun a little framing work starting at what will be the left rear corner of the theater. This left wall (as viewed from seated position) will be decoupled from the foundation and celing joists with RSIC-DC04 clips. I am planning to notch most of these studs to slide the wall outward and not let the 4" waste line dictate my already narrow room width anymore than it has to (you can see this in Post#7 pic#2). Having just framed up a 10ft portion of this wall, I started to measure across to the right side wall (adjacent to the theater door) to check my room width. I calculate my finished width to be about 10.5ft using this construction on the wall adjacent to the bathroom: 1" gap to existing wall, new 2x4 wall, with OSB/GG/DW.

My question is - what is the best way to handle this right side of theater wall (adjacent to the door and bathroom)?

If I simply add clips and channel on this right wall, I would have a net loss of room width of 3" vs. about 5.375" with a "new" wall. That 2.375" gain in width is kind of attractive to go for. I am concerned about (2) things if I switch over to clips and channel here: (1) Soundproofing difference as compared to the separate wall, and (2) how to transition into the "new" wall section. Can you have part of a wall be clips and channel and then the remainder be rigidly attached to a new wall or should you use clips and channel for the whole wall? If the answer is to use clips and channel for the whole wall, I am then concerned if I will have adequate room to construct my deadvent setup in that 1'4" area shown in post#14. Decisions, decisions...
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post #17 of 69 Old 12-26-2013, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I have made some progress with framing over the holidays but not much for the same reason. Here are some shots showing the shared bathroom wall, rear theater wall and the left theater wall which has the waste line paralleling it. For the shared bathroom wall I was asking about in my prior post, I decided to just frame a new decoupled wall as opposed to a stagger studded or clips and channel for ease of install and options it gives me. For the waste line wall framing, I heavily notched the studs leaving about an inch of wood left and then reinforced each one with a metal framing strap to add back some strength. Once 19/32" OSB is installed, I don't think I will have any issues. There is still then about a 1/2" gap between the notch and the waste line. You can also see my Xmas gifts were of the theater variety - whisper clips for ceiling, RSIC01 (like whisper clips) and RSICDC04 clips, plus GG and GG sealant. New circ saw and Bosch vibratory tool too.





I used the RSIC-DC04 clips for the top plate to attach all these new walls to the existing parallel wall and/or joist. How much should you compress these RSIC clips for the single 2-1/2" drywall screw? I just tightened until the "feet" of the rubber bumper began to compress. I tried to get a pic of to show this clearly but this is the best I could get.



I was hoping for some input regarding my ceiling bulkhead framing - specifically on how best to decouple a bulkhead type area. Is it best to rigidly frame and then use clips and channel to decouple the OSB/DW or is it best to decouple the entire thing using RSIC-DC04 clips and then rigidly attach the OSB and DW later? Here are some recent pics of this area of the room now that I have all the old framing torn down.






There is a step up in my house HVAC supply line ducts also which will cause me to have to frame an angled area in the left corner and then either create a similar symmetric one inside the completed soundproofed shell later or just use the angled area as a feature and try and design with it later. Open to ideas on that as well… Vertical dimension to I-beam is 7ft, to lowest point of the stepped down part of the duct it is 6'8".

I am hoping that somebody can recommend another theater build which had some best practices for bulkhead framing or design ideas to keep the loss in ceiling height to a minimum as I am already forced to limit my screen size due to ceiling height and the viewing height guideline of at the bottom third of the screens height. Construction adhesive the OSB layer right to the underside of the I-beam???
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post #18 of 69 Old 12-26-2013, 03:36 PM
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Are you taking suggestions on equipment?
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post #19 of 69 Old 12-26-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Meaning HT equipment or tools???
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I have that same Steelers cup in the bottom picture. I look forward to watching this build thread.
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post #21 of 69 Old 12-26-2013, 08:12 PM
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Meaning HT equipment or tools???

Equipment.
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post #22 of 69 Old 12-27-2013, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I am open to suggestions sure. That's the best part of this forum - collaboration and being able to ask for advice. That said, my yet to be determined budget didn't factor in anything for gear except for cabling, a new processor to replace my outdated Outlaw one, and a projector.
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post #23 of 69 Old 12-27-2013, 09:00 AM
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I am open to suggestions sure. That's the best part of this forum - collaboration and being able to ask for advice. That said, my yet to be determined budget didn't factor in anything for gear except for cabling, a new processor to replace my outdated Outlaw one, and a projector.

I was going to suggest for speakers that you should take a look at JTR, I say that because I was all set on buying the same speakers you have listed. I wanted to get the Studio 100v5's and CC-690 center channel, I thought they sounded awesome when I demoed them in the store. Then my buddy was able to hook me up with a opportunity to demo them in my theatre room for a week, the more I watched material on them the less I liked them. They sounded great down low, but the louder they got the more they hurt my ears.

I typically watch movies around -15 to -10, at -10 I was no longer enjoying how they sounded. I really don't like to say to much bad about them and they do have a pretty big following. I would of gotten a pretty awesome deal on them too, but I just couldn't drop that kind of money on speakers that I didn't love.

In the end I took a blind leap of faith after months and months of research and ordered some JTR Noesis 228HT speakers for my LCR setup. I can honestly say without a doubt that for movies these are the best sounding speakers for movies under $2000 a speakers. To give you an idea of what other speakers I demoed, here's a short list.

Studio 100's, Klipsch RF7-II's & RC-64 centre channel, Klipsch Ultra 2 KL-650-THX and some Focal Chorus 826V & 800CC.

Speakers are such a personal thing in my opinion but I think you should at least do a little research on JTR speakers and try to see if there's someone close to you that you could go listen to them.
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post #24 of 69 Old 12-27-2013, 09:30 AM
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Also if you're looking to spend that much on a Paradigm Servo 15, you should consider dual Rythmik FV15HP's for the same amount of money.

The construction of your room looks to be coming along very nicely too! If you're considering a DIY AT screen another good option for you might be to look into a screen from Jamestown.
He seems to build some fairly nice looking AT screens using the Seymour XD material and some very reasonable prices.
http://www.jamestownhometheaterscreen.com/seymour_screenDiagonal.html

From looking at his web page the largest screen he offers comes in at $600. So that's a pretty reasonable price. I've just redone my front wall and switched over to a front stage/false wall with a AT screen. If you were maybe considering buy a little nicer premade screen you should take a look at Falcon Screens.
http://falconscreens.com/

Forum member Rich aka (snickers1) started up the company and he offers a really nice alternative to the SeymourAV screens that are actually a few hundred dollars less. And if you contact him I believe he offers AVS members a little bit of an additional discount. At least he use too, I ended up ordering a 120" 16:9 screen from him and saved just over $250 over the Seymour screen. One other thing is his screen material, its a weave like Seymour's but it's a little finer of a weave so it's less noticeable then the XD material. I was originally wanting to get a screen from Seymour but I could see the screen weave at about 9-10ft, and with my seating 11.5ft from the screen I was a little concerned about that. With the Falcon material from the reviews coming back from customers that have compared the two, its much harder to see the Falcon weave. And it isn't really noticeable until you are about 5-6ft away, which is much closer.

There's also a forum member that has switch from Seymour's much costlier option of the Enlightor 4K material, and loves the Falcon material. Saying that it's much brighter and stating that he can't see the weave until he's very close to the screen. The weave in the XD material was also the reason he went with the Enlightor 4K screen. I'm really not trying to say anything bad about the Seymour screens because Chris was really great for me to deal with and answered all of my questions. But at the end of the day I wasn't crazy about seeing the weaver in the XD material and there was no way I was going to spend that kind of money on the Enlightor 4K screen for the size I wanted and how dim the screen was.

I really think the Falcon Screens is a nice happy medium between the high end Seymour Enlightor 4K screens and the XD screens.
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post #25 of 69 Old 12-27-2013, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I was going to suggest for speakers that you should take a look at JTR, I say that because I was all set on buying the same speakers you have listed. I wanted to get the Studio 100v5's and CC-690 center channel, I thought they sounded awesome when I demoed them in the store. Then my buddy was able to hook me up with a opportunity to demo them in my theatre room for a week, the more I watched material on them the less I liked them. They sounded great down low, but the louder they got the more they hurt my ears.

I typically watch movies around -15 to -10, at -10 I was no longer enjoying how they sounded. I really don't like to say to much bad about them and they do have a pretty big following. I would of gotten a pretty awesome deal on them too, but I just couldn't drop that kind of money on speakers that I didn't love.

In the end I took a blind leap of faith after months and months of research and ordered some JTR Noesis 228HT speakers for my LCR setup. I can honestly say without a doubt that for movies these are the best sounding speakers for movies under $2000 a speakers. To give you an idea of what other speakers I demoed, here's a short list.

Studio 100's, Klipsch RF7-II's & RC-64 centre channel, Klipsch Ultra 2 KL-650-THX and some Focal Chorus 826V & 800CC.

Speakers are such a personal thing in my opinion but I think you should at least do a little research on JTR speakers and try to see if there's someone close to you that you could go listen to them.

I actually already own all the speakers and have updated my first post to make that clearer. I worked at a local HT store which sold Paradigm so I was able to purchase equipment through accomodation programs. The Studio 100's are v2 as are all the other center/surround Studio gear. The Servo15 sub and PS-1000 are owned as well.

I could not agree more with you about speakers being a personal choice. Truth be told, I really prefer the sound of horn tweeters and always planned on buying klipsch gear. I own a small set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers which to this day I enjoy listening to. KSB series if I remember correctly, nothing high-end. So, I am not planning on repurchasing anything right now since I would not NEED to, but will look at that as an area to improve in the future. I will need to try and locate some Paradigm dipoles for my side surrounds though as discussed earlier in the post. I have always been a fan of trying to match drivers, where possible.
Quote:
I really think the Falcon Screens is a nice happy medium between the high end Seymour Enlightor 4K screens and the XD screens.

Excellent info regarding the Falcon screen option - I will be focusing frst on this now when I get closer to that point. I am hoping to find some forum members near me as a progress through my build to bounce ideas off of as well. I really have yet to hear the difference a soundproofed room makes - and it is what I am working so hard to achieve!

Thanks for the feedback.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PApilgrim View Post

I actually already own all the speakers and have updated my first post to make that clearer. I worked at a local HT store which sold Paradigm so I was able to purchase equipment through accomodation programs. The Studio 100's are v2 as are all the other center/surround Studio gear. The Servo15 sub and PS-1000 are owned as well.

I could not agree more with you about speakers being a personal choice. Truth be told, I really prefer the sound of horn tweeters and always planned on buying klipsch gear. I own a small set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers which to this day I enjoy listening to. KSB series if I remember correctly, nothing high-end. So, I am not planning on repurchasing anything right now since I would not NEED to, but will look at that as an area to improve in the future. I will need to try and locate some Paradigm dipoles for my side surrounds though as discussed earlier in the post. I have always been a fan of trying to match drivers, where possible.
Excellent info regarding the Falcon screen option - I will be focusing frst on this now when I get closer to that point. I am hoping to find some forum members near me as a progress through my build to bounce ideas off of as well. I really have yet to hear the difference a soundproofed room makes - and it is what I am working so hard to achieve!

Thanks for the feedback.

Oh okay, I thought you might have the speakers too but wasn't sure as it read to me that you had the older Outlaw receiver but I wasn't sure about the speakers. Yeah I was offered the store floor models at cost because of my buddy that worked at the store that let me demo them.

I'll be able to post a little more of an opinion once I get my Falcon Screen in January and let you know some thoughts and post some pictures too.
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post #27 of 69 Old 04-10-2014, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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So... It's been awhile. I am planning, 3d modeling, and generally scheming every spare minute I can muster.

Some quick updates since my last updates:
+More framing of the side walls is now complete
+I have started the bulkhead area framing around my I-beam and HVAC ducts
+Planning on MAX screen width I can cram into the room @ 2.4:1 (120" width currently)
+Plan to use Triad (bronze?) onwall dipoles due to small form factor as my aisle ways are tight due to a narrow room (I show them in the model pics below)

Next steps:
+I plan to have the "stepped-down" portion of my HVAC supply rectangular ductwork replaced with a new arrangement just in that area to regain a few inches of ceiling height. I have a call in to my HVAC guy for this redo...
+More framing of side walls to reach what will become the new front wall of the room

HELP!:I am interested in some thoughts and opinions on my HVAC & deadvent plans. I am planning on a 12k BTU Mitsubishi ductless Mini-split located centered on the rear wall of the room forcing air toward the screenwall. I also plan to exchange the air in the surrounding areas of my finished basement as shown in the series of screengrabs below. RED is the hot-air return from the room - located on the lower face of the soffit; BLUE is the cold-air supply which is to enter the theater via 2 vents located just in front of the AT screenwall in the celing. These are all planned to be feed using 6" flex duct routing thorugh plenum boxes and then nailor type diffuser grilles (4"x36" seems to be the going suggestion...).









I have been pondering this a lot so it was time to get this out for feedback. Regarding the deadvent locations I propose and the mini-split... I have a lot of experience with these min splits having had several in my old house for primary heating and cooling. They are always ON circulating a little air in order to sense the temperature, humidity, etc of the room air. When the minisplit is running to cool the room, the rooms airflow current will be forcing my HOT air from the warm bodies and projector away from my proposed return vents and toward the screen wall vs. being drawn up into the adjacent soffit returns. My feeling is that this will cause more turbulence in the air in the room, but I will still get mixing of fresh air with stale air and be pulling the "hotest" air out of the room due to the high mounted returns.

Am I overthinking this? I am not certain of how much the minisplit will be running for the scenario I describe to occur. My feeling is that the return vents will pull much of the hot air out of the room before the entire room has a chance to warm up the majority of the room, therefore not kicking on the minisplit right away. As a side note, these miniplits have an option for an IR heat scanning mode to scan the room for where the hot spots are and aim the airflow at this area. This can be disabled and you can manually "steer" the airflow.

Other areas for thoughts:
+Deadvent fans - I know the soundproofingcompany recommends the Fantech FG6XL. Many use the more cost effective FR150. Any thoughts on pro's/con's?
+With my room volume and the rated CFM of the smaller FR150, I am computing around 4x/hr turnover which seems OK.
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post #28 of 69 Old 05-20-2014, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I had my HVAC guy come in and reconfigure the main floor/basement supply ductwork to regain approx 3.5" of even ceiling height.

Here are some before pics:





Before he could start, I had to remove the water lines, condensate drain and the whole house vac lines so he had room to work.

After pics (after I put all lines back also):





Next step is to start to clear out the would be media rack area and start scheming about electrical.
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post #29 of 69 Old 06-26-2014, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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First MAJOR progress update here - exciting times on the Hill. Consider this partial update #1 .

I had a free week in the evenings and a solid weekend without the wife and kids last week; so, guess where I spent it.

CABLING
I placed the first BIG Monoprice order for all major cable needs for the room including all speaker cables. I decided on 12/2 for all (7) channels and then cheaped out and went with 14/2 for the (8)-(11) channels (wides and heights) since I somehow doubt this will be heavy content and may never be used... Due to my rack being placed at the back of the room (and outside the room), I went with the redmere HDMI cables to ensure I get a quality signal - it was a 60ft cable to get to the stage feed which I intend to possibly use for xboxONE since needing a kinect sensor wired to it in close proximity.

I routed speakers, stage needs (HDMI, 12v triggers, a bundle of CAT5e's, two sub signal feeds), the projector feeds (HDMI, 12v trigger, another bundle of cat5e) and then also routed some cables to the rear wall of the theater where I plan to have some general connectivity for old game systems (component, composite, HDMI, Toslink, 12v trigger, analog audio, and 2 more pairs of subwoofer signal cables for mucho-sub-o in the future). I started a thread separate for what everyone felt were good recommendations for projector wiring (Suggested list of cables to projector?. Based on this feedback, I may be routing some CAT6 to the projector.

I also routed (3) 12/2 power feeds from a new subpanel to the rack area to take care of any and all needs there. I routed a single one to the stage for subs up there too. I think all other AC lines will be pulled through the fishbowl once I have the room sealed off. I plan for all lighting to be done in the soffit.

Here are some pics to show the mess of wiring coiled up at the future rack location just right adjacent, but outside, the theater entry door. I am not sure I dig the new AVS method of picture posting - anyone else agree?
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post #30 of 69 Old 06-26-2014, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Partial Update #2

Room Construction

I completed the wiring (A/V and AC) and then finished off some remaining DD on the subfloor above. I then shoved some not-so-pink fluffy in the ceiling. My builder decided that a non 16" or 24" joist spacing was a great idea, so that was a bit of a decision point. My spacing is around 19", so I ended up going with unfaced R11 23.5"x3.5"x8ft batts and I then just turned the ends up into the webs of the joists since I had no desire to be cutting all that insulation. It honestly worked well, fit nicely around my various metal round HVAC ducts, dryer vents, etc. Still a good air gap in the center, which I understand is a good thing here. So, I need a little more ceiling insulation to complete.

Finished out the (decoupled w/ RSIC) bulkhead framing around the main HVAC supply ducts in the center of the room. Since I had them reconfigured to gain several inches of ceiling height (prior post), it made this job a little easier.

I finally found a good local (Hagerstown, MD) source for the 7/8" 25GA channel for my ceiling clips (Whisperclips). It was WAY cheaper than I expected by going direct to them - Lowes quoted almost $8 for a 10ft piece and made the mistake of mentioning where they could order it from locally for me. So, I got mine for less than $3 a piece and now have a ton extra... I got a little excited when they asked me how much. Picture of the first major supply run attached below - got the insulation there too as it was also a good price. I have to say, the clips and channel installation was painless and enjoyable after some of the other phases so far. You can cover a lot of ground quickly, and the whisperclips coupled with an impact driver make this quick (pics below).

Questions:
  1. Any suggestions for deadening the metal HVAC supply surfaces at my center of room bulkhead? I am contemplating a roll of Dynamat or similar to quiet these and keep HT sound from reaching them...
  2. Any steps I am missing???


NEXT STEPS:

  • Finish conduit routing at projector
  • Dream up a backer box to hang on/near the ceiling channel to encapsulate the projector wiring (I have no clue about what to do about a projector mount yet...)
  • Total up my needs for 5/8" OSB (first layer) and 5/8" Fire code DW (second layer). Anyone wanna convince me not to do the OSB for ~$0.30 more/sheet?
  • Begin operation "borrow a drywall lift" from network of friends
  • Need to firm up my dead vent and mini-split design plans
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