The Phoenix Theater Build Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 156 Old 08-16-2014, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
1. Details are still being released, but a common theme stressed by Dolby and noted by those involved in the system's development is that timbre-matching all of your speakers in the system is critically important. Moreover, the radiation pattern of that speaker is recommended to be 90x90...or in other words, the same focused dispersion pattern in both horizontal and vertical axis.
The reason I was thinking that maybe it would be okay to have ceiling speakers that didn't match the others was the fact that they will be offering "add-on speaker modules" that add up-firing capabilities to your existing speakers. The white paper stresses that you don't need to give up your existing speakers. Now, there's virtually no way that those speaker add-ons will be voice matched with the majority of speakers that they are added to... which suggests to me that the ceiling sounds aren't as critical to be perfectly matched. But yeah, you're right that the white paper is incredibly light on useable details.

As far as the ceiling speakers being 90x90... I wonder how you can tell if the documentation doesn't say anything like that?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 156 Old 08-17-2014, 04:31 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
The reason I was thinking that maybe it would be okay to have ceiling speakers that didn't match the others was the fact that they will be offering "add-on speaker modules" that add up-firing capabilities to your existing speakers. The white paper stresses that you don't need to give up your existing speakers. Now, there's virtually no way that those speaker add-ons will be voice matched with the majority of speakers that they are added to... which suggests to me that the ceiling sounds aren't as critical to be perfectly matched. But yeah, you're right that the white paper is incredibly light on useable details.

As far as the ceiling speakers being 90x90... I wonder how you can tell if the documentation doesn't say anything like that?
I was going by memory and was slightly off....the dispersion pattern should be minimum 90x90. From the bottom of page 8 in the Dolby Atmos White Paper PDF:

[/quote]Dolby recommends ceiling speakers with wide dispersion patterns. If you use ceiling
speakers with narrow dispersion (less than 90 degrees x 90 degrees) or those with aimable
drivers, angle the drivers slightly toward your listening position.[quote]

As for the timbre matching, I also should have been more clear - as you would expect, having everything timbre-matched is the recommended ideal. There's absolutely no way Dolby is expecting that every system have the same type of speakers. Heck, in their most recent "home" demo rooms, THEIR speakers are different and not completely timbre-matched. Many in attendance mentioned this. And let's face it, to be successful, Dolby needs your average Joe to buy in to the technology, fully expecting that *any* sort of ceiling speakers will be used and mounted just above a dusty Billy Bass and store-bought "art" hanging on the walls.

Apparently Dolby is preparing to make another round of announcements with even more technical details during CEDIA and shortly thereafter. Since you have attic access and the ability to cut into the ceiling after-the-fact, I'd just run four speaker wire tails up into the attic and wait for the whole matter to be sorted out.
granroth likes this.
TMcG is online now  
post #123 of 156 Old 08-17-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Insulation - August 17, 2014

Talked Down from the Ledge

I mentioned in my earlier update that I had installed outlet boxes in the walls and was vacillating on whether or not that was a good idea. Well, when @cw5billwade voiced his concerns, my doubt kicked into high gear and I was just seconds from going back in the room and ripping them all out! My wife talked me down from ledge, though. In the end, I'm going to keep them where they are and use them as my entry points for the outlets for the rest of the room, rather than run the outlet cables through the soffits/columns. I'll still have the speaker wire and lighting cable run through there, but not the outlet cable.

I wrote up an entry on how I applied the putty pads to the boxes in the Soundproofing Master thread: Applying Putty Pads.

One thing I didn't show in that bit was how I set the depth of those adjustable boxes. Those who have followed this build thread know that I try to avoid actually measuring things whenever possible and this wasn't an exception. It just so happens that I had some thin pieces of the actual 5/8" drywall that will soon be installed, so I just stacked up two of them and extended the box to be flush with them:



Insulation!

After the outlets were all prepared, I could start on the insulation. Well... technically I did all of the insulation except for the outlet bays, but conceptually the putty pads did need to happen before insulation. I had three left-over batts from a previous insulation task and so those went up first:



Those are paper faced, which isn't at all needed in AZ. In fact, you really shouldn't have a vapor barrier at all in block homes in AZ, so I was considering removing the paper again. The remainder of the insulation was some new batts I bought at the same time as the lumber and drywall. The supplier only had insulation intended for steel stud walls in stock. It is fiberglass, but it's a full 24" wide rather than the nominal 23" found in batts intended for wood framed walls, and was the full 8' high, rather than the 7-9" found in typical batts. It also looked quite a bit different:



It installed similarly to normal batts, but that extra inch did cause it to bunch up a bit more on the edges. I was tempted to shave an inch off of each one... but honestly, it wasn't too bad, so I just left it.

Sharp eyes may notice a hole and what looks like water on the paper faced insulation in the background of the photo of the package of new insulation. Yep, that is water. It turns out that some water had gotten under the paper and had pooled there. When I installed it upright, quite a bit of it poured out of that hole. That convinced me that yes, I did need to remove the paper from the batts, if for no other reason than to dry them. Better believe that those dry in a hurry in 115 degree rooms.

I carved out the space for the outlet boxes, after the putty pad was installed. The putty was still sticky, so it actually stuck to the insulation a bit. You can see how much the extra-wide batts bunched up in some cases, in this picture:



Notably, working around the cable in the walls was a lot easier than expected. Since I put the cable so far back in the wall, I found that I didn't need to really split the batts like I typically did. There was enough slack in the cables to essentially be pushed back by the batt, too. All in all, it worked very well.

It took me a couple of days, since I had to break for installing the putty pads, but in the end, all of my walls were insulated!





Lesson's Learned

If I had to take away some lessons from this bit of the construction, they would be:
  1. Run cable as far back and as low in the wall as you can
  2. Use insulation batts designed for wood framed walls, if possible

I used the steel frame batts because I got a good deal on them and they could deliver it along with the rest of my load. Otherwise, though, it was notable to me how much easier it was to install batts made for wood frame walls. That extra width and height weren't terminal, but they did make it harder. Also, the steel frame stuff was substantially itchier than the white stuff.

Next Step

The next logical step is drywall! Man, so much of me wants to just do that, since it's such a big milestone. However, my practical side has won out in this case. Why? Well, there's still a decent amount of stuff that will need to be done in the attic after the drywall is up and, frankly speaking, my formal attic access hatches are pretty terrible. I've really been loving the extremely easy access I've had to the attic from having no ceiling. I decided that I'm going to make a decent attic hatch in the bathroom that adjoins the theater, which will allow me to haul stuff up there after the fact. And since it'll be a lot easier building the hatch from the attic, it makes the most sense to do that while I still have easy access.

So next week will be all about preparing the attic for the time when my open ceiling is gone. THEN it'll be time for drywall. Sooooo close!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6238.jpg
Views:	341
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	216521   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6232.jpg
Views:	338
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	216529   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6225.jpg
Views:	339
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	216537   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6200.jpg
Views:	336
Size:	62.4 KB
ID:	216545   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6195.jpg
Views:	336
Size:	42.7 KB
ID:	216553  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6166.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	216561   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6165.jpg
Views:	335
Size:	54.5 KB
ID:	216569   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6163.jpg
Views:	334
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	216577  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #124 of 156 Old 08-17-2014, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Pre-Drywall Soundproofing Baseline

The primary part of my soundproofing solution hasn't yet been implemented, since it's cornerstone is the drywall. That'll give me the majority of my Mass, Decoupling, and Damping. I do have my Absorption layer up, though, as well as the massive door. So I was curious how well the current setup worked, to give me a baseline when the drywall was up.

Alas, I don't have any portable way of producing any decent bass, so my (very quick and informal) tests were using an iPad hooked up to my Bose Wave Radio (circa 1999). I ran the Audio Tools suite on both the iPad and on my iPhone. The iPad was generating pink noise while the iPhone was used to run an RTA between 0 and 20kHz and the SPL calculation was flat, with no weighting.

Ambient

To start, I took measurements to establish my baseline of ambient sound. With everything off, I took measurements in the theater; just outside the theater door; in our living room opposite the theater; and down the hall in my son's bedroom. The ambient sound is surprisingly noisy in a few places. In particular, we have a ton of cicadas outside that are quite audible inside which meant that the noisiest place was in our living room. The two that matter, though, are just outside the theater and in my son's room:




If I re-ran the test in my son's room with A-weighting, then it might well be a lot lower than 35dB. It's subjectively very quiet in there.

Open Door Policy

The first test was to turn on the pink noise in the theater, which registered at 81.7dB. Noisy but not deafening by any means. I then ran the series of measurements with the theater door wide open. The results for outside the theater and in my son's room are:




Note that the graph for frequencies under 250Hz are scarcely changed. Yeah, my Bose Wave Radio doesn't have a lot of lower end grunt. The SPL for my son's room is roughly the same as ambient, but that's deceptive, since it sounded quite a bit different. That is, the pink noise, while not loud, was clearly audible. That's likely those frequencies that dip above 20dB in the graph.

Closed Door

I then closed the door, which shows the state of my theater so far.




That's a 22dB drop just by closing the door. Not bad. The pink noise is very clearly audible outside of theater, but it doesn't sound loud anymore. The graph for my son's room actually shows it to be quieter than ambient, but it's not really. The pink noise is just barely audible in there -- to the point that if the ceiling fan was running (which it does every night), then you wouldn't be able to hear the noise from the theater at all.

Conclusions

Since I can't get any decent bass nor can I get the source sound to be closer to 90 or 100dB, I can't say for certain how a movie would sound in the theater now. Still, it's not bad.

I will say this -- it gives me hope that my practical goal will be achieved while starting to dash my hopes that my fantasy goal will be achieved.

My practical goal is to be able to play a movie at full tilt with NONE of the sound getting down to the bedroom wing of the house; no outside sound coming in; and very little escaping from the outside. Considering how close I'm getting with no real soundproofing in place, I'm pretty hopeful that I'm going to hit that target.

My fantasy goal is to be able to play a movie at full tilt without you being able to hear it at all when standing just outside the door. That is, I want to be able to take a guest up to the door without them having any clue that something is actually running and when I open it, a massive rush of sound would pour out. It's pointless, but cool. I... don't think I'll hit that goal anymore. The door is just too much of a weak point, here, I think. We'll see.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6222.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	39.9 KB
ID:	216609   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6220.jpg
Views:	339
Size:	41.2 KB
ID:	216617   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6219.jpg
Views:	336
Size:	39.9 KB
ID:	216625   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6217.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	41.5 KB
ID:	216633   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6215.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	39.9 KB
ID:	216641  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6213.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	40.3 KB
ID:	216649  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #125 of 156 Old 08-18-2014, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
did you see my comment in the sound proffing thread ref putty pads?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #126 of 156 Old 08-18-2014, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
did you see my comment in the sound proffing thread ref putty pads?
Yep. I check the Soundproofing Master thread every time I check my subscribed threads


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #127 of 156 Old 08-19-2014, 05:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
The elictrican who wired my house does a lot of comercial work i.e. hotels and the like an when they do wiring for a sound proof conferance room this is how it is installed. Putty on the back side of the drywall.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #128 of 156 Old 08-24-2014, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Attic Hatch - August 24, 2014

Hot Hot Hot

I spent the week creating a simple attic hatch in our hall bathroom. That's substantially less than I thought I'd get done in the attic, but at least is covers the necessities. That is, my next step is drywall and the instant my ceiling is up, I'll have essentially sealed myself off from any reasonable access to the attic. So a new hatch needed to be done.

The reason I didn't get as much done as I wanted? In a word: HOT! I'm going to have a little pity party now and describe how it went.

First, I don't think the perception of heat is linear but, much like sound, is on a logarithmic scale. People perceive sound volume as doubling every 10 decibels -- 60 dB is twice as loud as 50 dB, which is already twice as loud as 40 dB, and so on. Heat works like that over 100 degrees F. Every 20 degrees "feels" like the temperature has doubled. So 120F feels twice as hot as 100F and 140F feels twice as hot as 120F. That's my personal theory.

This matters because the temperature up in the attic hovered between 140F and 145F the entire time I was up there. A sampling:



I was all glib about the temperature because I've been working well in the 115F temps in the theater space, and can essentially work indefinitely as long as I have some air flow, some water, and a towel to keep the sweat from my glasses. How different could the attic be?

See above for my logarithmic scale theory. 140F is a night and day difference from 115F. A fan does nothing because it just emulates a convection oven. Wearing gloves is critical because everything you touch is painfully hot -- I burned myself touching a nail head through a hole in my gloves. Heck, even some tools will stop working. I discovered that my laser range finder has a special icon that it flashes to say that it's far too hot to work:



The end result of this was that I couldn't stay up there for more than 30 minutes at a time, at best. We're talking well beyond sweating and fully into dizziness and feeling ill territory. After the initial 30 minutes, I'd come down and cool-off for 15 minutes and then go back up. Those subsequent visits were limited to 10 minutes before I couldn't take it any more.

So, long story a little shorter, I may have spent a week working on this, but the actual amount of time in the attic wasn't much, and was utterly miserable.

Restructure

I did waste a day clearing out insulation from above our office, since the joists run parallel to where the hatch could go, there. Parallel joists are much preferred since then all you need to do is add some headers and you're golden. Working with perpendicular studs requires cutting a bunch of joists and re-creating the load structure to work around the new hole.

Alas, after clearing out the insulation and figuring out where everything was, I discovered that the only real place that the hatch could go is right above the ceiling fan. So that's a no-go.

Speaking of clearing out insulation -- every single time I do that, I vow that next time, I'm going to rent an insulation vacuum. But I never do. And so each time I find myself up there with a leaf vacuum and a snow shovel, both of which work a little, but neither works great. C'est la vie.

Back in the bathroom, I started by marking out the outside boundaries of the new support joists (doubled up) and then spent some time digging out the drywall nails from the studs that I was going to be removing. That was mildly tedious, but it paid great gains since that meant I could just cut the joists in two place and just lift it out, without messing with the drywall from above. I've done that before and it wasn't fun.



Since I was going with a 54" length hatch (for an attic ladder I ordered that will be arriving next week), I only had to cut away two of the joists. My main concern was actually the rats nest of electrical cables around that area. Spoiler alert - I was able to redirect all of them so it wasn't that big of a deal.



I had already punched some nails up through the ceiling to show the outer edges of the new studs, so I could mark off where to cut using my laser level. I used a combination of my sawzall and a hand-saw. A simple sentence, but doing those four cuts took quite some time what with all the up and down.



The existing joists are 2x6s but I want both something close to R-50 insulation and a platform around the hatch, so I decided to raise it all up a bit. As such, I used 2x10s for the new frame. The new structural elements are doubled up and so I'm pretty sure that having almost double the height of the joists and twice as many members is the best kind of overkill.



As a trivia note, that photo was taken a few minutes before I quite accidentally threw my hammer (the big 20oz framing hammer there) across the attic. It seems that my hands were so sweaty (not sure why I took off my gloves, also pictured there) that when I swung the hammer, it slipped right out and went flying. That was a sign I'd been up there too long.

Anyway, after the frame was done, I scored it with my utility knife from above and then went below to cut it out precisely.



Tadah! I have a piece of rigid foam polyiso on top of the hatch for now. It'll get much better sealed when the ladder arrived. Plus finished.

I did a test run of going up into the attic through the hatch:



It worked great! Better, in fact, than my seemingly great access that I have through the open ceiling of the theater space. I'm really glad I did that. It'll be even better with the attic ladder attached.

What Remains

What I didn't do that I wanted to do was to wire up some power directly into the theater space. I'm currently getting my power from a temporary outlet I put in the rafters (taps into the smoke detector circuit). That access will disappear fast as I put up the ceiling drywall. I also wanted to create that platform around the hatch and to also put a more permanent outlet and light in the attic for future use. All that will have to wait.

That's because next week is all about drywall! I'm taking the week off work so hopefully I'll make some real progress. Anybody that follows this build log knows just how slow I work, so nobody should be expecting miracles, but I'm hoping to at least get the two layers up, if not mudded.

For power, I'm planning on just snaking an extension cord in through the window from an outside outlet.

Next week should be exhausting but exciting!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6268.jpg
Views:	276
Size:	44.6 KB
ID:	228361   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6267.jpg
Views:	272
Size:	43.1 KB
ID:	228369   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6262.jpg
Views:	274
Size:	48.1 KB
ID:	228377   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6260.jpg
Views:	276
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	228385   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6257.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	36.1 KB
ID:	228393  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6254.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	52.5 KB
ID:	228401   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6251.jpg
Views:	278
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	228409   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6245.jpg
Views:	276
Size:	37.7 KB
ID:	228417  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #129 of 156 Old 08-25-2014, 10:55 AM
Jzc
Member
 
Jzc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valley of the Sun, Arizona.
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
granroth,

Dang man.. I know about working in the heat as I live up in Glendale and yea... the summers can be a killer, especially the last month or so.

Did you ever looked for your framing hammer? You didn't say that you went looking for it after throwing it.

Jzc
Jzc is offline  
post #130 of 156 Old 08-25-2014, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzc View Post
Did you ever looked for your framing hammer? You didn't say that you went looking for it after throwing it.
Heh, yeah... that's my favorite hammer, so I'm not about to lose it!

Saying it went flying might have been a little hyperbole -- it was more "two feet away into the insulation pile" than "across the attic."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #131 of 156 Old 09-02-2014, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Drywall Install - Start with the Ceiling - September 02, 2014

Great Expectations

I took the entire week off of work with the expectation that working on the drywall 8-10 hours a day would allow me to install both layers of drywall. Well... that was always a "fantasy goal", since I know myself well enough to know that I always get tripped up on various things along the way. Spoiler alert -- I didn't finish both layers, even including working Labor Day.

I'm going to split this up into several logical entries, since writing it all at once would take too long.

I will say that overall, doing drywall is somewhat tedious and often miserable work. If I wasn't saving a few thousand dollars, I would definitely have hired it out. But a those thousands can now be spent on other parts of the theater, that I don't want to scrimp on. "Present me" isn't happy about doing the drywall but "future me" definitely will be glad that "past me" did it.

Getting Started

I technically got started Sunday night, when my wife helped me load six of the 8' drywall sheets plus the two OSB panels into the theater space. I have a Stanley panel carry but it was mysteriously lost at this point in the week. So I just carted the sheets over on a hand truck and then my wife helped me carry them in through the open window. I'll be honest... our significant height and strength differences make carrying the sheets occasionally a bit harder than just me carrying them myself. And it is critically important that I can handle the sheets entirely on my own, since I spent the vast bulk of the week completely alone. This is the (mildly depleted) stack of drywall, covered by tarps:



I got that pile back in June and since we've gone through the bulk of Monsoon season, it's rained decently bit since then. Couple the occasional torrential rains with tarps that liked to flip up (hence the large number of blocks weighing it down now) and I was extremely worried that some or all of the sheets would be ruined. I couldn't see how at least some wouldn't be sodden. But no! They were all in great shape. That was a huge relief!

The best place to start is on the ceiling. Working alone essentially requires using a drywall hoist. Yes, there are DIY ways to get a sheet up there, but none are a fraction as convenient. I was originally planning on buying one, since I would end up needing one for too long to rent one, but then AVS member @KNKKNK stepped up and loaned me his! Sweet! As a bonus, I got to see his theater in progress... good thing I'm not the jealous type, or I would be very envious of his, compared to mine. Heh.



My first layer is all 4x8 sheets, since the original plan had the first layer be fully OSB. I changed my mind some weeks/months ago mostly due to how much more expensive the OSB route is over drywall. I have found myself wishing I had spent the money on the OSB, honestly. I don't like working with drywall at all and working with OSB is pretty straightforward, with the proper power tools (which I do have). Anyway, since my original plan called for a bunch of 4x8 OSB sheets, I didn't want to have to re-do it all when I switched to drywall and so I ordered 4x8 drywall as well.

Using the lift took a little practice, but once I got the hang of it, it proved to be very reliable and far FAR easier than any other method. It's a little fussy getting into the right position and likes tip to one side of the load isn't perfectly balanced. Plus, this particular lift is missing the handle on the wheel, so I have to turn it by spinning the wheel itself. I feel a bit like a sailor spinning a ship's wheel. Heh. Actually, the maneuvering part was arguably the hardest since my theater was still reasonably messy when I started. I cleaned it up quite a bit, but there are still a decent bit of items on the floor, even now. Anyway, I started with the front left corner:



And thirty minutes later, my first sheet was installed!



Yep, thirty minutes... and that was even after the sheet was on the lift and mostly hauled up. As I said, I don't work fast. I also didn't get very much faster as time went on. Adding on either custom holes or lengths (or Green Glue) and the time balloons to 45 min to an hour or more each.

I installed the sheet flush with the top plate and didn't leave a gap for caulk. I did so originally because I didn't feel like working out the gap when I was just getting used to installing the sheets. After the fact, I re-examined my zig-zag caulking plan and noticed that my first layer should be tight to the wall after all. So I was doing it right by accident. Cool.

Ramifications

Closing off the ceiling was going to have two immediate ramifications, that I could tell. The first was a predicted drop in the temperature in the theater space (more on that later). The second was me walling off my sole source of power in that space. That's because my power was coming from an outlet I temporarily installed on a rafter on the roof. It was close to the port (left) wall so I could only put up one row of drywall before it had to go. Here's my commemorative picture taken just before I couldn't see it anymore:



My replacement was to snake an extension cord from an outside outlet near our front door around the house and through an open window. I then hooked up a series of splitters to that to provide all of my power. At night, I just unplug my splitters and toss the extension cord out the window before shutting it.

You might think that keeping the window open would heat up the space quite a bit since the temps were maxing out at 106F - 108F degrees. Nope. The average temperature in the theater without a ceiling was around 113F - 118F degrees, so the open window with a fan actually cooled the place down quite a bit! The theater was always hotter than outside mostly because the attic was at 140F degrees and acted liked a huge broiler oven, baking down at me. My assumption was that putting up a ceiling would temper that heat somewhat. Drywall has a pretty minimal R-value of 0.6 or so, but it would definitely work as thermal mass and as a convection block.

And it worked! Putting up the first layer of drywall resulted in my average theater temp dropping a good 10 degrees, down to an average of 105F. Nice!

The heat prior to putting up the ceiling affected me in an unexpected way. I decided to just leave my (very very wet) work clothes on all day long... and discovered at the end of the day that I had a diaper rash!! Okay, there's probably a much better term for a rash that forms due to extended skin contact with liquid but I've only encountered it in the past in the context of diaper rash. Heh. I made sure to take off my work clothes and hang them out to dry during all breaks, thereafter.

First Setback

The first two sheets in the second row were slated to be OSB, which should give me some flexibility in placing my projector (not sure where, just yet). I started by installing a full sheet flush with the back wall:



Oops! I completely spaced on the fact that the joists are 24" O.C. as measured from the front of the theater, not the back. A full sheet of 8' results in the edge falling off a joist by about three inches.

Now, a smarter man than I would have immediately stopped and removed that piece (or not installed it in the first place). But I didn't. Instead, I decided to cut the next sheet so that it fell on a joist:



As a slight digression, this picture shows a reason why I prefer working with OSB over drywall. Both require setting up a straightedge, but the OSB case allows me to cut an extremely precise and square cut with my circular saw and drywall gives me a "rough" snap. Oh well.

I installed the second sheet and realized almost at once that I had a serious problem:



The overshoot of a few inches wasn't terminal, but overshooting by about 20 inches was far too much. As I said, I'm putting OSB right there to give me flexibility on the projector location... but there's a better than average chance that this particular area would end up being the sweet spot. Having a gap right there would compromise the entire reason for using OSB.

So I got out some 2x4s and made a brace and that did stabilize it. But that night, I couldn't stop thinking about it and I realized that I'm still early enough along in the project to not have to settle for workarounds like that.

The next morning, I removed my 2x4 braces; uninstalled the OSB sheets; swapped them around; and re-installed them. That took me most of the morning, but at least the end result was as solid as it should have been from the start.

The Rest

It was about this time that I did my first calculation on whether or not I'd be able to finish the drywall job in the week I had off. I calculated that since there were 10 total surfaces (4 walls + 1 ceiling x 2 layers), I'd need to do two surfaces per day. Considering it took me almost two days to do the first layer on the ceiling... well, yeah, there was no chance. My rough calculation was still very wrong, since doing the ceiling is nothing like any other task, but it at least gave me the basis to throw away my earlier notion of making the progress I had wanted.

I trucked through the rest of the ceiling sheets until I got to the final bit. It was a 16" x 6' section in the back starboard section. I didn't want to have to cut out a chunk from a full sheet, and so I used two scrap pieces:



I'd normally not be a fan of using such small pieces since it results in more joint lines, but since I was going to be covering it up with a second layer later, I didn't mind.

Roughly six hours into the second day, I had the first layer of ceiling entirely installed:



Closing Remarks

I used a screw pattern of a 1-5/8" coarse thread drywall screw every 12 inches. I'd seen a few people recommend every 9" but there doesn't seem to be any standard for that.

I also cleaned up the room quite a bit after this step, seeing how the mess interfered with getting around.
Jonny5nz likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #132 of 156 Old 09-03-2014, 06:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
JVoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
Great Expectations


I used a screw pattern of a 1-5/8" coarse thread drywall screw every 12 inches. I'd seen a few people recommend every 9" but there doesn't seem to be any standard for that.
I think the standard is 32 screws for a 4 x 8 sheet, if I remember correctly. Why didn't you insulate before you hung the drywall on the ceiling? Are you just gonna rent a machine and spray instead of rolling it?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JVoth is offline  
post #133 of 156 Old 09-03-2014, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Luis5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
Great Expectations

I took the entire week off of work with the expectation that working on the drywall 8-10 hours a day would allow me to install both layers of drywall. Well... that was always a "fantasy goal", since I know myself well enough to know that I always get tripped up on various things along the way. Spoiler alert -- I didn't finish both layers, even including working Labor Day.

I'm going to split this up into several logical entries, since writing it all at once would take too long.

I will say that overall, doing drywall is somewhat tedious and often miserable work. If I wasn't saving a few thousand dollars, I would definitely have hired it out. But a those thousands can now be spent on other parts of the theater, that I don't want to scrimp on. "Present me" isn't happy about doing the drywall but "future me" definitely will be glad that "past me" did it.

Getting Started

I technically got started Sunday night, when my wife helped me load six of the 8' drywall sheets plus the two OSB panels into the theater space. I have a Stanley panel carry but it was mysteriously lost at this point in the week. So I just carted the sheets over on a hand truck and then my wife helped me carry them in through the open window. I'll be honest... our significant height and strength differences make carrying the sheets occasionally a bit harder than just me carrying them myself. And it is critically important that I can handle the sheets entirely on my own, since I spent the vast bulk of the week completely alone. This is the (mildly depleted) stack of drywall, covered by tarps:



I got that pile back in June and since we've gone through the bulk of Monsoon season, it's rained decently bit since then. Couple the occasional torrential rains with tarps that liked to flip up (hence the large number of blocks weighing it down now) and I was extremely worried that some or all of the sheets would be ruined. I couldn't see how at least some wouldn't be sodden. But no! They were all in great shape. That was a huge relief!

The best place to start is on the ceiling. Working alone essentially requires using a drywall hoist. Yes, there are DIY ways to get a sheet up there, but none are a fraction as convenient. I was originally planning on buying one, since I would end up needing one for too long to rent one, but then AVS member @KNKKNK stepped up and loaned me his! Sweet! As a bonus, I got to see his theater in progress... good thing I'm not the jealous type, or I would be very envious of his, compared to mine. Heh.



My first layer is all 4x8 sheets, since the original plan had the first layer be fully OSB. I changed my mind some weeks/months ago mostly due to how much more expensive the OSB route is over drywall. I have found myself wishing I had spent the money on the OSB, honestly. I don't like working with drywall at all and working with OSB is pretty straightforward, with the proper power tools (which I do have). Anyway, since my original plan called for a bunch of 4x8 OSB sheets, I didn't want to have to re-do it all when I switched to drywall and so I ordered 4x8 drywall as well.

Using the lift took a little practice, but once I got the hang of it, it proved to be very reliable and far FAR easier than any other method. It's a little fussy getting into the right position and likes tip to one side of the load isn't perfectly balanced. Plus, this particular lift is missing the handle on the wheel, so I have to turn it by spinning the wheel itself. I feel a bit like a sailor spinning a ship's wheel. Heh. Actually, the maneuvering part was arguably the hardest since my theater was still reasonably messy when I started. I cleaned it up quite a bit, but there are still a decent bit of items on the floor, even now. Anyway, I started with the front left corner:



And thirty minutes later, my first sheet was installed!



Yep, thirty minutes... and that was even after the sheet was on the lift and mostly hauled up. As I said, I don't work fast. I also didn't get very much faster as time went on. Adding on either custom holes or lengths (or Green Glue) and the time balloons to 45 min to an hour or more each.

I installed the sheet flush with the top plate and didn't leave a gap for caulk. I did so originally because I didn't feel like working out the gap when I was just getting used to installing the sheets. After the fact, I re-examined my zig-zag caulking plan and noticed that my first layer should be tight to the wall after all. So I was doing it right by accident. Cool.

Ramifications

Closing off the ceiling was going to have two immediate ramifications, that I could tell. The first was a predicted drop in the temperature in the theater space (more on that later). The second was me walling off my sole source of power in that space. That's because my power was coming from an outlet I temporarily installed on a rafter on the roof. It was close to the port (left) wall so I could only put up one row of drywall before it had to go. Here's my commemorative picture taken just before I couldn't see it anymore:



My replacement was to snake an extension cord from an outside outlet near our front door around the house and through an open window. I then hooked up a series of splitters to that to provide all of my power. At night, I just unplug my splitters and toss the extension cord out the window before shutting it.

You might think that keeping the window open would heat up the space quite a bit since the temps were maxing out at 106F - 108F degrees. Nope. The average temperature in the theater without a ceiling was around 113F - 118F degrees, so the open window with a fan actually cooled the place down quite a bit! The theater was always hotter than outside mostly because the attic was at 140F degrees and acted liked a huge broiler oven, baking down at me. My assumption was that putting up a ceiling would temper that heat somewhat. Drywall has a pretty minimal R-value of 0.6 or so, but it would definitely work as thermal mass and as a convection block.

And it worked! Putting up the first layer of drywall resulted in my average theater temp dropping a good 10 degrees, down to an average of 105F. Nice!

The heat prior to putting up the ceiling affected me in an unexpected way. I decided to just leave my (very very wet) work clothes on all day long... and discovered at the end of the day that I had a diaper rash!! Okay, there's probably a much better term for a rash that forms due to extended skin contact with liquid but I've only encountered it in the past in the context of diaper rash. Heh. I made sure to take off my work clothes and hang them out to dry during all breaks, thereafter.

First Setback

The first two sheets in the second row were slated to be OSB, which should give me some flexibility in placing my projector (not sure where, just yet). I started by installing a full sheet flush with the back wall:



Oops! I completely spaced on the fact that the joists are 24" O.C. as measured from the front of the theater, not the back. A full sheet of 8' results in the edge falling off a joist by about three inches.

Now, a smarter man than I would have immediately stopped and removed that piece (or not installed it in the first place). But I didn't. Instead, I decided to cut the next sheet so that it fell on a joist:



As a slight digression, this picture shows a reason why I prefer working with OSB over drywall. Both require setting up a straightedge, but the OSB case allows me to cut an extremely precise and square cut with my circular saw and drywall gives me a "rough" snap. Oh well.

I installed the second sheet and realized almost at once that I had a serious problem:



The overshoot of a few inches wasn't terminal, but overshooting by about 20 inches was far too much. As I said, I'm putting OSB right there to give me flexibility on the projector location... but there's a better than average chance that this particular area would end up being the sweet spot. Having a gap right there would compromise the entire reason for using OSB.

So I got out some 2x4s and made a brace and that did stabilize it. But that night, I couldn't stop thinking about it and I realized that I'm still early enough along in the project to not have to settle for workarounds like that.

The next morning, I removed my 2x4 braces; uninstalled the OSB sheets; swapped them around; and re-installed them. That took me most of the morning, but at least the end result was as solid as it should have been from the start.

The Rest

It was about this time that I did my first calculation on whether or not I'd be able to finish the drywall job in the week I had off. I calculated that since there were 10 total surfaces (4 walls + 1 ceiling x 2 layers), I'd need to do two surfaces per day. Considering it took me almost two days to do the first layer on the ceiling... well, yeah, there was no chance. My rough calculation was still very wrong, since doing the ceiling is nothing like any other task, but it at least gave me the basis to throw away my earlier notion of making the progress I had wanted.

I trucked through the rest of the ceiling sheets until I got to the final bit. It was a 16" x 6' section in the back starboard section. I didn't want to have to cut out a chunk from a full sheet, and so I used two scrap pieces:



I'd normally not be a fan of using such small pieces since it results in more joint lines, but since I was going to be covering it up with a second layer later, I didn't mind.

Roughly six hours into the second day, I had the first layer of ceiling entirely installed:



Closing Remarks

I used a screw pattern of a 1-5/8" coarse thread drywall screw every 12 inches. I'd seen a few people recommend every 9" but there doesn't seem to be any standard for that.

I also cleaned up the room quite a bit after this step, seeing how the mess interfered with getting around.
Dang... Kurt! You've made some serious progress since we last spoke. Keep it up!

Panasonic TC-P65S2 HD Plasma, Oppo BDP-93, Paradigm Studio 100's v2 (mains), Paradigm Studio CC-570 v3 (center), Paradigm ADP-370 v3 (side surr.), (2 pairs) Paradigm Studio 20 v2 (side, back surr.), 2 SVS PB13-Ultras,1 Hsu Research VTF3-HO (nearfield), Marantz AV-7005 pre/pro | 2 Emotiva XPA-5's
Luis5150 is offline  
post #134 of 156 Old 09-03-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
I think the standard is 32 screws for a 4 x 8 sheet, if I remember correctly. Why didn't you insulate before you hung the drywall on the ceiling? Are you just gonna rent a machine and spray instead of rolling it?
Yeah, I saw the 32 screws figure thrown about as well. For a fun time, find a drywall contractor or home inspection website and ask the question about drywall screw spacing standards. Everybody is very convinced that they are right... but they all disagree with each other. Like I said, there doesn't appear to be any one standard.

I didn't insulate the ceiling because that's going to be primarily blown cellulose. That is, it'll be fiberglass batts on the edges where the inner and outer walls are (don't want the packed cellulose to bridge the gap) but the interior of the roof is going to be cellulose. I'll probably be dumping some along the perimeter in the not too distant future, but will likely keep the center free until I get my projector prep in place.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #135 of 156 Old 09-03-2014, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Drywall Install - Time for Walls - September 03, 2014

Skew

Now that the first layer of ceiling drywall was in, I started in on the walls. My eventual goal was to have a consistent reveal of 1/4" all around for a solid caulking foundation, but for this layer, I was going to have to be satisfied with 3/8" on the top and 1/2" on the bottom. That's because my walls were 8'-1 1/2" high. Subtract the 5/8" for the first layer ceiling drywall and I had to split 7/8" for the rest, with 8' sheets. Well, even that was a pipe dream.

It didn't take long for me to realize that all of my painstakingly detailed work I had done earlier in trying to make my walls as square and plumb as possible was all work utterly wasted. Somewhere along the way (maybe installing the door?), I completely skewed the room so that it slants fairly sharply port-side. This picture is a good example of it:



That's a perfectly plumb laser line on an essentially perfectly plumb drywall sheet (the darker laser on the bottom is mostly an artifact of the photo). Note how the stud has a good 3/4" reveal on the top but absolutely no reveal at all on the bottom. Yep, the room slants by roughly 3/4" over 8'. That's a 0.45 degree slant. That doesn't sound like a lot when you consider that that means my walls are at 89.6 degrees, which easily rounds up to 90 degrees... but you can see the results of that little bit. If I screwed in the panel plumb, then there wouldn't be an adequate screwing surface on the stud for the next sheet.

So I ended up aligning the sheets with the center line of the studs, rather than being arbitrarily plumb. That absolutely destroyed any hope I had of having a consistent reveal on either the top or bottom. Each sheet starts at about 1/4" to the ceiling and then tapers down to quite a bit more than that. As evidence:



This larger gap on the ends required me to raise the panels more than I'd prefer, too, otherwise it would be incredibly egregious. I used a 5/8" spacer, with some shims. This creates a gap on the floor of at least 5/8" and it goes up from there. I'll address what had to be done about that when I talk about caulking.

Here's another example of the varying gaps, plus one of my somewhat minor spur of the moment mistakes:



When I created my SketchUp plan, I didn't have any outlets in them, since I was only going to put outlets in the columns, stage, and riser. I really really wish I had stuck with that plan... but whatever, the main issue at this moment was that I hadn't planned out how I was going to handle the outlets. Most of the outlets just so happened to fall on the end of the sheet. That meant that there would be a gap of roughly 3/4" on the stud size, since I wasn't about to bother leaving such a small sliver of drywall on the side (almost guaranteed to break). That seemed egregiously big, so I decided on the fly to make sure that all of the outlets fell in the middle of the sheet.

The practical effect of this is shown on this wall, though. There ends up being three sections of 2' wide sheets, which means quite a bit more joints. It would get a lot worse on some of the other walls, too. In general, I wasn't too uptight with the layout of the first layer since the second horizontal layer will be covering up quite a bit... but in this case, it did mean that I was going to have to have two layers of 2' wide sections stacked on top of each other. That's because I have 12' wide second layer sheets but a (roughly) 14' wide room. And since I had a 2' wide sections on both sides of the wall for the first layer, that meant that I'd also have to have another 2' wide section on top of it for the second layer. Not a fan of that. Wish I had left a full sheet on at least one corner.

Putty Time

I had previously detailed in the Soundproofing Master Thread how I applied the putty pad to my outlets and was convinced that putting the pad flush with the front of the box was the wrong way to go. It makes more sense to use the putty as a backstop, of sorts. So what I did was score the putty down to just shy of the stud line and peel it up to form a flared surround. The picture hopefully will show what I mean:



I left the putty a very tiny bit proud of the stud so that the drywall would press against it and any opening around the drywall would be essentially sealed by it.

To cut out the outlet holes, I just measured offsets with a tape measure.



I thoroughly dislike doing it like that since it's too easy to inject a mistake. I'd much prefer to mark things in place, to guarantee the right placement. In this case, though, since the outlet boxes were protruding a good 1-1/4", I couldn't think of an easy way to do that. So measuring it was. The end result?



Yeah, I'm really glad I had the putty pad backing it up. There is just some inconsistent thing I'm doing when measuring that practically guarantees that it'll be slightly too close; too far; too high; or too low. No idea why, since it's also not the same each time.

In most cases, I used the left-over putty pad to stuff any gaps, like so:



No matter what, each outlet is thoroughly caulked (detailed later).

Short

My original SketchUp plan had the areas above and around the door and windows mostly made up of leftover pieces. As I was calculating what leftover pieces I had, though, I kept coming up short. I had, unfortunately, not actually detailed what leftover pieces would go where. So I decided to just do them properly and cut out the outlines of the holes in full sheets:



At the end of one day, I stood back and did an inventory of what sheets I had left and what remained to be done... and the math didn't work. Maybe I was counting on using more full sheets since partials would take their place in some places? Maybe I was expecting to use partials from the second layer 12' sheets? No idea. What I do know is that no matter what kind of shifting around of pieces, I couldn't make it all fit.

I double checked my order and sure enough, I had ordered and received 21 pieces of drywall and 2 pieces of OSB. I actually needed 24 pieces of 8' drywall!! This was even pretty obvious when I counted in SketchUp with my revised plan. Very very weird that I would have had that mental disconnect.

So a morning was wasted going to U-Haul to rent a trailer and then heading to Lowes to pick up a few sheets (plus some insulation for a later phase).

I carefully scrutinized my 12' sheet order and it looks like I may have ordered one more than I needed. That implies that I did have some plan for partials with that. I wonder what.

Anyway, I still am going to end up using some 2' x 4' partials in a few corners, since I want to minimize waste as much as possible. This is a good example:



It's still waiting for the bottom piece which was scheduled to arrive courtesy of one of the 12' second layer ceiling sheets.

By end of day Thursday, I had the first layer of drywall on the walls all around (minus the one missing partial piece).



It's really starting to feel like a real room.



Closing Thoughts

I'll say it again -- installing those outlets was a big mistake. They'll serve almost no purpose and make every single thing later harder. Dealing with them drastically slows down installing drywall, for instance. It'll really kick in when doing the horizontal 12' sheets, I think.

The acoustics of the room dramatically changed when I put the drywall on. I was mostly expecting that. See, before the drywall, I essentially had full absorption on all four walls (insulation) and then a 20' vaulted ceiling that was almost to the outside. As such, there were simply no notable echo at all. The first thing I noticed after the drywall was installed was how much louder everything was inside of the room. The same audio source that was 82dB before the drywall was now 94dB. Subjectively, I even initially thought that it made the soundproofing worse! That's because I did a new ad-hoc test, similar to the one I did before and could much more clearly hear the sounds outside of the room.

Well... that was mostly because I was using a sound source that was double the loudness (94dB vs 82dB). When I looked at the actual numbers, it appears that I sustained roughly a 10dB drop compared to before the first layer of drywall. That is, a 30dB drop just outside the theater door and a full 50dB drop by the time you get into the living room (compared to 20dB and 40dB from before the drywall.

Oh, and I burned myself just touching a drywall screw after screwing it in:



Funny. It was more swollen than it looks from that angle. It also almost looks like a Torx head, but no, it's just a Phillips head.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6317.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	22.2 KB
ID:	245065   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6315.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	52.1 KB
ID:	245073   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6356.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	36.0 KB
ID:	245081   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6354.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	245089   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6350.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	27.9 KB
ID:	245097  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6349.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	24.8 KB
ID:	245105   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6348.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	36.3 KB
ID:	245113   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6344.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	245121   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6327.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	32.8 KB
ID:	245129   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6326.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	245137  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6323.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	35.6 KB
ID:	245145   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6319.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	41.4 KB
ID:	245153  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #136 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 03:37 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Another triumph of determination over adversity. Looks like you had quite the struggle. Just curious - why not use the 54" width drywall boards and put the first layer sideways to eliminate most of the installation issues? I think you could have kept the midline seam perfectly level and account for any disparity along the ceiling or floor by one simple, long rip cut (score & snap), keeping the edge true. The seams of a second horizontal layer with Green Glue could be offset several inches by alternating the brick pattern on the horizontal plane and alternating the height of the horizontal seam by using the extra 11" you have to play with between two 54" width boards set on their side.

Sorry to see that burn...I've done that more than a few times, that's for sure!!
TMcG is online now  
post #137 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
Great Expectations
The heat prior to putting up the ceiling affected me in an unexpected way. I decided to just leave my (very very wet) work clothes on all day long... and discovered at the end of the day that I had a diaper rash!! Okay, there's probably a much better term for a rash that forms due to extended skin contact with liquid but I've only encountered it in the past in the context of diaper rash. Heh. I made sure to take off my work clothes and hang them out to dry during all breaks, thereafter.
Good update sorry about the rash. It is a type of yeast infection. I acquired it my first mission to Honduras while assigned to the 7th Special Forces Group. it is a bugger to get rid of and never actually does. If I do like you did then bam next day here is my little friend. Keep it clean and powder is your friend. Hope you caught it before it decides it likes it there and moves on in to stay. LOL

Not to side seat but there was no way to get the studs back to plum? I guess I was thinking same as Tim you could of went horizontal on the first layer. But oh well. Just whatever you do lay second layer down then mark and snap a line at the center of every stud top and bottom of sheet so you hit them dead on take your time and do it once. You do not need a bunch of screws going through 2 layers of Drywall and not hitting the stud. Yea the mud will cover but best to do it right first time. Snap those lines my friend!!!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #138 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Another triumph of determination over adversity. Looks like you had quite the struggle. Just curious - why not use the 54" width drywall boards and put the first layer sideways to eliminate most of the installation issues? I think you could have kept the midline seam perfectly level and account for any disparity along the ceiling or floor by one simple, long rip cut (score & snap), keeping the edge true. The seams of a second horizontal layer with Green Glue could be offset several inches by alternating the brick pattern on the horizontal plane and alternating the height of the horizontal seam by using the extra 11" you have to play with between two 54" width boards set on their side.
I can predict the next logical question! My room is roughly 14' wide, and so it makes the most sense by far to get 14' or 16' sheets and hang them horizontally so that there are no butt joints at all. What you'll see, though, is that I am going to use 12' sheets and have a 2' filler on the side. Why?

The answer to your current question and your future question is the same -- my supplier only had sheets in 4x8 and 4x12 variants. No 54" width and nothing longer than 12'.

So why not find a different supplier? Lots of little reasons, but the main one is that I tend to be a steady repeat customer to businesses that treated me right in the past. As such, I was already ordering other stuff from my supplier and figured that I'd save some time (finding another supplier) and money (paying for several delivery charges) by just consolidating all of my orders in one, at once.

Then, I was never planning on having two layers of horizontal drywall. I was following BasementBob's advice on layering discussed here: Soundproofing Master Thread - Post 151. He very directly recommends laying the first layer down vertically and then the second layer horizontally.

I think I was two sheets in to the walls before I started thinking that I should have insisted on 54" wide and should have done it horizontally with long pieces for both layers. Ah well... lesson learned if I ever make another.

While I'm on the topic, here's another related thought:

Kicking Myself

The thought occurred to me not too long ago that I missed a golden opportunity when I was building up my walls. See, I built the walls in units on the floor and then lifted them into place as-is. Why didn't I insert the insulation while it was still on the floor and (even moreso), why not install the first layer of drywall?! If I had done all that in real-time, then I could have guaranteed that everything would have been square and plumb.

Now... since my floor was now flat, that would have required first leveling out the floor using that concrete leveling compound. Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not doing that, too.

So another lesson learned if I build another theater:

1. Ensure that my floor is dead-flat before I start on anything
2. Build the wall on the floor, making sure that all studs are reasonably straight and untwisted
3. Immediately insert the insulation
4. Immediately install the first layer of drywall on the newly raised wall, to ensure that it stays straight and plumb


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #139 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 04:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Snap those lines


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #140 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
Good update sorry about the rash. It is a type of yeast infection. I acquired it my first mission to Honduras while assigned to the 7th Special Forces Group. it is a bugger to get rid of and never actually does. If I do like you did then bam next day here is my little friend. Keep it clean and powder is your friend. Hope you caught it before it decides it likes it there and moves on in to stay. LOL
The rash itched and burned like crazy, but a little hydrocortizone solved that. And it was gone the next day, after maybe 12 hours of airing! So either it wasn't an infection like that or I nipped it in the bud.

As far as infections go, I did get four spots of ringworm after the second day. That fungus likes wet areas as well and it's only now that those spots are receding. Fun fun fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
Not to side seat but there was no way to get the studs back to plum? I guess I was thinking same as Tim you could of went horizontal on the first layer. But oh well. Just whatever you do lay second layer down then mark and snap a line at the center of every stud top and bottom of sheet so you hit them dead on take your time and do it once. You do not need a bunch of screws going through 2 layers of Drywall and not hitting the stud. Yea the mud will cover but best to do it right first time. Snap those lines my friend!!!
I did debate taking my sawzall to the bottom of each of the studs, re-plumbing them, and toe-nailing them back in place. I may yet regret not doing that, but at the time I thought I'd be easier to just install the drywall slightly crooked.

I will definitely snap a line at least on the front and back walls... and maybe it would be faster on the side walls, too. I have been using my laser level to determine where to drive the screws, since my joists and side wall studs match up perfectly. The front and back walls aren't quite as plumb, though, so snapping a line would be far more accurate. And yeah, that might be faster in the long run on the side walls than setting up the laser level each time.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #141 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 05:15 PM
Member
 
Cksqurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Snapping lines will definitely help. I did that on all the surfaces and it helps with lining up or measuring! Just my two cents.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cksqurd is offline  
post #142 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 06:28 PM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
So another lesson learned if I build another theater:

1. Ensure that my floor is dead-flat before I start on anything
2. Build the wall on the floor, making sure that all studs are reasonably straight and untwisted
3. Immediately insert the insulation
4. Immediately install the first layer of drywall on the newly raised wall, to ensure that it stays straight and plumb
5. Start theater construction in late fall / early winter to avoid achieving Level V swamp a$$ by 7AM!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post
I will definitely snap a line at least on the front and back walls... and maybe it would be faster on the side walls, too. I have been using my laser level to determine where to drive the screws, since my joists and side wall studs match up perfectly. The front and back walls aren't quite as plumb, though, so snapping a line would be far more accurate. And yeah, that might be faster in the long run on the side walls than setting up the laser level each time.
A quick trick is to use a Sharpie to mark the bottom of the studs on the subfloor and the top of the studs on the ceiling. You'll have to recreate the ceiling marks after the second layer by translating the marks to the upper wall and then back to the ceiling, but this gives you permanent visibility of stud locations when you need to find structure for finish work - columns, wainscot, screen wall, whatever....
TMcG is online now  
post #143 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
JVoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 37
TMcG, Level V swamp ass had me laughing pretty good.
I don't know how these guys work in that dessert heat. It's great at night but I just couldn't deal with 110 or 115 degree temperatures everyday.
JVoth is offline  
post #144 of 156 Old 09-04-2014, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Drywall Install - Window Jambs - September 04, 2014

Cascading Effects

The primary reason I was so stressed about making the walls ultra-precise early on was because I knew that any mistake up front will have cascading effects later on. As we saw, I did screw up the wall framing and so... here's an example of a cascading effect. To wit, my window extension jambs.

My plan was to create a simple box extension jamb that is attached to the studs. It would be flush with the surface of the first layer of drywall so that the second layer of drywall could overlap the ends. Adding a drywall corner should make for a seamless and tight transition. I was also planning on leaving a gap of 1/8" to 1/4" between the extension jamb and the window, so I could fill it with caulk, creating a tight seal at that end.

To maximize mass, I skipped the normal step of making the rough opening in the stud wall a couple inches wider and taller so I could fit the jamb later and just shim it in place. Instead, I created the rough opening pretty close to the exact size of the window (35" x 5'-11"). The built-in window jamb is about 1" wide, so putting a 3/4" extension jamb in would still leave a 1/4" reveal.

That was the plan.

Well... no. The first issue was that in addition to the wall being skewed in the port-direction, it was also shifted to the back by some amount. As a result:



Yeah, that's a good 1/2" to 3/4" gap between the outer edge of the window jamb and the stud. And since the rough opening is very close to the size of the window, that meant that the other side was also over.

Twisted

And the other side was, indeed, shifted over... but it's worse than that:



The king stud itself is somehow twisted. I'm not sure how that happened. Maybe it was twisted when I installed it and I assumed that nailing it into the header studs would straighten it out? Did it twist itself out after the fact?

In any event, that twist is only on the top foot or two of the stud and it was a serious problem since it would push any reasonable sized extension jamb well past the window jamb. For reference, that square is roughly an inch wide and you can see the half-way groove go just past the jamb. So even a 1/2" jamb wouldn't fit.

Out comes the tools!



I first went at it with my bench plane. That worked great at planing down a decent bit of the stud quickly, but since the blade is almost 3" down, I couldn't get very close to the upper header, where the twist was the worst.

So my next step was to go at it with my belt sander with a 36 grit belt. That also did an okay job, but it too had limitations on how close it could get to the header.

I then chucked a rough cutting blade into my sawzall and essentially "shaved" the stud with that. It was horribly inelegant, but it did the job:



The stud looked quite a bit more chewed up than that picture in the end, but that gives a rough idea of where it was going.

Scribed

I went back and forth on what material to make the extension jamb out of. One possibility was the drywall, since most extension jambs in homes around here are made of drywall anyway (very few instances of sills or any reasonable window casing). I did want a factory edge on the window jamb side, though, and I didn't have enough drywall to pull that off. Specifically, since I needed an almost 6' length, I would need to cut it out of several full sheets, essentially wasting them. Nope.

I was then going to use plywood but my plywood was buried behind my 3/4" MDF and I didn't want to move that. 1/2" MDF was my next choice... it was also behind the 3/4" MDF.

So yeah, I just used the 3/4" MDF.

When I get into my soffit building stage, I'll be fully setup to repeatedly cut MDF, but that's not now. I ended up having to haul a sheet of MDF around to several places to gradually cut it down into the pieces I need. That is, I first gathered up my circular saw and Rip-it Jig and sacrificial foam board so I could rough cut the MDF into smaller pieces on the floor of my garage (the only place other than the theater with a big enough floor space). The rough cut pieces were then hauled to my workshop, where I cut out the precise widths on my table saw. Those pieces were brought into the theater where they were cut to precise lengths using my miter saw.

I cut the widths all slightly oversized, since I wanted to scribe it flush with the wall. This was important because as I've said a few times, the walls are skewed and so the extension jamb is wider at the top than at the bottom. I initially did the whole offset deal with the compass and followed my line with a jigsaw... but then noticed that the line was essentially straight anyway, and so I just marked the top and bottom for the rest and connected the dots with a straightedge. The straightedge also made a handy fence for my jigsaw:



Each piece is individually nailed into the studs. As you can see, I did need to shim out the extension jamb quite a bit in a few places:



I stuffed the gaps with backer rod and caulked the heck out of it:



The ends will be covered by the second layer of drywall and then sealed and mudded with a drywall corner bead, so the caulking may not be technically necessary, but it's good redundancy and mass, in any event.

Closing Thoughts

I somehow spaced out on how long it would take to make the extension jambs and so it wasn't in my schedule at all. It ended up taking up a good six or seven hours, though, so that was a significant part of a whole day.

I do wish I had gave myself more room for shimming. The extension jamb fits, but just barely. The window almost doesn't swing open. Almost. We'll see what happens when the drywall corner bead is in place. I may need to shave something down.

I still haven't caulked the space between the extension jamb and the window. That'll require some careful taping on the existing jamb for ease of cleanup and I tend to put off tedious tasks like that.

Next Up: My first encounter with 12' lengths of drywall
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6393.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	247050   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6389.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	21.9 KB
ID:	247058   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6388.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	51.0 KB
ID:	247066   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6387.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	40.5 KB
ID:	247074   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6386.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	33.3 KB
ID:	247082  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6385.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	51.3 KB
ID:	247090   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6384.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	42.6 KB
ID:	247098  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #145 of 156 Old 09-05-2014, 05:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
now go change your wet shorts


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by cw5billwade; 09-05-2014 at 05:16 AM.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #146 of 156 Old 09-05-2014, 05:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
TMcG, Level V swamp ass had me laughing pretty good.
I don't know how these guys work in that dessert heat. It's great at night but I just couldn't deal with 110 or 115 degree temperatures everyday.
Me to I was ROFLMAO then I look at Tims Avatar laughing back at me and I was thinking I bet that is one of thoese red A$$ apes and got me going agian.

Dessert heat is no joke it is not even great at night Down Range where day time is 135 and 110 at night. Worst part of being over there not counting folks trying to kill you. And we gave it all back to them. pisses me off
Cksqurd likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
post #147 of 156 Old 09-05-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
TMcG, Level V swamp ass had me laughing pretty good.
I don't know how these guys work in that dessert heat. It's great at night but I just couldn't deal with 110 or 115 degree temperatures everyday.
Well, it's not 110 or 115 degrees every day. It was that in my theater, but that was before my ceiling was in place and I had my broiler/attic above me. It's usually under 110 most days in the summer. And you do get used to it, relatively speaking.

Alas, night isn't much of a respite. It gets down to the mid 80s, but only at 3am.

Not this weekend and next week, though! Highs in the low-90s! Really looking forward to that. It does mean that it'll rain, which means I need to spend this afternoon getting the rest of my drywall inside. I've kept them dry so far, but only by luck, really. The tarps covering the pile are shredding to pieces and it would figure that I'd make it this far only to have the final few sheets ruined.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #148 of 156 Old 09-05-2014, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Drywall Install - Second Layer Ceiling - September 05, 2014

The Right Tools

I'm not a particularly strong guy. Yeah, I'm 6' tall, but my career is as a software engineer, so I spend the vast majority of my days sitting down. Ergo, most of the weight I have is decidedly not from muscle!

I say all that because I've always hated transporting panels. It's usually 3/4" MDF or Plywood weighing somewhere around 75lbs and it doesn't take too many of those to wipe me out. My second layer of drywall is all 4x12 sheets, which weigh in the neighborhood of 105-110lbs. Oof.

So I have some tools and methods to deal with that, starting with these:



I'm going to do a quick tool review of these three panel movers, starting from the cheapest up to the most expensive. Each has a strong reason to use it and an equally strong reason not to.

First up is my neon green Stanley Panel Carrier at $7. This uses very similar muscles to just carrying the panel "normally", but allows you to keep your carrying hand and wrist straight and not twisted. That alone makes it much easier to carry a panel than without it. Plus, since it distributes the load over multiple muscles, it's easier than most to life the panel a little bit higher. On the flip side, though, quite a bit of the weight is centered on your hand. You'd think I'd have strong hands from typing all day long but no, that's aerobic exercise not strength training. I used this to lift the sheets through my window, since I had to lift it roughly 12" to 18" above the ground. I couldn't do more than maybe six at one time, though, before my hand gave out. Also, it has the identical problem of using nothing in that you have to lift up the panel to even start using it. There's a bit of a chicken and the egg going on here, since I want something to lift the panel in the first place!

So enter the Gorilla Gripper ($55). This is very solidly built and feels like it's last forever. It attaches to the top of the panel and the weight of the panel creates a lever action that keeps the Gripper clamped shut. This is great for just picking up a panel and going with no muss and no fuss. For the most part, this is what I use to transport the sheets inside of the theater. But... this doesn't transfer the weight as well as the Stanley carrier and so it feels like you are doing bicep curls with a 110lb weight. I can still use this longer than the Stanley since my arms are stronger than my hands, but the panel does "feel" heavier with this. Also, using it absolutely requires you to be pretty tall, since the top of the sheet will be shoulder height. At my 6' frame, I was unable to lift the drywall over my window sill, since it hung too low and unlike the Stanley, I couldn't raise it higher.

And finally we get the Panel Pal ($70). This is a cheaper version of the panel carriers you find online for $250-$300. It feels pretty rugged, but it's all plastic. This is fantastic for carrying the panels long distances outside. I used it to carry the 12' panels up and down hills and across loose gravel. It's so much easier to haul panels with it than either of the other two that it's not even funny. But... unlike the more expensive variants, this one doesn't clamp shut on the panel and so it has a tendency to want to shift while moving. The sheet also wobbles around a bit, so having a helper steady it definitely helps (not an issue with MDF or plywood, since those are far more rigid). It also has the same chicken-and-egg problem of the Stanley in that you need to be able to lift the sheet in the first place to get it on the Panel Pal. I used the Gorilla Gripper for that. And finally, it can't get over an obstacle like the window sill, so I couldn't find any real use for it inside. It's a long distance carrier.

Each, then, has a situation where they shine and a situation where they don't. I don't know of any magic bullet that will take care of all cases and until then, the three of them as a team handle all my needs.

To the Ceiling

The hardest part of installing the 12' sheets on the ceiling is actually getting the sheet onto the lift in the first place! Yeah, it would be infinitely harder without a lift so that's not a complaint... but it is an issue. My Achilles heel with these sheets is picking them up in the first place, so this is my procedure:



I position the lift pretty close to where I'm going to hoist up that sheet. I then use the Gorilla Gripper to haul the sheet over to the lift, making sure that the finished side is facing the lift (and the tapered edges where they are supposed to be). I put two 2x4 scraps down on each side of the lift and place the sheet on it. This gives me the room to insert my hand so I can lift using my legs. I then sort of angle it up, with one end going up faster than the other. For the first one, I did try to lift it straight up but somehow the angles were wrong and I felt more strain on my back than I'm comfortable with. So I lift one end up; straighten up; and then lift up the other end. I then rest the bottom of the sheet on my hip and use that to move the sheet around enough to spot the lift hooks. Getting them on the hooks is mildly tricky since more than once I ended up pushing the hooks back out of the way and I had to start over from step one. Once the sheet is on the hook, though, it's pretty darn solid and the weight and length no longer matter much.

I started on the starboard side of the room so that I didn't have any overlapped seams:



I then marked off the sheet in three 4' increments and used a full tube of Green Glue in each segment. I figured that if two tubes are recommended for 8', then three tubes will give me the same results in 12'.



Once up, I exploited the fact that the joists are aligned with my side wall studs and so I just lined up my laser level with the screws on each wall and the existing screws in the first layer of drywall on the ceiling. I used the same screw pattern as the 8' ones (five screws per joist over the 4') only with one more joist.



Here's a shot showing my overlapping joints. It's not visible (since I'm overlapping it), but there is a butt joint just under the new sheet but almost an inch back. I was a little fearful that those joints would line up, since the first layer coupled a 4' section with an 8' section, placing it on the 12' out joist, which is also where my new full sheet was landing. Well, I didn't take into account the 5/8" offset from the first layer on the wall nor the 1/4" gap from that wall, which pushed my 12' sheet out by almost an inch. Hence, no joints lined up.

Covered

I averaged 40 minutes per sheet with this layer, but it still took me two days since one of those days landed on Labor Day and I didn't devote every second of that day to the theater. I kept pretty decent gaps for this layer, with one exception:



I completely mis-read or mis-remembered some dimension and I cut the first thin sheet a good 1/2" too much. That left me with a nearly 3/4" gap over 12'. The far strip was measured correctly, and so it has a notably smaller gap (albeit maybe a little too small in one part). Filling in the 3/4" gap proved to be tricky (more on that later).

By the end of Labor Day, though, I had the final layer on the ceiling completely installed. It looked a lot cleaner than the first layer, what with much fewer joints and no mis-matched components (all drywall instead of drywall plus OSB):



Concluding Thoughts

I was actually getting into the swing of things with this layer. I don't know that I would have done anything seriously differently, save measuring that one strip correctly. Otherwise, the sheets went up slowly, but surely, and with reasonable caulk gaps.

Next Up: Caulking!

Then: Second layer walls.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6444.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	52.9 KB
ID:	248330   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6441.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	33.9 KB
ID:	248338   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6437.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	33.0 KB
ID:	248346   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6426.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	21.7 KB
ID:	248354   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6412.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	41.3 KB
ID:	248362  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6411.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	24.9 KB
ID:	248370   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6408.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	19.9 KB
ID:	248378   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6406.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	41.0 KB
ID:	248386   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6405.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	35.1 KB
ID:	248394  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #149 of 156 Old 09-06-2014, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
granroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Drywall Install - Caulking - September 06, 2014

Zig-Zag

My goal for drywall and caulking is to follow a variant of this pattern:



That's from @BasementBob and was vetted by Rod Gervais. I say I'm going a "variant" of it, because I'm only having two layers and I'm not sure that I'm going to do the mudded corner strips (need to find out about that).

But the goal is, indeed, to stagger the pieces in a zig-zag fashion, leaving a 1/4" gap, and filling them in with 3/8" backer rod and a 1/4" bead of 50-year caulk.

FWIW, my drywall layout is also heavily inspired by a @BasementBob design:



Anyway, as we saw earlier and shall see even more today, getting a consistent 1/4" gap was far too much to ask.

Supplies

I ordered the caulk well in advance since it's not stocked locally and I wanted to get the best possible price. I ordered OSI SC-175 instead of the typical Silenseal or similar. Why? Well, long discussions on the Soundproofing Master Thread as well as discussions elsewhere on AVS and GearSz all pointed to the fact that the only thing that makes "acoustic caulk" special is the 50-year guarantee. Therefore, if you can find caulk with a reliable 50-year guarantee, then buy the cheapest variant you can find and it'll work just as well as the far more expensive stuff. I ordered mine from Home Depot at $78 for a 12 pack of 28oz tubes. That comes to 23 cents an ounce, which is even price competitive with typical "all purpose caulk", much less any other acoustic caulk.

The 3/8" backer rod was a sleeping problem, that snuck up on me. I honestly hadn't thought too much about it, compared to the caulk. As it got closer to when I needed to use it, though, I finally calculated how much I'd need... and it's somewhere around 300 linear feet. Hrm. Well, I'll pop in to my local Home Depot and pick up some 100 ft rolls. Or apparently not. Several local big box stores didn't carry 3/8" backer rod at all, much less in the quantities I needed. I started panicking right about then. Yes, I could find resources online where I could buy 3/8" backer rod in bulk, but they all had a week or more shipping time associated with them. I absolutely needed to buy them locally. So I spent some time digging into the Home Depot inventory feature of their website and finally came across a store roughly 10 miles from my house that did have enough.

The next morning, I popped in and grabbed an entire box of packages that each contained 20'. I got lots of curious looks and more than a few questions carrying the entire stuffed box. It definitely cost quite a bit more than the bulk online rod, though, so I was being penalized for not planning this out in advance. Ah well.

Normal Gap

I'm not going to have any consistent 1/4" gaps anywhere, since my walls are not truly plumb and the ceiling isn't perfectly flat (since the floor was not). So I split the gaps into two main groups: those between 0"-3/8" and those greater than 3/8". Here's roughly how I do the former.

I first take my 3/8" backer rod and stuff it tightly into the gap:



This compresses quite a bit, so it effectively takes up between 3/8" and 1/2" of the 5/8" drywall thickness. I'm going to measure that next time to see exactly how much. I only use the backer rod if the gap is close to 1/4" or slightly more. If it's 1/8" or less, then I just leave it be and fill it entirely with caulk.

The next step, regardless is filling it with caulk:



I use my finger to smooth it out, and ensure that it completely covers the gap from side to side. It sometimes takes two coats, since I push in caulk as deep as I can and sometimes it doesn't quite fill it.

The end result:



I'd be pretty happy if that was my results all of the time.

Larger Gaps

But as I've mentioned, since I have uneven floors and non-plumb walls, I occasionally (far too often with the first layer) have gaps that are 1/2" to 3/4". Those are simply too big to easily fill with caulk. I debated getting bigger backer rod, but since it's round, it would just end up filling the depth in addition to the width. I did double up on the 3/8" in a couple of places where it seemed appropriate. But for the most part, if the gap was too big on the first layer, then I just used Great Stuff foam.

Oof.. yeah, that's not generally that recommended in acoustic or theater circles. It's not as dense as acoustic caulk; doesn't have the same lifetime guarantee; is extremely sticky; costs more; and doesn't always cover as completely. But it does do a decent job of air sealing and it expands to fill its own space, for the most part.

So I decided to essentially treat it as either backer rod or as a first layer air sealant. That is, if it didn't completely cover the gap, then it became my backer rod. If it did, then I just touched it up to complete the air sealant capability.

Here's a good example of a filled in gap on the floor. In this case, I switched between "normal" Great Stuff and the "Door and Window" variant in between:



That's what I'm talking about with inconsistent coverage, too. It clearly is filling the gap totally in some cases, but is woefully short in others. It's very very difficult to tell while you're doing it, since so much of foam's coverage is done as it expands, after it's applied. The amount it can expand can be pretty comical, too. Here's on the outside of my theater door. I swear it seemed like a reasonable amount when I applied it:



Anyway, back to the filled in floor gap. I then cut the foam flush using a flush cutting blade on my Multi-Max:



It leaves a pretty flush cut, but you can see how there are still some air holes. Those are likely just a little bit deep, but I do want them covered:



So what I do is go over the foam, no matter what, with caulk. This fills in any inconsistent coverage and also fills in those air holes:



On the Ceiling

I was lucky that most of the gaps on the ceiling were reasonable, but as I described in my previous update, a mis-measurement on one of the ceiling strips left a pretty sizeable gap (3/4"). I figured that since foam is incredibly sticky, that I could just spray it up there like the other gaps and have the same result. Er... nope:



It started sagging immediately and even dropped down to the floor in places. Basically, the weight of the foam counteracted the stickiness and so it simply wouldn't stay up there. I let it dry and then went at it with my flush cutting blade. It did a variable job, ranging from barely okay to really terrible. Here's a section where some chunks of it simply dropped away before they could dry:



Notice how many gaps there are, regardless of the dropped sections. Those are from where the foam sagged. Still, that did act like a relatively decent backer rod and so the amount of caulk that I had to apply was somewhat reasonable (I have low expectations of sagging):



Outlet Boxes

For the first layer of drywall over the outlet boxes, I stuffed the gaps as much as I could with left-over putty; put backer rod where it would fit; and then caulked all around:



Some required more caulk than others, but I didn't mind since it was just the first layer. I'll skip ahead to today, though, and show a photo of the first outlet box cutout I did with my second layer of drywall:



Oof. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong with my measurements on the outlet boxes. I clearly got the sides and bottom spot-on, so why is the top so incredibly off?

More importantly, I'm not sure how to handle that case. What should I use to fill that rather large gap?

Closing Thoughts

For the most part, the caulking is as expected considering my not-as-perfect-as-I'd-prefer base. As of know, I have the ceilings, floors, side corners, and door all caulked for the first layer. The gap on the second layer on the ceiling is also caulked. And finally, as I've been putting up the second layer of the walls, I've been (mostly) caulking that as well.

This mostly brings me up to date. I've been posting a daily update to reflect work that I largely did the week before Labor Day, since I had it off. Some of this was done in the past week, but I don't get a lot of time to work on the theater on week days when I don't take them off.

As such, I'm going to posting one more daily update tomorrow, but it'll be a in-progress update. After that, I'll be back to weekly updates at best.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6492.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	26.7 KB
ID:	250522   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6490.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	42.3 KB
ID:	250530   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6488.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	27.7 KB
ID:	250538   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6484.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	27.1 KB
ID:	250546   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6463.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	27.3 KB
ID:	250554  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6483.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	31.2 KB
ID:	250562   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6479.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	27.7 KB
ID:	250570   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6473.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	29.5 KB
ID:	250578   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6471.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	33.6 KB
ID:	250586   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6465.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	250594  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6464.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	250602   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6453.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	34.8 KB
ID:	250610   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6449.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	23.6 KB
ID:	250618   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6376.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	250674   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6362.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	31.0 KB
ID:	250682  



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
granroth is offline  
post #150 of 156 Old 09-07-2014, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Use the piece of drywall square you cut out for the outlet trim to fit and glue it in place. Careful with the caulk on top layer of DW as the mud guys did not like that on my build
granroth likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cw5billwade is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off