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Old 01-27-2016, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
So, is there already a 1" air gap between your studs and the concrete wall?



It depends. If you'd like sound from your HT room to travel through the wall to whatever its connected to, then no. If you don't want that to happen, then yes it's important that it be decoupled.

Could you put a thermal barrier on the inside of the studs and/or fill their cavities with faced fiberglass insulation? If you could do that and leave a 1" air gap between the stud wall and concrete wall, I believe that would be a better solution.

Is moisture and/or humidity a concern for you? [You mentioned styrofoam as moisture/thermal barrier which is why I'm mentioning this here.] If so, Rockwool is another option as it is naturally resistant to absorbing water. Or you could install faced fiberglass insulation with the paper facing outward (toward the higher moisture content, if it's not an excessive issue). FYI, in my local market, Rockwool is 2x the cost of fiberglass insulation.




Rightfully so!

If you do not de-couple your stud wall to the concrete wall, and if the concrete wall is in any way connected to your living room upstairs (e.g. common foundation), the sound will get up there. Just food-for-thought in reference to your 1st question above.




Yes. Box of 20 ~100 (e.g., http://www.amazon.com/SpecSeal-SSP-P...rds=putty+pads)

I can't tell from the picture for sure, but they look identical to 3M fire and acoustic pads I've used before that were slightly larger and thicker than QuietPutty pads (and cheaper).



Understood. The best form of isolation is a double stud wall with floating ceiling. No clips, but requires lots of wood or steel studs & joists. In your situation, it sounds like decoupling the HT room ceiling will be a priority.

What are your room dimensions (LxWxH)? What is the ceiling in your HT room composed of? Is there a floor truss above it, wood beams, concrete, etc.? What are the other walls in your HT room composed of? And what is the sub-floor made of?
HT Geek, you have been very helpful. I forgot to mention that the wall I built parallel to the concrete wall also has about a 3.5" air gap between the 1" Styrofoam and the stud wall. I haven't built the second wall along the concrete yet. I do have another wall we have built to separate the HT from my storage area. the distance from that wall to the nearest concrete wall is about 13'. My stud walls are fastened into the the joist above and the floor below now, so there is no way adding clips there now. For now I am just going to go with one layer off 1/2" Sheetrock and add Rockwool insulation. It is about $15 to $20 more the fiberglass insulation. I may just insulate the one to the concrete first since I can get to the other at any time to add insulation if needed.

For the ceiling I am not doing anything at this time other then maybe adding Rockwool between the joist to see if that helps with sound first.

My room I am building is going to be around 21'x25.5' when I am done, with the back wall opened to the rest of the basement for now. Not sure if I am going to add a wall there or not. If sound is a big issue for the wife then I will have to, but I want to make the area that connects with HT to be a bar/gaming area. I will try to upload some photos this weekend of the area.

Thank you for the help,

Doug
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
So, is there already a 1" air gap between your studs and the concrete wall?



It depends. If you'd like sound from your HT room to travel through the wall to whatever its connected to, then no. If you don't want that to happen, then yes it's important that it be decoupled.

Could you put a thermal barrier on the inside of the studs and/or fill their cavities with faced fiberglass insulation? If you could do that and leave a 1" air gap between the stud wall and concrete wall, I believe that would be a better solution.

Is moisture and/or humidity a concern for you? [You mentioned styrofoam as moisture/thermal barrier which is why I'm mentioning this here.] If so, Rockwool is another option as it is naturally resistant to absorbing water. Or you could install faced fiberglass insulation with the paper facing outward (toward the higher moisture content, if it's not an excessive issue). FYI, in my local market, Rockwool is 2x the cost of fiberglass insulation.




Rightfully so!

If you do not de-couple your stud wall to the concrete wall, and if the concrete wall is in any way connected to your living room upstairs (e.g. common foundation), the sound will get up there. Just food-for-thought in reference to your 1st question above.




Yes. Box of 20 ~100 (e.g., http://www.amazon.com/SpecSeal-SSP-P...rds=putty+pads)

I can't tell from the picture for sure, but they look identical to 3M fire and acoustic pads I've used before that were slightly larger and thicker than QuietPutty pads (and cheaper).



Understood. The best form of isolation is a double stud wall with floating ceiling. No clips, but requires lots of wood or steel studs & joists. In your situation, it sounds like decoupling the HT room ceiling will be a priority.

What are your room dimensions (LxWxH)? What is the ceiling in your HT room composed of? Is there a floor truss above it, wood beams, concrete, etc.? What are the other walls in your HT room composed of? And what is the sub-floor made of?
HT Geek, you have been very helpful. I forgot to mention that the wall I built parallel to the concrete wall also has about a 3.5" air gap between the 1" Styrofoam and the stud wall. I haven't built the second wall along the concrete yet. I do have another wall we have built to separate the HT from my storage area. the distance from that wall to the nearest concrete wall is about 13'. My stud walls are fastened into the the joist above and the floor below now, so there is no way adding clips there now. For now I am just going to go with one layer off 1/2" Sheetrock and add Rockwool insulation. It is about $15 to $20 more the fiberglass insulation. I may just insulate the one to the concrete first since I can get to the other at any time to add insulation if needed.

For the ceiling I am not doing anything at this time other then maybe adding Rockwool between the joist to see if that helps with sound first.

My room I am building is going to be around 21'x25.5' when I am done, with the back wall opened to the rest of the basement for now. Not sure if I am going to add a wall there or not. If sound is a big issue for the wife then I will have to, but I want to make the area that connects with HT to be a bar/gaming area. I will try to upload some photos this weekend of the area.

Thank you for the help,

Doug
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I forgot to mention that the wall I built parallel to the concrete wall also has about a 3.5" air gap between the 1" Styrofoam and the stud wall.
Doug,

That 3.5" buffer is plenty of room. FYI, you can have the smallest of gaps, so long as when your inner wall is vibrated by sound it does not touch the neighboring surface (i.e. just enough to separate the HT room structure from neighboring structures; presuming one is building a room-within-a-room concept). Most folks recommend 1" because it avoids problems such as studs that are not perfectly straight.

Quote:
I haven't built the second wall along the concrete yet. I do have another wall we have built to separate the HT from my storage area. the distance from that wall to the nearest concrete wall is about 13'.
I'm a little confused by your comments above. By "second wall" are you referring to the next wall for your HT room (presumably that will be connected to your first wall)?


Quote:
My stud walls are fastened into the the joist above and the floor below now, so there is no way adding clips there now. For now I am just going to go with one layer off 1/2" Sheetrock and add Rockwool insulation. It is about $15 to $20 more the fiberglass insulation. I may just insulate the one to the concrete first since I can get to the other at any time to add insulation if needed.
You should plan on at least 2 layers of sheetrock. The more mass, the better (at stopping sound from entering/leaving a room). 5/8" is the gold standard. It is ~0.2psf heavier than 1/2" drywall. You mentioned before that you have a tight budget. 5/8 is nearly the same price as 1/2 drywall. Make sure you do not use the "lightweight" or "performance" drywall. You can skip the viscoelastic damping compound that is recommended between drywall layers (e.g. Green Glue or Quiet Glue Pro). You might be able to substitute something else such as #30 roofing felt to at least provide some other option, but please don't quote me on that... if you search in the forum you might find someone who has tried that... I have not... just tossing out alternative concepts that don't cost a lot of $$$$ such as Green Glue. But I'd say at least do 2 layers of sheetrock plus insulation. It's probably the cheapest of all the materials you need for the job, excluding screws.

Other thoughts... just because we don't have photos atm... are you thinking of sheet rocking your existing/1st wall before you put up the other walls? That would not be a good idea for a number of reasons. You need to get all the framing done first, then figure out where/how things such as electrical, low voltage, and speaker wire will be routed before you even put in the insulation.

MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl) can be installed on the studs/joists prior to drywall, but I don't recommend it. The cons outweigh the benefits (difficult to handle/install, easily short-circuited, relatively expensive, not very effective). Put up a 3rd layer of drywall if you think 2 layers is not cutting the sound enough.

Am I correct in presuming this room is in your basement and the floor is concrete?

Are you planning to build a riser? A soffit?

Will you be viewing a TV or a projector screen?

Back to the framing, etc.... so, there are going to be trade-offs. If you have not done so already, stop your work and think hard about your starting goals. For example, you mentioned your concerns about noise emanating from your HT room to the room above. (btw, I say "starting goals" because I have learned that you will encounter challenges along your journey that cause you to stop and question your goals, and they may change for this reason as you work through the project)

Have you also considered the potential effect of the reverse, i.e. sound from the room above filtering into your dedicated HT room? Impact or footfall noise can be particularly difficult to mitigate, especially if there are hardwood floors in that room.

Regardless of which direction is an issue, if sound propagation through the HT ceiling is a big issue, you will have to make a significant effort to dampen or eliminate pathways that sound can travel back and forth. For example, walls directly attached to the joists above, which are directly attached to the sub-floor in the room above, will likely be a big headache for you. There are varying levels of extremism that you could go to. If you can't stand any noise in that room above, then you will need to take extreme measures. If you can tolerate some and/or are willing to turn down the volume at times in the HT room, you can take less extreme measures.

Since you've only done one wall so far, I know it sounds drastic but you ought to consider the pros and cons of removing it and replacing it with a de-coupled wall (via IB3 or RSIC-DC04 clips every 2-4 feet [distance depends on clip model & exact use] to provide structural integrity through a de-coupled connection to a neighboring structural stud wall and/or concrete wall). You could also consider framing the remaining walls and ceiling and then using clips and channels to isolate them, or maybe clip the ceiling but that is really overkill in your situation. Since you have the opportunity to build the walls the way you want them, using a double stud arrangement seems like the best bang-for-the-buck (and cheaper) route to me.

Could you build another wall inside the one you already built and use this new inner wall as your HT wall? Sort of start over on the wall but without tearing out your existing work? It's difficult to make suggestions like this without seeing a diagram and/or photos. If not, just working with what you've got right now... you could damp the space between the floors with as much drywall (mass) as you can shove in there plus some insulation to help reduce airborne noise. Just be aware that if the HT room walls and ceiling are physically connected to the floor joists above, you are going to get vibration and some sound transferred as a result (especially LFE or Low Frequency Emissions).

These are just a couple of many concepts that might be helpful for you to consider.


Quote:
For the ceiling I am not doing anything at this time other then maybe adding Rockwool between the joist to see if that helps with sound first.
As I mentioned above, it will help with airborne noise but your main nemesis is going to be the sound travelling through all that interconnected woodwork (joists, etc.). Imagine all those structural points in your home are electrical circuits. As yourself if you were to apply a current to any of the points in your HT room, would it travel up to the room above? Then try and determine how many of those "short circuit" points there are. One or two will not be a drastic issue for most people, but dozens will be.


Quote:
My room I am building is going to be around 21'x25.5' when I am done, with the back wall opened to the rest of the basement for now. Not sure if I am going to add a wall there or not. If sound is a big issue for the wife then I will have to, but I want to make the area that connects with HT to be a bar/gaming area. I will try to upload some photos this weekend of the area.
Sounds like it will be awesome when you're finished.

A few other miscellaneous thoughts:

1. Don't frame in a perfectly square room. Square shaped rooms tend to amplify a problem involving reflected sound waves. You'll have less work taming any echos or related problems if your room is rectangular.

2. Think about egress in/out of the room. Where would you like to have the door/entrance? I'd suggest you don't put it on the same wall as the screen or TV.

3. Overall shape of your space, where the stairs will be relative to the sound waves bouncing around, etc.


Quote:
Thank you for the help,
My pleasure, and glad it's helpful. I tend to be verbose, so please let me know if I'm giving you TMI.

I don't know everything but I have learned (and continue to learn) a lot from experience (mostly screwing things up and then figuring out how to fix them or live with them) and from many other contributors on AVS.

My #1 piece of advice is try to get a good grip on your true goals and desires, be realistic with yourself, and don't get discouraged when you determine something hasn't gone as you expected or you need to rip it out and do it over again. Then enjoy the journey. It's a huge project and it will take [a lot of] time. When you're done, all your friends (and wife) will be impressed.

This stuff gets overwhelming very quickly. Just focus on your walls and ceiling plan for now. Worry about other issues such as flanking noise after you get your rough plan figured out.

Last edited by HT Geek; 01-27-2016 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
the distance from that wall to the nearest concrete wall is about 13'.
Sounds like an excellent location for an A/V or rack room. If you have the space, consider an independent "room" for your A/V equipment, DVDs, etc.

If you search up Art's theater (w/photos) he did this and it's a great concept. Wish my home's layout would allow me to do the same.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:12 PM
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I have a bedroom/closet on the other side (two wall) theater room... should the speakers be on the opposite side (furthest away but pointed in the direction of the bedroom) or should they be on the same wall (but pointed away)?

I've heard some people refer to subwoofers as omnidirectional... and since LFE is harder to contain, where would it be advisable to place my speakers and screen when it pertains to that bedroom?
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:29 PM
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I have a bedroom/closet on the other side (two wall) theater room... should the speakers be on the opposite side (furthest away but pointed in the direction of the bedroom) or should they be on the same wall (but pointed away)?

I've heard some people refer to subwoofers as omnidirectional... and since LFE is harder to contain, where would it be advisable to place my speakers and screen when it pertains to that bedroom?
I cannot answer your question definitively, but I'd say it would be worthwhile to look at a polar plot of your speakers, if you can find one. That would at least give you a good idea of what kind of emissions to expect behind the speaker cabinets, their strength, and frequency. That said, LFE is going to travel further - as you said.

You might also consider punching your room dimensions into a standing wave calculator (Excel version attached to this post). This site is also informative. At the opposite end of the spectrum is Bob's calculator (it looks plain-Jane... until you hit the calc button). Bob's conveniently converts between imperial and metric.

What type and amount of absorption were you planning for the wall opposite the speakers?

Have you considered a baffle wall?
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nandkisham View Post
Can we just keep the 48" (Horizontal) and 24" (V) oc channel placement for this added weight?
Not sure which clip you are considering, but RSIC-1 tech spec attached for your convenience since it is more or less an industry standard. See pgs. 6-7 for max load and O.C. spacing requirements. There are some 16 O.C. scenarios.

It's possible the shear strength of double screw clips such as the Whisper Clip or Genie Clip may be a better fit for heavy loads. OTOH, they are also rated @ 36 lbs. max. Just saying logically you'd think 2 screws would be better than one, but I don't know. I also would not want to be the guinea pig tester who finds out. LOL.

There are 48+ lb. clips (max I've seen is 144 lbs.), but many of them are for different applications such as suspended ceilings. I believe 36 lbs. shear force is standard for hat channel clips. You could of course always increase your clip density psf and that would solve the problem.
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
I cannot answer your question definitively, but I'd say it would be worthwhile to look at a polar plot of your speakers, if you can find one. That would at least give you a good idea of what kind of emissions to expect behind the speaker cabinets, their strength, and frequency. That said, LFE is going to travel further - as you said.

You might also consider punching your room dimensions into a standing wave calculator (Excel version attached to this post). This site is also informative. At the opposite end of the spectrum is Bob's calculator (it looks plain-Jane... until you hit the calc button). Bob's conveniently converts between imperial and metric.

What type and amount of absorption were you planning for the wall opposite the speakers?

Have you considered a baffle wall?
Yes, currently I'm going over the idea of a baffle wall (I've seen at least one member here who's placed the 1099 inside a baffle wall. If it would help having a baffle wall on the same wall (it's not since it'll be double framed), then yes, I will strongly look into building one.

I'm curious, what the standing waves inside the room would mean for the bedroom on the other side?
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by amit916 View Post
Yes, currently I'm going over the idea of a baffle wall (I've seen at least one member here who's placed the 1099 inside a baffle wall. If it would help having a baffle wall on the same wall (it's not since it'll be double framed), then yes, I will strongly look into building one.
Proceed with caution if you do. For starters, I'd suggest consulting with Erich or Tux on the subject. I recall there is a resistor mod for the 1099 when behind or in front of a screen (I don't recall which). I don't know if that would be relevant but they may have some input on using the 1099 in a baffle.

I'd also suggest a modicum of general research on baffle walls. They are easy to 'screw up' per se. For instance, the surface of the wall needs to be flat, padding/dampening in the right places around the speaker, etc. That being said, it's like almost everything you read here.... There are the ideal or reference methods, and then there are the methods that are 'good enough' for any particular person. Only you can determine your needs and associated reasonable level-of-effort that suits them.

I'm attaching a few documents on the subject to this post that may be worth a read.

And here are a few of the finer points I've collected over time (mostly from senior AVS members):
  • Ideally front [front of room] of speaker baffle should be flush with absorption
  • Baffle should not be significantly recessed into absorption.
  • You best have your speaker placement exact for proper listening and sound stage creation ... you're not moving them later
  • There is no standard, rule of thumb approach.
  • A poor baffle wall will do more damage to SQ than a good baffle wall will do to improve SQ (SQ = sound quality)
  • The key to getting the advantages of a baffle wall without creating other, non-fixable problems, is to know the speaker's performance (polar radiation plots for example) and design the baffle to that end. A baffle wall must take into account the space, the speaker and the goals you're trying to achieve.

Dennis Erskine's tips on the subject:
  • run stage to ceiling, wall to wall
  • be very rigid
  • allow no resonances in the cavity behind the wall
  • be covered with 1" (sometimes more depending on speaker) of a black absorptive material (reduces reflections between the screen and the wall)
  • have the speakers resiliently mounted to the baffle
  • have no air gaps between the speaker body and the baffle wall
  • have all front speakers including the front subs in the same continuous baffle
  • The speakers themselves should be covered with black absorptive material with cut outs for the drivers

As you can see, it is not an undertaking for the faint-of-heart!


Quote:
I'm curious, what the standing waves inside the room would mean for the bedroom on the other side?
Bit of a tangential thought on my part... perhaps if the wall in question landed in a null that might help you out. I don't know for sure that it would. Just a random thought that seemed worth mentioning. I suspect it would be difficult to orchestrate in a useful fashion unless you happen to get lucky. OTOH, if limiting certain frequencies were a priority, you could consider it in your design plans (but best verify the concept with an acoustician first)!

Cheers.
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Old 02-05-2016, 11:20 AM
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maybe someone can help me with this question I saw on the green glue website that the don't recommend green glue be used on 16" oc stud wall? Is it still possible to do, I built my back wall 16 oc my side wall is not built yet but my back and side wall which is an exisitng are both 16" oc any suggestions?
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Originally Posted by jeremy_daniel View Post
maybe someone can help me with this question I saw on the green glue website that the don't recommend green glue be used on 16" oc stud wall? Is it still possible to do, I built my back wall 16 oc my side wall is not built yet but my back and side wall which is an exisitng are both 16" oc any suggestions?
That's surely referring to the fact that you don't apply Green Glue directly to the studs. Rather, you apply Green Glue in between sheets of drywall (or other sheet goods).

16" OC walls is very common and is actually code in certain places.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy_daniel View Post
maybe someone can help me with this question I saw on the green glue website that the don't recommend green glue be used on 16" oc stud wall? Is it still possible to do...?
Yes, that's not a problem. The only reason they suggest that is because you will get slightly better sound isolation with your studs as far apart as possible (i.e. 24" O.C.). Basically, there is just less wood to vibrate/transmit sound when the studs are further apart. I can't tell you the performance difference off the top-of-my-head, but it is slight.


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Originally Posted by granroth View Post
16" OC walls is very common and is actually code in certain places.
Wouldn't surprise me, but if your local building code mirrors the IRBC (most do), 24" O.C. is permissible if the walls are not exterior. If this is a room-within-a-room, in most cases you can do 24" OC as the wall is not supporting the main structure.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Proceed with caution if you do. For starters, I'd suggest consulting with Erich or Tux on the subject. I recall there is a resistor mod for the 1099 when behind or in front of a screen (I don't recall which). I don't know if that would be relevant but they may have some input on using the 1099 in a baffle.

I'd also suggest a modicum of general research on baffle walls. They are easy to 'screw up' per se. For instance, the surface of the wall needs to be flat, padding/dampening in the right places around the speaker, etc. That being said, it's like almost everything you read here.... There are the ideal or reference methods, and then there are the methods that are 'good enough' for any particular person. Only you can determine your needs and associated reasonable level-of-effort that suits them.

I'm attaching a few documents on the subject to this post that may be worth a read.

And here are a few of the finer points I've collected over time (mostly from senior AVS members):
  • Ideally front [front of room] of speaker baffle should be flush with absorption
  • Baffle should not be significantly recessed into absorption.
  • You best have your speaker placement exact for proper listening and sound stage creation ... you're not moving them later
  • There is no standard, rule of thumb approach.
  • A poor baffle wall will do more damage to SQ than a good baffle wall will do to improve SQ (SQ = sound quality)
  • The key to getting the advantages of a baffle wall without creating other, non-fixable problems, is to know the speaker's performance (polar radiation plots for example) and design the baffle to that end. A baffle wall must take into account the space, the speaker and the goals you're trying to achieve.

Dennis Erskine's tips on the subject:
  • run stage to ceiling, wall to wall
  • be very rigid
  • allow no resonances in the cavity behind the wall
  • be covered with 1" (sometimes more depending on speaker) of a black absorptive material (reduces reflections between the screen and the wall)
  • have the speakers resiliently mounted to the baffle
  • have no air gaps between the speaker body and the baffle wall
  • have all front speakers including the front subs in the same continuous baffle
  • The speakers themselves should be covered with black absorptive material with cut outs for the drivers

As you can see, it is not an undertaking for the faint-of-heart!




Bit of a tangential thought on my part... perhaps if the wall in question landed in a null that might help you out. I don't know for sure that it would. Just a random thought that seemed worth mentioning. I suspect it would be difficult to orchestrate in a useful fashion unless you happen to get lucky. OTOH, if limiting certain frequencies were a priority, you could consider it in your design plans (but best verify the concept with an acoustician first)!

Cheers.
I spoke with Tux and he said that it would be fine without any changes, though there would be a dip... also it's a very daunting task to take in information, digest it, and then hope I don't screw up. It's definitely something I'm going to look into once the room is sealed up since I was always planning on doing a false wall with my screen. It's definitely something I'll have to dive head first in once the room is sealed and see if that's something I want.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by amit916 View Post
I spoke with Tux and he said that it would be fine without any changes, though there would be a dip... also it's a very daunting task to take in information, digest it, and then hope I don't screw up. It's definitely something I'm going to look into once the room is sealed up since I was always planning on doing a false wall with my screen. It's definitely something I'll have to dive head first in once the room is sealed and see if that's something I want.
Good that you spoke with him. Also your approach is sound. You may not even notice the dip (or you might not care).

Agreed these projects are daunting. I find myself going down the rabbit hole quite often. It's difficult to stay on the task of building a room and not exploring any other side tracks (at least for me).
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:32 PM
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That's surely referring to the fact that you don't apply Green Glue directly to the studs. Rather, you apply Green Glue in between sheets of drywall (or other sheet goods).

16" OC walls is very common and is actually code in certain places.
Sorry yea I knew it was glued to the sheet rock not the studs. I was just curious because of their site recomendation, but good to know
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:50 PM
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DIY experiment thought
On last week's Mythbusters, they were lifting up cars with a vacuum.
In the boxes they finally made, they made a mold affixed to the box for a rubber seal, and poured liquid rubber into it, and the next day removed the mold leaving a large rubber seal that obviously was incredibly sealed to the box.
I wonder if the same could be done with door seals, and if that would be better than say the GM Trunk seals.

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Old 02-13-2016, 04:34 PM
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I've got a question about using Green Glue is a residential (non-theater) application. We had Quietrock put in to separate a section of our home when remodeling. The baseboard hasn't been put back yet and sound comes through where the wall meets the floor. I was wondering if Green Glue could be used to secure the baseboard to the wall. Is GG effective if the materials aren't both drywall? Can you sandwich GG between quietrock and 3/4" wood (VGDF)? Also, Is there an acoustic caulk I can use to seal against the floor?

Thanks, guys. I also have a dedicated HT. Just didn't want y'all to think I was deprived.
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:39 PM
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I've got a question about using Green Glue is a residential (non-theater) application. We had Quietrock put in to separate a section of our home when remodeling. The baseboard hasn't been put back yet and sound comes through where the wall meets the floor. I was wondering if Green Glue could be used to secure the baseboard to the wall. Is GG effective if the materials aren't both drywall? Can you sandwich GG between quietrock and 3/4" wood (VGDF)?

Can you use GG as an acoustic caulk? The GG joint would be lateral to the sound travel. Specifically, if I attempted to seal the baseboard to the floor with a bead of GG, would that be effective? The sandwich would then be between the bottom of the baseboard and the floor... 90 degrees to the usual orientation. If GG is not good in that situation, is there an acoustic caulk I can use to seal the baseboard against the floor?

Thanks, guys. I also have a dedicated HT. Just didn't want y'all to think I was deprived.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I was wondering if Green Glue could be used to secure the baseboard to the wall.
No.
Usually one uses finishing nails, covered with white caulk, then painted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Is GG effective if the materials aren't both drywall?
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Can you sandwich GG between quietrock and 3/4" wood (VGDF)?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Can you use GG as an acoustic caulk?
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
is there an acoustic caulk I can use to seal the baseboard against the floor?
Yes.
Although it's the wall that should be sealed to the floor, rather than the baseboard. The baseboard is more cosmetic.



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Last edited by BasementBob; 02-13-2016 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:08 PM
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No.
Usually one uses finishing nails, covered with white caulk, then painted.



Yes.



Yes.


No.



Yes.
Although it's the wall that should be sealed to the floor, rather than the baseboard. The baseboard is more cosmetic.


I left your whole response because I like it! Thanks.

I ordered GG sealant. I hope to squirt it into the gaps between the wall and floor and then cover with baseboard. It's all I can do since this was a retrofit and the floor is continuous.

It's interesting to generate white noise on one side and take an SPL meter to the other. You can pass it over the wall and clearly see your problem spots. It lead me to the wall/floor joints.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BasementBob View Post
DIY experiment thought
On last week's Mythbusters, they were lifting up cars with a vacuum.
In the boxes they finally made, they made a mold affixed to the box for a rubber seal, and poured liquid rubber into it, and the next day removed the mold leaving a large rubber seal that obviously was incredibly sealed to the box.
I wonder if the same could be done with door seals, and if that would be better than say the GM Trunk seals.
Interesting thought. Close the door, leaving a gap between it and the jamb. Put a mold around that gap, sealing it (mostly) in. Pour in the liquid rubber in the one place that's left open. Seal that spot. Wait for it to dry. Remove the mold. The end result might be a rubber seal that perfectly fits the door.

Cost effective?

Maybe roofing rubber would work? Here is some for $72 a gallon: http://www.epdmcoatings.com/epdm-liq...e-1-gallon.php

That covers 42 sq ft at 20mil thickness, or 120 cu inches.

A typical seal going around both sides and top of door would be maybe 1/2" x 1/2" by 190" long. That's just under 48 cu in of needed material. Add in a bottom stop and it's still only around 55 cu in, so even a half-gallon would be enough. A full gallon could do two communicating doors.

I'm not actually sure where you can even buy GM type k trunk seals anymore. It's historically gone for around a $1 a foot, though, and in 50 ft increments. So $50 < $72.

I sealed my door with regular exterior door weatherstripping (the one with the kerf) and that ran me roughly $15 for the dor.

So no, it's not going to be as cheap to use the liquid rubber, but you likely don't get as good of a seal with the pre-made products either.

Hrm. Definitely an interesting thought experiment.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I've got a question about using Green Glue is a residential (non-theater) application. We had Quietrock put in to separate a section of our home when remodeling. The baseboard hasn't been put back yet and sound comes through where the wall meets the floor. I was wondering if Green Glue could be used to secure the baseboard to the wall. Is GG effective if the materials aren't both drywall? Can you sandwich GG between quietrock and 3/4" wood (VGDF)?

Can you use GG as an acoustic caulk? The GG joint would be lateral to the sound travel. Specifically, if I attempted to seal the baseboard to the floor with a bead of GG, would that be effective? The sandwich would then be between the bottom of the baseboard and the floor... 90 degrees to the usual orientation. If GG is not good in that situation, is there an acoustic caulk I can use to seal the baseboard against the floor?

Thanks, guys. I also have a dedicated HT. Just didn't want y'all to think I was deprived.
According to the Quietrock instructions, you are supposed to use Quietseal, around the perimeter of the Quietrock when you install it. I also then ran a bead of Quietseal along the seam between the floor and the bottom of the Quietrock then nailed the baseboard in. I guess GG sealant is similar to Quietseal and probably will work just fine.

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Old 02-14-2016, 07:50 AM
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Yes, yes you can!

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I've got a question about using Green Glue is a residential (non-theater) application. We had Quietrock put in to separate a section of our home when remodeling. The baseboard hasn't been put back yet and sound comes through where the wall meets the floor. I was wondering if Green Glue could be used to secure the baseboard to the wall.
Yes.

Green Glue is not an adhesive (i.e. you still need to nail it). You could use it between the baseboard and wall, but I'm not sure it would benefit you enough to make it worthwhile.

First, hopefully you understand a little about what QuietRock is. It is 2 layers of 1/2" drywall with a viscoelastic material sandwiched in between. The product is assembled like this in the factory. It is allowed to cure (dry) and then shipped to various stores as a pre-assembled damped drywall product. So, although it does not utilize Green Glue, it is using a similar product.

Now, to your concern.... First you need to determine (or estimate) why is the sound coming from that area? For instance, it's quite possible you are hearing flanking noise via the floor/floor joists. If that is the case then treating the area between the baseboard and wall is unlikely to help much - though it could help some.

it certainly would not hurt to use GG in the manner you've prescribed though. There's just the cost and time associated. As an intermediary step, I would suggest caulking where your QuietRock meets the floor or sub-floor with an acoustical caulk (GG is not a caulk). If the sound is coming from that area and slipping underneath the QueitRock, you should see an improvement with that step, before installing baseboard.

The more details you're able to provide about your circumstances, the more targeted responses you'll receive. For example, what floor of your home is this room on? Are there other living areas above, below, or beside it? What is the floor or sub-floor in the room? Is the floor finished? What other details might impact how sound travels into or out of this room?


Quote:
Is GG effective if the materials aren't both drywall? Can you sandwich GG between quietrock and 3/4" wood (VGDF)?
Yes and Yes.

Quote:
Can you use GG as an acoustic caulk?
Sort of but not recommended. It's more of a damping compound. If you are going to seal edges for example, I'd recommend using an acoustical caulk such as Green Glue Noiseproofing Compound (there are others you could use; e.g. Grabber makes a sound + smoke sealant that is cheap and works well).

Quote:
The GG joint would be lateral to the sound travel. Specifically, if I attempted to seal the baseboard to the floor with a bead of GG, would that be effective?
Sound bounces around, so while the source may be emanating from a direction that is lateral to your wall, that doesn't mean the sound is entering your room only laterally. That said, as stated above it will likely help; it just might not help much. You need to figure out how the unwanted sound is getting into your space. Sometimes, this requires trial and error. So, you may want to take the steps you've described but be prepared for disappointing results if the main source is flanking noise coming from elsewhere. Won't hurt though. Think of it as if you were trying to locate and plug multiple water leaks in your home. It takes time, investigation, and trial & error to sort it all out.


Quote:
The sandwich would then be between the bottom of the baseboard and the floor... 90 degrees to the usual orientation.
As long as you are making some sort of 'sandwich', use GG. If you're sealing edges such as floor plate to sub-floor, drywall edge, etc., use an acoustical caulk and not GG.

Quote:
If GG is not good in that situation, is there an acoustic caulk I can use to seal the baseboard against the floor?
See comments above. Use acoustical caulk.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:09 PM
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According to the Quietrock instructions, you are supposed to use Quietseal, around the perimeter of the Quietrock when you install it.
...
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Yes.

Green Glue is not an adhesive (i.e. you still need to nail it). You could use it between the baseboard and wall, but I'm not sure it would benefit you enough to make it worthwhile.
...
Terrific information, guys. I have some Quietseal on order.

I also have a sound meter and a white noise generator to track down the failure points. It's surprisingly effective!
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:32 PM
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In a dedicated theather room I'm building I have decoupled the foundation walls and am going to use one layers of 5/8" OSB, green glue and one layer of 5/8" dry wall. For the ceiling I am using clips and channels with 5/8" OSB, GG and 5/8" dry wall. Although I frequently hear that people do the ceiling layer and the wall layer intertwined, I am planning to do the walls first, then put the ceiling inside the wall edge, and then caulk the small gap with acoustical seal. Has anyone done this and can it be just as effective as intertwining the wall and ceiling layers?
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:23 PM
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According to the Quietrock instructions, you are supposed to use Quietseal, around the perimeter of the Quietrock when you install it. I also then ran a bead of Quietseal along the seam between the floor and the bottom of the Quietrock then nailed the baseboard in. I guess GG sealant is similar to Quietseal and probably will work just fine.
Yes, as in the diagram BasementBob mentioned.

QuietSeal, Grabber Smoke & Sound Sealant, Green Glue Sealant.... they are all similar. They perform the same function.

Just be cautioned that it might not solve the problem to your satisfaction. If the root cause is flanking sound, it won't eliminate it. Still, it won't hurt either and may at least reduce the intensity of the sound.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:27 PM
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... can it be just as effective as intertwining the wall and ceiling layers?
The benefit of 'intertwining' as you put it, is largely to provide another layer of redundancy with respect to sound proofing and plugging any holes.

Is your HT-room-to-be in the basement, 2nd floor, etc.??
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:44 AM
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I am planning to do the walls first, then put the ceiling inside the wall edge, and then caulk the small gap with acoustical seal. Has anyone done this and can it be just as effective as intertwining the wall and ceiling layers?
I don't know all the rationale, but in a 'normal drywall' situation, Drywallers hang the Ceiling first. I believe this is largely to a) help manage any gaps from walls that aren't perfectly straight, to enable finishing the seems a bit easier, and b) provide some extra support to the horizontal/drywall ceiling boards - as they then 'rest' on the vertical boards. I think if a board needs shaved a little to fit, and that is hidden by the vertical board, then it isn't as challenging to make look nice.

In terms of sound proofing, I would think the intertwined approach might be slightly better, as then there is solid mass that sound has to get through vs having only to get through acoustic sealant. If it is intertwined (either vertical, then horizontal, or horizontal then vertical), there are solid pieces of drywall that sound has to get through. I can't imagine it is all that big of a difference, but I would think at least a little less effective. This is simply my 'mind' thinking of logic vs anything I have read/seen, so, I could certainly be incorrect.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:14 PM
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I don't know all the rationale, but in a 'normal drywall' situation, Drywallers hang the Ceiling first. I believe this is largely to a) help manage any gaps from walls that aren't perfectly straight, to enable finishing the seems a bit easier, and b) provide some extra support to the horizontal/drywall ceiling boards - as they then 'rest' on the vertical boards. I think if a board needs shaved a little to fit, and that is hidden by the vertical board, then it isn't as challenging to make look nice.
Good points. Though, I'm thinking with multiple layers the order of installation should matter less (or not at all) provided those layers are alternated (i.e. ceiling - wall - ceiling - wall OR wall - ceiling - wall ceiling). To your other point, that alternation of layers is presumably what provides assurance that you're not relying on the caulk to stop sound penetration along the edges.
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:12 AM
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Green Glue Tape & Mud 1st Drywall layer Question

Would it hurt or help if I tape & mudd the first layer of drywall seams before applying Green Glue to the second layer of drywall? (I know its extra work but I already paid drywaller for tape & mudding the first layer of DW)

Thanks in advance!
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