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post #1 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Room is 24' x 12'. It was a garage but the previous owners made it into a finish bedroom so walls, ceilings etc are all finished.


I'm having a hard time with the following:

  1. Windows. Should I block them or just get some nice auto shades?
  2. Knee wall. Expand it up so it's a flat wall? How would this affect the windows?
  3. Where to put my rack. After playing around with locations this is the only place I can think of. The right side is another room with the washer/dryer and boiler and the other wall has stairs behind it. That means I have to leave it in the room so I figured build a little room in the back for it.
  4. Ventilation. I'm thinking that I can vent out under the stairs. With a silent fan would this provide enough ventilation to the room?

Does anyone have a better layout? Ideas on how to better place the media rack?


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post #2 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 11:28 AM
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Is the right side wall load bearing? I'd heavily consider moving it over a few feet.
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post #3 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 12:47 PM
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You want to avoid square or cubed rooms. 12'x24' (lets not hope it is 8' high) is going to be like a square room where modes are going to build on each other at the same frequency (low end decay) and not sound all that great. Not saying you can't tame it with bass trapping but it is going to make it that much harder.
Can you make it wider?

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post #4 of 23 Old 01-22-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash11 View Post

Is the right side wall load bearing? I'd heavily consider moving it over a few feet.

It has lally columns and the main entrance is about 12 inches from the wall on the other side so moving it might not be the best approach since if I could with the door Id' have three columns in the room that were not there before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post

You want to avoid square or cubed rooms. 12'x24' (lets not hope it is 8' high) is going to be like a square room where modes are going to build on each other at the same frequency (low end decay) and not sound all that great. Not saying you can't tame it with bass trapping but it is going to make it that much harder.
Can you make it wider?

Nope, not wider but if I build that little room off the back for the media and a false wall in the front that brings it down to 19' 8". Is that better?
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post #5 of 23 Old 01-23-2014, 03:17 AM
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With a false wall it still is going to be the 24'. Needless to say you do not want to make the room smaller. Larger is always better. Behind that false wall I would put as much absorption as possible.

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post #6 of 23 Old 01-23-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detzx View Post

Room is 24' x 12'. It was a garage but the previous owners made it into a finish bedroom so walls, ceilings etc are all finished.


I'm having a hard time with the following:

  1. Windows. Should I block them or just get some nice auto shades?
  2. Knee wall. Expand it up so it's a flat wall? How would this affect the windows?
  3. Where to put my rack. After playing around with locations this is the only place I can think of. The right side is another room with the washer/dryer and boiler and the other wall has stairs behind it. That means I have to leave it in the room so I figured build a little room in the back for it.
  4. Ventilation. I'm thinking that I can vent out under the stairs. With a silent fan would this provide enough ventilation to the room?

Does anyone have a better layout? Ideas on how to better place the media rack?


I'd add:
-Make a plug for the windows, others here have done so, will help with noise isolation from the outside coming in.
-leave knee wall as is, integrate your acoustic strategy around it
-what is your thinking for 1st and 2nd row seat location the eye/ear from front wall? Try NOT to have them located at your room modes, there are online mode claculators to assist you, BIG-DC posted this http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp, look under acoustics
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post #7 of 23 Old 01-23-2014, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's another view with some measurements.




I'll have to look into the modes thing, I haven't really thought about sound that much.
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post #8 of 23 Old 01-23-2014, 06:08 PM
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I am not sure how we get folks to understand that there are no faux paus regarding room dimensions or otherwise when it comes to acoustics. Cubed or rectangular, multiples of dimension or not, it does not matter in the grand scheme of things. We need to look at the forest not the trees. Arrangement and integration are the key. Not dimensions. That being said, folks need to understand that we can't fit 10 lbs of stuff into a 5 lb bag with the given dimensions we have. Just looking at things, it looks like your seating will be a bit too wide for the room. I would either reduce the width of seating or widen your room if you want to fit more. Further, is the wall in the back added? If so, I would move it out of the room to give your rear row more room. Dealing with windows is fairly simple. You can deal with those with a large enough piece of acoustical products. Knee wall is fine as well. Hope this helps! Oh, and FYI...sound makes a much more dramatic impact than video.

Shawn Byrne
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post #9 of 23 Old 01-23-2014, 07:55 PM
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Ideas, sure!

I would demo the closet and use an infrared repeater system to get the av rack outside the room.

I would extend the riser outside the room and match it's height with the first step. I would add an island
style riser on top of the riser if need be, to create proper sightlines for the second row.

I would deepen the front AT space to 30" and frame the upper side wall flush with the lower wall and use this
wall depth for window plugs.

And I would take to heart, Shawn's message about 10 pounds of stuff in a five pound bag.

Is that a minisplit between the windows? And how tall is the room?
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post #10 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for your input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post

Just looking at things, it looks like your seating will be a bit too wide for the room. I would either reduce the width of seating or widen your room if you want to fit more.

36" isn't enough for a walkway? Why do you think they're too big? I'm not sure on seating yet, I just pulled these dimensions form one of the home theater sites for an idea. I might do a couch in the back and two seats in the front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post

Further, is the wall in the back added? If so, I would move it out of the room to give your rear row more room.

Yes, I added it to support the media center but last night while trying to plan autistic treatments and 7.1 I realized I need that room so I worked up a new version of just a rack in the center of the room. The problem with moving it out of the room is it would have to be about 30 ft away and there is no easy way to run all the wires and conduit since the basement is finished. I would love nothing more to move it to my office but running the dozens of wires needed might be too much of a challenge. It wont be a rack, it will be a little closet in the back of the room with a built in rack. There is room to either run the cables under the riser to the areas I need or vent it under the stairs.



Does this make more sense leaving the corners and side walls open for speakers and treatments? I also plugged the windows and made the AT wall 6" wider as Tedd suggested.
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post #11 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
I am not sure how we get folks to understand that there are no faux paus regarding room dimensions or otherwise when it comes to acoustics. Cubed or rectangular, multiples of dimension or not, it does not matter in the grand scheme of things

Sure it matters. If you can avoid bad dimensions and it still works then you should.
Quote:
might be too much of a challenge.

If it is then don't

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http://www.gikacoustics.com

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post #12 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post

Sure it matters. If you can avoid bad dimensions and it still works then you should.
If it is then don't

No disrespect, and I used to feel this way as well. I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but after designing hundreds of rooms and personally calibrating many of those designs, I came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. It often looks worse on paper than it really is. The general rule of thumb is, if it comes down to space or modal response...I always go for the space. Further, provided the seating and subwoofers are in optimal places, and you have the tools to calibrate a system, you can often eliminate any modal issues that arise.

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post #13 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detzx View Post

Thanks guys for your input.
36" isn't enough for a walkway? Why do you think they're too big? I'm not sure on seating yet, I just pulled these dimensions form one of the home theater sites for an idea. I might do a couch in the back and two seats in the front.
Yes, I added it to support the media center but last night while trying to plan autistic treatments and 7.1 I realized I need that room so I worked up a new version of just a rack in the center of the room. The problem with moving it out of the room is it would have to be about 30 ft away and there is no easy way to run all the wires and conduit since the basement is finished. I would love nothing more to move it to my office but running the dozens of wires needed might be too much of a challenge. It wont be a rack, it will be a little closet in the back of the room with a built in rack. There is room to either run the cables under the riser to the areas I need or vent it under the stairs.



Does this make more sense leaving the corners and side walls open for speakers and treatments? I also plugged the windows and made the AT wall 6" wider as Tedd suggested.

Ah! Things are much clearer now! 36" is great unless your chairs are butted up along the left wall?

Shawn Byrne
Erskine Group
HAA Design Certified -THX Certified Professional

Design-Video & Audio Calibration Information

The original Pro Theater Layout
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post

I used to think this way as well. But after hundreds of designs and personally calibrating many, I came to the conclusion through experience, that it really doesn't matter. It often look worse on paper than in reality. The general rule of thumb is, if it comes down to space or modal response...I always go for the space. Further, provided the seating and subwoofers are in optimal places, and you have the tools to calibrate a system, you can often eliminate any modal issues that arise.

I am with you on space 100%, but if you have two modes building up at the same frequency it makes it that much harder to tame. It really is that simple. That is the reason why rooms are designed, when possible to have this. Can it be fixed? Yes, but to try to avoid it from the start is always recommended. This is just not my thoughts but every other designer I have met.
Every room is a give and take and how the room flows is always important. You and I are actually closer to agreeing then not. And yes I have designed and tested hundreds of rooms over the years also.smile.gif

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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post #15 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post

I am with you on space 100%, but if you have two modes building up at the same frequency it makes it that much harder to tame. It really is that simple. That is the reason why rooms are designed, when possible to have this. Can it be fixed? Yes, but to try to avoid it from the start is always recommended. This is just not my thoughts but every other designer I have met.
Every room is a give and take and how the room flows is always important. You and I are actually closer to agreeing then not. And yes I have designed and tested hundreds of rooms over the years also.smile.gif

wink.gif

Shawn Byrne
Erskine Group
HAA Design Certified -THX Certified Professional

Design-Video & Audio Calibration Information

The original Pro Theater Layout
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post #16 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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If I did move the rack out of the room what wires would I have to run? So far I have

  • 1 HDMI + 1 Backup (Had one fail)
  • 7 Speaker lines
  • 2-3 Sub lines in different places
  • 2-3 ethernet (just in case).
  • IR lines.


Anything I'm missing? This assuming all my components go to the receiver and one hdmi goes from the receiver to the projector.

Added a stage and soffit above the screen for lights. Both are 9" deep.

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post #17 of 23 Old 01-24-2014, 05:38 PM
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Just fishing... but could the area under the stairs be utilised for the av rack?

How much room is there between the washer dryer and the theater wall? Is there enough circulation
width to work in something like a Middle Atlantic Slim5 rack? Or could you work in the av rack right beside the door and do some
reframing to move the door over? With the rack somewhere along the theater wall, you could add a small soffit with conduit inside to
run up into the front AT space.
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-25-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Just fishing... but could the area under the stairs be utilised for the av rack?

How much room is there between the washer dryer and the theater wall? Is there enough circulation
width to work in something like a Middle Atlantic Slim5 rack? Or could you work in the av rack right beside the door and do some
reframing to move the door over? With the rack somewhere along the theater wall, you could add a small soffit with conduit inside to
run up into the front AT space.

That would be ideal but to get my theater I had to agree to use that space for a playhouse. rolleyes.gif


There might be a way I can use the right wall that goes into the laundry room and then build out a box in that room so it's accessible and not in the theater room. If I were to do that how far from the screen would I want the rack, we're talking 1-5 ft max so where in that range? Any considerations if I were to take this approach?




More pictures showing the rest of the basement, theater will be the room off to the right next to the stairs.


This is the right wall between the theater and laundry room/main entrance. The rack would be stick out into the room on the right about 8' from the main entrance door.
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-25-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, wouldn't that spot be right around my first reflection point? I guess I could cover the rack with a fabric panel too.
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-25-2014, 04:07 PM
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I wouldn't want the displays in peripheral vision.

Playhouse, cool. smile.gif

But, does the playhouse really need to use the full height of it's entire foot print? wink.gif

Maybe you could carve out rack space by having a sloped ceiling in the playhouse area?
A little creativity here could ramp up the cool playhouse factor and get the av rack out of the
theater space.

Maybe the playhouse has two levels and the "bedroom" level has a closet in it,
complete with door and lockset. One that is Slim5 sized. biggrin.gif
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-25-2014, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

I wouldn't want the displays in peripheral vision.

I could put a door on it, or a fabric panel. No reason I need to see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Playhouse, cool. smile.gif

But, does the playhouse really need to use the full height of it's entire foot print? wink.gif

Maybe you could carve out rack space by having a sloped ceiling in the playhouse area?
A little creativity here could ramp up the cool playhouse factor and get the av rack out of the
theater space.

Maybe the playhouse has two levels and the "bedroom" level has a closet in it,
complete with door and lockset. One that is Slim5 sized. biggrin.gif

I wish, the ceiling is already slanted since the stairs go up on the other side so there is very little room above the door (which is 3' off the ground')
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post #22 of 23 Old 01-26-2014, 05:45 AM
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I was thinking the playhouse was to be the right of the theater, in behind the washer and dryer.

You could pull the wall where the stairs double back forward, expand the playhouse foot print and gain space for a an rack above.
Then you could work the theater riser height to match a step height and create a level landing and then bring the step down beyond
the landing. This could integrate the mismatched floor slabs.

You also could work the av rack into the end of the bedroom closet, and use that soffit that you will need, to run conduit to the theater.

You also could plant a small av closet right beside the theater entry door. You could run a strip of wood, then secure a Slim5 to that strip, and then use
3/4" of the other side. This would create a less then 21" wide obstruction in that large opening backing the laundry room.

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post #23 of 23 Old 01-28-2014, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I think this might work if I convince the wife we don't need this closet.

Cut a channel in the ceiling between the joists to run the wires/conduit and put the rack (facing out) in the closet so it's accessible from within the closet but you can see it in the playroom/tv room. It's not in the room and I should be able to run all the wires easily.

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