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post #1 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I came to AVS with a TV question years ago and then a couple of years later came back with oh say a $1000.00 dollar speaker budget that turned into AVS H/T speaker and sub meets to now building a dedicated theater/media room filled with lots of goodies.

Well I figured it was time to get my new thread going as things have changed. I have been through a slew of builders and none have worked out for different reasons, but have found a great guy to do the job and for what I want and feel confident he will give me a beautiful room. The one thing I liked is that he wants everything to be in order because when he starts he wants everything done in process. Carpet, paint colors, soundproofing etc. He wants everything to fall in place without holdups, which I like. The room will be a simple room, I am not doing columns or fancy trim work or fabric walls. I will leave things for the future, but for now I am just getting a foundation done and will certainly be working on many things in the future. I don't have allot to work with so I have to take what I can get for now. I was inspired by Landsharks cozy theater room. I wanted to build an addition for a large theater build, but I have a small room not being used and after I read Landsharks thread, I realized that I could make this room a nice little theater and save myself allot of money going this direction and still have a nice room.


This is the room





As you can see, there is allot of work that needs to be done. The room is 16WX14L on a concrete slab. The room was originally a screen porch, that we refinished into a sort of a mud room or sitting room. We eventually added a bar and made it a summer pool room. The room just lacked heat and AC.

The plan is to gut the interior drywall then remove all the windows (9) Reframe the windows, then reside the exterior of the house with new siding. Then comes the HVAC which I am getting a ductless heat pump (Fujitsu) This seemed to be the answer to heating and cooling the room. I will be adding pocket doors for the entry. We spent quite a bit of time on the entry doors as this was one of the builders biggest concerns. I love the idea of pocket doors considering the room is small and no swigging doors to get in the way. He assured me there will be no vibration from the doors. I will also be doing a stage build with a fixed screen. I also nixed the soffit build, I originally wanted a soffit with a night sky mural, but I think I just like the idea of a flat black ceiling with recessed lights. The only holdup right now is the soundproofing and certainly the acoustics of the room. I care more about audio than video, so acoustics will be important to me. I am a novice at all this and will be a learning experience for me. I have to figure what I want done and make sure it is done right, which I have no doubts about. Things will fall in place and I am sure I will need some guidance here. I have been on this computer for days searching and reading. I am really getting burnout and I need a break.

I believe this project will be starting shortly, but I don't know exactly when, but I hope soon as I have been waiting along time for this.

The audio will be a 7.2 with 2X JTR Noesis 212HT's 4X JTR Single 8's 1 JTR Noesis 228HT center 2X PSA Triax subs. A Denon 4520ci will be the driver with an oppo 103 BD, a Panamax 5400 and a Emotiva XPA-3. Video will be a Panasonic PT-AE8000U and the screen to be determined later.

The room pictured below is my dream room. It will look almost identical to this with some other changes. Also if this is an AVS members theater, please chime in and share any info please.


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post #2 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Equipment

Audio
Denon 4520
Oppo 103
Inuke 6000DSP X 2
Inuke 3000DSP
Emotiva XPA3
Panamax 5400

Speakers

L,R- JTR 215
C -JTR 228
S&R JTR Single Slanted 8's
Subs- DIY Ported 18" SI HST's
subs -PSA Triax X 2

Video
Panasonic PT AE8000U

Chairs
Lane 103

Cables
Monoprice inwall 12AWG
Monprice Redmere 30' HDMI
Monoprice Cat6

Paint
Black-Behr Disney Mous Ears
Grey- Benjamin More Sweatshirt Grey
Sheetrock Quietrock 1/2"

HVAC
Minisplit
Samsung Model # AR09HSFSHWKN
This model is so new I cannot find any info on it
It does not look like the pictures inside and out
the outside units has been updated and looks allot
nicer than the previous units.

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post #3 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 04:20 PM
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Looks like it will be a fun project, and you've certainly got a good equipment list. Can you post plans? Do you plan to get rid of the windows when you re-side? Use plugs? Keep them in place and control light with shades/curtains?

One concern I had right away was trying to combine soundproofing with pocket doors. There won't be any insulation in the wall where it forms the cavity for the pocket doors. If you go with double drywall and green glue, you'll still get mass and damping, so it might be okay. But I think it might be pretty difficult to seal around the doors when they are closed, so my guess is that they'll be your weak spot in soundproofing.


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post #4 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 04:57 PM
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Good to see you getting started on the room Reef! That's a nice model to follow, nice and classy looking...I do have to say though, I'm wondering what the heck happened with your Danley's?!?!?! You loved them so much and are getting rid of them already. eek.gif


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post #5 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like it will be a fun project, and you've certainly got a good equipment list. Can you post plans? Do you plan to get rid of the windows when you re-side? Use plugs? Keep them in place and control light with shades/curtains?

One concern I had right away was trying to combine soundproofing with pocket doors. There won't be any insulation in the wall where it forms the cavity for the pocket doors. If you go with double drywall and green glue, you'll still get mass and damping, so it might be okay. But I think it might be pretty difficult to seal around the doors when they are closed, so my guess is that they'll be your weak spot in soundproofing.
All 9 windows are going to be removed. I know I am not going to get perfection so I mean if I loose a little on the door so be it. The builder has a plan for the door, so I will just let him deal with that. We spent quite a bit of time on the entry door and in the end the pocket door just seemed to make sense. We are ordering them in heavy Oak, so hopefully they will be pretty solid.

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Good to see you getting started on the room Reef! That's a nice model to follow, nice and classy looking...I do have to say though, I'm wondering what the heck happened with your Danley's?!?!?! You loved them so much and are getting rid of them already. eek.gif
Chopper, I hate to get rid of them, but I am out of work for a few months so I could use some cash for the project and who knows maybe a new pre/pro biggrin.gif Luckily I am insured so I will be fine. However the Danleys are in the way and I have so much going on I just don't have time to decided on speakers rights now. I mean if they are still around when the room is done, (I hope they are) I will see how they do in the room. IMO they are one of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard and I would love to hear them is a well treated room of my own. I heard through the grapevine you got some fifty's?? How they treating you??

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post #6 of 90 Old 03-18-2014, 11:39 PM
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Chopper, I hate to get rid of them, but I am out of work for a few months so I could use some cash for the project and who knows maybe a new pre/pro biggrin.gif Luckily I am insured so I will be fine. However the Danleys are in the way and I have so much going on I just don't have time to decided on speakers rights now. I mean if they are still around when the room is done, (I hope they are) I will see how they do in the room. IMO they are one of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard and I would love to hear them is a well treated room of my own. I heard through the grapevine you got some fifty's?? How they treating you??

Makes sense...I was just so surprised based on your reactions at the GTG. I thought I'd see your Noesis for sale first. I have the fifty's coming still...decided to get a new set from a local pro guy, only problem is he has all these big projects and doesn't seem really motivated to get them to me. Not such a big deal as he didn't take a deposit and I don't have the space ready either. I think I'll end up keeping the seosr too, like you with the JTRs. I have ditched the crowns dsp and have gone full active on the coax, so it should get me where I want to be. I'll be watching to see your room take shape man, like the concept a lot


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post #7 of 90 Old 03-19-2014, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Makes sense...I was just so surprised based on your reactions at the GTG. I thought I'd see your Noesis for sale first. I have the fifty's coming still...decided to get a new set from a local pro guy, only problem is he has all these big projects and doesn't seem really motivated to get them to me. Not such a big deal as he didn't take a deposit and I don't have the space ready either. I think I'll end up keeping the seosr too, like you with the JTRs. I have ditched the crowns dsp and have gone full active on the coax, so it should get me where I want to be. I'll be watching to see your room take shape man, like the concept a lot
Thanks, I really like the look of this room, simple and I can get it done quick. I wanted an AT screen, but for now I opted to just build the stage and leave the door open down the road. This way I will get a few more feet to the screen from the seat which is not allot to begin with, I will get 12 feet vs maybe 9' with an AT screen. One thing Is I don't want to get to crazy because I don't think we are going to be staying in this house that much longer and the builder said and I disagree that a theater does not add value to a home, certainly a good tool for selling though. As for the Danley's, if they don't sell, I will just keep em and use them in my other room, I have had some interest, but nothing serious yet. Brandon wants me to keep them until the room is done and I think he is right. I know I will kick myself someday if I let em go.

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post #8 of 90 Old 03-19-2014, 09:04 AM
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I'm not sure that actually adds value but it can be used as a great negotiation tool. when we sold our house people loved it or hated it since the space is very specific and would have to be redone to use it for anything else. we use it as a way to keep the price point the house we wanted it and rolling to include some of the equipment in order to make the sale.
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post #9 of 90 Old 03-19-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure that actually adds value but it can be used as a great negotiation tool. when we sold our house people loved it or hated it since the space is very specific and would have to be redone to use it for anything else. we use it as a way to keep the price point the house we wanted it and rolling to include some of the equipment in order to make the sale.
That is my feeling to, a great tool for selling. I mean you get a young guy and he sees a decked out theater and BAM sold!! biggrin.gif Might even be able to unload the equipment and upgrade biggrin.gif

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post #10 of 90 Old 03-20-2014, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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My builder called me with another option of sound proofing. He said his drywall vendor advised him to do a layer of sound board, then a channel, then 5/8" drywall. ??is this possible ?

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post #11 of 90 Old 03-22-2014, 03:55 PM
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Sounds to me like they want to sell the products they stock. It also sounds like you won't have as much mass, no dampening and worst case could actually create a triple leaf effect. I would avoid that method.

Just another FYI, sound board is worthless for low frequency sound control.

The original method isn't rocket science. you put a layer of drywall up, you squirt some Green Glue on the second layer and put it up. I have used guys standing on the corner at 7-11 (guest workers) to do it. I assume you were planning clips and channel.


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post #12 of 90 Old 03-25-2014, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds to me like they want to sell the products they stock. It also sounds like you won't have as much mass, no dampening and worst case could actually create a triple leaf effect. I would avoid that method.

Just another FYI, sound board is worthless for low frequency sound control.

The original method isn't rocket science. you put a layer of drywall up, you squirt some Green Glue on the second layer and put it up. I have used guys standing on the corner at 7-11 (guest workers) to do it. I assume you were planning clips and channel.
Thanks Jeff for the feedback.

Well my builder said he would have numbers to me by Sunday or Monday and it is Tuesday and nothing. Unless by some miracle he calls tonight which I doubt, but other than that I am dropping him.

So once again I have another guy that is not going to do the job. I am not going to use the word unbelievable, because its not anymore. This makes about 5 guys that I have tried to hire since September and like the first guy, this guy wasted 3 months of my time. I actually dumped a builder for the current builder I have and I am going back to talk to him today and see if he is still interested. If not I will be doing this myself and starting this weekend. The thing that actually sucks is that if I would have kept the other guy, this might be done by now. I had to listen to my wife.

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post #13 of 90 Old 03-26-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Well back to square one again. I have decided not to take the bid from the guy I wanted to do my build. The updated bid was 7K over the previous bid he gave me and I even deleted stuff I originally wanted done. I mean an example is he now wants almost $3K to paint a 14X16 room, really? He also bid it that he is also doing the soundproofing wrong. So I am done. I am just amazed that so many people on here have contractors showing up, doing the work and doing it right.

I talked with my wife last night and I just thought I would scrap the project and forget about it but I have decided maybe I can do this project myself. I have a friend I am going to try and get to help me. I hope he can do it as he is pretty busy. I will sub out the work I cannot do. I am going to have dumpster delivered this week and I am going to begin to gut the room and get ready for construction. I am even contemplating leaving the windows in now and just making a very nice TV room with a giant comfy couch and a drop down motorized screen with projector. I know right now I am so aggravated, I am going to just relax today and just forget about all this and do some more research tomorrow.

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post #14 of 90 Old 03-26-2014, 12:35 PM
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YOU CAN DO IT

Here is a theater built by a novice:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/767522/36-month-ht-construction-by-a-first-timer-done/0_40


Turn back the clock 10+ years ago and I started to finish my basement. I had never framed a wall, soundproofed a room, hung drywall on a ceiling, wired electrical circuits, soldered copper pipe, dug a trench in a concrete floor, hung doors, installed molding, built a stage or riser, installed a projector, hung acoustical treatments and covered them with fabric.

Now I can do all those with ease. There is a Youtube video and DIY books on just about every task you will undertake in building a theater. Often my initial pace was work a half a day then do research the rest of the day figuring out how to do something.

Take your time, have a plan and research each step. Don't be afraid of doing something over.
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post #15 of 90 Old 03-26-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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YOU CAN DO IT

Here is a theater built by a novice:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/767522/36-month-ht-construction-by-a-first-timer-done/0_40


Turn back the clock 10+ years ago and I started to finish my basement. I had never framed a wall, soundproofed a room, hung drywall on a ceiling, wired electrical circuits, soldered copper pipe, dug a trench in a concrete floor, hung doors, installed molding, built a stage or riser, installed a projector, hung acoustical treatments and covered them with fabric.

Now I can do all those with ease. There is a Youtube video and DIY books on just about every task you will undertake in building a theater. Often my initial pace was work a half a day then do research the rest of the day figuring out how to do something.

Take your time, have a plan and research each step. Don't be afraid of doing something over.
Thanks, I know I can. I am just not going to pay someone $2700 to paint a room or $5K for a couple of high hats or wall switches. My only hurdle is to remove 9 windows and reframe. I am also not going to pay someone $6K for soundproofing drywall that is not the way I want it done. Like I said I am going to get a dumpster here this weekend and start the demolition and go from there.

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post #16 of 90 Old 04-10-2014, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok,

So I got around to doing a little bit of demolition. I have been in and out all day, but managed to get the ceiling stripped and busted out the side wall to see what was behind door #1. This was a sun porch converted into a room. I am crossed what to do now. As said above I am not a builder, but it would make sense to fur the wall out and reframe the whole room over the windows, but I have an entry door to the out side, I don't know how I would do that, unless I could do this around the door. However does anyone think that I could just leave the windows and somehow go over them with sheetrock and plywood? I thought about having them tinted or smoked out by a friend that does car windows, that would hide the obvious. My other option is to remove the windows and reframe the walls? Seems to be the best way to do it, but then I would have to reside the house and the house will look dull with out the windows.

I also found that some of the plywood in the ceiling is wet and there was some dripping going on. I have to find the source of this as we just had a new room put on 7 years ago, so I don't know why I am seeing wet plywood in spots, but mostly in the middle. I am lost, anybody have any help here please fire away…


Here are some pics from today.












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post #17 of 90 Old 04-10-2014, 05:01 PM
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I'm not happy seeing 2x4 ceiling joists they look to be about 16 inches on center.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp?species=Spruce-Pine-Fir&size=2x4&grade=No.+1&member=Ceiling+Joists&deflectionlimit=L%2F360&spacing=16&wet=No&incised=No&liveload=20&snowload=-1&deadload=10&submit=Calculate+Maximum+Horizontal+Span#answer

you will need to beef up that structure unless your room is less than 7 1/2 ft wide. It they are 2x6s you are good to 11'9".


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post #18 of 90 Old 04-10-2014, 05:06 PM
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that window framing is something else, maybe the builder decided to install smaller windows mid project.

Inspect the shingles and look for small holes, I had the exact problem at my house over the garage and after trying to seal the holes ended up having it re-roofed. I suspect was caused by careless painters who dug their ladders into roof to paint the second story.


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post #19 of 90 Old 04-10-2014, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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that window framing is something else, maybe the builder decided to install smaller windows mid project.

.
LOL, I did not expect to see that framing. The roofer that did the roof is great. I have had a couple of questions and he comes right out. I will get that handled licitly split.

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post #20 of 90 Old 04-11-2014, 05:55 AM
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Completely jumping in after months of being away. I agree strongly with BIG on this. I couldn't find Home Depot with two hands but eventually created the Majestic with help from (local) friends and the people on this forum.


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post #21 of 90 Old 04-11-2014, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Completely jumping in after months of being away. I agree strongly with BIG on this. I couldn't find Home Depot with two hands but eventually created the Majestic with help from (local) friends and the people on this forum.
One thing is for sure, I am not going to get any help, people here are in to themselves, they don't even wave or say hello, it is very sad. I have been trying to pay someone since September, but I cannot find anyone or the guys I do find want to do it their way or overbid. From what I understand it gets very slow here in the summer with work, so I might have some luck finding help in the next couple of months.

I have the roofer coming out on Monday or Tuesday. I thought it would be quicker, but I apparently not this time, but that is fine, no hurry yet.

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post #22 of 90 Old 04-12-2014, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Well got allot done yesterday. 3 walls stripped clean. I will get to wiring speakers and wiring the PJ this week and then start working on the framing.





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post #23 of 90 Old 04-13-2014, 07:54 AM
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I actually kinda liked the demo part - very cathartic!


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post #24 of 90 Old 04-13-2014, 08:38 AM
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If those windows want to tip in and out, you kind of wonder how tightly they were sealed when first installed, Like foaming around them with the low pressure foam designed for windows.

What did you finally decide about the windows?


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post #25 of 90 Old 04-13-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually kinda liked the demo part - very cathartic!
It was kinda fun and scary at the same time. After I started ripping I just said no going back now biggrin.gif

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If those windows want to tip in and out, you kind of wonder how tightly they were sealed when first installed, Like foaming around them with the low pressure foam designed for windows.

What did you finally decide about the windows?
They are not tipping, they are in there snug. I just braced them lightly incase of a strong wind or the unthinkable. Living in-between the bay and ocean, it can whip up sometimes. I have now decided to remove the windows and reframe the walls. Makes the most sense. I am worried about the windows rattling considering that I will be bass heavy.

Also Jeff, AVS member (Gooddoc) was over a bit ago and we were checking out the room and he had a thought of just packing the celling with Roxul and pulling a cloth over the ceiling. Now if I was to do that, would that negate soundproofing the interior walls? I liked the idea and would certainly eliminate any reflections with a sheetrock celling. What do you think ?

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post #26 of 90 Old 04-17-2014, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Well ran into a little something today. Trying to figure out my wiring, I finally took notice to the header around the border of the ceiling. I just relized that I am not going to be able to pull wires, unless I can get them through the header. I have to get the HDMI through to get to the ceiling, unless I can get them behind the hat channel to the ceiling?

One question is, considering I have a slab floor, I cannot go under so I guess I can run cables under the carpet right? Anyone run cables under the carpet?





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post #27 of 90 Old 04-17-2014, 03:40 PM
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clips and channel does create an inch+ of a gap,


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post #28 of 90 Old 05-12-2014, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Things have been moving a little slow here due to the roof needing repair and waiting on the roofer since it is a warranty issue.

In the mean time I have been reading and planing and doing some thinking. I have been pondering keeping 3 windows in the room. I have hated the thought of removing all the windows in the room for numerous reasons. A couple of reasons are resale, fresh air and I hate losing vision into my backyard, especially with a pool. So my next question is, does anybody know of curtains that actually blackout the room? Is there such thing as a HT window curtain that black out the room? Could they also double as room treatments?

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post #29 of 90 Old 05-13-2014, 04:43 AM
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You should be able to build a removable window plug that is sound treated (and of course cuts out all the light). Or you could have a couple of layers if black out curtains...

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post #30 of 90 Old 05-13-2014, 06:41 AM
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Take a look at post number 21 in my thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527020/argyle-miniplex-dedicated-theater-build-log#post_24660419 I picked up some IKEA blackout roller blinds and took them to Home Depot where they color matched the wall paint.  I still intend to build a panel to cover the gap between the two blinds and paint it to match the walls / blinds as well.  This seems to keep out the majority of the light (just the cracks around the edges but they are covered all around by panels).

 

The problem you may run into with an idea like this is location of your sound absorbing panels.

 

 



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