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post #1 of 58 Old 03-29-2014, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,

 

I am about to finish my basement and part of it will be a dedicated home theater area.  This will be 95%+ for tv/movie watching.   Of that, I would guess 80%+ will be movies... with the rest random tv & sports viewing. 

 

Questions I have:

 

- bass trap options, I see lot of 'front corners' and I have electric panel issues in the front corner, are 'rear corner' traps enough, do I need a creative solution to front corner (like base of wall with traps, an opening access panel door, and traps above?)

 

CURRENT PLANS...

 

HVAC Plan

- Current Plan is to have a Mini-Split Supply for Heat & Air

- will have a poor mans Dead Vent to supply fresh air (fan in a 6" flex duct from under stairs outside room, into front portion of room)

- tapping into main house Air Return from theater side - and maybe AVS close (the shared wall, theater & AVS closet at rear of room has a Return duct I could easily tap into, debating one side vs both)

- using a thermostat switched fan/flex vent pipe from equipment room

 


Below is the basic lay-out.  

- The theater room is ~ 22'6" feet x ~ 17'6" wide with current sound treatment plans,

- the main ceiling height is 8'8",  the 'green bar' is a Steel I-beam running the length of the theater.  The bottom of this is ~ 8' from the floor. 

- The yellow circle is a support post,~ 3 feet from the side wall. 

- Between the I-beam & the wall are the main HVAC air return ducts for the 1st floor. 

- The two Red boxes are my electric service panels (also have a small additional sub-panel elsewhere), these will be flush with the wall.. 

- my AVS equipment will be in the ~ 4' wide x 10'8" room along the one side 

 

The black exterior is the concrete foundation, and the 'blue' walls are the framed 2x4 walls.   The wall on the bottom with the equipment rack is a 2x6 staggered stud wall. 

 

 - Entrance wall into theater is parallel 2x4 walls, using communicating door assembly.  The door on the 'rest of basement side' of theater is 1/2" laminated glass - my very rough understanding is the laminated glass process provides some 'dampening' type effects on sound transfer, the 'theater side' door is a flat, solid 1 3/4" Mahogany door which I'll use Zero international jambs/bottom. 

 - The light'ish colored boxes along wall are columns which will be  ~ 3-4" deep and just with Sconce lights - although, pre-wiring for possible future speaker enancements

 - the turquiose colored boxes along the walls are columns with 'built in' Speakers for Surround & Rear (front row is planned main row)

 - The light gray area is all my planned 'main level' Riser, ~ 7" tall, allowing for a step up outside the theater, and then where there is soffit, a bit more head room

- Orange under the 2nd row is a higher level Riser, call it 11-12" high

 - the "Yellow" is a TBD, I may choose to carry the height of the last step into the basement onto a landing & becoming the same level as the first/light great Theater Riser.   Otherwise, they'll be a step down, and then a step back up to the riser. 

 

 

 

Immediately above this room is our breakfast room & Hearth Room with hardwood floors. 

 

Current 'sound reduction' plans:

 - Subfloor/ceiling: Green Glue + 5/8" Drywall + GG + 5/8" drywall attached to the OSB sub-floor above

 - Pink Fluffy Insulation

 - Ceiling:  IB-1 Clips clips & Hat Channel, ~5/8" Drywall +  GG, + 5/8" Drywall

 - Walls:  ~1/2" OSB + G.G. + 5/8" Drywall,attached to subfloor with IB-3 Clips

 - putty pads & acoustic sealant at various places

 - as mentioned, communicating door assembly, exterior door sills on 'outside of theater' door and Zero International seals to be on inside of theater door.

 

Tentative Seating Plan:

- 9 Palliser Lemans seats (still tbd)

- Row 1 |0V00V|, ~ 136" wide

- Row 2 |00|0|00| (or |0|000|0|) ~ 142" wide

- an ~ 18" deep bar & bar stools to make a '3rd' row of sorts

 

AV Equipment

Speakers:

- tbd (likely Klipsch KL-7800/KS-7800), planning on In-Wall speakers all around except the Subs, in large part to push screen as close to wall as possible

- Sub until looking on this forum, thought only 1, but will likely now get two...starting to consider a DIY option; otherwise likely 2, HSU-VTF15s

 

Screen:

- TBD, 2.35:1 Acoustically Transparent screen, size at least 130" wide, maybe as wide as 144"
 

Projector:

- also TBD... leaning towards JVC RS-4910, in large part for the CIH/ auto zoom functionality (and according to Mike at AVS Science, provides slightly better light output than JVC RS-57 and for my screen size a better option)

 

Other AV Equipment

- Major  TBD... I have a Denon AVR-1912, but likely will need something more substantial, amplifiers, scalers, Oppo DVD players

- kind of leaning towards a Denon AVR-4520, but not sure

- I have just started looking at the HTPC type options & media servers, etc., which all intrigue me - but looks like a steep learning curve

 

Sound Treatments

- until about a month ago when someone recommended looking at AVS science forum, I had no idea about this

 - Definitely will be doing 1" thick Fabric Frames of some type with Linacoustic RC up to ear height & poly-cotton above ear height

 - screen wall will be layer of Linacoustic RC/ 3 mil plastic/ layer of Linacoustic RC

- Riser may have 'holes' cut along outside edges to hopefully act as bass trap

- Rear wall, 1" linacoustic RC type treatment

 

Lighting -

- will have 4 sconces on each side of room & 2 in rear

-  3 4" Halo Surface Mount LED "can" lights for the screen,

-  3 6" Halo Surface Mount LED "Can" lights for above row 1, above row 2, and between bar/rear of room

- Likely 6 Zone Grafik Eye QS

   - Zone 1, Screen Lights & front 2 Sconces

   - Zone 2, Row 1 can lights

   - Zone 3, Row 2 Can Lights

   - Zone 4, Bar/Rear Can lights & Sconces (wired to permit move of sconces to 'zone 5' sconces)

   - Zone 5, Rear 4 Sconces

   - Zone 6, 2nd Row of Sconces

 

Overall, I am amazed by a lot of the theater's in this forum and the knowledge & insights of many of you.   I would appreciate any thoughts you have to make a plan a bit better :-)

 

Thanks,

Kevin


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #2 of 58 Old 03-29-2014, 03:35 PM
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14 bodies at rest will produce a significant heat load that needs to be dealt with. You will also want to address air changes.

Do you really need all those seats? Is this a real world need or more of a want?

The Grafic Eye will need to be wired up front, with lights zoned. The zones could be all tied together in the short term.

Why not just mount the screen with cleats?
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post #3 of 58 Old 03-29-2014, 04:38 PM
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how far into the room is the electrical panel? your screen won't be more than 12 ft wide so that leaves 33 inches on each side.

Your soundprooging plans will turn this room into an airtight well insulated space, if you don't plan for cooling, even in winter, your room will put your guests to sleep due to the warm temperature and lack of oxygen.


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post #4 of 58 Old 03-29-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

 - HVAC:  Do I 'need' supply/returns? 

Yes, absolutely.
Quote:
- Sequencing - what can be done 'later' vs planned during the framing/ initial construction.   Can things like Insteon, Graffic Eye, Cinemar, Control4, additional amps, etc. be added 'later' or do I need to 'pre-wire' now for that?  Can a front stage be added 'later' or does that need to be planned for during framing/ before drywall/sound reduction treatments?

As Tedd already noted, electrical needs to be planned out in advance. GrafikEye is a great solution, but needs all the loads to be brought to a single 4-gang location. Plan for several separate lighting "zones" as you wire so that you *can* control them independently. You can always combine them on a single switch - but you can't separate them after the fact...
Quote:
How do I determine location of Projector mount (very likely ceiling mounted)... do I need to know projector & screen now to determine this?

No, but you should get an idea based on your budget / choice of projector(s). But generally, a throw range of say 12-16' is a good start. Screen size will be based on your seating distances and some amount of personal preference, too. Pick that last if you're not sure (you can test the projector in the room and make adjustments before buying a real screen).
Quote:
The black exterior is the concrete foundation, and the 'blue' walls are the framed 2x4 walls.   I'll have a  double wall on the entrance wall and be using communicating door assembly. 

What about including the hallway outside as part of the entry - make it an "airlock" instead of the communicating doors...
Quote:
The first door will be 1 3/4" with 1/2" laminated glass

Why would you use a door with glass when it will face a solid door? Glass is the worst door material for sound transfer... Plenty of decorative treatments you can do to a solid door to make it look nicer.
Quote:
Immediately above this room is our breakfast room & Hearth Room with hardwood floors. 

Given that I'm glad you're taking aggressive steps to control sound transmission from those floors!
Quote:
Tentative Seating Plan:
- as illustrated, would like two rows of reclining seats' likely 4 unless I can squeeze 5 in (maybe straight vs curved)
- an ~ 18" deep bar & bar stools to make a '3rd' row of sorts

Five seats won't fit assuming theater recliners. And do you really expect >12 folks for a true theater experience? Super bowl parties are always "overflow" conditions, for example - but it's rare that I get 12 folks (adults) to show for a movie and fill up my theater...
Quote:
Screen:
- TBD, leanings towards 2.35:1 Accoustically Transparent screen, not sure how large I can get

Your room is very similar to mine - I have a 136" 2.35 screen - I wouldn't go any bigger given the front row distance.
Quote:
Sound Treatments
- until about a month ago when someone recommended looking at AVS science forum, I had no idea about this - so, still very much in the undecided.  I have reviewed lot of information through-out the forum on this, so, things like screen wall treatment, fabric panels on side walls, etc will be done - but part of the 'sequencing question'... i.e., how much of this can I do 'later' after the main theater is complete

Plan now. Figure out how you want to apply acoustic treatments. That will affect the "look" and style of the room significantly, and planning for electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, door placement, etc. can all affect that plan. You don't have to finalize the exact treatments (and you shouldn't) beforehand, but you should have a direction in mind. And yes, you will want them immediately.
Quote:
Lighting -
 - I know this is one I need to nail down a bit as it is 'pre-drywall'... leaning towards wall sconces, and maybe 3 4" can lights for the screen, maybe 3-4 above main rows, maybe a 'track light'/ single penetration above bar area

I have six lighting zones, and could have used a 7th for a very similar room size/layout. More light sources at very low light levels is better for a theater so you can control the light and minimize how much hits the screen during the movie.

Jeff


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post #5 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 06:06 AM
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Gg+ drywall attached to osb subfloor made wonderful improvements to the tapping of shoes heard from above (especially my wife's high heels) then after the double r13, and double sheetrock with gg, I can't hear anything short of someone purposely stomping.
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post #6 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

how far into the room is the electrical panel? your screen won't be more than 12 ft wide so that leaves 33 inches on each side.

Your soundprooging plans will turn this room into an airtight well insulated space, if you don't plan for cooling, even in winter, your room will put your guests to sleep due to the warm temperature and lack of oxygen.


Here is a picture of the electric boxes,

 - the one on the right... right side is 10" from current (pre framed) wall, left side is 25" from current wall.  my challenge with this one is a front corner bass trap

 - the box on the left, the right side is ~48" from current wall and the left side is ~ 64" from the current wall, the challenge with this one is the screen.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Sounds like nearly universal votes for HVAC plans, so, I"ll  research a bit more and definitely include plans for that.

 

Thanks,


Kevin


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #7 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

14 bodies at rest will produce a significant heat load that needs to be dealt with. You will also want to address air changes.

Do you really need all those seats? Is this a real world need or more of a want?

The Grafic Eye will need to be wired up front, with lights zoned. The zones could be all tied together in the short term.

Why not just mount the screen with cleats?

 

Based on responses, definitely will be doing some HVAC work now. 

 

All those seats are definitely the 'exception' planning, we have a family of 4 so, most of the time it will be us and maybe a few of the kids friends, but a few times a year I am sure it iwll be more.

 

I am not sure what you mean by mounting the screen with cleats?

 

I appreciate your time & thoughts!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #8 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post

Gg+ drywall attached to osb subfloor made wonderful improvements to the tapping of shoes heard from above (especially my wife's high heels) then after the double r13, and double sheetrock with gg, I can't hear anything short of someone purposely stomping.

 

 

Good to hear, thanks for the real world feedback.  I do plan to have insulation as well, despite omitting that in my original post! 


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #9 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, thanks for the very in depth reply... this one will take a bit of time to read through, and I'll look through your Build post as well.  I had previously looked at some of yours already, but will spend a bit more time given similarity of dimensions and what not.  10' ceilings would have been nice!!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #10 of 58 Old 03-30-2014, 08:33 AM
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My HVAC guy gave me 2 returns and 2 vents in the room. he said simply turning the hvac to "fan" when i enter the room will keep it balanced well.
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post #11 of 58 Old 03-31-2014, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

As Tedd already noted, electrical needs to be planned out in advance. GrafikEye is a great solution, but needs all the loads to be brought to a single 4-gang location. Plan for several separate lighting "zones" as you wire so that you *can* control them independently. You can always combine them on a single switch - but you can't separate them after the fact...
I have six lighting zones, and could have used a 7th for a very similar room size/layout. More light sources at very low light levels is better for a theater so you can control the light and minimize how much hits the screen during the movie.
 

 

When you reference combining into a single 4-gang box, can that be the same 4 gang box as I would have to have four separate switches?   Meaning, incoming power into a 4 gang box, split to 4 switches, and power out to the lights? 

 

Or is it, I have my normal wiring and I have to 'add' an additional 4-gang box?  I looked briefly on the Grafik Eye web-site and the illustrations weren't particularly intuitive to me. 

 

I will likely have maybe more than 4, but trying to understand if they are on int he same or separate boxes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

No, but you should get an idea based on your budget / choice of projector(s). But generally, a throw range of say 12-16' is a good start. Screen size will be based on your seating distances and some amount of personal preference, too. Pick that last if you're not sure (you can test the projector in the room and make adjustments before buying a real screen).
 
Your room is very similar to mine - I have a 136" 2.35 screen - I wouldn't go any bigger given the front row distance.
 

 

Is your 136", 136" wide or Diagonal?   I assume wide based on your post about fitting an 11 1/2" wide screen into your area, but wanted to double check.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

What about including the hallway outside as part of the entry - make it an "airlock" instead of the communicating doors...

Why would you use a door with glass when it will face a solid door? Glass is the worst door material for sound transfer... Plenty of decorative treatments you can do to a solid door to make it look nicer.

 

I thought about an 'airlock'/ entry way hallway,but it didn't fit very well/ my wife didn't like the design that would require.   I wanted to use a bit of an off-set space, building the 'angled wall' into the Theater room as an 'entrance' and then the same flat back wall, but my wife wasn't interested in that.

 

In terms of the Glass door, there are two factors... 1) it is the appearance from the rest of the basement looking 'into' where the Theater is.   2) one I haven't been able to find real good data on, but the fact that Laminated Glass has an inter-sheet of some Poly-Vinyl Butyral which provides a "Dampening" benefit.   So, in my mind, which has no real knowledge on the area... I think of  it as a "do I want two 1/2" drywall sheets with Green Glue or 2, 5/8" sheets of Drywall with no Green Glue"?   The second had greater mass (as would a 1 3/4" sold wood door vs glass), but the one with Green Glue/ Laminated Glass has a Dampening effect.    My other belief is that different substances are better at different frequencies, so, by altering substances, I might cover more frequencies.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Plan now. Figure out how you want to apply acoustic treatments. That will affect the "look" and style of the room significantly, and planning for electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, door placement, etc. can all affect that plan. You don't have to finalize the exact treatments (and you shouldn't) beforehand, but you should have a direction in mind. And yes, you will want them immediately.

Jeff

 

Good Guidance... the 'look' is a major question for me... I like some of the almost 'all fabric panel' type theater designs (Hanna Hou, Bacon Race, Spaceman theater), but my wife would love some of the woodwork, like yours, the Cinemar/ Rawlinsway theaters.  I think they look nice, but my perception from my DIY skill set, is maybe it is 'easier' to do the Fabric Panels than the more intricate woodwork.    I would likely go the FabricMate 'track' route to avoid needing to do build my own frames (although, certainly TBD).

 

I appreciate your time to respond & your help/guidance!!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #12 of 58 Old 03-31-2014, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

When you reference combining into a single 4-gang box, can that be the same 4 gang box as I would have to have four separate switches?   Meaning, incoming power into a 4 gang box, split to 4 switches, and power out to the lights? 

Correct. One large, 4-gang box that would normally hold four dimmers/switches. Because the GrafikEye unit is large, you'll want the deepest box you can get so you've got enough room to work with all those wires. Since my location backs to an attic space, I actually pig-tailed several connections in another junction box in the attic and brought the minimum needed into the "real" box... It's a lot of romex to work with, especially if you don't man-handle that stuff on a daily basis.
Quote:
I will likely have maybe more than 4, but trying to understand if they are on int he same or separate boxes.

There are different GrafikEye units. I have the six circuit (i.e. load/dimmer) QS model.
Quote:
Is your 136", 136" wide or Diagonal?   I assume wide based on your post about fitting an 11 1/2" wide screen into your area, but wanted to double check.

No, 136" diagonal measured at 1:2.35. In 16x9 it's a 108" screen. Full width is 124".
Quote:
Good Guidance... the 'look' is a major question for me... I like some of the almost 'all fabric panel' type theater designs (Hanna Hou, Bacon Race, Spaceman theater), but my wife would love some of the woodwork, like yours, the Cinemar/ Rawlinsway theaters.  I think they look nice, but my perception from my DIY skill set, is maybe it is 'easier' to do the Fabric Panels than the more intricate woodwork.    I would likely go the FabricMate 'track' route to avoid needing to do build my own frames (although, certainly TBD).

I originally planned on a FabricMate / track setup and full fabric panels, too. But I changed my mind as I went through the process... DIY-wise I was very concerned with getting the fabric track system to work and not look like crap when I got done, and the stuff isn't cheap, either. Now, since then Spaceman and others have well-documented how to do these, so starting over I'd certainly consider it again. But I went the panel route and ordered them instead of making them. That was more money than a DIY solution, certainly - but I had them up in an afternoon - so there's that, too! biggrin.gif


Jeff


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Do an AVS search on Dennis Erskine two box Grafic eye method. The Grafic Eye with six zones will exceed electrical code
infill rules, and the lighting controller itself will fill most of a 4 gang box. I would also recommend a plastic four gang
electrical box be used to avoid a short circuit and fried controller.

The other method is to use a single six gang box with a four gang mud plate.
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post #14 of 58 Old 04-01-2014, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Do an AVS search on Dennis Erskine two box Grafic eye method. The Grafic Eye with six zones will exceed electrical code
infill rules, and the lighting controller itself will fill most of a 4 gang box. I would also recommend a plastic four gang
electrical box be used to avoid a short circuit and fried controller.

The other method is to use a single six gang box with a four gang mud plate.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction... I looked at the Grafic eye web-site, should have figured I would be better off looking here!!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #15 of 58 Old 04-01-2014, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
I originally planned on a FabricMate / track setup and full fabric panels, too. But I changed my mind as I went through the process... DIY-wise I was very concerned with getting the fabric track system to work and not look like crap when I got done, and the stuff isn't cheap, either. Now, since then Spaceman and others have well-documented how to do these, so starting over I'd certainly consider it again. But I went the panel route and ordered them instead of making them. That was more money than a DIY solution, certainly - but I had them up in an afternoon - so there's that, too! biggrin.gif


Jeff

 

Where did you purchase the panels?  I have seen several places on-line, but haven't spent enough time finding the 'best' place.   The final piece of your post "but I had them up in an afternoon..." could be priceless as my wife already isn't a fan of the time involved in this process!!  

 

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Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Correct. One large, 4-gang box that would normally hold four dimmers/switches. Because the GrafikEye unit is large, you'll want the deepest box you can get so you've got enough room to work with all those wires. Since my location backs to an attic space, I actually pig-tailed several connections in another junction box in the attic and brought the minimum needed into the "real" box... It's a lot of romex to work with, especially if you don't man-handle that stuff on a daily basis.
There are different GrafikEye units. I have the six circuit (i.e. load/dimmer) QS model.
Jeff

 

You referenced doing 'more' than 6 circuits & in your 'what would you do differently' you reference moving one off the GrafikEye for the lights outside the theater room.   As I think about my tentative plans for lighting I am thinking:

1) wall sconces

2) screen can lights

3) row 1 can lights

4) row 2 can lights

5) bar row lights

6) tbd if I do a soffit, but Rope lights if I do..

7) riser lights?  

 

Are the lights outside your theater, in that 'entry hall-way' from the rest of the house into your theater?   I don't think I'll really have type of entrance/ airlock so, wasn't initially thinking of integrating 'outside' the room lighting, but it could make a bit of a statement.  Although, I do love the TV Information Screen on the Cinemar theater, so, maybe lighting and a TV Info screen could be an interesting combination.


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #16 of 58 Old 04-01-2014, 08:44 AM
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Where did you purchase the panels?  I have seen several places on-line, but haven't spent enough time finding the 'best' place.   The final piece of your post "but I had them up in an afternoon..." could be priceless as my wife already isn't a fan of the time involved in this process!!  

I got mine from Acoustical Solutions, as I had talked to them at CEDIA and one of the suede colors they offered was what I was looking for. There are a couple other companies that show up in AVS threads more often (can't recall off the top of my head), and you should definitely compare products and pricing...
Quote:
You referenced doing 'more' than 6 circuits & in your 'what would you do differently' you reference moving one off the GrafikEye for the lights outside the theater room.   As I think about my tentative plans for lighting I am thinking:
1) wall sconces
2) screen can lights
3) row 1 can lights
4) row 2 can lights
5) bar row lights
6) tbd if I do a soffit, but Rope lights if I do..
7) riser lights?  

Are the lights outside your theater, in that 'entry hall-way' from the rest of the house into your theater?  

What I meant was to move the switch / dimmer out of the room since everything was remote controlled anyway - but the lighting is all in the room. Since then I have installed RadioRA2 throughout the house, so there's a whole scene set up for the game room and hallway adjacent to the theater.

Your circuit list is similar to mine and looks good. It's that 7th circuit (step lights) that I've currently got combined with one of the others, and am thinking about moving off the GE onto its own RadioRA dimmer.


Jeff


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We used Kinetics Noise Control for finished panels in 7channelfreak's build. Lots of fabric options.

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post #18 of 58 Old 04-01-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

We used Kinetics Noise Control for finished panels in 7channelfreak's build. Lots of fabric options.


Hi Spaceman,

 

Thanks for your thoughts... it looks like in your Theater build (which I love, by the way!) you made your own frames (and the whole speaker grill ball joints!), and it sounds like 7channelfreak purchased panels.    Knowing the effort involved in making the panel frames (excluding the ball joints), do you think you would go that route again?  Have you had any experience with the 'in between' option, i.e.., fabric tracks but still installing the fabric?

 

Thanks,

Kevin


Thanks!

Kevin


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Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post


Hi Spaceman,

Thanks for your thoughts... it looks like in your Theater build (which I love, by the way!) you made your own frames (and the whole speaker grill ball joints!), and it sounds like 7channelfreak purchased panels.    Knowing the effort involved in making the panel frames (excluding the ball joints), do you think you would go that route again?  Have you had any experience with the 'in between' option, i.e.., fabric tracks but still installing the fabric?

Thanks,


Kevin

I have not had an opportunity to work with fabric tracks. I looked into it for my build, but it was going to be too expensive. I think a lot of it depends on your budget, diy skills and the look you are after. My floor-to-ceiling panel arrangement is quite different than 7channelfreak's. His design only called for 9 panels (excluding the ones for the screen wall). I needed 100. If I was doing it again, my total panel count would be closer to 9 than 100. smile.gif

His purchased panels are 2" thick, while mine are only 1". If I was doing it again and had more room, I'd go with 2" thick panels.

7channelfreak's purchased panels are really nice, with hardened edges and quality fabric work. Some are absorption panels and some are diffusers. If you can find room for custom fabricated panels in your budget, it's definitely the way to go. I'm too cheap though, so if I was doing my own room again, I'd find a way to DIY them, similar to the Rawlinsway build.

Spaceman Theater Build


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post #20 of 58 Old 04-01-2014, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

... If I was doing it again, my total panel count would be closer to 9 than 100. smile.gif
 

 

Is the closer 9 vs 100 an 'effort' based decision or some other driver (i.e., acoustics, maintenance, etc.)?


Thanks!

Kevin


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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

Is the closer 9 vs 100 an 'effort' based decision or some other driver (i.e., acoustics, maintenance, etc.)?

Strictly effort. The only reason I wound up with so many panels was to pull off the look I wanted (curse you, GPowers and Brad Horstkotte) . Now that I'm older and wiser, I would choose fewer panels but make them larger.

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post #22 of 58 Old 04-03-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone purchased & used a Senco Dura-Spin Screw Gun to hang sound clips, drywall/ osb?   I am looking at the DS312-18V battery powered gun.   I figure between the sound clips, osb/drywall, backer board, backer boxes, maybe using screws on stage & risers, I have A LOT of screws I'll be using in the near future, and just wondered if anyone had experience with this?


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #23 of 58 Old 04-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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I think youll have trouble lining up the gun to put in the clips..
I tried my senco with the OSB to the channel.. My experience was that it stripped the screw in the channel, greatly decreasing the pullout force.
I ended up doing it the old fashion way..


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I just checked there is not enough clearance between the head on the senco (i have the DS2000) and the springs on the IB3's for the gun to hit the hole in the clips..

Also .. i think the basic problem with the senco was it was just too fast.. when screwing into the channel i found that if I slowed the speed down as the screw started drawing up tight It would sinch up better even sinking the head into the OSB.. vs Just going faster and the screw would strip out of the Channel.


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post #25 of 58 Old 04-03-2014, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

I just checked there is not enough clearance between the head on the senco (i have the DS2000) and the springs on the IB3's for the gun to hit the hole in the clips..

Also .. i think the basic problem with the senco was it was just too fast.. when screwing into the channel i found that if I slowed the speed down as the screw started drawing up tight It would sinch up better even sinking the head into the OSB.. vs Just going faster and the screw would strip out of the Channel.


Thanks for the guidance.   I'll definitely be re-assessing given the substantially more limited potential than I was hoping for!   I have already started looking a bit more and found a

QuikDrive PROPP150G2M25K which talks about 'precision point' and being used in metal framing, but haven't done much more yet... need to get back to the job now that lunch is gone!

 

I haven't read much of your thread, but did read the opening post and that is kind of what happened to me... I have started my basement, then found this forum, and feel a bit paralyzed with the amount of things to consider!   I subscribed to it, so, I can add it to my growing list of threads/ builds I need to read through!   I might proceed with the balance of the basement and keep the 'best for last'... but, that approach is a bit hard to swallow!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #26 of 58 Old 04-15-2014, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Electric Box mounting to minimize sound...

 

I am attaching a link to a post I made in the Sound Proofing master thread in case it helps me reach a different audience, as it isn't strictly soundproofing.http://www.avsforum.com/t/1509173/soundproofing-master-thread/330#post_24611352

 

I haven't tried linking before, so, not sure if this will work either!


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #27 of 58 Old 05-08-2014, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Below are images of how I am thinking of using the 'new'ish" Halo Surface mount lights to minimize sound transmission.  These are recessed lights that fit in a traditional look, they are 3,000 K color temperature, and have a CRI (Color Rendering Index) of 90 (or an option of 80).  These are either 4" or 6".

 

This first photo, is the 3 layers of MDF (or could be OSB/ cement board, not sure which is best), which will be behind the two layers of 5/8" drywall (i.e., between room envelope & ceiling above).  The two 'rear'/top layers have only a small hole in them for the electric wire penetration.   The 3rd board is 3/4" in my case because the electric box I have is 2" deep. 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

This next picture is a profile view of these three pieces pressed together, with Green Glue (some of my 6, 5 gallon buckets from the soundproofingcompany.com). 

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

This next picture shows them 'attached' to the drywall, I am imagining screwing them through the drywall before putting the drywall up, and as the drywall is being lifted into place, running the wire down through the small holes. 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Here are pictures of the box I plan to use, and a few pictures of the light itself:LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

These next two pictures are 'theoretically' the electric box installed in 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (of course, with GG).   I say 'theoretically', because, all I have on hand is a small 1/2" drywall piece, so, I used a 3/4" MDF piece... the combined width of these being 10/8ths = 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.  So, bear with the lack of correct materials, but the measurements are the same.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

 

This next picture shows what the light would look like as it were being wired & ready to be installed, this shows how 'shallow' the light is. 

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

 

The final picture is the light after installation, when mounted flush with the ceiling.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

This whole sequence obviously is more labor & material intensive than simply using Putty Pads.   Of course, the 'labor' isn't horrible, I cut my boards very roughly/quickly 8" x 8", unlike a backer box which needs to be somewhat 'square', these are pancaked together so precision isn't a huge deal.  A hole saw then used to cut out the hole to mount the box in.

 

I would also use acoustic caulk in the holes & around the box to provide that extra bit of sound sealing. 

 

Do you think this would be much better than Putty Pads, or yield a very similar result?  Obviously, not going to waste my time if there isn't much benefit.

 

Also, the 4" and 6" lights are the same mounting options.   I have seen many, many, of the theaters using 4", I have always wondered if that was simply a better aesthetic look choice, or if it was to 'minimize' the size of the penetration in the ceiling.    I am somewhat leaning towards 3, 4" lights at my screen, and then using 6" lights (ever so slightly brighter capability) over the seating areas.   These of course will all be dimmable/zoned (likely Grafik Eye QS).


Thanks!

Kevin


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post #28 of 58 Old 05-08-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a few photos as the room is starting to get framed in...

 

This is looking towards the front of the theater where the screen will be.   The 2x4 board under the chair is 12' long, giving me some idea of 'width' of chairs that could fit in.   I am begrudgingly leaving the support pole, that will likely be around the steps, and will put some sort of woodwork around it.     To the right is where the AV closet will be.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Here is a picture of the room which will hold the AV equipment.   It is currently ~ 4' wide x 13', but I am likely going to be using some of that space for a dead vent, so it will be smaller in the end.   The door itself isn't 'framed' as this will be on the riser, so, i need to figure how the height of my riser with OSB to determine the 'base' of the door height.  It will be a bit tight, I am thinking a 2x10" with 2, 3/4" OSB layers... getting to ~ 11 1/2".  A 6'8" door gets me to nearly 7' 8", and given this is where a soffit would be, the soffit would be at 8', so, not tons of room.   Once in the closet though, the ceiling height will be almost 9'.   

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

This next picture is looking at the rear of the theater, where the entry door is.   These are two, 2x4 walls running in parallel with each other - attached to the floor joists with IB-3 clips.  The window will be outside the theater room, and my plans is that the 'step' onto the riser will be outside the theater room as well, so, again - the door framing itself hasn't been done until I finalize riser height plans.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

Now, to start getting the cart a bit before the horse, I have ordered Fabric Samples, these are Knoll Textiles, Photon II colors... their web-site says they are acoustically transparent and fire rated... I have never done a 'blow test' through fabric before, so, not sure what to expect.   I can definitely feel air flow through the fabric, but frankly, I feel like I have to blow fairly hard to feel it.   I am having some different samples delivered as well.     My 'rationale' for trying to figure this out, is that it could influence where I do my columns.   This fabric is in 66" widths, so, doing 5' wide panels would be a nice width and I will have columns between panels.   However, another sample I am getting is something like 54" width, so, that would influence the lay-out some.

 

Of course, I was also hoping to get my wife at least partly engaged, but not luck with that yet.   

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

I am going to be trying to figure out my wiring plans shortly and hopefully get that started.   

 

In terms of sequencing, I am going to pull out my rigid air supply ducts to the 1st floor above this theater, then have the 2 layers of 5/8" drywall w/ green glue on both top sides, attached to the subfloor.   I'll put in some flex duct, and plan to make some 'registers' out of OSB for the 1st floor, hoping to help reduce sound transmission.   These ducts are almost 40 feet from the main line, so, I am just planning to put 25' of flex duct in and leave the rest of the rigid duct.  I think I then plan to have the insulation people come in, and THEN install the clips/ hat channel.   I thought maybe doing that first, but then thought I saw somewhere (of course couldn't find again) that  it is best to minimize the insulation laying directly on the channel.     So, I figured if the insulators did their work before the channel was installed, they would have to use their own methods to keep it in the ceiling, and then the hat channel wouldn't be rested on.  

 

I am working on getting  a few "Mr. Slim" quotes for a air conditioner/ heat pump for this room.   My dead vent will likely be to provide fresh air, and I may still link into the return vent which is easily accessible in the theater.   This is also fairly far from the main trunk line.

 

Amazing how slow it is... and being only a portion of the full basement we are finishing certainly doesn't help.   I won't be doing much of the same sound proofing other area's (although, will do similar in the bedroom directly below our master br), but do plan to use Clips & channels everywhere now.

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Thanks!

Kevin


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post #29 of 58 Old 05-13-2014, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Communicating doors opening same direction? Does anyone have thoughts or experience using two different width doors to open the same direction on a double stud wall?

So if I want my doors to open towards the outside of my theater room, use a 36" door as the first door, and then a 32" door, swinging into that same opening? I am trying to save the 36" floor space for a door opening into the theater. My guess is I should skip this idea, but thought I would see if anyone had thoughts on it. This would certainly limit how wide the door could open...

I want a back bar, and my guess is, if I have enough people over to need that, then the sound reduction need will be less at that time, so, might just be better off leaving both doors open and then not worry about hitting the person at the bar table...

Thanks!

Kevin


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post #30 of 58 Old 05-13-2014, 01:01 PM
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you would also need it shorter. My concern is the latch mechanism. I guess the outer door should be a ball catch or magnetic affair that could be forced open by applying pressure to the inner door. Otherwise if there was any mechanical failrure of the link mechanism you would be trapped.

But if the door is closed, how do you open it from the outside? Perhaps both doors need to be ball and catch affairs. Then the question is how good are the seals?


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