Ok, I'm going to build my home theater. Seriously, I mean it this time. - AVS Forum
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I started a thread for my home theater about 2 years ago that went stagnant due to a series of things that halted my progress. Now, hopefully, things have changed and I am ready to continue the project and would like the input and assistance from you all.

For those who may remember some details, Lead Paint Test Result - Negative, Asbestos Test Result - Negative, so I then demoed. The layout idea has changed but is flexible and the tub has been modified so the ceiling is all the same height. I am down to studs and some walls don't exist. There are several areas that I require assistance in the decision making process and hopefully you all can be here for that.

Dimensions: 18' 1.5" x 13' 9.5" x 7' 11" measured stud to stud and slab to bottom of main floor's joist.

Equipment List:

45" CIH Seymour AV Center Stage XD Screen - own
Isco IIIL Anamorphic Lens with Cineslide Transport - own
JVC HD250 - own
Oppo BDP-93 - own
Emotiva XPA-3 - own
Emotiva UPA-500 - own 2
Mirage OMD-R - own 6
Polk OWM3 - own 2
Global Cache equipment and Irule - own
Marantz AV8801 - to be purchased
LCRs - to be purchased debating between JBL LSR6332s and Adam Audio GTC77s
Subs - to be purchased planning on two JL Audio E112s
Seating - to be purchased planning on Elite Home Theater seating for four unless the layout changes
Crowson Tech Tactile Transducers - to be purchased planning on 4 transducers and one amp
Rack - to be purchased to DIY'd

Probably left something out up there but that should cover what I need to get the theater functional, additions can be purchased at a later date like a Lumagen or some other fun toy.

Electrical: I have one 15 amp circuit planned for the lighting, and three 20 amp circuits planned out one for the 2 subs and the Crowsons, one for the 3 Emotivas, and the third for the rest of the equipment. Do you think this will be sufficient? The 20 amps are all on the same side of the breaker box but the 15 amp is on the opposite side, this shouldn't matter since its just lighting on the 15 amp correct?

A sketch up of the floor plan. The small room to the bottom right is the bathroom that already exists. The longer rectangle room to the top right is what I plan to use as an equipment room, however, the wall that separates it from the theater has currently not been built.



Here are two layout ideas I'm working on, they are messy forgive me. Main differences are FL and FR speaker placement and the door of the equipment room. I know long way is better for acoustics, but the room is so narrow as it is then add the on wall OMD-Rs and it would basically leave me with only 2 seats for the first row and 3 seats for the second. The second row would be the worse place to watch a movie, being too far from the screen, very low ceiling, and so close to the rear wall, and it would be the majority of the theater's seats. Because of this, I have gone with the wide layout. If you see something that I'm missing that would improve the layout, then throw it at me.





The main things I need to figure out before the building phase can progress are the LCR placements, soundproofing, and climate control.

I am planning on the LCR speakers being built into a "Baffle Wall" so placement needs to be determined pre-construction. I know FL and FR should be placed at 30 degrees from MLP, however that it is outside of the screen frame which becomes an issue when having to "toe-in" the speakers. But, placing the LCRs inside the screen frame put them at 20 degrees or less (just under 15 degrees if I put them inside of the 16:9 frame) so what is the adopted norm on this situation? I assume 30 degrees is more for 2 channel stereo listening and that the tighter placement won't be as big of an issue for movie playback as I am making it?

Soundproofing will be DD+GG, need to figure out clips channel areas, and decide if room within a room would be worth loosing all the extra space over. Clipping the ceiling for sure, and understand I only need to clip the walls that share a wall with another room but I don't understand that concept 100%. I really only want to prevent the sound from getting to the floor above (master bedroom) and don't care if the other rooms in the basement can hear it or not, but if the sound can flank from the other rooms up than why can't it flank from the space between the foundation walls and up?

Now, the "Baffle Wall". Since the speakers will be in direct contact with the "face" of the framing, should that wall be decoupled from the floor joists above? If so, would this be where I would use IB-3 Brackets along the top plate? Also, if this wall should be decoupled using the IB-3s, is it ok that it is then in direct contact with walls (in the corners) that aren't decoupled? Wouldn't that end up re-coupling the wall?

Climate control. Which is better, soffit muffled supply and returns from the whole house HVAC system or Dead Vented supply/return? I am planning on a soffit running the perimeter of the room to contain the ducts and wiring, the soffit will be at least 1'x1' maybe a little bigger.

I'm sure I've left out all sorts of info that would assist everyone in helping me, sorry if that is the case and I'll update this main post with the requested info or if I think of info to add. Thanks in advance!

-Sean

Edited to add info about the soffit
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:21 PM
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Why not rotate the room 90 degrees counter clockwise?

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhendriksen View Post

Why not rotate the room 90 degrees counter clockwise?

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I'm afraid the room might be too narrow and too short. The OMD-Rs are on-walls, about 8" deep and currently planning on mounting them on 2x's for a column and lighting accent. After DD goes up, the room will be about 13.5' wide, then take away about 20" for the speakers, leaves me 142", then a row of three seats is 103" wide. That would leave about 19.5" to walk in between the seats and the speakers. Then, ceiling hight is gonna drop to about 7.5' after the clips, channel, and DD. With a riser at around a foot high and a few inches booster under the seats, that leaves about a 6.5' ceiling for the back row where there is no soffit and about 5-5.5' where the soffit runs. I'm worried that it might seem cramped, I just assumed you want aisles to be about 28" wide? Also, that ceiling height has me thinking no adult could get to the rear row comfortably. What do you think? Is There another way to accomplish the layout that way that I am overlooking? I guess I might be up for trying to sell the OMD-Rs and go with in-walls, but I think I'd still have the ceiling issue.

-Sean
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a couple quick 3d sketches for a rough idea of what I'm thinking right now.

Rear side view.


Speaker column/accent lighting/sconces


I'm currently thinking of using Auralex Studiofoam Metro on the walls, that would be what is purple in the pics. I'm planing on using the Wedgies for the baffle wall, the ATOM-12 System in the corners, and possibly the MetroFusor on the rear wall. I've also thought about OC 703 with GOM fabric but not sure if I'll be too lazy to make my own panels, lol.

The columns that the OMD-Rs will be mounted to will be 2 2x8s separated with a 1.5" gap. I will cut away 3/4" from the sides that face each other and mount plexi/lexan that will be frosted to span the gap between the 2x8s. I'm thinking the 2x8s will sit off the wall about 1.5" in order to allow the accent light to not only shine through the plexi but also spill out both sides of the columns creating a "halo" effect on them. They will be lit using phillips hue lights, one bulb at the bottom and the LED strip versions up both sides. I am going to finish the 2x8s with a carbon fiber look, using either 3M Di-Noc or Neffy Wrap, I will have to get samples to decide which I prefer.

The wall above the sound treatments will be finished using a Graham & Brown Wallpaper called Black Checker and the ceiling will have a base of a dark blue and possibly a star mural.

I've seen "home theater carpet" before but I don't know if it is any different than regular carpet? I'd like to go with a dark grey or charcoal shag carpet unless there is a reason to go with a home theater carpet. Any thoughts?

-Sean
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230-SEAN View Post

I'm afraid the room might be too narrow and too short. The OMD-Rs are on-walls, about 8" deep and currently planning on mounting them on 2x's for a column and lighting accent. After DD goes up, the room will be about 13.5' wide, then take away about 20" for the speakers, leaves me 142", then a row of three seats is 103" wide. That would leave about 19.5" to walk in between the seats and the speakers. Then, ceiling hight is gonna drop to about 7.5' after the clips, channel, and DD. With a riser at around a foot high and a few inches booster under the seats, that leaves about a 6.5' ceiling for the back row where there is no soffit and about 5-5.5' where the soffit runs. I'm worried that it might seem cramped, I just assumed you want aisles to be about 28" wide? Also, that ceiling height has me thinking no adult could get to the rear row comfortably. What do you think? Is There another way to accomplish the layout that way that I am overlooking? I guess I might be up for trying to sell the OMD-Rs and go with in-walls, but I think I'd still have the ceiling issue.

-Sean

I'm sure having a 28" wide aisle would be nice but certainly not necessary by any means. I just took a picture of my room. After skinning the room in OSB and hanging furring strips for fabric and all that good stuff, I ended up with 141" in width. The width between the chair rail and the chair arm, is a little less than 18".



I'm kind of a fat ass and can fit through there just fine. It's your room and you're paying for it but my opinion is to definitely flip it around 90 degrees. As far as a riser goes, have you thought about going with no riser and just building a bar for the back row? I wish I had room for one. They are very handy for guests and kids to eat on so the worry of eating in your recliners and them dropping food and other awesome stuff in between the cushions would be eased. Either way, I think your room is gonna look great.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that pic and letting me know that it is still do-able with the narrow aisle. I've thought about the no riser idea, but would want 4 seats, which would leave less than a foot on each side. I drew up a layout using 2 rows of 3, I'd end up with 18" in between the seats and the on-walls which as you've shown will work, however the soffit will most likely be an issue on the stairs up the riser. The soffit will be about 5'6" from the riser, that's pretty low. Maybe I'll check out 3 in the front and 2 in the back to open up some space for the stairs?




-Sean
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:46 AM
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I personally prefer your first layouts. Access to the bathroom and entrance is less constrained and the room just looks more open and inviting. I understand that risers and two rows of single seats produce the typical home theater look, but in a social setting, sitting in rows is just plain weird. "Hey, thanks for coming over. You sit back there. We will sit up here. See you in two hours." I suppose if you need 5 or 6 seats, rows is the only option. If you can get by with 4 seats most of the time the hassle of a riser, headroom, aisles and line of sight issues just doesn't seem worth it to me.

I could be biased because my room is setup with a single row in the wide layout.
My only complaint is that without an anamorphic lens my projector choices are severely limited due to the reduced throw distance.

Just my two cents. I'm sure 90% of forum members will disagree. smile.gif

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Old 04-01-2014, 05:54 AM
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+1 to preferring the first layout too.

Why don't you rip out the closets if you go with a long configuration? Is that a load bearing wall? If that is a beam up there, then why
not flip the room. You could then treat that beam as a soffit and recess a curved AT screen and AT wall. You could then hide the av rack
up front.

230.jpg 102k .jpg file

The riser could follow the angle of the chair arms, and you could create headroom by having the riser step in front of the armrest.
You basically be stepping up clear of the side soffit then. Under the soffit, you'd be on the floor.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230-SEAN View Post

Thanks for that pic and letting me know that it is still do-able with the narrow aisle. I've thought about the no riser idea, but would want 4 seats, which would leave less than a foot on each side. I drew up a layout using 2 rows of 3, I'd end up with 18" in between the seats and the on-walls which as you've shown will work, however the soffit will most likely be an issue on the stairs up the riser. The soffit will be about 5'6" from the riser, that's pretty low. Maybe I'll check out 3 in the front and 2 in the back to open up some space for the stairs?




-Sean
I was meaning putting a bar in the back like this, minus the riser and second row of theater recliners:





If you plan on flipping the room around from your original plan, then I think this would be best. Putting a riser in your room and soffits may make it a little cramped on your second row. You can see from the second picture, Moggie's bar is the width of 3 Berklines and he has 4 seats behind his bar which would give you seating for 7.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

+1 to preferring the first layout too.

Why don't you rip out the closets if you go with a long configuration? Is that a load bearing wall? If that is a beam up there, then why
not flip the room. You could then treat that beam as a soffit and recess a curved AT screen and AT wall. You could then hide the av rack
up front.

230.jpg 102k .jpg file

The riser could follow the angle of the chair arms, and you could create headroom by having the riser step in front of the armrest.
You basically be stepping up clear of the side soffit then. Under the soffit, you'd be on the floor.
Ted,
One of those closets is a bathroom that is already built.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:19 AM
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I missed that detail completely....

So my question should have been worded, "Is that bathroom expendable?". biggrin.gif

That is both a funny answer and a serious question.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys! I see what you're saying about the bar JVoth, but I'll need at least 4 actual seats, if only the room were wider. Ted, to answer your question, I wouldn't be able to justify removing it, lol, the wife would totally be against it. So, I guess single row wide room it is. I think I'll call Ted White today and discuss the speakers being in the baffle wall. Hopefully I can get this thing moving, sooner rather than later would be ideal.

-Sean
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I talked with Ted the other day and have decided that I will be building a room within a room. Now I need assistance on the placement of the Left and Right speakers. I know the common rule is 30 degrees left and 30 degrees right from MLP but that puts the speakers outside of the frame of the screen. Is that how most people do it or do you place them just inside the frame of the screen even though its less than 30 degrees? As of right now, if I went just inside the 2.35 frame it would be about 20 degrees and if I go just inside the 16:9 image it would be about 15 degrees. I'm worried this might be too close together, but if this is common then I'll do it. From my searching I've found some people put them at the 16:9 image sides, but I'm not sure where they are sitting when doing that so I don't know what degree they're using. If anyone has any experience with this I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

-Sean
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, due to the room within a room concept, the furthest I could get the eyes to screen distance was ~9 feet and the PJ would be right above our heads. So, after many many hours of humming and hawing I have come up with a possible new layout. I will have to scrap my on wall speakers and go with in walls, a costly decision as I already own the on walls and in walls seem to be rather expensive. However, the OMD-Rs are still brand new so maybe I'll be able to sell them for some money toward the in walls. Also, the new layout angles the walls inward toward the screen (due to a load bearing wall) and ends up more or less getting rid of the need for the deep soffit, so the head room will be opened up a bit for the riser. The PJ is now able to be in the equipment room outside of the actual theater space. I'm still working on different ideas so if you have a thought, please share.




From my research, the angled walls won't do anything for the room's acoustics as they are less that 6 degrees, but they allow me to have a wider room at one end without a stepping inward of the walls. I decided to go with a curved rear wall because I just thought it would look cool, lol. I am concerned, however, with how difficult this design will make the soundproofing as it won't be right angles butting up against each other like a rectangular room. I'm pretty sure as long as I do base layer wall and ceiling and then second layer wall and ceiling, it should still work the same.

-Sean
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:02 AM
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If you make those angled side walls simple speaker grill fabric walls, you can hide the OMD-Rs and acoustical treatments behind the
fabric.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I took my old Panny out of storage and stapled up an old drop cloth to the wall. Threw my 45" tall image on there and pulled a couch up so that my eyes were 9 feet from the drop cloth. Called my wife downstairs to check it out and get her opinion. We both decided that it wasn't too close after all. Lol, so.....back to the original plan, ha. It's a good thing that worked outbecause the other route was going to cost me an extra $11,000.00 for the new speakers, two more seats, and another set of Crowsons eek.gif Talk about a project being delayed while I saved up for that! Well, back to planning the soundproofing. Thinking of options for the ceiling, I may end up doing seperate beams and not using clips, I'll have to see if it yeilds a better result or not.

-Sean
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been working on the baffle wall design and I have something I like. I'm just not sure about whether I'm going to fill it with sand or insulation. I'm leaning toward sand, but not sure if filling the whole thing with sand will have any negative affects on the soundproofing side. I'd think it should improve the soundproofing side of things because of how massive it will be, however there will be very minimal airspace between it and the foundation wall, so that's the downfall.



As for the ceiling, I am going to support the ceiling with interior beams and have a completely decoupled structure from the rest of the house. I came up with the idea when I was sitting in my living room and daydreaming about the theater. I was looking up at the ceiling and thought "Why can't I just do that in the theater?". So it will have the same aesthetic as the ceilings throughout the house and it will yield better sound isolation. There will be 4 beams exposed to the inside of the room that also function as the structural bones of the room's ceiling. I'm pretty excited about this concept and I can't wait to pull it off.



I have also talked the the HVAC guy that I had install my home's geothermal system and we brainstormed how to cool the room in the winter without using a mini-split. We came up with a pretty ingenious idea but I'll have more on that later when I get to that point and prove the concept will work.

-Sean
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:09 AM
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Still planning on building this thing Sean?
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