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post #1 of 42 Old 05-15-2014, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife and I are relocating to Charlotte next month and are finding a large lack of basements in the area. However, in lieu of a basement, many houses have a large loft upstairs. It's not big enough for a full size theater, but I'd like to make it into something.

edit: Turns out we lost the house in a bidding war, but did find another one! Now the plan is to convert the "Gameroom" into a theater. I'm thinking 1 row of seats about 11 feet from a screen and this time my wife wants a bar and some cabinets on the back wall.

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post #2 of 42 Old 05-15-2014, 10:12 PM
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Welcome (soon) to Charlotte. My wife and I moved to Charlotte from San Diego about a year ago. I am still in research (savings) mode. When we bought the house I knew I wanted a room for the theater. Unfortunately that was before I found the forum here. Prior to discovering the wealth of information that is AVS forum I figured I would just throw some speakers into a room with a projector and screen. I hadn't realized that I had opened Pandora's box. It turns out that the more you learn the less you know. My room is very similar to the yours, but slightly smaller: 17'7" long x 13'11" wide. My side walls start at 7'2" and angle up to a flat portion at about 9' high.

Here are a couple of other threads I have flagged for reference that may be of help to you:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463750/the-crazy-home-theater-rebuild-thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476250/my-new-home-theater-after-complete-rebuild (same as above but with additional information on build)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/993528/the-rouge-theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1370663/nezffs-media-room

It looks like you already have a couple of builds under your belt so I look forward to seeing what you do with the space.
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post #3 of 42 Old 05-16-2014, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links. Those will be helpful I'm sure. The biggest challenge I see for this space is going to be where to put the screen so we're not sitting right on top of it. I was able to walk through a home that had almost the exact floor plan and loft and they had two big recliners against the left wall facing a 65" TV on the right wall. With their TV stand sticking out about 2' from the wall, the seating position was right at 10 - 10.5'. Initially that seems too close to do something as big as I had in my past two theaters. (110" 16x9, 138" 2.35) I could forego an AT screen this time and just mount the screen on the wall to gain an extra 2', but with the speakers at the sides, I might lose the ability to do a scope screen again, which I really liked. I'm also worried about the acoustics with the sloped ceilings.

I have a chance to walk through the room again this weekend so I'm going to take better measurements and start drafting some plans.

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post #4 of 42 Old 05-16-2014, 05:47 AM
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Make window plugs and use that wall for the screen, In ceiling speakers for the rears,
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post #5 of 42 Old 05-16-2014, 08:45 PM
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The acoustics of the angled ceiling worry me in my own room as well. I would be curious to know how in-ceiling speakers would perform in this situation. I am considering putting ceiling joists that span the short side of my own room to square it up.

I agree that plugging the windows is the way to go so that you can use the length of your room to increase the seating distance from the screen. If you can get your seating position back to about 13' you could fit a 110" horizontal screen at 40 degree [horizontal] viewing angle, which may or may not work based on your viewing preferences.
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post #6 of 42 Old 05-16-2014, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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The acoustics of the angled ceiling worry me in my own room as well. I would be curious to know how in-ceiling speakers would perform in this situation. I am considering putting ceiling joists that span the short side of my own room to square it up.

I agree that plugging the windows is the way to go so that you can use the length of your room to increase the seating distance from the screen. If you can get your seating position back to about 13' you could fit a 110" horizontal screen at 40 degree [horizontal] viewing angle, which may or may not work based on your viewing preferences.
I think in ceiling speakers would work pretty well since they would be downward firing and thus not as affected by the slope. I'm curious how the fronts, centers and sides (if I go 7.x again) will fare. As for screen size, I'd like to go bigger than 110" as that was the size I had in my first theater and always felt it was small. Perhaps sitting closer to it will give me that bigger feeling I'm looking for. I'd also want to do scope again, so we'll see what I can do.

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post #7 of 42 Old 05-16-2014, 09:11 PM
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It is definitely easy to get hung up on screen size without taking distance into consideration. Ultimately we're really just trying to fill a certain portion of our field of view, right? What was the seating distance for your 110" screen before?
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post #8 of 42 Old 05-17-2014, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking at my previous plans, my main row was approximately 15' from the screen. It was 110", 16x9. I always felt like I could've gone bigger. Interestingly, I looked at my 2nd theater's plans, and it too has the viewing distance at about 15' as well. That screen was 141" 2.37, which also provided a 110" 16x9 image, but I felt like it was just right. The main differences were Scope vs. 16x9 and the carpet - in the 1st theater we had light carpet, and in the 2nd we had dark carpet. Perhaps the extra darkness and Scope size just made things feel right.

I won't have exact measurements until tomorrow, but I'd guess I can comfortably get seats about 12-13' from a screen wall, if I don't go AT. What's not in that drawing are the doors, which I'm guessing I could reverse to open outward, but I also don't want to have to tippy toe around the chairs when I come into the room.

I've found these links helpful in determining view distance and angles:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1052262/how-to-calculate-vertical-viewing-angle
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
http://www.screeninnovations.com/viewing-distance-calculator/

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post #9 of 42 Old 05-17-2014, 05:31 AM
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I've always used this set of guidelines, most of my clients prefer a 45 degree viewing angle or more. Those calculators are suggesting much smaller.

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post #10 of 42 Old 05-17-2014, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I've always used this set of guidelines, most of my clients prefer a 45 degree viewing angle or more. Those calculators are suggesting much smaller.
Just so I'm understanding the chart right - at 45 degrees, it looks like a recomendation of 1.21 x W, so with a 100" wide screen, viewing distance would be 121"?

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post #11 of 42 Old 05-17-2014, 05:51 AM
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post #12 of 42 Old 06-06-2014, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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New house, new plan. Now I've got a bigger, more "normal" space to work with!


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post #13 of 42 Old 06-08-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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For those that have a bar in their theater - how much room do you have under the counter for chairs? And how much clearance do you have between the chairs and a the back wall or other obstacles? With this new plan, we are thinking of putting bar as a back row, but also need/want some wall cabinets along the back wall for memorabilia display, candy, etc. In trying to maximize seating distance for the main row, how much space should I leave between the stools and the cabinets behind?

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post #14 of 42 Old 06-16-2014, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's some pics of what the room looks like now, along with a draft floorplan.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_9493.jpg (70.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9494.jpg (68.2 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9489.jpg (159.6 KB, 332 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9488.jpg (128.1 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9487.jpg (118.1 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9486.jpg (137.3 KB, 37 views)
File Type: png MediaRoom_After.png (46.9 KB, 54 views)

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post #15 of 42 Old 06-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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Welcome to Charlotte and congratulations on the new home! My wife and I relocated here from up North just over 8 years ago and we really enjoy it. We're only about 20 minutes drive away from the Concord Mills mall ourselves.

Looking at your plans, it looks like you are closing off the rear passageway, closing off access to the bathroom from the room and gutting the closet, correct? I didn't know what you had drawn behind the bar in the back right of the room....what is that?

Could you share a little bit about your plans for the room, including how you'd like to use it and a proposed equipment list? For example, do you plan on closing off the windows or just using powered blackout roller shades running in a channel to kill the sunlight? What's your prospective budget?

I'm sub'd and looking forward to following along! Heck, I may just be able to come over and help out every now and then. You can't see it, but I am holding a "will construct theater for beer" sign right now.
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post #16 of 42 Old 06-16-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at your plans, it looks like you are closing off the rear passageway, closing off access to the bathroom from the room and gutting the closet, correct? I didn't know what you had drawn behind the bar in the back right of the room....what is that?
Exactly! The "stuff" along the back wall are cabinets. I had put in a base cabinet (in the middle) on the drawing so that we could visualize how much space they would really take up. As you can see, probably more than we'd like. My wife has some movie memorabilia she'd like to display, but wants doors to protect from prying fingers.

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Could you share a little bit about your plans for the room, including how you'd like to use it and a proposed equipment list? For example, do you plan on closing off the windows or just using powered blackout roller shades running in a channel to kill the sunlight? What's your prospective budget?
The room will be used 80% for movies, 10% for TV and 10% for gaming. I originally was just planning on just using shades for the windows, but I'll probably need the extra wall space for posters. Plus, I've gotten the go ahead from the Mrs. to either pull them out or build a new wall in front of them.

As for equipment, I have CM9s for the fronts and CM5s for the surrounds, but seeing the space I have to work with, I will probably go with in-wall/in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds. I've been reading a lot of good things about the Def Tech RSS/RCS series or the Triads. My first theater had Def Tech's and I really liked their sound so I might go back to those. It's back to the drawing board on PJ as I sold my HW50 with the house, but really liked the Sony.

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I'm sub'd and looking forward to following along! Heck, I may just be able to come over and help out every now and then. You can't see it, but I am holding a "will construct theater for beer" sign right now.
I might take you up on that - ha! After going through a complete soundproofing effort on my last theater, I think I'll go easy on this one. The hardest part is going to be the audio tuning as I probably won't be able to do full acoustic treatments as in the past.

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post #17 of 42 Old 06-18-2014, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Posted this over in the Speaker section, but thought I'd get some feedback over here as well -

Def Tech RSS/RCS II or III for my space?

I have B&W CM9s and CM5s for a 7.1 setup that I was originally planning, but the new space is much narrower and has no room for bookshelf or on-wall speakers. As a result, I've been debating on going in-wall/in-ceiling and the Def Tech's seem to get glowing reviews.

HOWEVER, which ones do I go with, the II's or III's? It seems the difference is the size of the drivers. I've got about 4.5' from center listening position to side speaker location (RSS) and about 5.5' to rear speaker location (RCS).

As these are surrounds I'm considering the smaller III's, but would hate to be underwhelmed by them because of their size.

Thoughts?

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post #18 of 42 Old 06-18-2014, 03:19 PM
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The only advantage in going with the RCS II vs. the RSS III is that the RCSII has lower bass extension, but that will not be needed in your application as both go well below the frequency crossover you will be setting in your preamp. Both also have the same power handling capability, FYI, so no advantage there.

Have you considered Triad Bronze or Silver In-walls as a higher-end alternative? Not that the Definitive Technology speakers are bad, but for seemingly the same money, especially for the all-important LCR in-walls (if all in-wall is the way you are going with this system) where you will get much higher performance. Of course I am making another assumption that you'd be selling on your B&W speakers to get into a full timbre-matched set of speakers from the same manufacturer.

What are you planning for woofage???
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post #19 of 42 Old 06-18-2014, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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The only advantage in going with the RCS II vs. the RSS III is that the RCSII has lower bass extension, but that will not be needed in your application as both go well below the frequency crossover you will be setting in your preamp. Both also have the same power handling capability, FYI, so no advantage there.

Have you considered Triad Bronze or Silver In-walls as a higher-end alternative? Not that the Definitive Technology speakers are bad, but for seemingly the same money, especially for the all-important LCR in-walls (if all in-wall is the way you are going with this system) where you will get much higher performance. Of course I am making another assumption that you'd be selling on your B&W speakers to get into a full timbre-matched set of speakers from the same manufacturer.

What are you planning for woofage???
I really like the CM9s as LCRs so no plans to sell those, plus I'm already planning a false wall to hide my Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub. And since the others are just surrounds, I'm not too concerned about timbre matching. I've read good things about the Triads, but think they'll be more than I want to spend for surrounds. Do you know any shop in the area that have them for auditioning?

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post #20 of 42 Old 06-18-2014, 05:05 PM
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The CM9s are a great speaker and you would definitely be downgrading by moving into in-walls, so I am glad to hear you are keeping them. I love B&W speakers and used to have Nautilus 802s for L/R, HTM1 for center and 803s for the surrounds for a long time. Loved that system, but I had to move on.

Anyhow, Audio Advice down by Carolina Place Mall (right off I-485) would be your go-to place here in the city for both B&W and Triad.
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post #21 of 42 Old 06-20-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'd really like to "wall over" these windows and give myself some additional poster hanging space. What would be the best way to black these out or seal them up so I don't have any moisture or bug problems. Once that's complete, my plan is to build a brand new wall in front of them.


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post #22 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 07:11 AM
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Third times the charm. Since this is your third one, you should have lots of ideas on what to do and not to do, to have a theater that fits your needs.
Looks like a nice space to work with.

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post #23 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 09:23 AM
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I was in Charlotte for 10 years and I'm only 3 hours away now. I'll be interested to follow this one.
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post #24 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Third times the charm. Since this is your third one, you should have lots of ideas on what to do and not to do, to have a theater that fits your needs.
Looks like a nice space to work with.
Thanks. Being the third one also means I'll probably be a bit more lax with soundproofing. I went full tilt on the last one, and while it definitely performed well, it was a lot of extra work that I don't want to do again. (DD+GG in between joists, for example) The space is off the kitchen and below the master, and since it's just me and the wife anyway, I'll be dialing it back this time around.

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post #25 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 01:52 PM
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Hold on.....so you're going to build it without going crazy about creating a soundproof bunker that will take you an additional 6 months to complete and double your budget???? Why that is just blasphemy here sir!

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post #26 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I know, I know. A lot of the room is already completed so I don't want to rip down too much. The wall with the windows will need to come down to avoid a triple leaf, but I'll probably just leave the rest of it and just put up treatments. We officially move in next week, so I'll really get a good chance to check things out and see what I have to work with. I'm hoping the walls and ceiling have some insulation in them or else I will be ripping it all out.

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post #27 of 42 Old 06-25-2014, 10:10 AM
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Where is the house in Concord? I lived off Hwy 73 (Sam Furr Rd) in the edge of Huntersville but technically Cabarrus county until 2009.
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post #28 of 42 Old 06-28-2014, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Where is the house in Concord? I lived off Hwy 73 (Sam Furr Rd) in the edge of Huntersville but technically Cabarrus county until 2009.
It's on the other side of 85, definitely into Cabarrus. I'll be utilizing 73 often to get to/from work!

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post #29 of 42 Old 06-30-2014, 05:47 AM
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Gotcha. Make sure to look for cables, wall plates and such at Firefold.com. They are a company based in Concord and you might even be able to order and pickup the same day from their location if you do it between 9-5 M-F.
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post #30 of 42 Old 06-30-2014, 11:56 AM
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So that one room currently has four openings/doors?

It also looks like it's off the kitchen, why the desire for cabinets in the back?

You may want to mock up your placements with existing furniture and materials to get a feel for the room you will have. I'm thinking you would want the additional space at the back that the cabinets will consume.

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Play like a Raven

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Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

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