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post #1 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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My private theater.

I have been toying with the ideal of building a private theater for many years. My original ideal was for commercial use. That has slowly gave way to private use. I have been on the commercial side of cinema sine 1985. So i know what i want and do not want in my theater.

My house sits on 21 acres of land. So my private theater will be in it's own building away from the main house. This will reduce any extra cost of extensive sound insulation as the grasshoppers won't mind the bass, and i can have 100 percent light control by putting doors were i want to. The building will measure 30 feet wide by 65 feet deep. The odd ball 65 foot includes the 5 feet i will have behind the screen, and between the outside wall for speaker placement. The house(auditorium) will be 30x40 feet, the lobby, snack, kitchen area will measure roughly 30x20 feet. As i think that is enough room for a long bar, stools, cooking counter, popcorn machine, beverage, refrigerator, oven, stove top, etc.

In my head, the building will be a Art Deco, modern theme to it, inside and out. I do plan a LED marquee sign that will be a miniature version of the old Martini Theater in my hometown of Galveston, TX that was built in the 1920's. I think this alone will round out commercial cinema style. What let me to building a separate building as apposed to a room add on to my house was simple. Taxes. Were i live in South East Texas it is cheaper to build another building, than add on to a existing structure as far as yearly property taxes are concerned. I guess that is what we Texans get for not having a state income tax. Oh well.

The building will be 2 stories tall at the front and slant back to a roughly 14 feet height at the screen wall. The reason i want this, is because simply the way a lot of older cinema theater's were built. And it allows me a full 30 feet wide x 20 feet deep projector room, with sufficient headroom on the 2nd floor. With, hardware, media, as well as movie storage that will be using in wall shelf's. Of course the building will include his/hers restrooms accessed from the auditorium. HVAC planning will be done after a working 3D model is created by a Architect. Most likely the HVAC will be roof top units, as i think it is more efficient than running HVAC ducts all over the place and loosing valuable space.

The screen size is going to be comparable to the room it's in. I'm going 2:39.1 at 25.16 feet wide by 10.5 feet tall. A curved screen was originally planed, but i have decided on a flat screen for the best appearance. That is why i want the 14 foot tall screen wall. That will give me a IMAX type floor to ceiling, wall to wall screen, but in a 2:39.1 ratio screen. I am mulling acoustic or not on the screen material. Yes it will be silver material, that much is certain. If i can plan the speaker boxes, given the room i have to work with behind the screen. to not directly emit at the screen and cause a billowing effect i will do with out acoustic material, if i can not test something that works, then i will use acoustic material for the screen. It is a huge price difference. I plan on using curtains for masking between 16:9 and 4:3 content and to completely hide the screen. To me curtains will fit in nicely.

And most important it will allow me to keep the center speakers off the floor, and pointed at the seating area to prevent harmonic distortion echo, that is common with a lot of center speakers placed to close to the floor. The DCI, Dolby, THX standard is to have the center speakers exactly middle of the screen, at slight degrees left and right. So when the actor or announcer is talking, it appears the sound is coming right from there mouth. I have made no decision on Chanel output yet. I do know it will be 7.1 or higher. The center high speakers of a 7.1 system sound very good on a large setting like this. Other than that the whole sound area is up for grabs. I do know were i want the speakers, just not how many and custom build or pre built. All sub woofers will be built by me and will feature downward firing subs. As i personally think this set up sounds the best for large areas. All surround speakers will be in the open, just like your regular cinema house. Only the center, center high, left, right and subs will be behind the screen.

I have been all over with types and kinds of projectors. I think i have backed myself into a corner and excluded my self form 99.5 percent of all consumer brands and types. For the most part the throw distance of nearly 37 feet is far beyond consumer projectors, except for adding a lens that would double the price and reduce the light output enough to make it not an option, as it would require dual projectors and all the components, and never ending convergence issues as consumer bulbs never wear the same. So i am firmly into commercial projectors at this point. And that is OK with me. Last week i became the owner of a Christie cine 35MM projector. Yes 35MM film. The Cine comes with all the pieces, i even fired it up and showed a few short 10 minute reels thru it on a warehouse wall. The warehouse workers got a laugh out of that, the owner, not so much. I think this projector will make a great conversation point in my theater as i have boxes of old 35MM previews to run thru it. My favorite's are the dancing coke and popcorn concession add and THX that everyone over 20 remembers seeing.

Right now i have placed seating at about 30. In what will be 4 rows, with each row being 2 foot lower towards the screen. If i did my math right, all seats will be in the "sweet" viewing spot while seated. There will be plenty of room for extra seats, bean bags and mats for the kids. Also i am allowing enough room from the front roll of seats to the screen for what i will call a Xbox kinect pit area for the kids, myself included. The pit will allow you to play the game and allow those who are seated to have a full, unobstructed view of the screen. Again this type of pit is common for IMAX theaters. There will be a long table across the back row of seat with bar stools to eat and watch, as well as two tables and three chairs each for those who chose to Facebook and text or make phone calls and not disturb the movie.

This is all still in the very early and rough planning phase as i have done a few rough drafts and some inquiring and bids for architects and contractors. And of course a lot will probably change before the slab is poured. And if everything can be done the way i want it, i plan for construction to begin in early December 2014 or January 2015 and hopefully finished by summer 2015.

Any and all negative and positive commits are greatly welcome. And i will keep this thread updated when practical.
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post #2 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 06:07 PM
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All I can say is WOW!! That is one of the most ambitious residential theater projects I have ever seen or even heard about. The scale is something else. Things really are a lot bigger in Texas!!!!

You and I are going for the same exact design aesthetic - Art Deco with the clean, sweeping lines. I've spent a lot of time curating original Art Deco lighting and door hardware to help add that authentic touch to my theater. I must have poured over tens of thousands of images by this point while doodling through the long planning process before starting.

I see you have side speaker arrays. Will you at least be wiring for Barco's Auro 3D or Dolby Atmos for object-based surround sound?? Will you be considering one of the commercial processors with a suite of QSC DSP and amplification? I think you would be remiss to not at least prewire for the Voice of God speaker arrays and the audio "layers" of speakers on all walls.

Speaking of speakers, do you have a "short list" of choices? Given the size of your space, you absolutely must have commercial speakers with compression drivers and directed reflectivity waveguides like Procella Audio, JBL Synthesis, Genelec and several others. There are DIY speaker options, but I'm not sure if you are interested in going that direction. Personally, I chose Procella's smaller set of speakers that is more appropriately scaled to my room size.

Having the 35mm projector is really cool, but considering most new movies are not even recorded on film, let alone distributed, it seems as though you will still be in need of a digital projector. Christie Digital and Digital Projection (DPI) and Wolf Cinema are the only companies I am aware that have true "light canon" options that can fill that size of screen with adequate brightness.

I am subscribed to your thread and really look forward to following along.


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post #3 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 07:19 PM
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I hope you didn't settle too far from Galveston...

I do wonder, though, with all the space you're planning, and since you mentioned gaming and kids - have you considered dividing the space for multi-use? If it were me, I'd build out a lobby with a full game room / arcade optimized for gaming (video or otherwise) and perhaps "Cinema #2 " for kids to watch a movie while the grown-ups are in the Main Theater.

And it would be a travesty if you didn't build the screen as a CIH setup with 2.35 support.

Lastly, you will be hosting an AVS party, correct?

Jeff


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post #4 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 07:33 PM
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Nice project... I'm in for another Texas GTG

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

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post #5 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
All I can say is WOW!! That is one of the most ambitious residential theater projects I have ever seen or even heard about. The scale is something else. Things really are a lot bigger in Texas!!!!

You and I are going for the same exact design aesthetic - Art Deco with the clean, sweeping lines. I've spent a lot of time curating original Art Deco lighting and door hardware to help add that authentic touch to my theater. I must have poured over tens of thousands of images by this point while doodling through the long planning process before starting.

I see you have side speaker arrays. Will you at least be wiring for Barco's Auro 3D or Dolby Atmos for object-based surround sound?? Will you be considering one of the commercial processors with a suite of QSC DSP and amplification? I think you would be remiss to not at least prewire for the Voice of God speaker arrays and the audio "layers" of speakers on all walls.

Speaking of speakers, do you have a "short list" of choices? Given the size of your space, you absolutely must have commercial speakers with compression drivers and directed reflectivity waveguides like Procella Audio, JBL Synthesis, Genelec and several others. There are DIY speaker options, but I'm not sure if you are interested in going that direction. Personally, I chose Procella's smaller set of speakers that is more appropriately scaled to my room size.

Having the 35mm projector is really cool, but considering most new movies are not even recorded on film, let alone distributed, it seems as though you will still be in need of a digital projector. Christie Digital and Digital Projection (DPI) and Wolf Cinema are the only companies I am aware that have true "light canon" options that can fill that size of screen with adequate brightness.

I am subscribed to your thread and really look forward to following along.
Mine will be a Art Deco/Contemporary style. I like clean, non cluttered, sweeping lines.

My neighbor seen me measuring with a measuring wheel and sitting out survey stakes and asked if i was selling some land off. I told him no it was for a future theater, he asked what the admission price was going to be.

Like i said this all started with a sheet of stationary paper and rough sketches for a commercial theater around 25 years ago. The last few months i have been grown tired of being in somebody else home theater, so the plans got shrunk to what it is now.

No, right now speakers are kind of in the back. As there is much to do before speakers come into play. I have not ruled out anything with speakers. The only thing i am for certain about, is were they will be going.

The old Christie Cine (I can remember when these was bran new, so it can't be old, right?) is just for show. It will be a kind of how it was demonstration to people who have never seen a commercial film projector in action. There is still entire movies on film for sale, yes old, the problem is how was the film handled and stored. Yes a digital projector will be the workhorse. And it will probably be some model of Christie Digital. As i want CIH, passive 3D, ease of parts and replacements lamps. For the record i will let it stand as 4K "upgrade" as there is really no 4K content right now. Most of what i will be watching will be 1080P or up scaled to 2K.
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post #6 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
I hope you didn't settle too far from Galveston...

I do wonder, though, with all the space you're planning, and since you mentioned gaming and kids - have you considered dividing the space for multi-use? If it were me, I'd build out a lobby with a full game room / arcade optimized for gaming (video or otherwise) and perhaps "Cinema #2 " for kids to watch a movie while the grown-ups are in the Main Theater.

And it would be a travesty if you didn't build the screen as a CIH setup with 2.35 support.

Lastly, you will be hosting an AVS party, correct?

Jeff
Near Brazoria, but closer to Santa Fe was as far as i could get from Galveston and still be married. Hurricane Ike was something, but it didn't empress my wife any.

I did think about doing a split room. The whole commercial cinema part ideal won out. MPAA ratings will be enforced on any and all it applies to. There will be two multicades in the lobby.

Since i have made up my mind to use curtains for masking, i'm going to do what it takes for CIH. Not cheap, but well worth it.
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post #7 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 08:46 PM
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That sounds like it will be amazing and I do hope you will be able to keep all of us updated on the construction with pics.

I envy the amount of land you have! Must be so peaceful...

ROB
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post #8 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 09:41 PM
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post #9 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 10:02 PM
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A source for Screen material that has no seams at the size your aspiring to is here:
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...-material.html

Just use the pull down selection menu and choose the largest size available in 2.39:1 format (126" x 302")

This material has a significant amount of stretch, which will be greatly advantageous when applying it to your framework.

At that size, and in a controlled light setting, you'd neither need nor want to use a Silver impregnated material, but rather a custom applied surface specifically designed for your projector's performance envelope and the room's lighting environment. You really want to find the contrast and black levels you desire through a careful balance of PJ attributes and surface attibutes, not through a predetermined criteria set by a Mfg.

Newer Acoustic Transparent material at the sizes you'd need has both a seam and overly exaggerated hole patterns. Loss of foot lambert reflectivity through pass-though will diminish the output of any but 10,000 + lumen units. Absolutely the temptation to hide the Front Sound Stage behind that mammoth screen is hard to resist, but to do so opens up several other issues

Speaker-wise, a Klipsch THX-Ultra set up, configured into a 11.4 system w/6 additional Matrix Surrounds would be at least appreciably adequate for your needs, and not nearly as pricey as other esoteric offerings. The real determining factor will involved your desired db & spl levels as relates to your room's given acoustics.

Your most important considerations "sound-wise" will be evenly divided between the Pre-Amp / Processor you chose and the design of your acoustical entrapment s. In the case of the latter, gelling architectural design with specifically tuned dampening will make or break your sound.

Yes sir....an ambitious project. But prudent choices and effective planning can garner you results that even you might not be expecting...and do so at a price point many might not deem possible.

Good luck!

PS...

You can consider a dual PJ set up and accomplish mega contrast and lumen output for a fraction of the cost some of the other Dual lamp units and Anamorphic Lens you'd have to consider. Constant Image Height would entail manual adjustment prior to any presentation, but the cost differential and simplicity would make such manual labor worth it.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #10 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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That sounds like it will be amazing and I do hope you will be able to keep all of us updated on the construction with pics.

I envy the amount of land you have! Must be so peaceful...
Thanks i hope it is amazing when the dust settles as well. Yes it is peaceful, compared to the city i grew up in.
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post #11 of 33 Old 06-19-2014, 11:30 PM
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Christie Digital and Digital Projection (DPI) and Wolf Cinema are the only companies I am aware that have true "light canon" options that can fill that size of screen with adequate brightness.
The big 4 are Christie, Barco, NEC, and Sony. Wolf, Display Development, and the highend Runco & SIM2 units "rebadge" the former, mostly Christie. I like the Sony for the high CR and ability to scale the brightness using 1 to 6 bulbs. Sony also has the option of making good use of the 4k panels by splitting 2k per eye for 3D on the same chip then optically combining them with a special lens. It's true passive 3D from 1 projector - no wheels or LCD shutters. But that's on paper. I'm hoping to see one in a HT setting next month. I generally preffer the look of DLP vs SXRD, though, and like the idea of being able to physically converge the chips, so still might go with DLP. The advent of HDMI 2.0 complicates things, though. I know the Sony has HDMI 1.4, but it remains to be seen if/when/how they will support 2.0. I'm too poor for the hard drive based stuff for anything but special occasions, so will want it to work with Bluray. I would hate to spend the extra $$$ on a 4k projector, then not be able to feed it with 4k Bluray when it came out.

 

 

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post #12 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Mississippi, you made some good points. I guess all us southerners think alike. I was just browsing Carl's site before i came here. I was amazed to see he has screen that size now.A friend of mine used his screen for a 130 or so inch wide screen for his Optoma HD20. I was amazed at how well it worked and it looked great. That will move to the top slot on the screen. I'm wiping the tears from my eyes after getting my quote back from Stewart Filmscreen. That is a shame. I really did want to use there silver5D screen material.

I know perfectly well who and what Klipsch is. Made right here in the USA. Dolby Atmos(subs) and THX certified. I have placed more than one of there loudspeakers. See, you just gave me an ideal there. I'm going to see if i can find a set of there older 13" line recently pulled from a theater, that is still in good shape. The voice coils are a snap to replace and there is a new speaker. That would rock the house. I need to test and see what the effects and sound quality loss are for speakers behind a non acoustic screen. The one thing i do not want, is to see the screen billow from the speakers.

I'm not afraid to say i'm stupid when it comes to consumer projectors. I can take a Barco, Christie, Sony or NEC to chassis and back in less than an hour. I know nothing about consumer projectors. And for those wondering about that statement, consumer projectors and commercial projectors both throw a light powered image, and that is all they have in common.

I own a Optoma HD66 and there 3D box i got for gaming that i have setup in a spare bedroom with a Elite 16:9 pull down screen that i purchased off of Ebay new a few years ago. No the 66 is way under powered for what i want in the PT. However i liked the concept of the 3D converter box, hate the no remote, down side there is no support for it as Optoma has discontinued making it. Dual consumer projectors with two of them would have in passive 3D, but would require a heavy investment for a anamorphic lens. Yes the light loss, versus a Mirage or similar projector, has me fully leaned towards a commercial unit.

Lots to think about, but no Massey rocker chairs in my Theater!

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post #13 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The big 4 are Christie, Barco, NEC, and Sony. Wolf, Display Development, and the highend Runco & SIM2 units "rebadge" the former, mostly Christie. I like the Sony for the high CR and ability to scale the brightness using 1 to 6 bulbs. Sony also has the option of making good use of the 4k panels by splitting 2k per eye for 3D on the same chip then optically combining them with a special lens. It's true passive 3D from 1 projector - no wheels or LCD shutters. But that's on paper. I'm hoping to see one in a HT setting next month. I generally preffer the look of DLP vs SXRD, though, and like the idea of being able to physically converge the chips, so still might go with DLP. The advent of HDMI 2.0 complicates things, though. I know the Sony has HDMI 1.4, but it remains to be seen if/when/how they will support 2.0. I'm too poor for the hard drive based stuff for anything but special occasions, so will want it to work with Bluray. I would hate to spend the extra $$$ on a 4k projector, then not be able to feed it with 4k Bluray when it came out.
It is a everybody has there own opinion, i never liked SXRD and i think Sony missed the movie by not adding DLP to it's line up. But that is Sony. What i do like is 3 chip DLP with a future upgrade to 4K.

I have posted this link a lot today for some reason. Here is the official HDMI website on all things HDMI.

http://www.hdmi.org/

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post #14 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 05:04 AM
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The big 4 are Christie, Barco, NEC, and Sony. Wolf, Display Development, and the highend Runco & SIM2 units "rebadge" the former, mostly Christie.
You're right. I should have been a bit more specific with my comment, but I was pressed for time. The reason I mentioned those companies was because they have a solid residential projector line all the way up into the "prosumer" class. Epson could be another (as they are OEM to over 50% of the world's projectors), but there is a limitation to Epson's tech. Sony is a good example in that they have both residential and commercial divisions, but there isn't anything available between $28k for their 4K residential projector and the really expensive ($125k+) entry level commercial units. NEC withdrew from residential projectors *around* 2005 and Barco focused on commercial when CRTs began to die out and only re-entered the residential market this year. To your point, although it is rebranded tech, Sim2 is also a good choice. I'd kill for a Lumis 3D Solo, but I can't bring myself to spend that kind of coin on 1080p at the cusp of transition to 4K.


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You're right. I should have been a bit more specific with my comment, but I was pressed for time. The reason I mentioned those companies was because they have a solid residential projector line all the way up into the "prosumer" class. Epson could be another (as they are OEM to over 50% of the world's projectors), but there is a limitation to Epson's tech. Sony is a good example in that they have both residential and commercial divisions, but there isn't anything available between $28k for their 4K residential projector and the really expensive ($125k+) entry level commercial units. NEC withdrew from residential projectors *around* 2005 and Barco focused on commercial when CRTs began to die out and only re-entered the residential market this year. To your point, although it is rebranded tech, Sim2 is also a good choice. I'd kill for a Lumis 3D Solo, but I can't bring myself to spend that kind of coin on 1080p at the cusp of transition to 4K.
Most Sim2 projectors are redone Christie units. As for 4k i want to be able to make a easy upgrade to that. However, HD-DVD burned me to the tune of 236 HD-DVD's i still own, so i will wait probably 2 or 3 years before i go full on 4K. Right now BDA is trying to figure out the best way to get 4K onto a Blu-Ray disk. The way i see it is like this, there will have to be lots of 4 layer players sold to get 4K off of a disk. A lot of people will try to just use there regular player and it will not read the disk. That will start mad consumer forums. So i see many problems with 4K on disk, not so much streaming content, i'm still going to wait for the dust to settle down of 4K before i commit to it.
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Y I should have been a bit more specific with my comment, but I was pressed for time. The reason I mentioned those companies was because they have a solid residential projector line all the way up into the "prosumer" class.
I know. I just thought I would beat Cinima Andy to the punch.

 

 


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post #17 of 33 Old 07-09-2014, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a small update and a set back. First the Architect i wanted to do the plans for my PT, who i used for my house, is extremely busy and she is not sure if she can get it done by when i want it done. So have to see how that plays out. I did follow her advice and play around in Google Sketchup and got a good general ideal of what i want it to look like. Not bad software, even for some one who is CAD ignorant, like me. The one thing i have decided on is speakers. JBL Pros 3-ways for screen channel speaker and 2-way surrounds and Crown amps. The way i see it is, i got the screen, might as well have the sound to go with it. I have been really wanting laser projection, i am hitting many road blocks on this. So i may end up using a Christie Digital CP2210 projector. Not to bash the 2210 wonderful projector, Christie is mum on if and when they will offer 4K upgrade for it. Besides 2048 x 1080 2K is easy with a HTPC. I plan to wait on any serious 4K purchases. I really don't want to go the full blown DCI route with my PT, but with the screen size i don't see many options for making it look or sound right. The DCI (Digital Cinema Initiatives) is pretty much, well it is the specs digital cinemas work off of. The problem is if you are using non DCI content, it plays rather poorly. And at the same time i don't want to have to use dual projectors, and that is what i will have to do if i go the consumer route. The 2210 can be as bright at 12,000 lumens depending on your lamp choice and is also 3D ready and has a half dozen or more lens choices. My other choice was the Barco DP2K-8Sx.

On a side note, and still in the rumor mill, a good friend of mine who works at Universal studios informed me that there are talks about offering consumer DCI content for that period were a movie is between the dollar show and DVD/Blu-Ray release. This will probably be costly and either hard drive or download, either way, there is about a dozen or 14 movies i would purchase in there full DCI spec.

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post #18 of 33 Old 07-10-2014, 05:20 AM
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Have you considered engaging a Theater Designer? At your level of expenditure you should have a plan from someone who knows theaters, equipment and acoustics. I would use the Erskine Group. You can PM SierraMikeBravo for info.


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post #19 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Have you considered engaging a Theater Designer? At your level of expenditure you should have a plan from someone who knows theaters, equipment and acoustics. I would use the Erskine Group. You can PM SierraMikeBravo for info.
Thanks for the input there BIG, but i put together commercial theaters for a living, so i got the designs covered, i just need them drawn up into build plans that my contractors can use. If i yell help on anything, it will be speaker pointing and location help.

This is where i am to date with my plans.
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post #20 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 06:34 AM
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Having my morning coffee and contemplating how phenomenal this cinema will be when all is said and done. You MUST have a GTG when it's all done!


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post #21 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 08:06 AM
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Very cool project indeed. I can't wait to see how this progresses.

Reading through it seems like you're set on side surrounds - have you ruled out ceiling speakers for Atmos? With the recent announcements of Atmos in the home via AVRs and BD disks, your theater seems like a no-brainer for it. You could be the first AVSForum member with it...


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post #22 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Very cool project indeed. I can't wait to see how this progresses.

Reading through it seems like you're set on side surrounds - have you ruled out ceiling speakers for Atmos? With the recent announcements of Atmos in the home via AVRs and BD disks, your theater seems like a no-brainer for it. You could be the first AVSForum member with it...
My using Atmos from the beginning was to be based on what i ended up using for projection. As much as i do not like to bring work home with me, it looks like DCP with DCI spec will be how i do it. And if i go full blown DCI, then a Dolby CP850 will be the sound processor and of course Atmos. And for those who want to know what the Dolby CP850 is, http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professio...cts/cp850.html and for JBL pro's i have spoken of, https://www.jblpro.com/www/home and why i chose to power them with crown amps http://www.crownaudio.com/
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post #23 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 02:11 PM
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The problem with the Dolby piece is there are no DTS decoders inside. And with seemingly 80% of Blu Rays having DTS tracks, you'll need a second processor for most movie playback. Few of Blu Rays in my collection of ~200 discs have TRUE HD.
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post #24 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 03:09 PM
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My goodness this is awesome! Subbed to see the process of this theater build. Glad you are somewhat local to me, so maybe I can visit you some day. Good luck with the build!


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post #25 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The problem with the Dolby piece is there are no DTS decoders inside. And with seemingly 80% of Blu Rays having DTS tracks, you'll need a second processor for most movie playback. Few of Blu Rays in my collection of ~200 discs have TRUE HD.
Yeah i know. Something else i have been kicking around is how to decode DTS, so i see some planning to get it to work correctly in a DCP environment. I think QSC will solve my problem there. http://qsccinema.com/news/q-sys-cinema-immersive-audio/ That will add more clutter to the rack and probably some compatibility issues.
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post #26 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I left out one very important piece on the Dolby Atmos CP850 sound processor, if you want to use legacy(analog) amps you have to purchase there converter. Since i am going all digital and using Crown class D amps it is no problem for me.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 04:36 PM
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Yeah i know. Something else i have been kicking around is how to decode DTS, so i see some planning to get it to work correctly in a DCP environment. I think QSC will solve my problem there. http://qsccinema.com/news/q-sys-cinema-immersive-audio/ That will add more clutter to the rack and probably some compatibility issues.
This may be helpful as I have been corresponding with QSC in the background on the best way for pure digital integration of a Core 250i DSP processor with the CP850. Like the Crown amplifiers, the new QSYS amplifiers will take a direct digital connection.

http://www.boxoffice.com/news/2014-0...o-at-cinemacon

The way the Dolby Atmos and Q-Sys link as of right now is through beta firmware for the Dolby CP850 processor and a beta build of Q-Sys Designer 4.0.33.

The Dolby CP850 outputs the stream of audio from the audio render of the Dolby D-Cinema server rendering the Atmos objects and bed files. The audio is routed through Q-Sys to the amplifiers along with all of the system tuning. Getting from the CP850 to Q-Sys is just a network cable from the output to the LAN-B/Aux port of a 250i. This standard is using AES-67 protocol and clock system sync timing through an as of right now needed AES-3 input card on card slot A.

All that to say, the necessary parts to run Atmos would be a Dolby D-Cinema Server, Dolby CP850 decoder, and an AES card in slot A.

Also listed in this article is the ability to run MDA which is an open source solution to immersive audio developed by DTS. Within the same beta build of Designer 4.0.33 is a built-in MDA renderer and player. This allows the audio playback of beds and objects without an external decoder. A cinema server would still be needed along with a sync card. The cinema server could either be a Dolby D-Cinema Server or a Doremi Labs cinema server or even others as the standard is open source.

A picture of the setup at April's CinemaCon 2014:


And you may or may not have seen this article, but I thought this was very useful:
https://www.editorsguild.com/Fromthe...TheGuildid=454

EDIT: By the way, when I see your projection room, I kept having visions of a projection room picture I had archived from QSC's files....


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post #28 of 33 Old 07-18-2014, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Well that is plenty to think about. And after some talk time with Christie Digital, i was made aware that there SKA-3D is what i need.

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us...ie-ska-3d.aspx

There SKA-3D has two HDMI input's, one on the front one on the back as well as all the other BNC, DVI, VGA, etc input's and all the outputs. And in there words "This powerful audio and video processor can extract the latest, high-quality, loss less audio from HDMI signals, such as Dolby TrueHD® and DTS-HD Master Audio®, for integrating into cinema audio systems." And i was told that it is Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D complied and will work with either of the "overhead" systems. So it appears that the Dolby CP850 is a go. And because i am going with all digital amps i will not need the Dolby DAC3201 for analog legacy amps. That was great news to hear this morning, and this has been a stumbling block for me as to how to deliver the sound, and still use DCI spec amps, speakers, etc but with Blu-Ray or a HTPC or other device. Not only does it do the sound part, it also takes and separates a Blu-Ray 3D over HDMI and separates it into two complete signals for the left and right eye and delivers this to the projector via dual dvi input's, this my friends, opens the door for 4K projection, as this is how a "Commercial" projector likes to get 3D content, in two separate connections. And of course it will still need a IMB to get the source to the projector, and there are many IMB's on the market by numerous manufactures. But, for me i can easily see a all Christie set up from projection, audio, speakers with the only exception being a Dolby CP850 for Atmos processing. Yes i am hyped about this.

Another great thing about the Christie Digital SKA-3D, is that it works with any DCI spec IMB, audio processor, projector.

TMcG i have seen that rack set up, and probably hundreds if not thousands like it tucked away on the second floor of a multiplex out of sight and mind, until something does not work. And if you look closely at that picture you will see a orange light on the 6th from the bottom of the end rack, not a good sign there, overloaded, overheated or both, or they are showing a Lord of the Rings movie lol. No i do plan on using a "single" Middle Atlantic rack, a full wall encloser that pulls out and swivels for easy rear access as i want my rack next to the wall to maximize space for other things.

http://www.amazon.com/Series-Rotatin...720960&sr=1-25
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post #29 of 33 Old 07-18-2014, 05:43 PM
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I knew it would be 'old hat' to you, but something I hadn't previously seen before.

And your rack picture is MUCH better than what I posted!!!


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post #30 of 33 Old 07-19-2014, 12:10 AM
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Mississippi, you made some good points. I guess all us southerners think alike. I was just browsing Carl's site before i came here. I was amazed to see he has screen that size now.A friend of mine used his screen for a 130 or so inch wide screen for his Optoma HD20. I was amazed at how well it worked and it looked great. That will move to the top slot on the screen. I'm wiping the tears from my eyes after getting my quote back from Stewart Filmscreen. That is a shame. I really did want to use there silver5D screen material.

I know perfectly well who and what Klipsch is. Made right here in the USA. Dolby Atmos(subs) and THX certified. I have placed more than one of there loudspeakers. See, you just gave me an ideal there. I'm going to see if i can find a set of there older 13" line recently pulled from a theater, that is still in good shape. The voice coils are a snap to replace and there is a new speaker. That would rock the house. I need to test and see what the effects and sound quality loss are for speakers behind a non acoustic screen. The one thing i do not want, is to see the screen billow from the speakers.

I'm not afraid to say i'm stupid when it comes to consumer projectors. I can take a Barco, Christie, Sony or NEC to chassis and back in less than an hour. I know nothing about consumer projectors. And for those wondering about that statement, consumer projectors and commercial projectors both throw a light powered image, and that is all they have in common.

I own a Optoma HD66 and there 3D box i got for gaming that i have setup in a spare bedroom with a Elite 16:9 pull down screen that i purchased off of Ebay new a few years ago. No the 66 is way under powered for what i want in the PT. However i liked the concept of the 3D converter box, hate the no remote, down side there is no support for it as Optoma has discontinued making it. Dual consumer projectors with two of them would have in passive 3D, but would require a heavy investment for a anamorphic lens. Yes the light loss, versus a Mirage or similar projector, has me fully leaned towards a commercial unit.

Lots to think about, but no Massey rocker chairs in my Theater!
JBL 2360As are the speakers I am running in my setup... They sound great, and are from a Theater too. With the size you are going I am assuming you will be running everything Pro Theater.

Denon 4520ci, (3) JBL 2360As/EV DHA-1s, (3) 1/4 Pie bass bins, MiniDSP 2x4s, (4) Klipsch HIPs, (2) Klipsch KP3002s, PS3, XBox 360, (3) Intel NUCs, Monoprice Redmere, Monster HTPS7000, 2 SUPER SPUD subs, Panasonic AE8000us SeymourAV 180 (195" diagonal) scope screen, Yamaha P7000s (for the subs), (2) Yamaha P2500s amps for the front (3) bass bins.
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