Le Petit Trianon V 3.0 (thebland) 7.2 --> 12.5 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Le Petit Trianon V 3.0 (thebland) 7.2 --> 12.5

Here we go again...

I am doing a major makeover to my theater with a fully new speaker system from Quested (12.5) to regain top level performance in my Dennis Erskine designed room... Time to move away from horns and compression drivers. More amplification, improved columns and new surround processing and room correction are part of this update. Construction has begun. Speakers and amplifiers are on a pallet coming from the UK and will be here next week and hopefully be installed by the end of the week. Subwoofers are in house. More photos coming.

GOALS:

1. Lower noise floor by completely closing off equipment room from theater with hidden, acoustically treated doors and the port opening for the projector closed with optical glass.

2. New Speakers: Leaving my SPL Runts and Klipsch THX Surrounds behind for an all Quested speaker system.
- Model LT-10 for LCRs and Front Heights
- Model LT-8 for Side and Rear Surrounds
- Model LT2-4 for Side Heights and Rear Heights

LT-10s use Air Motion Tweeters and all other use ribbons. The system will allow the LCRs and Front Heights to play 115 db at listening position (17') and all others to 105 db. This was tested for and verified by Quested in their labs (long time speaker at Abby Road Studio in the UK).

http://www.quested.com/studio-monito.../LT-Series.pdf

3. 7.2 to 12.5 Speaker configuration - 3 LCRs, 2 Front Heights, 2 Side, 2 Rears, 2 Side Heights and 2 Rear Heights.

4. Rebuild Baffle Wall to accommodate new LCRs and Heights as well as subwoofers behind screen.

5. Amplification: Quested AP-750-2 750 Watt amplifiers for LCRS and Front Heights. A single bridged amplifier for each LCR and stereo amplifier for the front Heights. 4 Quested amplifiers total for all front speakers. QSC Studio Reference Amplifiers for surrounds and side and rear heights (725 Watts per Channel).

5. New Subwoofers: 5 Seaton Submersives - 4 behind the screen wall and 1 (one) in the rear of the theater. Mark Seaton has been to my theater and taken measurements in the room and these are the best locations. He will come back to fine tune their output as only he can!

6. For Video: I will still employ my SIM2 Lumis/HOST and ISCO III anamorphic lens. Screen is same 14' wide Stewart Microperf with automated masking for aspect ratios from 1.33 to 2.40.

7. Surround Processor: Have sold my ADA MACH IV. Will replace with either new TRINNOV Altitude or DATASAT RS-20i as both have 16 - 32 channels of output. Each allows for active crossovers. Leaning towards Datasat as it is here and now and will be shipping with AURO 3-D in a month and is far less $$ than the Trinnov.

8. Modify Columns: for better lateral sound dispersion (will show pictures).

CURRENT ROOM photos and SPEAKERS (LT-10 and LT-8 in photo #1 , LT2-4 below).








Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6046.jpg (202.3 KB, 407 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6047.jpg (171.0 KB, 407 views)
File Type: jpg DSC05177.jpg (238.4 KB, 404 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02009.jpg (132.1 KB, 400 views)

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009

Last edited by thebland; 06-23-2014 at 06:03 AM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 01:51 PM
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This thread looks interesting. You don't fool around do you?
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post #3 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Great vid! Laughed out loud!

As I get older, I have less patience for mediocrity. Besides, it's been many years since I've changed out speakers, surround processor and subs. I simply want a good result. When I told my wife what this would all cost, she said, "I know the deal with this hobby".

Priceless!!
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post #4 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Great vid! Laughed out loud!

As I get older, I have less patience for mediocrity. I simply want a good result. When I told my wife what this would all cost, she said, " I know the deal with this hobby'. Priceless!!
You should put this as your signature. Haha. That is priceless.

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post #5 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 06:50 PM
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post #6 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 06:52 PM
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Hey Jeff,

Few questions:

1) Did you consider the Catalysts? Isn't that was Art has, and good enough filling his larger room? Plus you already have a good relationship with Mark, and he is coming out to do the subs.

2) I assume you are going to need to recalibrate everything. Are you going to have Dennis do that or someone else?

3) Is someone redoing your baffle wall design for you, or are you going to wing it?

4) Dennis is big on compression drivers & wave guides with everything else pretty much being crap. Triad gets a pass for some reason, despite having the same 1" dome tweeters he says won't cut it for HT. Did you listen to the Procella's ? They are thin, so should not have trouble fitting them anywhere.

5) Are you getting Quested through Peter?

 

 

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post #7 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 07:40 PM
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Should be a fun (re)build.

I also 2nd the question on the Catalysts - I have a full Seaton Sound setup - and I have no problem achieving reference+ levels in my decent sized room.

Besides isolation, are you changing any other sonic characteristics of your room?

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post #8 of 33 Old 06-20-2014, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post
Hey Jeff,

Few questions:

1) Did you consider the Catalysts? Isn't that was Art has, and good enough filling his larger room? Plus you already have a good relationship with Mark, and he is coming out to do the subs.

2) I assume you are going to need to recalibrate everything. Are you going to have Dennis do that or someone else?

3) Is someone redoing your baffle wall design for you, or are you going to wing it?

4) Dennis is big on compression drivers & wave guides with everything else pretty much being crap. Triad gets a pass for some reason, despite having the same 1" dome tweeters he says won't cut it for HT. Did you listen to the Procella's ? They are thin, so should not have trouble fitting them anywhere.

5) Are you getting Quested through Peter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post
Should be a fun (re)build.

I also 2nd the question on the Catalysts - I have a full Seaton Sound setup - and I have no problem achieving reference+ levels in my decent sized room.

Besides isolation, are you changing any other sonic characteristics of your room?

1. Yes. In fact I had Mark send up a Catalyst to demo. I had a pair of Questeds on site as well. I had both calibrated to the room by Curt (Trinnov) for demoing. In the end, Mark's speaker was a refined (and far better) speaker to my previous SPL Runts. However, the sonics of the Questeds were so unique, I wanted to go a different route.

2. I will need to re calibrate, I have a former Datasat engineer booked to calibrate in August. Unless, I go with the Trinnov, I'm planning on the Datasat and DIRAC Live.

3. I have a local audio install company doing the build out. Really revamping what I already had to fit the new speakers.

4. Yes, compression drivers are suited for home theater. I listened to Procellas at a CEDIA years back and came away unimpressed. Moreover, I was concerned about big output (domes) and the surrounds would've required a redesign of my columns even more so than I'm already doing. Didn't consider Triads for output reasons.

5. Peter (Cineramax), who has used these in set ups far more impressive than mine, is my dealer.


John, if funds permitted, I'd like to have put in more updated diffusion all around. That would require a complete re-fabricing of the room. Perhaps down the road, but for now I'm planning on so the many extra speakers to make such somewhat less relevant.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009

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post #9 of 33 Old 06-22-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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One conuncrum here.

Since I will have 2 height speakers as well as the LCRs behind the screen and standard procedure is to put the LCRs just above the center line of the screen, that leaves less room to separate from the heights... Where to place the LCRs?? The heights will be up high (above left nad right speakers) and in the corners of the screen tilted to the listening area.

Thinking I may have them installed so the tweeters are at ear level from the second row which would put them 6" below the center line of the screen. The screen area is 6' tall.
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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #10 of 33 Old 06-22-2014, 04:59 PM
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Take the URL for the photo (by opening it in another window full size and copy it)

Add [img] and then [/img] to the begining and end after you copy paste the URL.

That is how you embed photos on the new AVS. Otherwise it's just an attachment.

This is the URL: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...4&d=1403459747



See ^

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post #11 of 33 Old 06-23-2014, 03:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Much better. Thanks!
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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #12 of 33 Old 06-25-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quested speakers and amplifiers are delivered!


Jeff

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 33 Old 06-30-2014, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Size comparison of the LT-10 (LCRs and front heights) and LT-8 (surround side and surround rears). Wider, deeper, heavier and the ATM vs the ribbon assembly is huge.


There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #14 of 33 Old 06-30-2014, 02:37 PM
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Awesome.

I've been using AMT's for about 3 years now, never, ever going back to domes or CD's.

I look forward to seeing some measurements of the Quested's

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post #15 of 33 Old 07-01-2014, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome.

I've been using AMT's for about 3 years now, never, ever going back to domes or CD's.

I look forward to seeing some measurements of the Quested's
Glad to hear it. It was somewhat a leap of faith even though I demo'd them for a couple months. Compared to the two compression driver speakers, these came out on top for me.

These Questeds have very high output and should hit 110 db+ at my listening position.

I've had compression drivers for years but at high levels for any extended duration, they are fatiguing and moreover, their natural fall off requires more EQ - contributing to the upper level stridency.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #16 of 33 Old 07-02-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm.. Going to move my Front Heights from behind the screen to forward of the screen, up high in the tray and pointed to the main listening position. Side and rear heights will likely be moved as well. Atmos has really thrown me for a loop.

Am redesigning the baffle wall.

Will have photos next week of completed equipment room and new rear doors and projector port hole and glass.

Slow... progress.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #17 of 33 Old 07-02-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hmm.. Going to move my Front Heights from behind the screen to forward of the screen, up high in the tray and pointed to the main listening position. Side and rear heights will likely be moved as well. Atmos has really thrown me for a loop.

Am redesigning the baffle wall.

Will have photos next week of completed equipment room and new rear doors and projector port hole and glass.

Slow... progress.
Both of us are literally at same stage..........

I wish these Quested speakers were available or I knew about them at the time I made speaker selection. Have always loved ribbons which AMT's I find similar in sound signature.

I'm definitely in a whirlwind with Atmos implementation too...........my thoughts for TEQ-12 are out the window due to lack of inputs/outputs. still looking for other possibilities that can meet current and future needs.

Will follow closely........
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post #18 of 33 Old 07-11-2014, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Speaking of obtrusive, I have my little one painting boxes that mirror the dimensions of the LT-10s (Front Height Speakers).

I have to see how obtrusive they will look. So, I'll mount these and photograph them to see. Hopefully, they simply blend in to the black of the tray.


Otherwise behind the screen they go.


There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #19 of 33 Old 07-11-2014, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Big Speakers but do Blend in.

Lon, I think I'm good with the black paint but perhaps can use your recommendations on the speakers if need be.

Obtrusive in size but seem to blend. I will have my equipment room finished next week and will mount my projector and check it out with it powered on to check any reflection. The speaker on the right, due to the box partly opened and not being flat really catches the flash, the left which was closed flat is barely perceptible. The photo of that is pretty accurate with pre-movie lighting on.

Not as bad as I looked. It looked terrible before I had my daughter paint the boxes. I will remove the bulbs from the two lights over the speakers.

Otherwise, I will make the baffle wall for 5 speakers.

Thoughts?







There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #20 of 33 Old 07-11-2014, 09:52 AM
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Those are big speakers, but with the lights off i'd doubt you'll notice them. You've got a disease, going through this re-do when you had a theater i would love to have! Love it, though!

Also, nice 997.

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post #21 of 33 Old 07-12-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by saldog78 View Post
Those are big speakers, but with the lights off i'd doubt you'll notice them. You've got a disease, going through this re-do when you had a theater i would love to have! Love it, though!

Also, nice 997.
It is a disease as I don't have a clear picture as to the resulting sound. This multi channel audio has thrown me for a loop as there is so little subjective experience or objective info.

Thanks! it's a 2012 Turbo S. Last of the 997s...

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #22 of 33 Old 07-19-2014, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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New amplifiers are unpacked and loading in this weekend. QUESTED AP-750-2 amplifiers. Bridged for LCRs and stereo for Front Heights. 750 W per channel in stereo.

Will have photos of new equipment room. It is all is closed off from the rest of the theater for, hopefully, an insane low noise floor!!

Next week baffle wall completion and installation and mounting of all the 11.5 speakers.

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post #23 of 33 Old 07-20-2014, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting there...

Note Columns rewrapped with new fabric and solid metal corners to reduce diffraction from surrounds.

Note brackets for mounting for Surround Sides and Surround Heights (Side and Rear).

I chose the LT-24s (narrow speaker) as they will tuck up nicely in my tray ceiling yet will still achieve ~100 db at main listening position.

Equipment room is complete (sound proofed)... time to add amplifiers and equipment and re-wire.

Still unsure of where to place REAR Surround Heights?? - In rear corners toe'd in towards main listening position or directly above rear surrounds. Side Surround Heights will be directly in line with second row seating (main listening position).




Attached Images
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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009

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post #24 of 33 Old 07-21-2014, 04:11 AM
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Quested speakers and amplifiers are delivered!
I've said this before and I'll say it again....it's never a bad day when a whole pallet of high-end AV gear is delivered!!

Really nice set of upgrades to what was already an outstanding theater. Regarding the preamp/processor....do you have any reservations moving forward with the Datasat now that Atmos has been announced? No doubt it is one heck of an audio processor for current material, but without the Atmos codec and no announcement of Auro-3D Blurays, it seems to be a considerable investment that will be outdated in just a few months. Or have you heard that the Datasat can be upgraded with Atmos processing in the near future?

The modifications to your equipment/projection room look great!
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post #25 of 33 Old 07-21-2014, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
I've said this before and I'll say it again....it's never a bad day when a whole pallet of high-end AV gear is delivered!!

Really nice set of upgrades to what was already an outstanding theater. Regarding the preamp/processor....do you have any reservations moving forward with the Datasat now that Atmos has been announced? No doubt it is one heck of an audio processor for current material, but without the Atmos codec and no announcement of Auro-3D Blurays, it seems to be a considerable investment that will be outdated in just a few months. Or have you heard that the Datasat can be upgraded with Atmos processing in the near future?

The modifications to your equipment/projection room look great!
Thanks for the complements! It's been a long slog.

I am concerned about that but with the Trinnov not coming until October at best and the significant cost differential, I believe I am still going to go DATASAT.

There is no news on ATMOS on the DATASAT, but I imagine it is more 'when' than 'if'. Auro will allow upmixing to 13.1 - I can use that now.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #26 of 33 Old 07-24-2014, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Amplifiers installed.

Processor and Blu Ray and other sources access from inside equipment room.



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File Type: jpg _6008530.JPG (57.5 KB, 92 views)

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-24-2014, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Processor being shipped to me on Tuesday. Calibration Aug 18 - but still have to complete baffle wall and mount all 12 speakers.

I think I am adding another sub, too ;-).

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #28 of 33 Old 07-25-2014, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, what is the safest way to mount 70 lb speakers from ceiling?

I assume I'll have to remove drywall to find ceiling stud. Place plywood between studs and mount speaker mount hardware plate to plywood with bolts with T-Nuts? Bolt with washers?

Any suggestions?
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post #29 of 33 Old 07-25-2014, 12:06 PM
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Thick long screws directly into stud (found by measuring or stud finder) is probably ok, without tearing out sheetrock and adding plywood.

Many screws are rated for 100 pounds holding. 4 or 8 screws should be ok assuming you hit wood like a 2x4 and get a good couple inches of grab with the screw.

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post #30 of 33 Old 07-25-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Also, what is the safest way to mount 70 lb speakers from ceiling?

I assume I'll have to remove drywall to find ceiling stud. Place plywood between studs and mount speaker mount hardware plate to plywood with bolts with T-Nuts? Bolt with washers?

Any suggestions?
Assuming you are trying to achieve a resilient and vibration-free mounting of the speaker, I have some suggestions for you from Kinetics Noise Control, but don't have time at the moment to dig into the exact product codes. If you look under 'suspended vibration isolation', that's your start.

As an aside, most of the Kinetics will work well with traditional metal mounting products like Unistrut and threaded rod. All the damping is done in the bracket which can be mounted to the structure above.

How is your current ceiling constructed and installed?? Clips and channel? Mass loaded Vinyl? Double drywall with Green Glue?

More to follow later.
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