DOLBY ATMOS coming to Homes in Fall. Who's modding their theaters for such? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Will you modify your theater for Atmos?
Hell yeah! As soon as I see the set up guide, I'm in and will wait for content after modding room. 32 23.36%
No way! 7.1 is all I'll install or pay for. 16 11.68%
I will wait for content and what else shakes out, maybe 6 months or a year or more.. 89 64.96%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
I'm old, losing my hearing.....and not in mood to change again. My 9.4 suits me just fine......especially with a TEQ-12.
The fact that I have to ask people to repeat themselves about 5 times is an indication my hearing might not be so great anymore either.
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post #32 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Patience rewards you with value.
Patience, but not moderation though eh?

Wait for the big tech to hit the streets, then pound it hard!!!

They can have all my money!!! I want big surround sound!!!
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post #33 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 07:18 AM
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The fact that I have to ask people to repeat themselves about 5 times is an indication my hearing might not be so great anymore either.
Sorry...What?
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post #34 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 08:41 AM
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I can see me adding 4 ceiling speakers in the next year. It's attic above so I think it will be pretty straight forward for me.
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post #35 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranster View Post
The fact that I have to ask people to repeat themselves about 5 times is an indication my hearing might not be so great anymore either.
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Sorry...What?
I keep chuckling to myself about this.

Such a dad joke. The old man was fond of this type.
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post #36 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder if the ceiling speakers will need to reach reference level???

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #37 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 10:10 AM
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I'm sure it can't hurt

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post #38 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranster View Post
The fact that I have to ask people to repeat themselves about 5 times is an indication my hearing might not be so great anymore either.
<- Tinnitus checking in.

Fawk Tinnitus. Just fock it.

It really sucks hearing ringing instead of quiet and my sensation for sound is reduced. I was tested last in 2012 and although I am only 36 my hearing is the lower range of normal. I can still hear well enough to enjoy music and movies but I try to take extra precaution when working with power tools or mowing the lawn, or motocross. I bought an inexpensive pair of Klipsch S4i headphones (earbuds) because they do an outstanding job at blocking out sound with a tight fit and a sound blocking design and now I wear them when I mow the lawn or work with powertools (loud ones). The one killer for me is my crap harbor freight air compressor- that thing is obnoxious and I use it often enough it's very annoying.

Circling back to the original point I wanted to make before I ran on a tangent- Proper audio equipment and even more important proper set up, and even more important than that proper treated and designed room - really will make it easier to hear and more enjoyable. I originally thought that because I didn't have great hearing above 17khz and I had Tinnitus it might not matter for sound proofing or room treatments or going the extra mile but really it matters even more. The easiest way to hear better and more clear is a good room IMO. If your noise floor is 45db you might need to watch at 115db to get the full dynamic range, but lower your noise floor to 20db and you can now watch at 95db and enjoy full dynamic range. Even more importantly, you can watch at 70db and hear most everything in the better room too. Treating for reflections and echo and bass nulls also means hearing more, and not having to play so loud.

Step into a cathedral peak room with hardwood or tile floors and lots of windows without much rugs or curtains and clap your hands, then go clap them in a room with carpet, and drapes and curtains. It's a big difference. The local bar just installed acoustic ceiling tile absorbers and wall absorbers and also installed heavy curtains around the windows and I can now hear conversation in there. Before it was just clutter. Bad hearing is often the result of not being able to differentiate one sound from another, or perceive the difference in loudness from multiple sounds. That makes it hard to hear conversation in a noisy place as an example. I have this. But in a great room I can hear everything- and when I just went to see Godzilla in the theater I noticed how great it sounded and the localization of the sound. The room is the key, but certainly with the right room and right set up you will enjoy ATMOS or any other form of object localization even with bad hearing.


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Patience, but not moderation though eh?
I suck equally with patience as I do with moderation. It's easier to give advice than take it. If I could actually afford a new AVR with ATMOS to replace my not old enough yet Denon 11.2 AVR I am not even using height or wides with yet, I'd probably do it. But the matter is being decided for me, my checkbook is made from rubber now that I have twins and wifey isn't working.


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I wonder if the ceiling speakers will need to reach reference level???
I would think so. The mixers would mix it at the volume they want you to experience it. So if it's not the volume of reference they wouldn't mix it that loud. But using a speaker that's far below the others in capabilities or output might not get the proper result. Not at full reference or great volume anyways...
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post #39 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 12:14 PM
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Honestly, I have no idea. The room that is currently in construction (hopefully finished soon) is wired for 7.4. I could wire for 4 ceiling speakers, but my ceiling is just over 7 feet, so I don't know if it would be a waste. I can't seem to find a minimum height for them to be effective.
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post #40 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 12:32 PM
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Ok I'll bite..........

I may be old, but wise enough to prepare!

Since I'm in the middle of coffered ceiling project, makes sense to pre-wire for VOG speakers. BTW, speaking of VOG........thank God I have ten foot ceilings!

With coffers getting deeper by the minute, I haven't seem diagram for home cinema.......does anyone have a link specific to residential?

After doing some reading.......best to prepare by wearing a life preserver before the ship Titanic sails!.
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post #41 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 12:32 PM
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It's probably more a volume and channel leveling problem with some delay if they are too close- but matching them in volume, using a design that works well near field in your situation, and perhaps some delay to make the sound reach you the same time other speakers do would turn out ok.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #42 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 02:23 PM
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Atmos and Auro have different recommended height speaker layouts, and DTS UHD only seems to say it will work with any speaker layout, so it will be interesting to see how everyone who is willing to upgrade choose which if both atmos and auro are released on BR, and will this be a BR vs HDDVD kinda deal in which some studios only release in one format and other studios in the competing format hence requiring an avr to have both capabilities such as current dolby thd and dtsma? And with BR now working on details of a UHD(4k) will there be enough room on the disc for all this? Obviously so far anyone who mostly streams still can't get current lossless formats and with the assumingly extra information these newer audio formats bring pretty much keeps it off the streaming viewing at least for the near future.
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post #43 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
I haven't seem diagram for home cinema.......does anyone have a link specific to residential?
Posted elsewhere on this forum:


Sanjay
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post #44 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 04:11 PM
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Maybe this one day: 7.1 layout including Dolby Atmos-enabled front and surround speakers or add-on speaker modules

Last edited by willmo; 06-26-2014 at 04:33 AM. Reason: typo
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post #45 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 07:01 PM
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Is it just me or does the front and top height as well as the comparable rears seem to be too close together to have an appreciable effect in sound moving around on screen? I guess if the room is large enough and the actual distances significant then maybe but in most home based movie rooms would it really be worth the extra speaker/wire/amplification? Of course many even on the forum may be asking this of anything beyond 5.1! In my current 11.2, my height speakers are in the position of the top front heights but directed to the seated position and this seems to work ok with most of the matrixed sound being that it typically is mostly ambient in nature. I never did try placing the front heights were typically pictured, since my ceiling is only 8 ft and my front towers are almost 5 ft , I couldn't image a monitor speaker being able to 'add' anything competing with that.
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post #46 of 92 Old 06-25-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Posted elsewhere on this forum:

Thanks.....

So......

I have two sets of side surrounds than I am NOT moving. I'm ok with placing additional speakers in ceiling since coffered ceiling will hide and work quite easily.

Appreciate the photos.......sure helps.
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post #47 of 92 Old 07-04-2014, 10:22 PM
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Honestly, I have trouble finding true 7.1 content let alone 9.1/9.2/11.2+.
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post #48 of 92 Old 07-05-2014, 04:58 PM
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Atmos has my attention because of some unique aspects I can incorporate in my builds. I will of course wait to see what type of matix processing is possible using the Onkyo equipment, and therein move prudently and with due measure, .......but with hidden Ceiling placement possible, and acoustic advantages inherent in the use of Audio Transducers, along with the potential of installing such a system in not just large Theater designs but those of more humble dimensions, I can see the potential to provide the next level of fully immersive , mutil-channel sound.

And actually do so at a reasonable degree of affordability.

The other advantage I seem to have is the frequent opportunities I am presented with in the New Home Construction market.

So yes....I'm in.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #49 of 92 Old 07-06-2014, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by aftcomet View Post
Honestly, I have trouble finding true 7.1 content let alone 9.1/9.2/11.2+.
When I heard the wides being used in a 5.1 set up (wides were used instead of the 7.1 rears IIRC in this case), the processing filled in the wide speakers quite well - a helicopter flying from the sides to the front in Apocalypse Now had a much better transition and it worked really well - the wides filled in the large gap between side surrounds and LCR.

It probably won't work with all movies, but if the processing can do a good job filling in additional wide speakers, I'm sure it can fill in others as well, to give the 3D sound effect we're after. Of course, there may also be errors where sounds come from places they're not supposed to in some cases, so we'll have to wait and see if the pros outweigh the cons in those movies. We're all going to be watching non 3D audio movies for quite some time until/if they're going to be reissued with the new sound encoded on them.

Gary
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post #50 of 92 Old 07-06-2014, 04:44 PM
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As much as it's kinda fugly, the drop ceiling in my man cave has allowed me to make changes that would otherwise be difficult. I'm totally jumping in and getting some height speakers. It should be pretty easy for me to install them. I will still wait to set it all up until more is known about the receivers and such. Getting a new receiver is going to be hard to justify to the wife seeing as the one I have is pretty damned good and works just fine.

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post #51 of 92 Old 08-01-2014, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
When I heard the wides being used in a 5.1 set up (wides were used instead of the 7.1 rears IIRC in this case), the processing filled in the wide speakers quite well - a helicopter flying from the sides to the front in Apocalypse Now had a much better transition and it worked really well - the wides filled in the large gap between side surrounds and LCR.

It probably won't work with all movies, but if the processing can do a good job filling in additional wide speakers, I'm sure it can fill in others as well, to give the 3D sound effect we're after. Of course, there may also be errors where sounds come from places they're not supposed to in some cases, so we'll have to wait and see if the pros outweigh the cons in those movies. We're all going to be watching non 3D audio movies for quite some time until/if they're going to be reissued with the new sound encoded on them.

Gary
Yeah that's true, processing can make a big difference, but I would still argue it's better to invest in the best possible 7.1 speakers than spreading your budget across an additional 4 speakers.
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post #52 of 92 Old 08-01-2014, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftcomet View Post
I would still argue it's better to invest in the best possible 7.1 speakers than spreading your budget across an additional 4 speakers.
For how long? Would you ever add height speakers or would you instead take that same money and use it to keep improving your 7.1 set-up?

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post #53 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 02:20 AM
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For how long? Would you ever add height speakers or would you instead take that same money and use it to keep improving your 7.1 set-up?
Not sure I understand. All I'm saying is people usually start off with a plan and a budget. That budget is better put to use getting the best 7.1 setup than planning for ATMOS and spreading the speaker budget thin.

If down the road you want to dump your 7.1 Receiver/AMP for an ATMOS one, and add more speakers that's a difference story. The value in doing so however will be highly subjective. For the average person, it probably won't be worth it.

Now what would I do? Leave my system as is. I'm primarily a bang for buck guy. I'm not one of those people that will pay ultimate premiums to get the very best (even if the very best is only a minor amount better than the next best thing, while costing much more).

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post #54 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftcomet View Post
Not sure I understand. All I'm saying is people usually start off with a plan and a budget. That budget is better put to use getting the best 7.1 setup than planning for ATMOS and spreading the speaker budget thin.
"Budget" does not have to mean small. There can also be budgets that are well able to accommodate Atmos, especially if the resources are allocated intelligently.

Quote:
If down the road you want to dump your 7.1 Receiver/AMP for an ATMOS one, and add more speakers that's a difference story. The value in doing so however will be highly subjective. For the average person, it probably won't be worth it.
Wow. I thought everything about the home theater was highly subjective.

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post #55 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 02:37 PM
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"Budget" does not have to mean small. There can also be budgets that are well able to accommodate Atmos, especially if the resources are allocated intelligently.

Wow. I thought everything about the home theater was highly subjective.
Well you're wrong. Some things are clearly better than others. Like 480p vs 1080p for instance. But then other things are subjective. Like small variations in bluray rips.

No, budget doesn't mean small, just know the average person doesn't have $30,000+ to spend purely on audio. And even if they did, they might now have the space for it. Because, again, not everybody lives in McMansions.

People need to understand that there are members on these forums who enjoy media hobbyists/enthusiasts, while still liking to retain practicality. The ultra high end isn't for everyone.

Which brings me to my ultimate point. Many budgets can support ATMOS, but at the cost of sacrificing something. If your budget is $5,000 for instance, it might be wiser to get the best 7 speakers money can buy (or even 5 depending on your space), than spreading that budget over 11+ speakers.

Last edited by aftcomet; 08-02-2014 at 02:41 PM.
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post #56 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 03:10 PM
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Well you're wrong. Some things are clearly better than others. Like 480p vs 1080p for instance.
Thank you for making my point.

Quote:
No, budget doesn't mean small, just know the average person doesn't have $30,000+ to spend purely on audio. And even if they did, they might now have the space for it. Because, again, not everybody lives in McMansions.
That's why each person should make their own decisions, and not take your own narrow view of what is sonically important to heart.

Quote:
People need to understand that there are members on these forums who enjoy media hobbyists/enthusiasts, while still liking to retain practicality. The ultra high end isn't for everyone.
Neither is HTiB. Does something so obvious really require stating to anyone who participates around here?

Quote:
Which brings me to my ultimate point. Many budgets can support ATMOS, but at the cost of sacrificing something. If your budget is $5,000 for instance, it might be wiser to get the best 7 speakers money can buy (or even 5 depending on your space), than spreading that budget over 11+ speakers.
We agree that everyone has to decide how to best utilize their resources. What's the wisest path for any given person is, well, subjective.

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Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #57 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 03:44 PM
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Thank you for making my point.

That's why each person should make their own decisions, and not take your own narrow view of what is sonically important to heart.

Neither is HTiB. Does something so obvious really require stating to anyone who participates around here?

We agree that everyone has to decide how to best utilize their resources. What's the wisest path for any given person is, well, subjective.
If you're looking for a nerd battle look elsewhere. I will say though that you're a prime example of someone who abuses the strawman argument. Comparing SD to HD is not the same as comparing 320kbps MP3 to FLAC. But whatever.
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post #58 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 03:49 PM
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If Atmos firmware for activation isn't till December, we're running into Jan. CES and new model announcements?

Seems to me Spring of 2015 is the time to jump in, am i right or am i right?
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post #59 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftcomet View Post
That budget is better put to use getting the best 7.1 setup than planning for ATMOS and spreading the speaker budget thin.
So irrespective of the size of the budget, you would put all that money towards a 7.1 set-up and not do height speakers for Atmos.
Quote:
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Now what would I do? Leave my system as is.
OK, that kinda answers my question. I was wondering what you would do with additional funds: use it to have a better 7.1 system or add height speakers. From your answers, seems you don't believe in going beyond 7 speakers.

Sanjay
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post #60 of 92 Old 08-02-2014, 06:40 PM
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So irrespective of the size of the budget, you would put all that money towards a 7.1 set-up and not do height speakers for Atmos. OK, that kinda answers my question. I was wondering what you would do with additional funds: use it to have a better 7.1 system or add height speakers. From your answers, seems you don't believe in going beyond 7 speakers.
Yup, that's my perspective. However, if gaming and movies start being mixed in 9.2/11.2 I won't hesitate to upgrade. But right now, all that we can rely on is processing done by our receivers to get the most use out of the additions.
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