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post #31 of 126 Old 08-22-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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The wall with the TV in that picture is already there, and the room behind that wall is storage/water heater, etc., so it's not really space for living. It's possible I could push the wall back some and make the other area larger, but only 3 or 4 feet I think. A lounge is kind of what I was thinking for that room (albeit a little one). I kind of just threw things together in there to make a quick render. All I know for sure that I would put in there is a fridge and my popcorn machine. I have to leave the corner by the windows uncluttered too since that is where the breaker box is.

How hard is it to have an interior door that slides open (like into the wall)? Say, if that was an 8" deep wall. That way the spaces could be open to each other without a door being open and in the way.
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post #32 of 126 Old 08-22-2014, 07:24 PM
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If you are referring to a pocket door...not hard at all, but it will be a bit challenging to isolate it if you are isolating the room.

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post #33 of 126 Old 08-23-2014, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, a pocket door is what I mean. Thanks for giving me the name of what it's called. I am not sure on isolation. I'd love to, but I don't know if the budget will allow considering I don't plan to do much of the work myself.
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post #34 of 126 Old 08-23-2014, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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So, here are a few pics of the room I took a while back when I had my original plan to have the theater going the one direction, before the bar idea and all of that.









Of course the plan has changed since then.

I have had my projector (Panasonic AE8000U) for about two weeks now. I finally opened it up today to try it out a bit and because I need to get going with the rebate for it. I took a picture with my girlfriend's daughter on the wall where the screen will be. The size I had taped out, poorly, on the wall (not the same wall as the picture above) is approximately 140" diagnoal, scope. So...yeah, my theater officially has one piece now. You can also see a little off to the right where I had started tearing out some of the ceiling (demo is some of the DIY I'm okay with).

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post #35 of 126 Old 08-24-2014, 06:38 AM
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Nice space. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

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post #36 of 126 Old 08-24-2014, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Mike. I am eager to get started, but things seem to be taking forever


What do you guys think takes priority if you can do only one, soumd isolation or room treatment design?
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post #37 of 126 Old 08-25-2014, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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My biggest concern with sound isolation would be sound coming into the theater from overhead, and from the adjacent utility room. What would be the best ways to tackle that without going full out sound isolation for the entire room? If I did staggered stud method on the wall that was to be built (which I may just rebuild the whole thing all the way back to the stairs), would that do much to help with the sound from the utility room? What would be my best bet for the ceiling (height is now 7'9").

I'm not too worried about the sound leaving the theater.
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post #38 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 05:36 AM
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I'm clearly in the minority here, but I LOVE that concession stand/bar sketch-up design. I find it pretty hard to believe that if instead of a curtain, you were to put in something similar to vertical blinds, only with thick 'slats' made of wood or something like that, that would be irreparably damaging to the acoustics of the room. And even if you did go with a curtain, you could use a VERY heavy 1, even 1 of those lead curtains maybe, like they use in hospitals. That's GOTTA be as close to a liquid wall as you can get. Might rip your ceiling down sure, but hey, we're just spit ballin here, right? NO problem is unsolveable and I LOVE the idea of keeping that bar.

Can you imagine the POW factor of that? Sitting there watching a movie, a guest leans over and goes, "Got any snacks?" You very casually go, "I dunno, lemme check." then hit a button on your remote and *POW* slats in the wall turn 90 degrees then slide aside to reveal a full bar/concession stand complete with popcorn machine, soda fountain, candy case, booze, TV's - are you kidding me?!?! No one would even NOTICE a change in the acoustics, they'd be too busy picking their jaws up off the floor and trying to put their eyeballs back in their head!

Watch some old re-runs of Let's Make A Deal, on some episodes they had walls like vertical blinds, so it can be done.
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post #39 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Okay, as I mentioned I changed the design a little bit, but there's a cost.

This is the updated layout that I'm looking at:



As you can see, there is a bar area to the right of the screen. In theory it would look a little something like this when finished:







Now, the current plan is to have a curtain pulled in front of the bar area when there is dedicated movie watching (and not an excess number of people):



This is pure brilliance! Failure to find a way to pull this off would be a tragedy and a crime against nature, not to mention home theaters everywhere!
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post #40 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 06:22 AM
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Might be a minority of 1...


If you did the second row as bar seating, you could get a more compact seating arrangement.
And if you treated the HVAC soffit as the screen soffit, then perhaps something like this, is
a possibility.
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post #41 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Might be a minority of 1...
You know Einstein flunked math, right?

I have no fear of standing alone, being the sole voice of reason in an cacophony of mediocrity. The single ray of light in a room full of darkness, The only shield in a room full of swords. You get the idea.

To quote Dom DeLuise in 1 of my fav movies, "It's lonely at the top of Olympus."
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post #42 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha, domz, I totally understand where you're coming from. I think it would be pretty awesome like that as well...however, the bar doesn't really mean much to me except as extra seating during big gatherings. I'm more torn up about losing the extra TV for sports viewing. But having a great theater is my priority, and that's what I'll work my plans around.
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post #43 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 12:01 PM
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Can't say I am a fan of off-center seating and no symmetrical reflective side walls
for the front three channels.


Maybe there's a good reason that the top of Mt Olympus isn't crowded...
And math should play a role in a home theater design.


Could we have a layout of the furnace room?


You mention packing them in, have you considered how hot and stuffy that space will become, with a
crowd in there? You will need to address creature comfort.
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post #44 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Haha, domz, ...
Well, at least I was able to make you laugh, and for me, that's more than enough. My self appointed role as the AVS's resident comedian has once again been fulfilled! Carry on about your day good citizen, confident in the knowledge that I am on job, and will occasionally be here to protect you from the terror of that most insidious of plagues to ever darken the green glue bucket of even the most stalwart of home theater-ers(hey, look at that, I made up a word!) - the loss of the ability to giggle daily!

Knock knock and awayyyyy *cue cheezy superman flying sound byte*

I will now crawl(fly) away and lament the loss of what could have been a 20kiloton *POW* factor *sniffle* *sniffle* *lip quiver*

me? drink? naaaaaaaa...
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post #45 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well don't I feel like an idiot. Apparently I measured my room a little wrong when I first started, so my length is more like 23 feet instead of 24. That means I'll either end up sitting a little closer to the screen, or the space behind the back row of seating will be a little tighter. Or maybe a little bit of both. Ah well, that's the price of losing two extra feet to the false wall. It'll be worth it. Losing this much space does give me concerns about my ability to do sound isolation.

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post #46 of 126 Old 08-26-2014, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Can't say I am a fan of off-center seating and no symmetrical reflective side walls
for the front three channels.


Maybe there's a good reason that the top of Mt Olympus isn't crowded...
And math should play a role in a home theater design.


Could we have a layout of the furnace room?


You mention packing them in, have you considered how hot and stuffy that space will become, with a
crowd in there? You will need to address creature comfort.
Well, I don't think I'll be packing them in very often, and even then it's not going to be a ton of people, that's why I don't mind losing the bar. Here is a layout with some of the utility room filled in:



There is an I-beam that goes across that room and the one next to it. There is a support pole in the utility room next to the wall to the other room. The foundation wall has some shelving on it as well. I may be able to widen the theater room by 5 inches if I move the wall in towards the furnace. I don't think that would be worth the effort unless I did sound isolation and needed the extra room.
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post #47 of 126 Old 08-27-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe there's a good reason that the top of Mt Olympus isn't crowded...
There DEFINITELY is a good reason, but you wouldn't understand it. It's a god thing.

Devine influence aside, free will reigns supreme, as does the golden rule; it's ChldsPlay's gold, so he makes the rules. He says the bar is out, then the bar is out. End of story.
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post #48 of 126 Old 08-27-2014, 10:24 AM
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I asked about the furnace room wondering if there was room to have a shallow U shaped panel, for
a couple of flat screen hdtvs. The sliding panel could be gasketted at the ends, to keep furnace room
noise out of the theater.


And since sports are 16x9, maybe a removable bottom masking panel would allow for taller 16x9 image with
a pair of stacked flat panel hdtvs slid into the room, but still let you have a large scope image setup.


Now you put the bar outside the room, and avoid oils from the popcorn maker ruining your screen. You also put
highly reflective surfaces like those marquees outside the room. You still get the bling, but avoid the performance hit.
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post #49 of 126 Old 08-27-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
I asked about the furnace room wondering if there was room to have a shallow U shaped panel, for
a couple of flat screen hdtvs. The sliding panel could be gasketted at the ends, to keep furnace room
noise out of the theater.


And since sports are 16x9, maybe a removable bottom masking panel would allow for taller 16x9 image with
a pair of stacked flat panel hdtvs slid into the room, but still let you have a large scope image setup.


Now you put the bar outside the room, and avoid oils from the popcorn maker ruining your screen. You also put
highly reflective surfaces like those marquees outside the room. You still get the bling, but avoid the performance hit.
That's an interesting idea. My screen will only leave about 12" on either side when scope. I just checked, and I would have just about 30" per side when masked to 16:9. I know one TV would be able to work in that space, but the 2nd one I think may be too wide.
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post #50 of 126 Old 08-27-2014, 06:58 PM
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Two hdtv's would need to be vertically stacked, one atop the other.
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post #51 of 126 Old 08-27-2014, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I know. One of my TVs is 27" wide, but I think the other is over 30" as it has a thicker bevel.
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post #52 of 126 Old 08-28-2014, 04:59 AM
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If you are after a unified look, then brand new 27-30" hdtv flat screens are pretty cheap these days.


And you can relocate the existing sets to another area, or simply sell them off, to recoup some budget.
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post #53 of 126 Old 08-28-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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If you are after a unified look, then brand new 27-30" hdtv flat screens are pretty cheap these days.


And you can relocate the existing sets to another area, or simply sell them off, to recoup some budget.
Ha! I am sure the girlfriend would love to hear that. More TVs! We have 4 now, 3 of which are collecting dust at the moment. Granted 2 were just sitting waiting for the basement to be finished.
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post #54 of 126 Old 08-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Now seeing the layout of the furnace room, I'll reiterate my suggestion to rotate the theater 90 degrees clockwise. Incorporate the beam/duct as part of a ceiling and soffit detail, move in the furnace room wall to gain width if needed. Cover the windows and make a nice screen wall.

The benefit of doing that is that you can then place your casual bar/seating area at the landing, so you don't have the stairs to contend with in terms of soundproofing or flow through the basement floorplan. Much more natural to land in an open area, with the theater closed off beyond - rather than land in the theater and move through to the casual space...

At least give that a quick scribble to see what issues it raises. Moving the furnace room wall shouldn't be a big deal, especially if you can see behind it (unfinished) now to know what's in there that could cause problems...

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post #55 of 126 Old 08-28-2014, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Now seeing the layout of the furnace room, I'll reiterate my suggestion to rotate the theater 90 degrees clockwise. Incorporate the beam/duct as part of a ceiling and soffit detail, move in the furnace room wall to gain width if needed. Cover the windows and make a nice screen wall.

The benefit of doing that is that you can then place your casual bar/seating area at the landing, so you don't have the stairs to contend with in terms of soundproofing or flow through the basement floorplan. Much more natural to land in an open area, with the theater closed off beyond - rather than land in the theater and move through to the casual space...

At least give that a quick scribble to see what issues it raises. Moving the furnace room wall shouldn't be a big deal, especially if you can see behind it (unfinished) now to know what's in there that could cause problems...

Jeff
I will look at it again tonight, but I do think there are some pipes and such that drop lower from the ceiling close to the wall that would have to be moved. And there is a support pole under the beam right along the wall. I'm not sure how difficult it is for any of that to be moved. My only other concern with that would be how much it would impact my available screen size with a lower soffit up front, and limiting the seating.

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post #56 of 126 Old 08-28-2014, 11:23 AM
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I took that extra 5" of width from the furnace room, for a short section of wall, on my last drawing.


So sell three tvs and buy two matching tvs... Call them a mistake and move on. You have a $40K budget.
Design right and you can start to shave costs elsewhere.


Or just do a single hdtv on the sliding panel to start with, but make the panel full height, so you have the option
of a future upgrade to a pair of hdtvs.
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post #57 of 126 Old 08-31-2014, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I took that extra 5" of width from the furnace room, for a short section of wall, on my last drawing.


So sell three tvs and buy two matching tvs... Call them a mistake and move on. You have a $40K budget.
Design right and you can start to shave costs elsewhere.


Or just do a single hdtv on the sliding panel to start with, but make the panel full height, so you have the option
of a future upgrade to a pair of hdtvs.
Oh, the 40k budget sounds high I know, but this is not going to be a DIY, so it will go bye bye very quickly. It's already going to be between 15-20k for equipment and seating. Then I have construction, installation, automation, etc. for the rest. One extra TV is fine, and if I have to, I will just drag it in when needed.

It appears I was smoking something when I went to measure my room initially. Not only was I a foot off on the one length, I was also a couple inches short on the ceiling. That means I have even less headroom now, and unless I can completely rearrange the ducting to eliminate the soffit at the back of the room, I don't see soundproofing being a real option because of the extra headroom it will eat up.
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post #58 of 126 Old 09-02-2014, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, after discovering my measuring error, and speaking with Ted White, I think I'm going to skip on the sound isolation. It just doesn't seem like it is very feasible with the space, and probably not with the budget either. I think things are really going to get moving here shortly as the design process is going to be ending shortly, and I can get started on some demo. I have some questions I am a little unclear on.

I know I need a dedicated circuit for most of the equipment, but I also think I may need a couple more circuits to power my amps. How difficult should this be to do? This is in a basement and the breaker box is right there. Most, if not all, of the ceiling will be taken down. Also, what kind of power conditioning is necessary? I have a UPS from monoprice that is a few years old, will that be sufficient?

As far as zone lighting, is this something that electricians usually handle? Is this something someone can easily setup with existing lights, or something that should be integrated during the installation of the lighting?

If I'm not doing sound isolation, is having a gap between the stage and wall important?

Do people generally make the soffit above the stage curved? Like to match the curve of the step below?

How do the fabricmate systems work? Are they cost effective or worth the money (I have no idea how much they cost either)?

What kind of acoustically transparent material is good for under the screen (for ported subwoofers)?

How secure are pocket doors? Would they rattle a lot?

I've wired up my 7.1 system at my last home no problem, but that was just a living room (using an unfinished basement underneath to run wires). Are there special considerations for a project this size? I know a lot of people use conduit, but I'm still just running wires to 7 speaker locations, and 2 subs right (plus prewire for 4 atmos speakers)?

Can control systems such as RTI or control 4 be added after the fact, or is that something that should also be setup during the build?
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post #59 of 126 Old 09-06-2014, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Still working things out, but I started some real demo today. Gotta make sure I know everything I'm dealing with.

This is going down the stairs to where the theater will be:



That little jut out from the wall at the bottom of the stairs has me worried, because I plan to wall off the opening and put a door in. I am not sure I can meet code with that section sticking out. I had to poke some holes to see what was back there. Not sure I can do much with this pipe. I suppose I could push the wall I build out a little, but I would hate to lose the inches Maybe leave the door off the hinges for inspection?





Started taking down more of the ceiling.





Here's a shot of where the bar area was going to be. The blue tape running up the wall (and on the floor under the tarp) is where I was going to build the wall behind the bar.





Now some shots of the utility room. I'm hoping to move some the ducting that's going into the back of the theater (seen in the first pic below) and be able to move the wall in to the beam.









Hoping things start moving forward a lot more soon.
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post #60 of 126 Old 09-08-2014, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I am concerned about the area under the stairs. I plan to extend the wall and put a doorway there to enter the theater. The problem is, I am worried about my ability to get anything of any size in or out of the basement. Now, ideally I wouldn't need to, but you never know. Any suggestions? Someone suggested a barn door, but I worry about acoustics, and there will be back speakers on the wall there too.




Last edited by ChldsPlay; 09-11-2014 at 08:11 AM.
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Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

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