Theater Design/Build Under Suspended Slab Garage - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 128 Old 09-22-2014, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Any idea what the extra cost of the theater below the garage cost you in terms of concrete pour and excavation costs ?
The suspended slab room with standard 9' walls to match the rest of the foundation was $8,715 total. The cost to go down another 3' to 12' walls in that room was $5,590. So the total price to do the room is $14,305. That includes all excavation, precast systems, and concrete pour. I didn't get an itemized breakdown of the upgrade. I would recommend doing at least a 2' drop for anyone considering this upgrade.
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post #32 of 128 Old 09-22-2014, 01:18 PM
 
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I'm trying to get a comparison against a normal garage with a room above it. I'm going up with mine, because going down costs more $$$.

I like your project, I will be following along. I'm Jelly!
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post #33 of 128 Old 09-22-2014, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to get a comparison against a normal garage with a room above it. I'm going up with mine, because going down costs more $$$.

I like your project, I will be following along. I'm Jelly!
Thank you! I hope it turns out as planned. My wife makes fun of me over how focused I am with the details of this room. Hopefully it pays off!

We also did a 377 sq foot bonus room above the garage and that added approx $16,000 to the cost of our construction but it will be completely finished. Considering the bonus room above the garage has sloped ceilings and are only 8 ft at its tallest point, I think the $14,000 on the 650 sq foot of 10.5' ceilings below the garage was better spent $$ for a more ideal home theater environment. Our bonus room will be the room we send our kids to play without having to worry about it always being clean.
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post #34 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 07:16 AM
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That seems like a pretty reasonable cost for a good size room. Thank you for posting those details. We've been looking into this option for our new build but haven't come across a lot of solid estimates for cost. Couple questions, how are you/your builder handling water proofing from above? Also, is your area wet enough to require a separate sump system and how are you handling that?

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post #35 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Couple questions, how are you/your builder handling water proofing from above? Also, is your area wet enough to require a separate sump system and how are you handling that?
1. Waterproofing is handled by the precast subcontractor my builder is using. They supposedly use waterproof tar and a gasket system to keep moisture from getting down there. I also plan on doing a full epoxy underlayment to seal the garage floor above. I'll make sure to ask more questions around that when it comes closer to install the spandeck.

2. My neighborhood doesn't have any water issues. My builder wanted to make sure there isn't any water issues. He said he would dig a section of the 12 foot hole first and wait 24 hours to see if any moisture was present. 24 hours later it was bone dry despite it being a very wet August and September here. My neighborhood is on a slight slope and the soil has quite a bit of sand in it so it drains very well. If I lived in a place that had water table issues I would consider not doing this project or doing a discrete sump pump in a corner of the room. Probably the latter of the two...
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post #36 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 09:31 AM
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I was originally planning on a Epson 5030/6030, but when I read through this forum enough... I decided I wanted a 2.35:1 screen. As such, I then learned that one 'less expensive' way to do that - is via Automated Lens Zoom vs the Anamporphic sleds. The 'zoom' processes loses a little light output, but even with an AT screen - given your screen size you should be okay.

I am still building, but haven't decided on a projector yet... a JVC DLA49/4910; Panasonic AE-8000, or swing for the fences and get the Epson LS10000 when it comes out... all have Automated Zoom lenses. So, to watch a 16:9 vs 235:1 movie, you press a button and adjusts the lens.

I am fairly sure the 5030/ and 6030 models are the same - with exception of Color, Warranty, and a few 'extras' (like extra bulb) thrown in with the 6030. 6030s are only sold through 'dealers' vs the 5030s are available more places.

I would definitely talk with Ted White at The Soundproofing Company regarding the concrete ceiling. Given the 'garage' is above, the sound transference concerns will likely be through transference/flanking from there to other areas, which I don't know how big of a concern that would be. In terms of the 2x8/ 2x10 - that is simply span requirements with the weight of drywall - not even really 'carrying' loads. 2x6 or 2x4 couldn't span 22' safely. Not sure if there would be an option to use a 2x4 or 2x6, and 'support' that to the concrete floor above with IB-3 type clips from the Soundproofing company. That would provide periodic mid-span supports, but I don't know enough about the load bearing to know if that is sufficient.

Looks like a nice build you'll have!
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post #37 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 09:36 AM
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TOur bonus room will be the room we send our kids to play without having to worry about it always being clean.
My wife thought she wouldn't worry about our bonus room being clean, but it drives her nuts when she sees it. We left ours relatively 'open' to our 2 Story Great room and to the stairs going up, so, you see it easily, particularly when walking up stairs. We had the option of making it a largely enclosed room - looking back, I think I would have closed it in, less sound transference and less visible. At times if the kids are watching a show up there, and we are in the great room watching a show - the tv sounds 'fight'...
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post #38 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I was originally planning on a Epson 5030/6030, but when I read through this forum enough... I decided I wanted a 2.35:1 screen. As such, I then learned that one 'less expensive' way to do that - is via Automated Lens Zoom vs the Anamporphic sleds. The 'zoom' processes loses a little light output, but even with an AT screen - given your screen size you should be okay.

I am still building, but haven't decided on a projector yet... a JVC DLA49/4910; Panasonic AE-8000, or swing for the fences and get the Epson LS10000 when it comes out... all have Automated Zoom lenses. So, to watch a 16:9 vs 235:1 movie, you press a button and adjusts the lens.

I am fairly sure the 5030/ and 6030 models are the same - with exception of Color, Warranty, and a few 'extras' (like extra bulb) thrown in with the 6030. 6030s are only sold through 'dealers' vs the 5030s are available more places.

I would definitely talk with Ted White at The Soundproofing Company regarding the concrete ceiling. Given the 'garage' is above, the sound transference concerns will likely be through transference/flanking from there to other areas, which I don't know how big of a concern that would be. In terms of the 2x8/ 2x10 - that is simply span requirements with the weight of drywall - not even really 'carrying' loads. 2x6 or 2x4 couldn't span 22' safely. Not sure if there would be an option to use a 2x4 or 2x6, and 'support' that to the concrete floor above with IB-3 type clips from the Soundproofing company. That would provide periodic mid-span supports, but I don't know enough about the load bearing to know if that is sufficient.

Looks like a nice build you'll have!
Thanks Kevin. That is great to know. I will definitely be giving Ted a call when it comes time to soundproof. I don't need it to be sound-tight but would want be willing to spend some money to do a job that would provide some noticeable difference. I still don't know exactly what I am going to do with the doors going in. I would really like a set of solid core stain grade french doors. With some weather stripping and dampeners I think it could do a good job and the aesthetics are top notch as well.
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post #39 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I was originally planning on a Epson 5030/6030, but when I read through this forum enough... I decided I wanted a 2.35:1 screen...
I'm still undecided on 16:9 vs 2.35:1. The amount of 16:9 content I watch far outweighs anamorphic content. We have a lot of shows and sports that we would watch in this room. If I were to go with a 130" anamorphic screen that would only give me approx 100" diagonal screen for 16:9 content.

I can get a really nice 145 or 160" fixed AT screen for a very good price which would give me a very sizable viewing area for 2.35:1

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post #40 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 10:31 AM
 
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Go with poor man masking, where you snug fit or magnet fit side panels onto 235:1 to make it 16x9.
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post #41 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Go with poor man masking, where you snug fit or magnet fit side panels onto 235:1 to make it 16x9.
Love it... not a bad idea at all. Couldn't I also convert a 16:9 screen to 2.35:1 but doing the panels on the top and bottom?
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post #42 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 11:05 AM
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Love it... not a bad idea at all. Couldn't I also convert a 16:9 screen to 2.35:1 but doing the panels on the top and bottom?
You could mask top & bottom as well.. or instead. I am kind of thinking a 11'-12' wide screen and maxing my height, to then maximize either 16:9 or 2.35:1 viewing. That then likely requires either dark screen/bars, or masking capability on both sides & top. My tentative plan, which I haven't really developed much at all yet, is to figure out a hinge based approach.... where I could 'swing' the panels up/down or in/out to mask both directions.
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post #43 of 128 Old 09-23-2014, 11:08 AM
 
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I think you'd want the bigger picture for movies, right ?
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post #44 of 128 Old 09-29-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you'd want the bigger picture for movies, right ?
That's the idea!

I'm having some heartburn on 16:9 and 2.35:1 this week. Luckily that will be one of the last things I decide on. I had the chance to stop by dhendrickson's theater last week here in Utah and I gotta say, I was impressed. My big take away from my visit (other than his awesome Control4 setup) was getting a hand's on with Dragonfly's AT Acousitweave screen. It's a great AT screen. I'm sold! It also helped that he had an Epson 4030 to check out since I'm looking at the 5030 or 6030.

We are a way's off of screen and projector selection but I'm leaning towards their 145" AT screen. It would still give me a 126" wide anamorphic image. They also have 110, 120, 133, and 160" versions. I think the 160" pushes my front row too far back and I feel the others don't give my second row a big enough picture. With that 145" 16:9 screen my front row viewing distance will be about 12' (1.2x screen width), second row will be 19'.

Walls were poured last week!!! Awesome to see this room taking shape. The lip that the spandeck will rest on is about 8" above that back door. I ultimately decided on the 3' drop to give me true 10' ceilings to work with. You can see the utility access in the block out in the left side of the picture. They are going to bury 8" vinyl coated HVAC ducts and a conduit for electricity/networking. The HVAC and wiring will all run under the rear subfloor. Damp proofing, flatwork, and potentially spandeck installation are all set for this week.

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post #45 of 128 Old 09-29-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I've updated the design and I'd love some input around rack access and distance from bar to steps.

I am beginning to think that rear access to the rack isn't going to very feasible in my setup since the wall behind the rack is concrete. I had rear rack access in my last home theater and it was extremely handy... would I be ok with out it this time? Anyone with foundation experience know if I could I cut a rectangle the shape of the rack out of the foundation wall without compromising structural integrity? Not ideal since that would be another soundproofing point of weakness.

Here is where I am at. 145" screen. 12'6" first row viewing distance. 19'6" second row. 18" riser to second row. 18" rise to entry doors. **Only 2'6" from the bottom of the entry steps to the bar. Problem?

I'd love some design ideas to obtain rear access to the rack while still maintaining some good symmetry in the room.



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post #46 of 128 Old 09-29-2014, 11:03 AM
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If at all possible, I'd place the rack outside your room. You can easily control everything by way of either IR extenders or control systems like IRule or Contol4, Savant, etc.

If that isn't possible, you are going to need to invest in an Middle Atlantic AXS rack. They're nice, but $$$.

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post #47 of 128 Old 09-29-2014, 11:07 AM
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Slide out rack??

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post #48 of 128 Old 09-29-2014, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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If at all possible, I'd place the rack outside your room. You can easily control everything by way of either IR extenders or control systems like IRule or Contol4, Savant, etc.

If that isn't possible, you are going to need to invest in an Middle Atlantic AXS rack. They're nice, but $$$.
You have me thinking about doing the rack in another room... It would definitely clean up the space. I have a Harmony 900 RF Remote now and that signal isn't going to go through concrete. IR Extenders should work great though. I don't watch discs very much either everything is ripped onto my media server. I think this solves it.

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If I decide to go in-room this is what I'm going to do.

Thanks guys!

I'm going to make sure my builder does 2 runs of conduit to adjacent rooms so I decide on where to put it later.
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post #49 of 128 Old 10-04-2014, 12:12 PM
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Make sure it's big conduit too. Like 4" conduit.
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post #50 of 128 Old 10-06-2014, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Make sure it's big conduit too. Like 4" conduit.
Double 4" Conduit - Check! One for low voltage (HDMI, Cat5, speaker) and one for electrical. I have no experience on this but I'd imagine that having them separate may eliminate some potential A/V interference from the electrical.


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post #51 of 128 Old 10-10-2014, 05:00 PM
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It's also a NEC code requirement to separate low voltage from high voltage power circuits, IIRC
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post #52 of 128 Old 10-10-2014, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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There you go. That solves that then
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post #53 of 128 Old 10-12-2014, 12:03 PM
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Subscribed! This looks like an interesting build. I love the big projects like yours.

I think I'm a little late on the 2.35 or 1.78 debate but I'm chiming in anyways. I just finished my build and I decided on a 2.40 screen from SeymourAV. If I could go back and change it I would. I guess I could change it still so maybe I should rephrase it and say, if I could change it cheaply, I would. I watch a ton of sports and a lot of HBO. I watch a lot of movies too but one thing that is annoying is if you watch a movie with any subtitles at all, they are cut off on a 2.40 or 2.35 screen. These studios apparently think it's a good idea to put the subtitles in the black bar region of the movie instead of the actual picture. I'm assuming that's because most people don't have CinemaScope screens. It's really annoying. I watched Monuments Men yesterday, which is a 2.40 movie, and there are many scenes where the characters are speaking French or German and there are subtitles of course. Well, you can't see them unless you switch back to 1.78. Remember, subtitles aren't just in foreign films, which I don't watch. They're in a bunch of movies. My dream setup would be a big ass 16:9 AT screen with Carada horizontal masking. The masking system isn't AT but for the horizontal masking you wouldn't need it to be because it shouldn't get in the way of your LCR's.
Now, if you decide to go with scope, I will say that it looks better than a 16:9 for the most part.
The last thing I will say about scope vs. 16:9, is stay away from zooming! The projector can indeed zoom out to fill the scope screen but I've never found it to be exact. After the projector automatically zooms, in my experience, many times you will still have to adjust the lens with the remote because it will be a few inches off center or a little high, etc. etc. The best way to do CIH without an anamorphic lens, is to use a Lumagen Radiance. It's an extra $1500 expense but you won't have to use lens memory, which means you won't be limited in your selection of projectors. Not to mention, you can then have your Lumagen calibrated which will provide you with an absolutely flawless picture.

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post #54 of 128 Old 02-26-2015, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thought I would give a quick update. Funny how when you are planning and starting a house you think that these projects are going to come to fruition a lot sooner than reality. We are now almost 6 months into the build and nearing completion. Estimated move in is next month. I also started get strands of gray hair... and my life expectancy has also been reduced by 4 years... so there's that.

I've spent some more time planning the theater out. The pictures give you a good idea of what we have planned.

Couple of things that might cause issues... I'm planning on having the media rack outside the room. This will include my Xbox One among other things. The IR repeater will give me access to everything else just fine but I am concerned that the Wireless Xbox Controller's signal will have a hard time getting out of the concrete shell of the theater. The media rack will be just on the other side of the concrete on one wall. Anyone with experience around this? I'm thinking of testing once we move in the unfinished area...

[IMG][/IMG]

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post #55 of 128 Old 02-26-2015, 07:22 PM
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Could you add a little "mini-rack" under/in the bar to house the game consoles and run then just run the HDMI back to the receiver through a conduit?

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post #56 of 128 Old 02-26-2015, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Could you add a little "mini-rack" under/in the bar to house the game consoles and run then just run the HDMI back to the receiver through a conduit?
^^^ THAT! ... is a great idea... I hadn't thought about that!
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post #57 of 128 Old 02-26-2015, 08:56 PM
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Looking good -- that will be a great room!

One thing I would change is the amount of dudes in the room though. And what's up with most of them being identical; I think I see a set of twins and possibly triplets as well. Looks like a sausage fest in there...get rid of the dudes and get more chicks!!!

Keep us updated. I will be starting a new home build with a suspended slab HT in the next month or so and am keenly interested in seeing your project progress! I'm in MT and there are no precast slab dealers in the state...the closest is Spokane, WA 400 miles away. As it seems to be fairly popular in UT, I made a few attempts at contacting Hansen but they would not get back to me. Stefan at Arnoldsen Precast did get back to me and has answered every question thus far. I asked for a 32' x 20' quote and he said $9592 delivered (this to a location 450 miles away!), installed, and grouted...I pay for the 60-ton crane rental and waterproofing/topcoat of mud. He also said the whole 36' x 32' under garage area would be $14,866...tempted to do it, but the house has already grown to nearly 6000 sq.ft. and it's getting a bit silly. Stefan said any dimension over 30' requires 10" plank that is $2/sq.ft. more expensive, so I'll probably just scale it down to 30' x 20' for the most cost effective use of the product and reduce the plank cost to closer to $8k.
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post #58 of 128 Old 02-26-2015, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking good -- that will be a great room!

One thing I would change is the amount of dudes in the room though. And what's up with most of them being identical; I think I see a set of twins and possibly triplets as well. Looks like a sausage fest in there...get rid of the dudes and get more chicks!!!

Keep us updated. I will be starting a new home build with a suspended slab HT in the next month or so and am keenly interested in seeing your project progress! I'm in MT and there are no precast slab dealers in the state...the closest is Spokane, WA 400 miles away. As it seems to be fairly popular in UT, I made a few attempts at contacting Hansen but they would not get back to me. Stefan at Arnoldsen Precast did get back to me and has answered every question thus far. I asked for a 32' x 20' quote and he said $9592 delivered (this to a location 450 miles away!), installed, and grouted...I pay for the 60-ton crane rental and waterproofing/topcoat of mud. He also said the whole 36' x 32' under garage area would be $14,866...tempted to do it, but the house has already grown to nearly 6000 sq.ft. and it's getting a bit silly. Stefan said any dimension over 30' requires 10" plank that is $2/sq.ft. more expensive, so I'll probably just scale it down to 30' x 20' for the most cost effective use of the product and reduce the plank cost to closer to $8k.
Nice! Even though Hansen did my precase I've spoken to Stefan several times about framing ideas on the phone. He is awesome and extremely helpful. 30x20 is the size of mine and I think its a great size room. You'll want to drop the room down a few feet and run the conduit and air supply under slab if you can. Good luck and keep me posted!
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post #59 of 128 Old 07-06-2015, 08:01 AM
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Any updates?

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post #60 of 128 Old 05-25-2016, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BllDo View Post
Any updates?
Just passed the 1 year mark since moving into our house and unfortunately haven't made a dent in the build-out yet. My family has been relocated to the UK recently so my brother in law and his family are living in the house.

The pre-planning information gathering on AVS and on this post was crucial in planning the concrete shell of the room. THANK YOU!

As it stands, my 3D rendered plan a few posts up with Gandalf on the screen is still the general plan. Anticipated start date is most likely about 1 year away. I CANNOT wait to get going...

So a question for you all... In my mind I am hoping to spend about $10k-$15k on this build. I have a connection from SnapAV that will help out loads. Is $10k-$15 going to be enough? Tell me where my budgeting is off...

$2,000 projector (Epson 5030 or similar... hopefully more affordable 4k using TI's new DLP chip will be out by then in this price range)
$2,000 for 160" AT screen and Speakers (SnapAV)
$1,500 for Receiver, additional amps, cables, rack, misc networking and AV (SnapAV)
$2,500 seating (SofaMart "The Cloud" - already have one row of this from my previous multipurpose Home Theater)

This is where it gets cloudy... the build and labor costs. Tell me if I'm in the ballpark...

$1,000 ??? Framing (20x30x10 with 2 tiers and stage)
$500 ??? Wiring
$500 ??? Soundproofing
$1000 ??? Wiring and Lighting
$500 ??? Drywall
$1,500 ??? Paint and finish work
$1,000 Carpet
$1,000 Bar and Seating
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