Theater Design/Build Under Suspended Slab Garage - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 130 Old 09-25-2017, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Hey, congrats on making progress again, the framing is looking good!







We're looking at a move in the near future, and we might consider building new. This has me very seriously considering a suspended slab as well, and I'm doing my homework. Did these numbers end up being correct? It looks like ~$14k for a suspended 3 car garage, with 11' walls?


He ended up doing 12’ walls for $14k but yes that is correct. That gave us a concrete to concrete ceiling height of 10’3


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post #92 of 130 Old 09-25-2017, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Products to increase mounting depth?

My mounting depth in the ceiling will be 3 1/2 inches but the Atmos speakers I am getting have a mounting depth of 4 3/4 inches. I don't want to fir down the entire ceiling just for these speakers. I'm trying to think of a way to stylishly fir these speakers down. They are 6". I thought of creating a larger 1 1/2" 'disc' that the speakers would attach to similar to in the picture. Is there moulding or a product around that would accomplish this?

Edit - maybe something like this? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingho...3700/202191019
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post #93 of 130 Old 09-25-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Hey, congrats on making progress again, the framing is looking good!



We're looking at a move in the near future, and we might consider building new. This has me very seriously considering a suspended slab as well, and I'm doing my homework. Did these numbers end up being correct? It looks like ~$14k for a suspended 3 car garage, with 11' walls?
I priced out the prestressed concrete slabs and they were only like $7/ft delivered to the job site. This did NOT include the cost to crane the slabs off the truck and onto the concrete walls though. To me this seemed very cheap.
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post #94 of 130 Old 09-25-2017, 04:09 PM
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He ended up doing 12’ walls for $14k but yes that is correct. That gave us a concrete to concrete ceiling height of 10’3
Huh, wha?? Since when does math work that way?

Every builder I've talked to has talked about ceiling height, not tried to count the footer and upper ledge into the math. At that rate (1.75' subtracted), should my builders be telling me that I'm getting 10.75' walls, vs. the "standard 9' ceilings"? When I tell them I want it dropped another 3', I'm thinking 12' ceilings. Are you saying that you did that and it only gave you an actual usable height of 10'3"?
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post #95 of 130 Old 09-25-2017, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Huh, wha?? Since when does math work that way?

Every builder I've talked to has talked about ceiling height, not tried to count the footer and upper ledge into the math. At that rate (1.75' subtracted), should my builders be telling me that I'm getting 10.75' walls, vs. the "standard 9' ceilings"? When I tell them I want it dropped another 3', I'm thinking 12' ceilings. Are you saying that you did that and it only gave you an actual usable height of 10'3"?
Basements are tricky.... especially the garage. At least in Utah when you ask for '9 foot ceilings' in the basement, what that really means is you are getting 9 foot concrete forms. With the 4" slab, your effective ceiling height is 8'8". Same applies to the garage but even more so. I dropped the theater section down another 3 feet so that gave me 12 foot forms in the garage area.

Deductions:
-The poured slab on top of the spandeck requires 6" minimum at the rear of the garage to it can slope to 3" at the front of the garage.
-Spandeck is 8" thick.
-My builder required a 3" foundation lip at the back so water wouldn't enter basement in a worst case scenario
The poured slab in the theater floor is 4" thick.

So on a 12' form in an excavated garage area you lose 4"+8"+6"+3" which leaves us with a roughed-in finish of 10'3"

I would be very surprised if your builder truly means a 12' finished ceiling height. But I hope I'm wrong!!
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post #96 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 09:51 AM
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as any FYI, the current building code requires any concrete wall that is bearing a soil load and is over 10 ft to be engineered and will add additional cost. the difference in lateral pressure put on the middle of a concrete wall that is 8ft vs one that is 10ft is actually double.
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post #97 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
So on a 12' form in an excavated garage area you lose 4"+8"+6"+3" which leaves us with a roughed-in finish of 10'3"

I would be very surprised if your builder truly means a 12' finished ceiling height. But I hope I'm wrong!!
I think he understands you won't have a 12' ceiling. What he's saying is he thought you'd be around 10' 7" -ish. I actually have to agree with him. 10'8" is where I landed with my situation, which I thought was almost identical to yours.
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post #98 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:26 AM
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as any FYI, the current building code requires any concrete wall that is bearing a soil load and is over 10 ft to be engineered and will add additional cost. the difference in lateral pressure put on the middle of a concrete wall that is 8ft vs one that is 10ft is actually double.
Yup, it was an additional $4k to go 2 more feet for 14 foot walls for me. I didn't do it, and now I admit I wish I did. (Easy to spend money in hindsight though. lol)
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post #99 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I think he understands you won't have a 12' ceiling. What he's saying is he thought you'd be around 10' 7" -ish. I actually have to agree with him. 10'8" is where I landed with my situation, which I thought was almost identical to yours.


Genuinely curious- how can you get a 10’8” ceiling with a properly sloped garage slab? 4” base slab + 8” spandeck would only leave a 4” thick poured slab at rear of garage which I don’t think would be able to be sloped enough for water to leave the garage and still leave a thick enough slab at front of garage that wouldn’t crack to high heaven.
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post #100 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:36 AM
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Genuinely curious- how can you get a 10’8” ceiling with a properly sloped garage slab? 4” base slab + 8” spandeck would only leave a 4” thick poured slab at rear of garage which I don’t think would be able to be sloped enough for water to leave the garage and still leave a thick enough slab at front of garage that wouldn’t crack to high heaven.
1 - I re-read his post and you're right, he's thinking 12' walls means 12' ceilings. (It doesn't work that way, particularly for a garage slab, a lesson I learned the hard way.) But builders really do a poor job of making this obvious to someone who isn't doing this for a living.

2 - They poured the concrete graded slope up to the edge of the pressure treated lumber that runs the edge of my garage so it actually extends above the original height of the monolithic pour on the top. That netted me a few extra inches maybe? O_o I'll let you know about cracks. lol.
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post #101 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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1 - I re-read his post and you're right, he's thinking 12' walls means 12' ceilings. (It doesn't work that way, particularly for a garage slab, a lesson I learned the hard way.) But builders really do a poor job of making this obvious to someone who isn't doing this for a living.



2 - They poured the concrete graded slope up to the edge of the pressure treated lumber that runs the edge of my garage so it actually extends above the original height of the monolithic pour on the top. That netted me a few extra inches maybe? O_o I'll let you know about cracks. lol.


Lol! So my assumptions were correct that poured level with top of foundation you don’t get 10’8”.

That’s groovy though! Great way to get an extra 2” by pouring up against treated lumber. I would start thinking about a polymer based waterproofing system that runs up the Sheetrock at least 4” in the garage.
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post #102 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:46 AM
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Lol! So my assumptions were correct that poured level with top of foundation you don’t get 10’8”.

That’s groovy though! Great way to get an extra 2” by pouring up against treated lumber. I would start thinking about a polymer based waterproofing system that runs up the Sheetrock at least 4” in the garage.
Fiiiine. You can have this one. lol

They've sealed all edges so if water gets in the garage (Not bloody likely, the slope of the drive way is steep. O_o) but that might not be a bad idea just in case for the walls.
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post #103 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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My builder said he did the same thing (read pouring water down crack story above)... as DT would say.... "sad!"

I'm in Utah and in where is snow on the roads it really gets caked on the wheel wells. For once in my life, I want to use every level of protection possible
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post #104 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post
I re-read his post and you're right, he's thinking 12' walls means 12' ceilings. (It doesn't work that way, particularly for a garage slab, a lesson I learned the hard way.) But builders really do a poor job of making this obvious to someone who isn't doing this for a living.
If I'm the "he"...

I guess I never considered *which* dimension they were talking about prior to this conversation. I definitely know that I need to be more specific in the future though, so thanks MUCH!

We have been doing a few more home tours over the last couple of weeks, and I realized that the conversation generally went something like this:
Us: Are these 9'? Or 10?
Builder: There's 10' ceilings on the first floor, 9' in the basement.
Us: Is it possible to change the ceiling height?
Builder: Yes, we could make the 2nd floor and basement 10' for an additional cost.
Us: Cool, now let's say we wanted a section of the basement to be 12' or more.
Builder: I'm not sure, I know we've done something like that in the past, but you're looking at adding an engineering fee and having specialty blueprints made.
Us: No problem. Now, what if I wanted you to excavate under the garage, and have that be another room?
Builder: Ummm...
(5 minutes later, as we're leaving)
Me: Whelp, that rules them out
Wife: #sigh ...
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post #105 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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If I'm the "he"...

I guess I never considered *which* dimension they were talking about prior to this conversation. I definitely know that I need to be more specific in the future though, so thanks MUCH!

We have been doing a few more home tours over the last couple of weeks, and I realized that the conversation generally went something like this:
Us: Are these 9'? Or 10?
Builder: There's 10' ceilings on the first floor, 9' in the basement.
Us: Is it possible to change the ceiling height?
Builder: Yes, we could make the 2nd floor and basement 10' for an additional cost.
Us: Cool, now let's say we wanted a section of the basement to be 12' or more.
Builder: I'm not sure, I know we've done something like that in the past, but you're looking at adding an engineering fee and having specialty blueprints made.
Us: No problem. Now, what if I wanted you to excavate under the garage, and have that be another room?
Builder: Ummm...
(5 minutes later, as we're leaving)
Me: Whelp, that rules them out
Wife: #sigh ...
Best process of elimination ever. On the engineering bit - make SURE that the elevation of the garage area is accurate. They came so close to leaving the plans as is on the garage and area above garage and setting the spandeck 2' below foundation level! That would have left us an 4 foot door
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post #106 of 130 Old 10-02-2017, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Starting to finish up HVAC and low voltage. I’ve got speaker wire run, a 40’ 18gbps hdmi for the projector, hdmi for Xbox, hdmi for misc input, cat6 for network switch, and on Wednesday I run RG6 for 4 subwoofer locations and 35’ IR repeater cable. What am I missing you guys??? I’m sheeting on Saturday and paranoid I’m forgetting something.
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post #107 of 130 Old 10-03-2017, 05:47 AM
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Best process of elimination ever. On the engineering bit - make SURE that the elevation of the garage area is accurate. They came so close to leaving the plans as is on the garage and area above garage and setting the spandeck 2' below foundation level! That would have left us an 4 foot door
It's interesting that you say that, b/c one of the things I'm racking my brain over is how to do the doorway. I want a rear-entry theater to the top riser, and steps down from there to the lower tiers and floor. I also want a big high ceiling, so I can have Atmos speakers, lighting options, treatments, and HVAC run. The problem is that lowering the floor from the main basement area helps w/the riser steps, but doesn't buy me anything for ceiling height. The only thing I can think of is a 2 stage step down? Have 12-18" of step down from the "main basement" to a vestibule area, then another 3" down to the theater itself?

Quote:
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Starting to finish up HVAC and low voltage. I’ve got speaker wire run, a 40’ 18gbps hdmi for the projector, hdmi for Xbox, hdmi for misc input, cat6 for network switch, and on Wednesday I run RG6 for 4 subwoofer locations and 35’ IR repeater cable. What am I missing you guys??? I’m sheeting on Saturday and paranoid I’m forgetting something.
- How ever many speakers you're running to the front, add more.
- I almost forgot lighting behind the screen. For working on things this is a must
- Where does your main power come in?
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post #108 of 130 Old 10-03-2017, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Starting to finish up HVAC and low voltage. I’ve got speaker wire run, a 40’ 18gbps hdmi for the projector, hdmi for Xbox, hdmi for misc input, cat6 for network switch, and on Wednesday I run RG6 for 4 subwoofer locations and 35’ IR repeater cable. What am I missing you guys??? I’m sheeting on Saturday and paranoid I’m forgetting something.
Any wiring needed for shaking seats?

I'm actually going to run conduit to my front wall as well for display cables. I'm banking on projectors going away in a decade or so and interlocking display panels taking over. If I'm wrong, no harm no foul.
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post #109 of 130 Old 10-05-2017, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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HVAC and low voltage conduit progress! The HVAC and low voltage is all roughed in and insulation for platform and ceiling is going to be installed later today.

When I built the home I had two 3” conduits laid before pouring the slab for this room. They pop up in the closet under our stairs good my into the basement. 3 years later and I’m still really happy with my pre-build placement of the pop up where I am going to place the main AV rack.

In conduit 1 I have 13 speaker wires for my 9.2 + 4 Atmos speaker placements. I also have 4 RG6 cables going to each corner of the room for flexibility to test and place my two 12” subwoofers. I also have my 40’ 18.6 gbps HDMI 2.2 cable ( Sewell Direct ) in conduit 1 which will also get its own 1.25” conduit going up the wall and to the ceiling. Another CAT6 to the projector in conduit just for good measure and future proofing.

Conduit 2 will be a truly accessible conduit to a mini rack of network and sources under my bar. I have two 30’ 18 gbps HDMI, a 50’ IR extender cable, and a CAT6 for a network switch and WiFi repeater. It took me a bit to get the location picked out for conduit 2 access in the theater. I used a couple of 45 elbows and a 90 elbow secured with pvc anchors for a solid mounting spot.

That mini rack is imperative for my concrete bunker and a lot of thought was put into what to put in there compared to the AV rack out of the concrete bunker. 1) I didn’t want heat of main AV rack in theater. 2) I needXbox/harmony hub in theater due to concrete wireless blockage and 3) WiFi repeater in concrete bunker a must due to concrete blockage. So under the bar I will have a small 2U sized cabinet made for Xbox, repeater, and harmony hub all running back to main AV rack under stairs with out AV output coming back through conduit 1.

I also had to pre wire Romex for a 4 outlet breaker daisy chain for 2 outlets in bar and 2 coming out in front of platform.

Onward and upward!
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post #110 of 130 Old 10-05-2017, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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It's interesting that you say that, b/c one of the things I'm racking my brain over is how to do the doorway. I want a rear-entry theater to the top riser, and steps down from there to the lower tiers and floor. I also want a big high ceiling, so I can have Atmos speakers, lighting options, treatments, and HVAC run. The problem is that lowering the floor from the main basement area helps w/the riser steps, but doesn't buy me anything for ceiling height. The only thing I can think of is a 2 stage step down? Have 12-18" of step down from the "main basement" to a vestibule area, then another 3" down to the theater itself?





- How ever many speakers you're running to the front, add more.

- I almost forgot lighting behind the screen. For working on things this is a must

- Where does your main power come in?


I can share my full 3D design with you to browse with a free program called sweet home. Just don’t use it pull a heist on my home please.

The door took a bit of designing. You can see my drain in a previous post on this thread. It is detached mechanically from rest of basement. I quickly design the rough dimensions of this room 3 years ago and I still love it. I really like the double door centered rear entrance into the main portion of the rest of our basement. It really lends itself well to hosting and feel like a grand entrance. I have a 2’11” drop from concrete to concrete from the rest of my basement. Platform is a 14” drop from basement so there is one step between. Theater base is 21” so I have two steps between platform and base. I like the height of the plat form. Still gives me close to 8’6” ceiling on the platform and the base makes the room feel spacious.


I’m running three speakers to front. Not enough??
What do you mean lighting behind screen?
We will drill through concrete in rear for power. No biggie. I don’t want conduits sharing space with high voltage.
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post #111 of 130 Old 10-05-2017, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Any wiring needed for shaking seats?



I'm actually going to run conduit to my front wall as well for display cables. I'm banking on projectors going away in a decade or so and interlocking display panels taking over. If I'm wrong, no harm no foul.


If I do shakers in seat I will use the 4 outlet breaker I mentioned. Do these also require speaker wire?
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If I do shakers in seat I will use the 4 outlet breaker I mentioned. Do these also require speaker wire?
All the ones I've seen run off amps, not AC power
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post #113 of 130 Old 10-05-2017, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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All the ones I've seen run off amps, not AC power


I’ll have to check it out next day or two before we sheet floor on Saturday. Thanks!! Anything else I’m missing??? I’m having anxiety about having this floor sheeted for good!
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post #114 of 130 Old 10-05-2017, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Insulation!! Sounds so weird not having an echo in the room...


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That is right dead sexy, I'm jealous!!

I can't think of anything else you might've missed, so get that sheeting down!!

BTW, what're we looking at? I don't see the doorway, so is that the right wall or what?
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post #116 of 130 Old 10-06-2017, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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That is right dead sexy, I'm jealous!!



I can't think of anything else you might've missed, so get that sheeting down!!



BTW, what're we looking at? I don't see the doorway, so is that the right wall or what?


Why thank you! Still gotta put blocks every 48” in the joists this weekend to sturdy up the platform.

I am at the door way looking toward the front. Platform and ceiling are shown insulated. Screen wall far center.
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post #117 of 130 Old 10-06-2017, 06:53 AM
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Oh, so you floated the entire floor of the theater? Is that to create a giant bass trap, increasing tactile response to the seating?

I did this for the back row on a specifically designed riser, and there's an obvious difference b/w the front and back rows. I've really been leaning this way for the new theater...
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post #118 of 130 Old 10-06-2017, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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This weekend: Two blocks installed for every joist. Sheet plywood platform. Finish ceiling by firring down another 1.5”. Finish framing front of theater 2x4 walls. Pushing it (probably next weekend: Frame 6” stage. Steps/stairs. Columns.
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post #119 of 130 Old 10-06-2017, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Oh, so you floated the entire floor of the theater? Is that to create a giant bass trap, increasing tactile response to the seating?



I did this for the back row on a specifically designed riser, and there's an obvious difference b/w the front and back rows. I've really been leaning this way for the new theater...


Exactamente! It was a last minute audible creating a false floor for the theater base. It added about $600-700 in cost and time will tell if it was worth it or not.
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post #120 of 130 Old 10-06-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I’m running three speakers to front. Not enough??
What do you mean lighting behind screen?
We will drill through concrete in rear for power. No biggie. I don’t want conduits sharing space with high voltage.
Working through my own "to do list", I was re-reading your thread, taking some notes. I noticed that I completely missed 3-4 posts on this last page, and I don't know how??? It looks like where all the really good pics and stuff were, and where this question was, sorry!

I have 3-4 LED lights in the ceiling, behind my screen. I have about 22" from the front wall to the back of the screen, so all they do is shine down in that space. It's REALLY helpful if you want to work on things behind the screen, that way you don't have to take everything down to make minor changes, b/c it's too dark back there other wise. Also, the circuit could be re-purposed if I ever decided to put in one of those "cool lighting effects" back there.

Looking at those pics brought up another question tho: Why did you run your main HVAC below the stage, vs. in the ceiling? Was it a space thing? HVAC efficiency thing, or a bit of both?
As I work on my new plans, HVAC is definitely the weakest spot in my expertise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Exactamente! It was a last minute audible creating a false floor for the theater base. It added about $600-700 in cost and time will tell if it was worth it or not.
Very cool, I'll be interested to hear if it had any impact. It also helped to clarify why you needed stiffening blocks every 48". That's gotta be a pretty big span, from the front wall all the way to the start of the riser, I'm guessing??
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