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post #1 of 38 Old 07-21-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Gold Camp Theater Build

Hi all,

Original post:
Spoiler!


After a long long journey I completed my theater. The build thread wasn’t a follow along because there were many obstacles to overcome in my person life which took me away for months at a time.

A great number of AVSers helped and guided me along the way and without there help I could have never completed the theater. I am very grateful to you all and a huge thank you to BIGmouthinDC, , LTD02, Mike Garrett, Ted White, John Hile, Chris Seymour, Silva741, Ryan Hendry, Jon_B, Cksqurd, SteveFred, Naveen G, TMcG, Jonas2, granroth and pretty much in the Dedicated Theater Design & Construction forum.

I will post build progress picture below over the next few days or weeks. All in all it was an amazing experience to build a theater from the ground up. I learned a massive amount during the process and even did my first framing job. One of the things I really love about AVSForum is that even though you can always start a new thread and post a question the answer in many cases is already buried in a thread. Reading other people's build threads was invaluable and I stole so many awesome ideas from all of you. Things like using harbor freight vertical clamps to put up backer boxes or calling Magna Fabrics to buy in bulk and building frames for fabric panels and attaching them with velcro.


Spoiler!
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Last edited by pgwalsh; 05-30-2017 at 05:27 PM. Reason: update - Finished and didn't want to start a new thread
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post #2 of 38 Old 07-22-2014, 12:08 PM
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Sweet! I am in the Springs as well. Look forward to seeing your progress! Maybe will have to have a COS home theater GTG!!!
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post #3 of 38 Old 07-22-2014, 12:51 PM
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I think you should rotate the layout 90, or 180 degrees. With 180 degrees you’d have many advantages. Easy to place the side speakers exactly where desired, the riser would be in the optimal place, and the persons would enter and see the screen immediately, without obstacles.

Closing the entryway or not, you’d get better acoustic results by closing it, but I think it’d look cool either way.

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post #4 of 38 Old 07-22-2014, 03:10 PM
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+1 rotate, now with this new plan you could narrow the entrance with a partial wall and create a space along the wall just opposite the door for either your equipment or refreshment counter. Maybe both.
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post #5 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
I think you should rotate the layout 90, or 180 degrees. With 180 degrees you’d have many advantages. Easy to place the side speakers exactly where desired, the riser would be in the optimal place, and the persons would enter and see the screen immediately, without obstacles.

Closing the entryway or not, you’d get better acoustic results by closing it, but I think it’d look cool either way.

I like it. I like it a lot.

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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
+1 rotate, now with this new plan you could narrow the entrance with a partial wall and create a space along the wall just opposite the door for either your equipment or refreshment counter. Maybe both.
This is a good idea. I had planned to put the equipment in the CLOSET space. If I change the angle of the 2 x 6, then I have more than enough space for a 19" rack. On the other side of the closet, where I had the screen originally, is my media room and bar. I planned to put another rack on that side with my NAS servers etc. I was going to put a ventilation system above and route it into my boiler room which has double ventilation. In that section the ceiling is much higher, but beams have been put in.

How many seats do you think I can get in that space without being overly crowded? I'd like two rows and thought about putting love seat chases on the first, but I don't have my heart set on anything. A curved seating area would be nice too, what do you think?

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post #6 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlechner View Post
Sweet! I am in the Springs as well. Look forward to seeing your progress! Maybe will have to have a COS home theater GTG!!!
There's another member in the springs who's also into DIY speakers. We've been talking about meeting up at some point.

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post #7 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any links or companies they recommend for good high end theater seating?

Builds: Maelstrom 21 Ottoman Build, Dual Opposed MFW's x 2, Statements, SEOS-12/TD12M x 5. Home Theater
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post #8 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
Closing the entryway or not, you’d get better acoustic results by closing it, but I think it’d look cool either way.
I thought about closing it off, but then I'd have this odd little room between that outer and inner door. I imagine it would help with soundproofing that outer area, which is a big deal. I could take pictures of the room and the entry. I'm open to any suggestions.

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post #9 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
Does anyone have any links or companies they recommend for good high end theater seating?
I got mine from theaterseatstore.com. They may have something you like. I called and got better pricing and free install.
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post #10 of 38 Old 07-23-2014, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
How many seats do you think I can get in that space without being overly crowded? I'd like two rows and thought about putting love seat chases on the first, but I don't have my heart set on anything. A curved seating area would be nice too, what do you think?
The seats I placed on the image above are Palliser's Lemans, not exactly small, and they're modeled accurately, I think you can easily fit 5 seats. A curved seating takes more space, 4 would surely fit, 5 may or not.
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post #11 of 38 Old 07-24-2014, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
The seats I placed on the image above are Palliser's Lemans, not exactly small, and they're modeled accurately, I think you can easily fit 5 seats. A curved seating takes more space, 4 would surely fit, 5 may or not.
Thanks... I'm on their site now. I think I'd like to do at least 5 in the back and 4 in the front. I'm trying to get an idea on seats so I know where to build the columns beforehand. I'm going to do a set of side channels for each row.

I've looked at fortresseating.com and they also have some nice seating. I am looking for the dark brown and black combo with perhaps some wood accents.

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post #12 of 38 Old 08-09-2014, 09:12 AM
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placing the subs at 1/4 distances from the top/bottom/side walls will eliminate/not excite most of the room modes. ideally the drivers would be located at the intersections of the red dotted lines. but, getting close still provides most of the benefit.



there will still be one off the rear wall. with a limp mass that may be partially absorbed and/or eq can be used because frequency response should be fairly uniform across the rows (though I'm not sure how that "nook" throws it all off.


I don't follow in the area, so pm to me if something isn't clear.


this thread is a must read:


LTD-M18 Sub Build


;-) good luck.
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post #13 of 38 Old 08-10-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
placing the subs at 1/4 distances from the top/bottom/side walls will eliminate/not excite most of the room modes. ideally the drivers would be located at the intersections of the red dotted lines. but, getting close still provides most of the benefit.



there will still be one off the rear wall. with a limp mass that may be partially absorbed and/or eq can be used because frequency response should be fairly uniform across the rows (though I'm not sure how that "nook" throws it all off.


I don't follow in the area, so pm to me if something isn't clear.


this thread is a must read:


LTD-M18 Sub Build


;-) good luck.
Thanks John. I may put in a wall where that nook is because I want to make the room fairly sound proof, or as much as I can. The double door are solid, but not solid enough.

How would you fire the ports on this one? Same as Jbrown? For the size his boxes are very shallow, which is nice.

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post #14 of 38 Old 03-02-2015, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting closer to starting the build.

First, thank you everyone for your suggestions, I think I'm going to use all of them. I've been away for the last 6 weeks (that's my wife's home country) in NZ and I'm back and ready to get this thing going. After taking into consideration of flipping the room and seating, I am convinced that's the right way to go. While poking around in that room, I came up with a few things that might make things more interesting.

I measured the cross beams and they're 14" deep. However, the back of the room where the riser and second row of seats will reside there's an extended ceiling or should I say false ceiling. Taking this out would give me 14" of added height in the rear for the riser and ATMOS speakers. It's just 2x4's with come vertical boards attached, nothing fancy. See pics below.


This picture may be hard to discern at first, but you'll see the upper beams where the wire's are and then the false ceiling 2x4's below.

This next image show's the other area's without the false ceiling (I don't know if that's what you'd call it).


The next section is where there's some dead space I was going to use for the equipment. The space is a bit tight to put a rack in, so I was planning on moving, the non-supporting, wall 6 inches into the room. I loose a little space on the sides, but not much and that enables me to double sheetrock on both sides.


Where the thermostat and light switch are located is where I plan to put the rack. It won't be facing into the room.

With that said, I plan to put in a wall and interior door for sound proofing. So this wall that I plan to bring out 6 inches will extend the whole length of that room. Here's what the space looks like currently.



Lastly, is this what they call a decoupled wall?



I plan to remove some, if not all, of the insulation to use Roxul stone wool insulation. I've heard it's better for soundproofing etc. I'll post the other sound proofing measures I plan to take sometime this week. Soundproofing is important. Our house is steel frame and vibrations tend to travel further than expected. This never happened in another steel framed house we owned, so I'm a bit perplexed.

I know I've said a lot in this post, but I really would appreciate some constructive feedback. Any suggestions are welcome.

Pete
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post #15 of 38 Old 03-02-2015, 03:43 PM
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I'm excited to see your build. I loved how your td12m speakers turned out, I'm sure you'll be able to bring that kind of detail to your theater.

Don't spend too much money on the roxul insulation. Remember the four elements of soundproofing; http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...-construction/
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post #16 of 38 Old 03-03-2015, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post
I'm excited to see your build. I loved how your td12m speakers turned out, I'm sure you'll be able to bring that kind of detail to your theater.

Don't spend too much money on the roxul insulation. Remember the four elements of soundproofing; http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...-construction/
Jon,

Thanks for the compliment on the td12m/seos design, that is very kind of you.

Right now I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row before I dive in. Thanks for the link, I'll read more of it today.

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post #17 of 38 Old 03-04-2015, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Design Update 1

Here's the plan updated with new wall and door. I was hoping some of you could critique the plan and tell me where I may be going wrong with seating etc. I have no idea how to accomplish Atmos with 2 rows of seats, so any advice on that issue is welcome.



As mentioned above, I can raise the 8'6" ceiling above the second row, where the riser starts, 14 inches. I'll still have another 14" of support beams. I didn't save myself a ton of room between the back row and wall, but I have been trying to give my front row as much distance from the screen as possible. I wonder if I'm cutting it too close.
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Awesome width in your room. I'm jealous of that. Big disclaimer, I am no way shape or form an expert. Also, I know zip about atmos. With that said, the rows of seats look awfully close to each other. Also the back row looks a little close to the back wall. I do like the orientation you have the theater in now. I also like where the entrance sits to the theater. Having extra ceiling height for the ceiling is awesome.
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post #19 of 38 Old 03-04-2015, 03:05 PM
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I like the basic flow of the room but the speaker placement just doesn't look quite right, check the Dolby labs white papers
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post #20 of 38 Old 03-05-2015, 05:53 AM
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I second BIG's observation. Seems like the ATMOS heights should be brought in a few feet.

But great looking space to work with! Your "decoupled" wall is likely building code. Up further north, they likely require your basement walls to float, leaving a 3/4"-1" gap so when frost heaves your basement floor, it has room to not push up on the floor joists above.
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post #21 of 38 Old 03-05-2015, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post
Awesome width in your room. I'm jealous of that. Big disclaimer, I am no way shape or form an expert. Also, I know zip about atmos. With that said, the rows of seats look awfully close to each other. Also the back row looks a little close to the back wall. I do like the orientation you have the theater in now. I also like where the entrance sits to the theater. Having extra ceiling height for the ceiling is awesome.
I may play around with the spacing a bit. I really couldn't figure out how much room you need behind the back row or what was the minimum. However, I plan to use the Enlitghtor 4K screen material and wasn't sure on seating distance. I heard with 4k you can sit closer, but I won't upgrade my projector (Runco LS5), until more 4K options are available, specifically when the image can be stretched with an anamorphic lens.

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I like the basic flow of the room but the speaker placement just doesn't look quite right, check the Dolby labs white papers
I watched the video interview with Scott Wilkinson and Anthony Grimani and to get some clarification on Atmos placement, but still not 100% sure how to go about a second row. I figured I could do a pair in the front then behind the first row and behind the second row for a total of 6. I'll read more on Dolby's sight. It was interesting to listen to that podcast and learn that with Atmos you now drive each channel with different sound elements instead of an array for multiple seats like in 5.1 and 7.1. However, I gathering for home use, the sides will still be in an array since that seems to be what processor will support, am I wrong in this thinking?

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I second BIG's observation. Seems like the ATMOS heights should be brought in a few feet.

But great looking space to work with! Your "decoupled" wall is likely building code. Up further north, they likely require your basement walls to float, leaving a 3/4"-1" gap so when frost heaves your basement floor, it has room to not push up on the floor joists above.
I figured they were put in for movement, but I didn't realize it was caused by frost. We have radiant heat throughout the house, which is nice on the feet. So will that type of decoupling help with reducing sound vibrations to the second floor? I do plan to use 2 layers of sheetrock with green glue on the walls and isolation clips on the ceiling.

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post #22 of 38 Old 03-05-2015, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
I watched the video interview with Scott Wilkinson and Anthony Grimani and to get some clarification on Atmos placement, but still not 100% sure how to go about a second row. I figured I could do a pair in the front then behind the first row and behind the second row for a total of 6. I'll read more on Dolby's sight. It was interesting to listen to that podcast and learn that with Atmos you now drive each channel with different sound elements instead of an array for multiple seats like in 5.1 and 7.1. However, I gathering for home use, the sides will still be in an array since that seems to be what processor will support, am I wrong in this thinking?



I figured they were put in for movement, but I didn't realize it was caused by frost. We have radiant heat throughout the house, which is nice on the feet. So will that type of decoupling help with reducing sound vibrations to the second floor? I do plan to use 2 layers of sheetrock with green glue on the walls and isolation clips on the ceiling.
Yeah, more so the moisture content of expansive soils. Up in here in Canada, it becomes more of frost depth, haha.

That sounds like a good starting point for sound isolation. Google "Dolby Atmos White Papers" and you should be able to find their document detailing different Atmos layouts. Definitely worth reading at this point in your build if that is your plan.
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-11-2016, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Been a long time

I'm still in the planning stages.

I have a few concerns before I proceed and was hoping to get a little more advice.

Concerns:
  • Atmos and rear surround placements.
  • Seating distance for front to screen and second row distance from front seats and rear wall.
  • Subwoofer placement and size etc.
The seats I'm contemplating on using are United Leather - Nevada's
The problem I see is that if someone fully reclines, space in the rear is a real issue. I never fully recline in a seat as I prefer to be somewhat upright, but I do like to have my legs relaxed on something. They have a wall saver version, but it extends the front from 12" to 25". A few people have told me just to go with one row, but I would really want 2.

Here's the layout as of now, but the Atmos speakers are still not in their final resting place. Even though there aren't any processors in my price range that support 6 overheads, I'd like to at least build the backer boxes for them and maybe even install and have them ready for when there is processor launched.

The interior wall in the closet is gone, I did that earlier this week. I'm going to build a new wall soon. The back row has a false ceiling and I'm going to remove that, so it'll have 8' 4.5" ceilings after clips and rock in the front and back, but where to start the riser is a concern. The Atmos speakers will be recessed. The room length and width as of now incorporate what it would be with clips and rock.



Also, I haven't finalized my subs because of limited space behind the screen. LTD02 has been very helpful and just wanted to say thank you.
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With a 19' deep room and losing 1.5' off the front for the screen, I would not do rear surround speakers if the back row was the main row. I would wire for 5.1.6, but for right now you would only be able to use 5.1.4. Now if the front row was the main row, then I would consider doing 7.1.4, but wire for 7.1.6. It is still .1 no matter how many subs you have.

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post #25 of 38 Old 05-29-2017, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Demolition and rewiring. Fun!

Below is the original insulation from the previous owner. It's been there for about 10 years and I needed to move it in order to run wires and do the lights. The removal process ended up being pretty disgusting because there was copious amounts of mice poop. I had planned to reuse it, but after discovering the mass amount of poop I disregarded it.



This is where my equipment and ventilation will be installed. In order to accomplish this I will remove all the 2 x 6's and build a new frame further into the room. This will also require some rewiring of the light switch, thermostat and relocating some electrical wiring.








The 2x4's you see that are below the main framing are part of a false frame. In order to raise the rear ceiling I had to remove the false ceiling and relocate all the wires you see in this picture. This caused a pretty massive delay in my build procegress, but I was able to get it done without ruining anything. I did have to call the alarm company over to rewire one alarm wire. Apparently it wasn't installed correctly in the first place.




So much fun rerouting all these wires.


This little craw space, which is too small for my fat arse to get into is where I brought in some additional circuits from our boiler room. It's a strait run, but took some time to fish through.


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Progress post

After the demolition I got to work in the framing. It was a first and I did watch a few videos. I think one of the key things I learned in the videos was to make sure all the vertical studs are lined up so the bends are all on the same side. No one wants a wavy wall.

I tried to rope my neighbor into helping lift the frame into place, but overtime he wasn't available. So I used clamps to hold and adjust the frame while I secured it.



I will cut those two bottom studs for the door.



Below you can see the nails I used for the floating frame.





It took quite a while to get the frame leveled with tiny adjustments until everything lined up just right.

After that I needed something to drink.


and something to eat.


Then I took my son to the zoo to see the lion cubs.


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post #27 of 38 Old 05-29-2017, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hats & Clips or Furring Channels

With the help of Ted White and John Hile I started on the hat and clips and backer boxes. Ted and John were extremely patient with me and very helpful.

This tools was invaluable to speed up the process. I mounted it on my camera tripod and then would mark the height for each section on the stud. Once level I marked all the way across. A huge time saver.



The hat and clips don't take too long to put up as long as you take the time to measure carefully. I kept referring to the Sound Proofing Companies PDF guide on placement because it's not like you just line the clips up and attach. There's a spacing pattern that you need to pay attention to.





The backer boxes weren't difficult to build or install, but it did take time and the cement board on the inside is messy. However cutting it was simpler than I thought.



The staggered boxes were for the lights and Atmos speakers. I was originally going to put more lights in, but decided I didn't need it.


I lined the backer boxes with sealant before lifting them into place. When I installed the OSB and wires, I added sealant to the bottom and around where the wire entered and exited the boxes.



Time for another beer or two.



of course you need something to open the beer bottle.



and some food



Had to make a little trip to California and stopped by a brewery.

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post #28 of 38 Old 05-29-2017, 06:53 PM
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Is your bottom plate treated lumber? Could not tell from looking at the pictures.

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post #29 of 38 Old 05-29-2017, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Is your bottom plate treated lumber? Could not tell from looking at the pictures.
Yes, but doesn't look like it in the photo's. Was inspected before I put OSB and Sheetrock on the walls.

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post #30 of 38 Old 05-29-2017, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
Yes, but doesn't look like it in the photo's. Was inspected before I put OSB and Sheetrock on the walls.
I figured it was, but thought I would ask, just in case.

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