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post #1 of 51 Old 07-23-2014, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quietest 6" Inline Fan Testing

It seems that vegetable/agri growers have similar needs - moving air in/out of the growing room without the noise being a disturbance. One YouTube there are a bunch of reviews from MonsterGardens.com (I have no connection to them, but found most of the reviews well done - and have compiled the relevant info below)

Just throwing out there - that they had 2 others that rated well: Also listening to the actual noise in the video may be of help to some:
Summary of db / max CFM @ 0"/watt/Current Amazon price
  • FanTech 6" FGC 6XL - 78.5db/392 CFM/185 watts/ $170 (btw- it seems that MonsterGardens no longer sell the Fantech on their site). This is the one mentioned very often on AVS
  • Vortex S-Line Ultra Quiet - $178- - 79.5db; 215 watts (db and wattage for the 8"model); (polycarbonate shell- vs. metal - for less sound, also has a nice mounting bracket which helps minimize reverb; also includes integrated backdraft dampener
  • Rebel - seems to have been be their own brand - the 8" model- 78.1 - 79db ; 222 watts
  • Phresh Hyperfan (smallest only about 6"x6"x5", very energy efficient) - includes the speed controller- 74db @ 100% (57db @ 35%), 11watts @ 35%, 48 watts @ 50%, 56 watts @ 100%)/ $175 (note inclusion of the speed controller saves about $25)- they have one here with Myu the silencer for about $250.. The 8" model 60db@35%; @50% 75 watts! , 83 watts @ 100%-
  • 8"x9" x6.5"- it also had more suction vs. the Vortex
My total newbie conclusion is that the Hyperfan is definately worthy of consideration, and probably best to get the 8". Let me know what you think.

Video Reviews:


- - at about 5:50 of
you can hear the fan. (date of review Aug '13)/
Rebel - their overall recommendation. They have a video of it vs. the Vortex being about 1db quieter and more powerful. (as of June '13, though interestingly I couldn't find it on their website now. Likewise, I couldn't find it on Amazon)- (for the 8" model- 78.1 - 79db ; 222 watts)
- Interesting video showing impact of , summary of their recommendations:
  • Get a larger (e.g. 8") fan, and running it at a lower speed- note -going from a 6" to an 8" fan increases max CFM from 315 to 710- so you can easily run it at 50%; and it's only about $30 more expensive for the 8" model
  • don't mount directly to stud - rather hang from stud via ratchets
  • insulation
  • Neoprene duct clamps
  • Duct silencer (i.e. a muffler) (put between carbon filter and fan)- e.g. Phresh (costs about $100)
  • Of course the tips on the web site- ala the "dead vent" - accomplish the same results for less money - but figured the info might help some with less building skill


Here's a calculator to determine what size you need

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post #2 of 51 Old 07-24-2014, 04:55 AM
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Amazing what companies now exist that supply grow houses. Of course they want quiet fans, they don't want the neighbors to know.

The 6 and 8 inch Vortex are available through HVACQuick.com as are a number of other inline fans. S&P has a version of the fan without the backdraft damper and fancy paint job.
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post #3 of 51 Old 07-24-2014, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Running the risk of embarrassing myself here with naiveté - but exactly WHAT are they growing (that they don't want the neighbors to know)?? :-)
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Originally Posted by cgott42 View Post
Running the risk of embarrassing myself here with naiveté - but exactly WHAT are they growing (that they don't want the neighbors to know)?? :-)
Weed.

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post #5 of 51 Old 07-24-2014, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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aha !
So THAT's why all the people testing the videos are young males , dressed more like college students than farmers - and don't look at all like the older folks at my local greenhouse.
So I guess we share a common need - to keep things quiet ;-)
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So I started to wonder, now that you can actually legally grow wacky tobaccey how much can you make? If you believe this article if you have a 10x10 spare room over $100,000 per year.

http://www.marijuanabusinessnews.com...ower_make.aspx

Next question is can you grow it in your theater?
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post #7 of 51 Old 07-24-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
So I started to wonder, now that you can actually legally grow wacky tobaccey how much can you make? If you believe this article if you have a 10x10 spare room over $100,000 per year.

http://www.marijuanabusinessnews.com...ower_make.aspx

Next question is can you grow it in your theater?
Multipurpose home theaters ARE getting more and more popular ...
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post #8 of 51 Old 07-24-2014, 02:29 PM
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Next question is can you grow it in your theater?
Seems about right since you'll generally have a lot of candy and popcorn handy in a home theater also. And comfortable reclining chairs....

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post #9 of 51 Old 07-26-2014, 01:39 PM
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Oh, yeah, that UV lighting is for my star ceiling...
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Bumping this old thread since I'm in the process of figuring this issue out and searching AVS there are not a lot of threads on the subject, so this one kept coming up. Secondly, no one ever really answered CGott42's question, so here's my take....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgott42 View Post
It seems that vegetable/agri growers have similar needs - moving air in/out of the growing room without the noise being a disturbance. One YouTube there are a bunch of reviews from MonsterGardens.com (I have no connection to them, but found most of the reviews well done - and have compiled the relevant info below)

Just throwing out there - that they had 2 others that rated well: Also listening to the actual noise in the video may be of help to some:
Summary of db / max CFM @ 0"/watt/Current Amazon price
  • FanTech 6" FGC 6XL - 78.5db/392 CFM/185 watts/ $170 (btw- it seems that MonsterGardens no longer sell the Fantech on their site). This is the one mentioned very often on AVS
  • Vortex S-Line Ultra Quiet - $178- - 79.5db; 215 watts (db and wattage for the 8"model); (polycarbonate shell- vs. metal - for less sound, also has a nice mounting bracket which helps minimize reverb; also includes integrated backdraft dampener
  • Rebel - seems to have been be their own brand - the 8" model- 78.1 - 79db ; 222 watts
  • Phresh Hyperfan (smallest only about 6"x6"x5", very energy efficient) - includes the speed controller- 74db @ 100% (57db @ 35%), 11watts @ 35%, 48 watts @ 50%, 56 watts @ 100%)/ $175 (note inclusion of the speed controller saves about $25)- they have one here with Myu the silencer for about $250.. The 8" model 60db@35%; @50% 75 watts! , 83 watts @ 100%-
  • 8"x9" x6.5"- it also had more suction vs. the Vortex
My total newbie conclusion is that the Hyperfan is definately worthy of consideration, and probably best to get the 8". Let me know what you think.
I've spent a fair amount of time researching this very issue. I disagree with CGott's conclusion on the Hyperfan. Here's why:
  1. I can't figure out how duct work would connect to it, based on its design
  2. I haven't been able to locate any instruction manual for their products
  3. Seems to be geared toward the pot-head growers, and that's their only market
  4. There are name-brand and vetted alternatives available for similar prices with vetted reviews and years worth of testing

Rebel: Similar conclusion to Hyperfan. My guess it's a white label (perhaps copy of) Fantech's FGC series

Vortex: All plastic - not necessarily a bad thing. My main issue with Vortex is their excessive RPM speeds. High RPM = loud.

So far, the only brands I find worth considering for inline fans are Fantech, Panasonic, and Soler & Palau. Of those, none of the Fantech are quiet. For instance, I inquired with their tech support regarding one of their new "quiet" CVS series, and the response I got was, "about 12 sone." That is ~64db. That's not quiet. That said, in the HVAC world it's not loud either. Put it in a hush box and you'd prolly be fine.

Panasonic OTOH, advertises <2 sone (<38 db; i.e. QUIET!) for some of its WhisperLine models.

S&P does not rate its "remote" fans, but from what I have been told, their -S ("silent") line is within reach of the Panasonic's when run on their low speed setting.
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Last edited by HT Geek; 03-17-2016 at 09:26 PM.
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post #11 of 51 Old 03-18-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Bumping this old thread since I'm in the process of figuring this issue out and searching AVS there are not a lot of threads on the subject, so this one kept coming up. Secondly, no one ever really answered CGott42's question, so here's my take....



I've spent a fair amount of time researching this very issue. I disagree with CGott's conclusion on the Hyperfan. Here's why:
  1. I can't figure out how duct work would connect to it, based on its design
  2. I haven't been able to locate any instruction manual for their products
  3. Seems to be geared toward the pot-head growers, and that's their only market
  4. There are name-brand and vetted alternatives available for similar prices with vetted reviews and years worth of testing

Rebel: Similar conclusion to Hyperfan. My guess it's a white label (perhaps copy of) Fantech's FGC series

Vortex: All plastic - not necessarily a bad thing. My main issue with Vortex is their excessive RPM speeds. High RPM = loud.

So far, the only brands I find worth considering for inline fans are Fantech, Panasonic, and Soler & Palau. Of those, none of the Fantech are quiet. For instance, I inquired with their tech support regarding one of their new "quiet" CVS series, and the response I got was, "about 12 sone." That is ~64db. That's not quiet. That said, in the HVAC world it's not loud either. Put it in a hush box and you'd prolly be fine.

Panasonic OTOH, advertises <2 sone (<38 db; i.e. QUIET!) for some of its WhisperLine models.

S&P does not rate its "remote" fans, but from what I have been told, their -S ("silent") line is within reach of the Panasonic's when run on their low speed setting.
Truly thanks for your feedback and bringing this thread alive, it's on my bucket list to add cooling to my AV rack, as it's got way more gear than originally planned back in 2007, so now I need to tackle that project.

What is your time frame to buy your inline fan?
I want to use one to remove heat from the below AV rack, I'll have it exit outside of the HT in the rec room
AV rack


Rec room side, it will exit above the drop ceiling, I can run a flex duct there and fan (this is 2 year old picture, before 4ft door installed)
Most likely "on" via the HT on for simplicity .... 12v trigger off the Denon 4520CI


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post
Oh, yeah, that UV lighting is for my star ceiling...
Well the Franklin Mint secretly planned their Star Trek lamps to be dual purpose - reading and recreation growing in a HT, it's got a UV lamp!
. . .
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post #12 of 51 Old 03-18-2016, 10:29 AM
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What is your time frame to buy your inline fan?
Likely within the next 2 weeks, though may be 4-5 weeks until I have time to install them. I've got 2 biz trips between now and then that are cramping my ability to work on the HT project. I was on the fence w/the in-line fan too, but last night I decided it's better to have it than not and wish I had one if we have a football party, etc.

Quote:
I want to use one to remove heat from the below AV rack, I'll have it exit outside of the HT in the rec room....

Rec room side, it will exit above the drop ceiling, I can run a flex duct there and fan (this is 2 year old picture, before 4ft door installed)
Most likely "on" via the HT on for simplicity .... 12v trigger off the Denon 4520CI
Ah, so you'll have basically a dead vent. Is your A/V rack sealed or is it open to the room (looks like it's open, from what I can see in your pics)? Wouldn't you want to mount the intake up high (i.e. heat rising)? You could possibly install a rackable fan or two down low to help push the air up, though with good suction from an in-line fan I doubt you'll need to do that - even if your rack is open to the room.

Since you'll be venting to another room that could be occupied, I would recommend against the Fantech fans. They are too loud, even behind the acoustic tiles. The Panasonic bathroom fans are comparably priced and appear to be the quietest. They can really move some air too. Zoro Tools had a 20% off sale yesterday, but I could not do my research fast enough to take advantage of it.

My circumstances are going to be a bit more of a logistical challenge. I'm planning to zone my HT room, and I've got to be certain the in-line fans don't attempt to operate when the dampers are closed. My thought/plan atm is to hookup a 24v relay next to each in-line fan (1 supply, 1 return) and trick the zone system into thinking the relays are spring dampers (in which case the zone system has to apply continuous voltage to keep them open).

One issue I haven't figured out yet (would really appreciate input on this from anyone).... Do I need an in-line fan in the return duct if I have one in the supply duct? Put another way, can I get away with good results if I only have extra air movement in one or the other (supply or return)? My impression so far is that I'd be better off with the same throughput fan in both supply and return ducts to ensure equal CFM flow, but I have not been able to confirm this.
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One issue I haven't figured out yet (would really appreciate input on this from anyone).... Do I need an in-line fan in the return duct if I have one in the supply duct? Put another way, can I get away with good results if I only have extra air movement in one or the other (supply or return)? My impression so far is that I'd be better off with the same throughput fan in both supply and return ducts to ensure equal CFM flow, but I have not been able to confirm this.
Depends on the capacity of the fan, the heat load and temperature differential of the air coming in. A major factor in fan CFM is resistance. The higher the resistance the lower the CFM. One assigned to both push and pull air is fighting twice the resistance of a fan just doing one or the other. My work retrofitting the Black Cat theater led to adding a second fan in an attempt to keep up with the heat load in his dead vent theater. More details in that thread.
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Likely within the next 2 weeks, though may be 4-5 weeks until I have time to install them. I've got 2 biz trips between now and then that are cramping my ability to work on the HT project. I was on the fence w/the in-line fan too, but last night I decided it's better to have it than not and wish I had one if we have a football party, etc.



Ah, so you'll have basically a dead vent. Is your A/V rack sealed or is it open to the room (looks like it's open, from what I can see in your pics)? Wouldn't you want to mount the intake up high (i.e. heat rising)? You could possibly install a rackable fan or two down low to help push the air up, though with good suction from an in-line fan I doubt you'll need to do that - even if your rack is open to the room.

Since you'll be venting to another room that could be occupied, I would recommend against the Fantech fans. They are too loud, even behind the acoustic tiles. The Panasonic bathroom fans are comparably priced and appear to be the quietest. They can really move some air too. Zoro Tools had a 20% off sale yesterday, but I could not do my research fast enough to take advantage of it.

My circumstances are going to be a bit more of a logistical challenge. I'm planning to zone my HT room, and I've got to be certain the in-line fans don't attempt to operate when the dampers are closed. My thought/plan atm is to hookup a 24v relay next to each in-line fan (1 supply, 1 return) and trick the zone system into thinking the relays are spring dampers (in which case the zone system has to apply continuous voltage to keep them open).

One issue I haven't figured out yet (would really appreciate input on this from anyone).... Do I need an in-line fan in the return duct if I have one in the supply duct? Put another way, can I get away with good results if I only have extra air movement in one or the other (supply or return)? My impression so far is that I'd be better off with the same throughput fan in both supply and return ducts to ensure equal CFM flow, but I have not been able to confirm this.
Yes, that AV rack is opened to the HT side, closed to rec room by sealed doors (for easy access to back side of gear).
I'm going to cut a hole in top, that is where flex duct will go, and then that will suck the hot air out back into the rec room side above those ceiling tiles.
Thanks for advice on quiet fans, as truly I want no added noise in the rec room also.


At one time I was thinking to pipe COLD air into the HT from the closed utility room next to it, as I have a air heat pump hot water heater, and that room is actually 10 degrees colder than the rec room always!
But for simplicity decided just to go with removed the hot air for now, the HT does rise a few degrees over 2-3 hours movie .....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
One assigned to both push and pull air is fighting twice the resistance of a fan just doing one or the other. My work retrofitting the Black Cat theater led to adding a second fan in an attempt to keep up with the heat load in his dead vent theater. More details in that thread.
Thanks, Big.

What I was referring to was having a single fan in the supply duct and a single fan in the return duct, where the fans have equal ratings (possibly identical fans). What I don't know yet is if the fans would be identical distances from the room.
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At one time I was thinking to pipe COLD air into the HT from the closed utility room next to it, as I have a air heat pump hot water heater, and that room is actually 10 degrees colder than the rec room always!
Sounds like that idea has merit, though I would imagine you'd first want to consider how air circulates in that room right now. I have learned this HVAC stuff is a tad more complicated than one would think at first glance.

Fluid dynamics seems to fit the HVAC model well though. I've glanced at a few books on the subject online. Good material for curing insomnia. Or making my head hurt. LOL.
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Update - I have the Hyperfan - one deadvent coming in and one deadvent pulling air out of the HT (probably not necessary).
I have had it for ~1.5 years and it works really well - I keep it on the lowest setting, and I especially like the fact that there's a wire control know (with very long cable) so I can control the setting.
On the lowest setting - room is comfortable and air seems fresh, and most of all - you don't hear anything
if you raise it up you'll get a HUGE rush of air, and you'll hear what sounds like a plane taking off

Note - I bought the 8" one, so that I could keep it on the lowest setting.
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Update - I have the Hyperfan - one deadvent coming in and one deadvent pulling air out of the HT (probably not necessary).
I have had it for ~1.5 years and it works really well - I keep it on the lowest setting,
Cool. Glad you have experience with it.

So... I can't tell from pics I've seen of it whether it has a lip suitable to attach flex duct. Does it? If not, how did you hook it up?

And, is it plug-in (wall plug) or direct wire?

How do you control the speed of the fan?
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post #19 of 51 Old 03-18-2016, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Bumping this old thread since I'm in the process of figuring this issue out and searching AVS there are not a lot of threads on the subject, so this one kept coming up. Secondly, no one ever really answered CGott42's question, so here's my take....



I've spent a fair amount of time researching this very issue. I disagree with CGott's conclusion on the Hyperfan. Here's why:
  1. I can't figure out how duct work would connect to it, based on its design
  2. I haven't been able to locate any instruction manual for their products
  3. Seems to be geared toward the pot-head growers, and that's their only market
  4. There are name-brand and vetted alternatives available for similar prices with vetted reviews and years worth of testing

Rebel: Similar conclusion to Hyperfan. My guess it's a white label (perhaps copy of) Fantech's FGC series

Vortex: All plastic - not necessarily a bad thing. My main issue with Vortex is their excessive RPM speeds. High RPM = loud.

So far, the only brands I find worth considering for inline fans are Fantech, Panasonic, and Soler & Palau. Of those, none of the Fantech are quiet. For instance, I inquired with their tech support regarding one of their new "quiet" CVS series, and the response I got was, "about 12 sone." That is ~64db. That's not quiet. That said, in the HVAC world it's not loud either. Put it in a hush box and you'd prolly be fine.

Panasonic OTOH, advertises <2 sone (<38 db; i.e. QUIET!) for some of its WhisperLine models.

S&P does not rate its "remote" fans, but from what I have been told, their -S ("silent") line is within reach of the Panasonic's when run on their low speed setting.
I have installed a variant of the Panasonic WhisperGreen line in an upstairs bathroom. Almost unbelievably quiet when not connected to anything (test run). However, I have a rather long length of (admittedly poorly routed) flex ducting, and with that connected the static pressure raises the sound level considerably. To the point where I almost want to consider metal ducting for better airflow. I put the fan in to replace a dinky $10 contractor version that is not only extremely loud but just doesn't move much air. I was really hoping for something a lot quieter in real-world use. It's absolutely not < 1 sone with any length of flex ductwork. But I'm not done yet. I will either reroute the flex with fewer bends or replace with smooth metal. But with a dead vent the *goal* is twists and turns. YMMV.

I also have what appears to be a version of the Can Fan Pro (http://www.amazon.com/Can-Fan-Pro-Se.../dp/B00GYG0MH0) which came with my rack air duct kit from Mid Atlantic. I have not yet fired it up, so I can't yet speak to that either with regard to airflow or noise, but this one will run through the ceiling of the basement play room, so I will want it to be very quiet. Right now it's connected via insulated flex that came with the rack duct kit (and installed by my HVAC contractor), but I'm considering relocating the work they did before I button things up to make the motor more accessible via a soffit panel instead of the middle of the ceiling. And perhaps adding a duct silencer and/or backdraft damper. One good thing is that it's variable speed.

I also have to either build a dead vent or add a booster fan and/or joist muffler to my current HVAC feeds to the theater room. If the rack exhaust fan works well, I'll be getting a similar Can Max Pro for that purpose. If not, I may look for one of the other fans mentioned here.

I am a few weeks out before I'll have anything wired up to report further. Electrical is my next major theater / basement task, but I'm moving slow. If I get the rack fan spun up I'll report back.
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post #20 of 51 Old 03-18-2016, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Cool. Glad you have experience with it.

So... I can't tell from pics I've seen of it whether it has a lip suitable to attach flex duct. Does it? If not, how did you hook it up?

And, is it plug-in (wall plug) or direct wire?

How do you control the speed of the fan?
plugs into a standard outlet.
there's a knob that controls the fan speed attached to a very long wire that plugs into the fan.


re: connecting duct work - I just bought an 8" duct and duct taped it to the fan (slips right on)
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post #21 of 51 Old 07-16-2017, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Truly thanks for your feedback and bringing this thread alive, it's on my bucket list to add cooling to my AV rack, as it's got way more gear than originally planned back in 2007, so now I need to tackle that project.

What is your time frame to buy your inline fan?
I want to use one to remove heat from the below AV rack, I'll have it exit outside of the HT in the rec room
AV rack
@mtbdudex , did you ever get around to adding a cooling fan to your A/V rack?

I never did install an in-line fan. However, now that it's July here in Texas and I'm 90% done with my taking-forever project, I've decided I really DO need an intake fan. All my work to quiet my supply and return duct noise in my HT room (I proudly have NO audible noise from either) is unfortunately perhaps at the expense of reduced airflow. It's certainly reduced the FPM. Anyway, point is that w/my 2nd floor room positioned above my garage and with 2 1/2 exterior walls, I can't help but have heat building up in there unless I run the A/C to the point it is refrigerating the remainder of my upstairs too much.

With regards to your situation, I stumbled upon the SWF product from Soler & Palau that you may want to consider researching. Low profile. Quiet. Integrates into HVAC return duct. Instruction manual download is HERE. There's a 4" and a 6" version (duct diameter). Either runs ~$150 shipped.





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Kind of reviving this thread. My ceiling is actually gonna be a layin grid for reasons related to all the piping in place. I'm planning to leave two tiles out, and actually build some type of hush box that extends down through those two tile spaces (4x2' total) to house my projector.

Above the layin is some ceiling cavity. Under the insulation stuffed up there, thres prob between 4-8" of space. I'm wondering if I should just build this box with 120mm fans at the top side of the box to blow air in and out to and from that cavity, or try to duct the air over to my AC closet which is beside my theatre. This whole project is running way over budget so I'm leaning towards using the small case fans and see if that ceiling cavity is enough to keep the projector box cool before ducting it out.

Still figuring out how I'll build this out.

Also, for my rack, I installed a 4" flex duct before drywall in case I want to enclose my rack (which is sitting behind my screen/fabric wall) to hold the noise. Now, the rack I think will definately require a large inline fan, but I'll have to save that project for another year.

what are yall using for the front of the projector hush box for the lense to shine through? Are you just using a piece of glass cut and siliconed into the box?

Thanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhizzlebop View Post
Kind of reviving this thread. My ceiling is actually gonna be a layin grid for reasons related to all the piping in place. I'm planning to leave two tiles out, and actually build some type of hush box that extends down through those two tile spaces (4x2' total) to house my projector.

Above the layin is some ceiling cavity. Under the insulation stuffed up there, thres prob between 4-8" of space. I'm wondering if I should just build this box with 120mm fans at the top side of the box to blow air in and out to and from that cavity, or try to duct the air over to my AC closet which is beside my theatre. This whole project is running way over budget so I'm leaning towards using the small case fans and see if that ceiling cavity is enough to keep the projector box cool before ducting it out.
Using the cavity won't work unless it vents somewhere. It will fill with hot air very quickly and then you'll just be blowing hot air back into the hush box. The ideal method is to vent it into your HVAC return. The fans you're describing are OK as long as there's sufficient 'pull' in your ducting into the HVAC return system or if they are able to 'push' the air through the return line sufficiently. You want flow that is equal to or greater than the exhaust air output coming out of the PJ.


Quote:
what are yall using for the front of the projector hush box for the lense to shine through? Are you just using a piece of glass cut and siliconed into the box?
I can't speak to that from experience as I don't have a hush box. However, I believe many of them are simply open in the front.

EDIT: You'll cook your PJ if there is insufficient intake and exhaust air flow

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Last edited by HT Geek; 09-15-2017 at 08:01 AM.
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Gotcha,
Looking at the panasonic inline fans, looks that's gonna cost me about $200 for the fan. I had planned to drop a 4" duct to the hush box area, but this is making me wonder if I should try to squeeze 6" over there. Some comments were saying the fans were quiet but when you connect 4" duct, the fan gets loud. If I run the duct and go with the inline, then the 4" duct will require I run it about 10 ft.

Also, if I'm gonna have this expense, I'm now wondering if I should get one large inline fan, and wye off with a 4x4x4 splitter, and connect both the duct to the projector, and the one I previously ran to where the rack is.

The next animal is, that my room doesn't have dedicated cooling, and I really don't want to go tapping directly into my AC ductwork. If I dump the heat in my AC closet, I guess it'll slowly just get hotter in there, and eventually push heat out under the door. I guess as long as the space above the ceiling keeps pulling in ambient air to the hush box, that'll be fine if my AC closet gets warm. This closet is in the basement, so its NOTHING like what an airhandler would see in an attic (like my upstairs unit is).

However, this does give pause to my idea of putting my LED transformers in the AC closet. If I purposely blow heat INTO that closet, it'll specifically make those transformers run hotter in there. That means I now have to figure out somewhere else to put those things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Using the cavity won't work unless it vents somewhere. It will fill with hot air very quickly and then you'll just be blowing hot air back into the hush box. The ideal method is to vent it into your HVAC return. The fans you're describing are OK as long as there's sufficient 'pull' in your ducting into the HVAC return system or if they are able to 'push' the air through the return line sufficiently. You want flow that is equal to or greater than the exhaust air output coming out of the PJ.




I can't speak to that from experience as I don't have a hush box. However, I believe many of them are simply open in the front.

EDIT: You'll cook your PJ if there is insufficient intake and exhaust air flow
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Found this one on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV-...000EDUIX2?th=1

Makes me wish I had run a 6" to the rack. Thats about 15 ft of 4" flex stretched tight and straight.

If I run 6" to the projector, then i'll pretty much only pull air from the projector and not the rack, so I think a 6x4x4 splitter is the only option.

I can hang this thing on a couple iso clips, and wrap it in some dynamat, and if its inside my AC closet, it'll probably be quiet enough. Hopefully a lot of noise wont come down the thin uninsulated duct and reach the room.

thoughts?
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post #26 of 51 Old 09-15-2017, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhizzlebop View Post
Gotcha,
Looking at the panasonic inline fans, looks that's gonna cost me about $200 for the fan. I had planned to drop a 4" duct to the hush box area, but this is making me wonder if I should try to squeeze 6" over there. Some comments were saying the fans were quiet but when you connect 4" duct, the fan gets loud. If I run the duct and go with the inline, then the 4" duct will require I run it about 10 ft.
6" will get you a quiet experience. You will hear noise from the PJ vent off the 4". It won't be loud, but you'll hear it.


Quote:
Also, if I'm gonna have this expense, I'm now wondering if I should get one large inline fan, and wye off with a 4x4x4 splitter, and connect both the duct to the projector, and the one I previously ran to where the rack is.
Do you mean run 2x 4" flex ducts from PJ hush box to the fan? Can you do two wye's? A 6x4x4 and a 6x6x6? If you can, I would do that. Run 2x 4" flex ducts from PJ hush box to the 6x4x4. Plug the 6 side into your 6x6x6. Plug the other 6's sides of the 6x6x6 into your in-line fan and your 6" from the A/V rack. You will get a bit more pull from the A/V rack, but only because it's closer to the fan. You will get sufficient pull from the hush box.

Another idea would be restrict the pull from the A/V rack, but if you do that you'll increase the velocity (and noise). You'll still pull stronger from it due to proximity to the fan. It would increase flow from PJ hush box, but at expense of noise at A/V rack. If the rack is fully closed up, should be non-issue.

That fan is very quiet. You won't hear it. You will hear some air / wind noise.

Your best bet is a fan that you can control the speed via either onboard controller or a potentiometer (make sure to use one rated for motors).


Quote:
The next animal is, that my room doesn't have dedicated cooling, and I really don't want to go tapping directly into my AC ductwork. If I dump the heat in my AC closet, I guess it'll slowly just get hotter in there, and eventually push heat out under the door.
Yep.


Quote:
I guess as long as the space above the ceiling keeps pulling in ambient air to the hush box, that'll be fine if my AC closet gets warm. This closet is in the basement, so its NOTHING like what an airhandler would see in an attic (like my upstairs unit is).

However, this does give pause to my idea of putting my LED transformers in the AC closet. If I purposely blow heat INTO that closet, it'll specifically make those transformers run hotter in there. That means I now have to figure out somewhere else to put those things.
Between equipment, body heat, and PJ, your room is likely to get hot without HVAC of some sort. A few members who live in cooler climates and don't have HVAC in their room have reported no issues, but much depends on your usage of the room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhizzlebop View Post
That's an excellent fan.

Quote:
Makes me wish I had run a 6" to the rack. Thats about 15 ft of 4" flex stretched tight and straight.

If I run 6" to the projector, then i'll pretty much only pull air from the projector and not the rack, so I think a 6x4x4 splitter is the only option.
That's a reasonable plan.


Quote:
I can hang this thing on a couple iso clips, and wrap it in some dynamat, and if its inside my AC closet, it'll probably be quiet enough. Hopefully a lot of noise wont come down the thin uninsulated duct and reach the room.
Yep. That's going to be your Achilles Heel I'm afraid. The 4" flex duct that is.

So, let me explain my experience with return duct, airflow, and noise. In my build I have the following slightly convoluted setup for my return ducts:

Main grille 16x16 with dual 6" round flex duct
A/V Rack grille 6" round flex duct
Soffit mounted PJ grille 4" round flex duct

My main grille has dual 6" round flex ducts that route to a muffler, which dumps the air into an 8" round flex duct. That runs to my attic, where it feeds into a 8x8x10 "wye." From there it travels along a 10" flex duct for a few feet, then steps down to a 9" flex duct (the original room duct), and from there goes to a 2 cu ft plenum, and from there to a 12" flex duct that leads to the main return plenum.

Meanwhile, the other 8" port on the wye is fed from another wye that is an 8x6x6. The two 6" branches come from the A/V rack and the PJ vent. The PJ vent steps up from 4" to 6" before connecting to the 8/6/6 wye.

The PJ vent uses a 4" flex duct. The A/V rack uses a 6" flex duct.

Now... the part you're waiting for... noise.

I hear NOTHING from my main grille. Absolutely silent. The only reason I know it's working is if I place a piece of paper near it, and it gets sucked up and stuck to the grille. The A/V rack 6", I can hear it only if I'm very close (within 2') and right now there's no equipment in there so I expect it to be silent once the rack is full. The 4" PJ vent in the soffit is a bit of a sore point.

I have an in-line duct fan in the return apparatus. It is an 8" fan, about 8-10' from the step-down to the 9" duct in the attic. Pros and cons of using this fan:
  • My ductwork works a bit too well in terms of reducing velocity of the air; when HT room is in use, I really need the in-line fans on or the room gets too warm quickly
  • Return fan only adds some additional noise, but only bothers me relative to the 4" flex duct from PJ
  • I don't hear the fan itself in the HT room. Noise described above is wind noise.
  • I do hear increased noise in the form of wind velocity from the A/V vent and the PJ vent when the fan is on
  • Noise from the A/V rack vent (6" flex duct) is still only noticeable up close; I just notice it's stronger/slightly more wind noise when fan on
  • Fan on makes noise from 4" PJ vent much more noticeable vs with fan off

When there's any ambient noise in the room (talking, movie, music), I don't hear the PJ vent. It's only when the room is silent. No one else has noticed it. Just me. Go figure.

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Update: 8" In-Line Duct Fan HT Use

Figured it would be worthwhile to update everyone here on my experience with two in-line duct fans: the Vortex Powerfan VTX800 and the Hurricane 370 CFM. Both are 8" fans, and I've now been using them both for about 2 months.

Highlights of my observations:
  • Neither of these are advertised as being quiet (i.e. they are not a 'silent' version of either manufacturer's fans)
  • Both are installed in my attic. Outside my attic, I don't hear them.
  • So far (admittedly not very long), reliability has been good (no issues)
  • Bends in duct work really does make a difference in real-world application (i.e. few bends = you hear more wind noise; more bends = you don't)
  • Proximity to a fan impacts duct noise effect, even with bends (i.e. distance from registers/grilles in HT room to the fan)
  • Just because a fan is not rated 'silent' doesn't mean you can't use it; just means placement requires more forethought
  • I have the Hurricane (return) fan set to run at full power when it comes on
  • The Vortex (supply) fan is regulated by a potentiometer, which reduces its power (currently set at about 40%), since the fan will hit >750 CFM at full speed
  • Relays control when both fans are allowed to operate; a Z-Wave switch facilitates a manual override, but they are not allowed to activate unless the HVAC system is on

Cheapo Return Duct Fan
I installed the Hurricane 370 CFM Inline Duct Booster, 8-Inch ($59) in my HT room's return duct.




At just under $60, it was cheap. The fan looks cheap. It's heavy. The long (2" or so) fins for attaching flex duct were fantastic. The fan is actually a bit undersized. This made hooking up the flex duct a breeze. A bit too easy actually, as I had to be sure it didn't slip off while securing each side of flex duct with screws and tape.

The fan comes with a 3-prong NEMA-15 plug that's about 10' long, but I wanted permanent wiring that did not require me installing a new electrical junction box in a portion of my attic far from any other JB. Prior to installation, I cut off the cord, disassembled the small electrical box on the side of the fan, hard-wired it to NM-B (Romex) for my needs, and reassembled the fan.

The fan vibrates quite a bit (hey, it's cheap... I expected as much). This is an axial fan type (again, cheap). That means if there's any kind of object or imperfection in the straightness of your flex duct behind the fan, it's not going to like it. Axial fans essentially pull air from right behind the fan hardware. If you want to get a decent sucking action going, you must be sure it's straight just behind the fan. Otherwise, you'll reduce the fan performance and possibly reduce it's life expectancy if you run it at full power. This resulted in some limitations on where I could position the fan in my return duct, and unfortunately for me it meant I had to place it closer to my room vents than I would have preferred. Not a huge deal. Just not ideal.

The fan performs very well. I do NOT believe its rated CFM, but it works well for what it is.


$$$ Supply Fan
I made a conscious decision to spend more money on my supply fan, and less on my return fan. If budget were not an issue, I would have purchased two Soler & Palau silent grade fans and used one in each supply and return. Since I didn't want to spend $500 on two fans that no one besides me would appreciate, I opted to spend <$250 on two fans that were not 'silent' and decided I'd make them functionally silent or as close to that as I could.

I installed the Vortex Powerfan VTX800 (8") [$180] into my HT room's supply duct.




This thing is a true powerhouse. I tested it in my foyer (it comes with a NEMA-15 plug), and it proceeded to send a sudden blast of dust, dog hair, and who-knows-what-else shooting down the hall and into my kitchen, much to the dismay of my wife. I quickly turned it off after I got a mean glare from the receiving end of the air blast.

The VTX800 incorporates a centrifugal design. This means it rotationally spins the air as it's getting sucked in and pushed out. What that means in terms of application is the fan is capable of strong pull/push force even if there are bends and curves in the duct as the air spin is tightly focused (particularly on the push side), and allows the fan to produce a greater CFM force in a smaller package. This type of design is more versatile in terms of duct placement/position versus an axial fan, such as my return fan.

I recommend the use of adjustable clamps, such as these to help you ensure your duct work is well attached to the VTX800.




The lip on the sides of the fan where the flex duct attaches is IMHO very thin. To call it 1/2" would be generous. This is the one design flaw I noted with this fan. It's a great product with the exception of the attachment points for the duct. Of slightly lesser concern (and a also a con) is the mounting system. If you aren't able to position the fan a particular way between two studs, the mounting system is very awkward. I assembled the manufacturer's mounting system and then suspended it from rafters in my attic with cable straps. That's the only way I could make it work given the pre-existing constraints of my supply line. My other option would have been to add a significant amount of new flex duct to the run, which would have been more work and required me to re-route the majority of the line. Extended its length would have also slightly reduced the air flow, resulting in the need to run the fan faster.

Once you get it working, its performance is fantastic. I'm only running mine at ~40% of maximum speed. The fan is ~25-30' from the first vent. Unfortunately, I did not plan for this fan when I ran the original flex duct, so even at the throttled down speed I do hear some wind noise from my vent closest to the fan. I cannot hear any wind noise at the other supply vent in my HT room, which is several more bends and at least 50' from the fan.

It's incredible the difference the supply + return fans make in the climate of the room. When running both fans, with no equipment on in the room and with the A/C running, they will cool down my HT room about 3° cooler than the remainder of the house in less than 15 minutes. In fact, I've made it a practice to disable the supply fan unless there are at least several people in the room and the door is closed.
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i have attached a picture here of a plan view of the exhaust ducts.
I also tried to link it in to the post, but I'm not sure that worked. Can't figure out how.

Anyway, from the attachment, you can see the AC closet, the location of the rack behind the screen and the hush box in the ceiling.

The 4" to the rack is already in place hind the drywall. No way to remove it, add to it, or anything at this point. (errrrr,,,except........ The only way I could add, would be to abandon it, and run a 6" in the middle of the soffit there (which I was gonna fill with insulation), and let that become the rack exhaust and that 4" in the wall is just a wasted piece of duct I can never make use of.))

The 4" to the hush box is what I'm proposing. Then that nice Panasonic fan, the 250 CFM one, and use a 6" wye off the fan, split to the two 4" ducts, and suck the heat from both places at the same time. There could however be a little fan noise entering the room, and I don't know how well it would pull with the 4" ducts.

If I use 6" ducts, I'd have to shove it into the soffit, and it'll be all against my can lights when i push those up in the soffit, and generally in my way.

Hope that helps clarify what i'm saying.


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post #29 of 51 Old 09-15-2017, 12:00 PM
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My point about the transformers for the LED lighting. You'll notice, I had shown a spot behind my screen wall to hide them. However, if those thigs are noisy they need to go somewhere else. The next best place would be the AC closet. However, if the AC closet gets hot from dumping projector heat in there, then that's a bad idea.
If I duct the inline fan to take the heat and drop it out into the playroom, then it dumps noise right out into the playroom, which isn't ideal. I figured if I coudl contain it inside that AC closet, it would be pretty quiet.

While I'm mentioning the LED lighting do you guys know anything about that?

My understanding is, on the RGBW 300 led strips, that the 150 white chips at 24 volts are pulling 1.5 amps, whereas the 150 RGB chips are only pulling 0.5 amps per color channel. This means when wiring up several sets to a fibaro RGB controller, I'm limited by the white channel for total amps on the fibaro. If I just use RGB chips, then i can go wih 150 led strips, and again, only see .5 amps per color channel, and hook many strips to one Fibaro with no trouble.

Thanks
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post #30 of 51 Old 09-18-2017, 04:52 AM
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Any input is welcome! I attached a layout PDF a couple posts above.
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