Sound is bouncing off of every wall. Help me calm it down a bit. Please. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Sound is bouncing off of every wall. Help me calm it down a bit. Please.

Hi guys,

So, my "home Theater" is my living room (20' x 12' x 9' height) that opens up to a wide hallway. My front speakers are facing a leather sectional couch and all the walls are pretty much empty. I do have a large thick rug on hardwood floors and drapes that are very thin and usually are open (do not cover the two standard size windows).

I also play my piano and same issue ... sound could be better. Too much echo.

When playing surround hi res music I hear sound bouncing all over the place. With movies it's a bit better but still.

I am looking for a cheap and quick solution or at least a half decent solution to calm the echo and other sound imperfection down a bit.

I've looked at products like these on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1S815T8HSYNPL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1S815T8HSYNPL

I was also thinking of throwing a few pillows on the couch.

So ... what would be the quick and dirty solution? Since this is a living room ... trying to keep it NOT looking like a recording studio.

thank you.

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Panasonic TH50PX60U, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 11:05 AM
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You can actually get fabric printed with an art image, and then a panel made from that.

GIK Acoustics is one vendor, or you can order your own prints and Wrap them around a wood frame with compressed fiberglass acoustic panels

http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...oustic-panels/
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post #3 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You can actually get fabric printed with an art image, and then a panel made from that.

GIK Acoustics is one vendor, or you can order your own prints and Wrap them around a wood frame with compressed fiberglass acoustic panels

http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...oustic-panels/

That looks interesting. How many panels would I need? What are the #1 spots that need to have these panels? Directly across where front speakers point? Sides? corners?

also, anything wrong with the panels I found on Amazon?

thank you

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Panasonic TH50PX60U, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post
That looks interesting. How many panels would I need? What are the #1 spots that need to have these panels? Directly across where front speakers point? Sides? corners?

also, anything wrong with the panels I found on Amazon?

thank you
It's not as easy as just giving a general location. Reflection points will vary depending on your room dimensions and speaker placement. Where you sit in the room will also make the sound you hear vary too. If you are just using a standard 2x4' panel, it might be difficult to find an ideal placement without just moving them around. You could take the easy way out and just mount as many of them as possible on your side and rear walls. Also front corner bass traps should help too.

If you look at my theater, all of my walls floor to ceiling are technically covered with panels, with some small areas of foam left out near the top rear of the side walls.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

My previous theater used several panels like the ones you were looking at, but there was no rhyme or reason to their placement, other than they were centered between columns or open spaces on the walls. It did significantly cut down on the reverb but they were less than ideal on many levels
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

You could always just buy 8 or so panels, hang them, and see how it sounds, and move them if necessary. Or, you could hire someone to plan out your reflection points based on your room specs and do it properly. All of my treatments on my new theater were done by a pre-planned layout.

Here was my preliminary drawing, though we altered it to be a 1" side wall x 4" rear wall treatment. But it does show my reflection points drawn out as an example.

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post #5 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
It's not as easy as just giving a general location. Reflection points will vary depending on your room dimensions and speaker placement. Where you sit in the room will also make the sound you hear vary too. If you are just using a standard 2x4' panel, it might be difficult to find an ideal placement without just moving them around. You could take the easy way out and just mount as many of them as possible on your side and rear walls. Also front corner bass traps should help too.

If you look at my theater, all of my walls floor to ceiling are technically covered with panels, with some small areas of foam left out near the top rear of the side walls.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

My previous theater used several panels like the ones you were looking at, but there was no rhyme or reason to their placement, other than they were centered between columns or open spaces on the walls. It did significantly cut down on the reverb but they were less than ideal on many levels
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

You could always just buy 8 or so panels, hang them, and see how it sounds, and move them if necessary. Or, you could hire someone to plan out your reflection points based on your room specs and do it properly. All of my treatments on my new theater were done by a pre-planned layout.

Here was my preliminary drawing, though we altered it to be a 1" side wall x 4" rear wall treatment. But it does show my reflection points drawn out as an example.


Beautiful home theater. Great job.
I can only imagine the cost of just the room build ... no electronics.

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Panasonic TH50PX60U, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post
Beautiful home theater. Great job.
I can only imagine the cost of just the room build ... no electronics.
Thanks! As far as cost goes, there is a link to a spreadsheet in there which lists all of my costs for the entire build (approx, I might have missed a few things)
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Thanks! As far as cost goes, there is a link to a spreadsheet in there which lists all of my costs for the entire build (approx, I might have missed a few things)
And the beauty is that of that 36K you spent, your home value went up by at least that same amount if you ever need to sell. :-)

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post #8 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 06:44 PM
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The cheapest solution is almost surely to buy thick heavy curtains, replacing the existing ones. My room has lots of echo when empty, and the curtains made a very significant difference. But as said above, placing absorber panels on your main reflection points is also advised, and can make a tremendous improvement.
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-18-2014, 08:15 PM
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The answer depends on what the problem is.

If your main complaint is that the room is too 'live' or 'echoey' then it simply needs some more absorption. The screen printed absorption panels are a great idea. You could swap the curtains to something thicker, like a stage curtain (think heavy velour type material). You could add rugs (preferably woven, with no rubber backing and with a fibrous rug pad). Personally I'd keep that kind of treatment OUT of the reflection points unless you know what you are doing. You're just as likely to make some aspects of the sound worse by trying to treat reflection points with thin absorbers.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-19-2014, 05:11 PM
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As Nyal stated be careful about random application of absorbers.

Look at this chart, it visually shows the difference in possible freq absorption using different combinations of material thickness and air gap.

1" - forget it you are just EQ'ing your sound above 2,400hz at best case, not even handling the mid-range frequencies.
I went 2" material with 2" air gap.


This freq chart will also help you by showing what sound falls where
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post
Hi guys,

So, my "home Theater" is my living room (20' x 12' x 9' height) that opens up to a wide hallway. My front speakers are facing a leather sectional couch and all the walls are pretty much empty. I do have a large thick rug on hardwood floors and drapes that are very thin and usually are open (do not cover the two standard size windows).

I also play my piano and same issue ... sound could be better. Too much echo.

When playing surround hi res music I hear sound bouncing all over the place. With movies it's a bit better but still.

I am looking for a cheap and quick solution or at least a half decent solution to calm the echo and other sound imperfection down a bit.

I've looked at products like these on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1S815T8HSYNPL

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1S815T8HSYNPL

I was also thinking of throwing a few pillows on the couch.

So ... what would be the quick and dirty solution? Since this is a living room ... trying to keep it NOT looking like a recording studio.

thank you.
Hi,

I went ahead and recording a video response to your questions as its the best way for me to respond. You can see it here:

I hope that helps.

Thanks
Dennis

Chief Acoustic Engineer at Acousticfields.com. Listen to your music...without hearing your room!
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I went ahead and recording a video response to your questions as its the best way for me to respond. You can see it here:
http://youtu.be/ntO4aC0kWK4

I hope that helps.

Thanks
Dennis
very cool video response. So I guess my best solution is hope that my AVR Audyssey software does it's best to deal with the sound issue.

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post #13 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 04:52 PM
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I didn't hear any specific suggestions in Dennis' video. Certainly not a do nothing suggestion actually the opposite.
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post #14 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post
very cool video response. So I guess my best solution is hope that my AVR Audyssey software does it's best to deal with the sound issue.
No, I wouldn't suggest that. Audyssey even suggests a treatment strategy in conjunction with their room EQ. I will guarantee this though. Audyessey will screw up the calibration. I have yet to use it where it hasn't, and that is the pro version. I would suggest reading up on it thoroughly to know where the weaknesses lie.

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