power conditioners snake oil? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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power conditioners snake oil?

What's your take on them? I mean, I don't get it. You end up getting around 169 volts peak at 60hz, all your audio stuff converts that to dc before running it through variable frequency to create different tones from the speakers right? So what's it matter what kind of 1 or 2 volt difference you may, or may not get ac side wise?
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 06:45 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as to call them snake oil, because they do do what they claim to...

But whether or not you need that functionality, you're correct, as long as the line is within spec tolerances, the equipment will handle it. Now, analog devices can pass noise through, which is the bigger concern than a completely stable input voltage. So the filtering is more important than regulation, but even that can be argued as being 'needed' or not.

I have a power conditioner on my setup (Panamax) based on some personal experience (heard a transformer blow in my neighborhood a good second or two after I heard the Panamax conditioner clamp down into protection mode) - but I also got it cheap. In general, unless you're having noise problems, a good surge protector is probably enough.

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post #3 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 07:20 AM
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Projectors go through a cool down phase with the fan running after shut down for a reason, I always recommend a UPS for the projector circuit. If power is cut the residual heat in the bulb has no place to go other than the expensive insides of your light cannon.
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 07:53 AM
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New to AVS
I am trying to figure out if I need a power surge protector/conditioner. I have read various remarks as to different manufacturers customer service actions as well. Some good, some not so good. Panamax, Monster, APC, Surge X My head is spinning now, as to the research of all of the above, and the salesman saying all I needed was a Monster for about $160, I saw an APC marked down from $ 288.00 about $50 with 12 outlets and 5200 + Joules. What made me want to buy it over the cheaper Monster was the number of outlets and the NAME. Any thoughts here? Could I also connect an AV receiver to that for a SAMSUNG TV I am considering buying along with a BOSE CINEMATE SR ? Any advice would be very helpful to me. Thanks
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Projectors go through a cool down phase with the fan running after shut down for a reason, I always recommend a UPS for the projector circuit. If power is cut the residual heat in the bulb has no place to go other than the expensive insides of your light cannon.
So when I had the foresight to wire the new line for my PJ into an existing one, I thought I was doing it right.

But I really should have done a powerbridge type of solution where I could have a UPS input to it.

Figures
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 08:19 AM
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Monoprice has some as well, you should check them out. About $100 for the most expensive ones.
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
So when I had the foresight to wire the new line for my PJ into an existing one, I thought I was doing it right.

But I really should have done a powerbridge type of solution where I could have a UPS input to it.

Figures
not all is lost, you can just disconnect the wire feeding that circuit at the service panel and connect your UPS up to that circuit.
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 09:26 AM
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It has been debated before and just one of those things if you want it or not. Not to start another debate, but it is said that you should not plug your amps into them as you can hold them back. That's not from me, but from what I read. I myself bought a Panamax 5400 for clean even power. I also ran my cable through to help with any cable noise.
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post #9 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
not all is lost, you can just disconnect the wire feeding that circuit at the service panel and connect your UPS up to that circuit.
Yeah. And actually in my particular instance, it wouldn't be that much of a pain.
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-28-2014, 10:57 AM
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I put an inlet next to the existing outlet at the panel.
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-29-2014, 01:08 PM
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Advice on a power surge/ conditioner

I am trying to figure out if I need a power surge protector/conditioner. I have read various remarks as to different manufacturers customer service actions as well. Some good, some not so good. Panamax, Monster, APC, Surge X My head is spinning now, as to the research of all of the above, and the salesman saying all I needed was a Monster for about $160, I saw an APC marked down from $ 288.00 about $50 with 12 outlets and 5200 + Joules. What made me want to buy it over the cheaper Monster was the number of outlets and the NAME. Any thoughts here? Could I also connect an AV receiver to that for a SAMSUNG TV I am considering buying along with a BOSE CINEMATE SR ? Any advice would be very helpful to me. Thanks[/QUOTE]
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-29-2014, 11:41 PM
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FWIW, I just picked up a SurgeX myself, however I was REALLY tempted by the $500 Monster HTUPS 3700 on Amazon. I haven't installed the SurgeX, so I can't comment on it at this time, I plan to install it on Monday when I have the help of a friend to move some things around in my cabinet.

Now I'm trying to find a decent 1U power distribution block that displays the watts and/or amps being used on the front (with little to nothing else on the front).

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post #13 of 16 Old 08-31-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post
Monoprice has some as well, you should check them out. About $100 for the most expensive ones.

I'm using a monoprice conditioner. Might very well be a scam, but at least the monoprice one is an affordable scam.
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-01-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn_Star View Post
What's your take on them? I mean, I don't get it. You end up getting around 169 volts peak at 60hz, all your audio stuff converts that to dc before running it through variable frequency to create different tones from the speakers right? So what's it matter what kind of 1 or 2 volt difference you may, or may not get ac side wise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
It has been debated before and just one of those things if you want it or not. Not to start another debate, but it is said that you should not plug your amps into them as you can hold them back. That's not from me, but from what I read. I myself bought a Panamax 5400 for clean even power. I also ran my cable through to help with any cable noise.
The reason it is recommended to not plug heavy amps into these devices is because they have the ability to draw more current than the power protection system can handle and will blow the power protection device's fuse. The majority of power protection devices are rated at 15 amps. This forces you to plug amps directly into the wall where they ostensibly have *ZERO* protection from any spikes and surges.

You might say "well, that's OK because the rest of my equipment is protected."....when in reality it is not. A surge can go through the amp and take out other equipment connected to the amp, like the preamp and therefore all the source equipment as well. There are instances where power has come through unprotected coax cable into a power protected system and destroy all the connected equipment in the system.

In short, if you use an AVR or have a single traditional multichannel amplifier, I'd get the 20A power protection device and put everything on it. There's little chance you'll ever draw anything close to 20A until your system gets fairly elaborate. Many of the mid-sized systems may pull 14-16 amps, even with powered subs connected to the same device. If your plan is a larger system with multiple heavy duty amplifiers or a distributed AV system with lots of equipment in common racks, I'd recommend you upgrade to an isolation transformer which is the only device that has the extra current physically stored in the device to handle ALL the equipment at the same time, including the heavy amps. Yes, these things promote filtering and voltage regulation but, like Jautor, it's not top at my list of features. Having sufficient current available to cover peak current draw spikes is most definitely the feature to have for a larger system. Think Torus, Richard Gray, Equitech.

A compromise would be to install a quality surge/lightning protection device at the panel and then plug the amps into the wall directly and everything else on a power protection device. Like BIGMouth says, find a way to integrate a UPS either inherently in the protection device or as a separate unit plugged into the power protection system so you can execute a cool-down power off sequence if the power goes out. I also like to plug my DVRs, network items, digital phone system, automation system and a handful of other key devices where a momentary power blip would be annoying and cause a delay to 'reboot'.
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-05-2014, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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so i can understand the ups for the projector. and that is something i will get for my upcoming build, as far as lighting protection though, lightning can jump these gaps created by the internal safety relays. i can see them eating the transient voltages. but so will a decent surge protector. my real question is this. what does a "perfect 60hz sine wave" help my equipment that will most likely change it back to dc anyway. i have read these reponses and enjoyed it. but there is still my main unanswered question.

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post #16 of 16 Old 09-05-2014, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn_Star View Post
what does a "perfect 60hz sine wave" help my equipment that will most likely change it back to dc anyway.
For the people selling the products, it's everything. In practical application, not much as most devices can easily handle all the ripples in power. Case closed.

As a side note, I've never seen lighting jump both a voltage protection device at the panel AND the circuitry of a decent power protection device at the rack. Many of the panel protection devices have connected equipment warranties, which is a good fail-safe just case something happens to get through.
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