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Doug's Basement Theater

64K views 532 replies 59 participants last post by  DavidK442 
#1 · (Edited)
I have just finished remodeling my living room (tag at the bottom of the page), so now I'm on to our partially finished basement which will be completely torn out. Wife wants this done yesterday, but I'm looking at 2 years to complete. We have a revolving door for the neighborhood kids and my daughter can't spend 5 seconds without a friend over, so we want a place for them to relax that is a different place than the one where Wife and I relax. We will also build in a bedroom, full bath, and kitchenette for a place for the folks to stay when they visit. I really enjoy my music and scifi, so soundproofing to the upstairs is greatly stressed for this project as my wife does not appreciate my listening sessions that last long after she has gone to sleep. This won't be a big HT and I don't have a huge budget. I have 8' ceilings and a ceiling support every 11'. Each one is right in the way, so this will be a narrow and long theater. Final size will be determined once I get everything ripped out, but it will be about 10x26 with an extra 3 feet on one side at the front and 8 feet on the same side at the rear entry. I'm a saltwater reef geek, so I will be incorporating an existing 270 gallon reef tank in the wall at the rear of the room.

I will demo, design, upgrade the electrical panel, and work on soundproofing over the next year. Everything else the next year. I will do all of the work myself and will try to take plenty of photos along the way. I need to learn Sketchup and then I will get some plans posted up.

Here is what I have planned:
- single row of seating
- 2nd row bar seating
- LCR dual LAB15 MBM and Mackie SRM450
- Dual Stereo Integrity HS24 nearfield sealed subs
- Two Othorns
- Two Gjallarhorns
- 130" 2:35 AT screen
- HTPC, JRiver, iRule, Insteon lighting
- Panasonic PT AE8000U
- 270 gallon in-wall reef tank
- new 200amp panel
- rock veneer existing fireplace
- install a sump pump
- carpet flooring

Here is what I did:
- single row of seating
- 2nd row bar seating
- NAD 758 v3 AVR with 12 channels of Dirac Live
- MiniDSP balanced 2x4 with Advanced 4-way plugin for sub EQ and delay
- JTR Neosis 210rt for 2ch music
- 11 Radian 5210 coaxials
- Dual Stereo Integrity HS24 nearfield sealed subs
- Two Othorns
- Sanway fp14000 amps for subs
- Behringer iNuke nu4-6000 for the 4 Atmos speakers
- Crown xti 4002 for main speakers
- 130" 2:35 AT screen, Seymour Premier frame and Enlightener 4k screen
- HTPC, JRiver, Harmony Elite remote, Insteon lighting
- JVC rs400
- 270 gallon in-wall reef tank
- new 200amp panel
- rock veneer existing fireplace
- install a sump pump
- carpet flooring
- Summit dual keg cooler

edit: new size 7' 8" ceiling, 13'6" wide, 19' long HT area, 6' x 13' open space at the entry - 2464.5 cu ft.



Resources:

Harmon Target Curve
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2895049-nad-758-v3-25.html#post55266996

Link

Creating a target curve in Dirac Live
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...ns And Reviews&txt=Custom Dirac Target Curves

I like these seats
http://4seating.com/sofas-and-sectionals/seatcraft/seatcraft-niagara-theater-sectional.htm

http://4seating.com/home-theater-seating-palliser/palliser-stereo-41454-home-theater-seating.html

http://www.monarchsofas.com/suze.html

QR Dude 3d diffuser software:
http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrdude.htm

SPI Specialty Products and Insulation - 7x 2" 2x4 Roxul panels $37
1700 Jasper Street
816-842-4900

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

custom printed fabric
http://www.spoonflower.com/

images
http://www.dreamstime.com/




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#2 · (Edited)
Some pics of the current "Wreck Room," land of Barbies, crafts, couch and giant subwoofer purgatory.

This will be the back. The bathroom will be expanded to include a shower


The screen wall will be to the left of the support poles


This is extra space and the entry from upstairs and the garage. This might be a good place for the kitchenette if I can figure out a drain


The bedroom is to the back left and will continue through the wall on the left


Another view of the bathroom area. The kitchenette might be to the right of the door and go a couple of feet past the sweet American Girl doll hot air baloon


This fireplace is in the way...


Here's a photo of the reef tank that will be in-wall before the entry of the room. Most of these corals will be moved from this 220 upstairs to the 270 in the basement after it is moved:
 
#3 · (Edited)
Part 1 finished two days ago by ripping out the wall at the entrance to the HT to accommodate the reef tank.









Part 2 finished complete today which involved moving the 900 pound reef tank by myself. I put most of the water and corals in some large Rubbermaid stock tanks, left just enough for the fish to stay upright, padded the glass from the rocks with whatever I could find, then jacked and cribbed the tank on stand onto furniture dolleys and moved it into place. Start to finish: 6 hours

[
 

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#4 · (Edited)
Filled these up with the existing tank water



Braced the tank to the vase so it wouldn't slide off and jacked it up on to some furniture trucks



http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=354249&d=1415425441[/img


Rolled it across the room, lowered it in to place, put everything back in

[img]http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=354257&d=1415425519
Now I can start measuring things out for the HT
 

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#7 · (Edited)
She's a biggun! My legs and back are feeling it today.



Subscribed.


I'll do my best to entertain ;)

Here's a little better view of what I have to work with. You are looking at the screen wall at the end of the room:



This chair is where the MLP would be


View from the chair
 

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#10 ·
So true. I have been getting rid of stuff so I don't have to move it again. Getting the couches out and moving the rank really opened things up.

Still can't believe moving the tank was a one man job. :)



This is gonna be good. :cool:

Work smarter, not harder.

I need to remove that support pole. That thing is killing me. I'm thinking about getting an engineer in there to see how big of a beam would have to go in to remove the lolly pole.
 
#14 ·
Yep, you sure can - and the mic stand too. I just put my 20' usb cable in the wall so you will need to get ahold of one or move your laptop around with the mic. The cord that it comes with is only 6' long.
 
#15 ·
The treadmill and spin bike will probably go in one of the spare bedrooms. I'm a run/bike outside or go to the gym type of guy, so they don't get much use. I like to have them around for when I get a wild hare though. There will be just enough room behind the seating for a bar with room for the bar stools and walkway to the kitchenette and bathroom. As much as I wanted to have two rows of seating, it looks like one row plus bar will give me the best floor plan without cramping things up.
 
#18 ·
Looking good Doug. I was so glad to see that the new dimensions are a bit wider. Going from 10 to 12 ft is huge. It might still be challenging but can be done. I feel you on the ceiling height. Its a bummer and could be tight for the second row to see the screen. Did you find out anything on the support beams?
 
#20 ·
...Did you find out anything on the support beams?

If I can get rid of the beam, I can get the room 15' wide at the front - width restricted by the furnace room on the front right. I haven't found a structural engineer to do the math yet. I could do the math, but I will get a permit for this one. I will install it myself unless welding plates to the existing beam is suggested. The lower the beam gets, the lower the screen will have to be to be.
 
#22 ·
I'd suggest drawing something out on paper... first thing that comes to mind for me is that with the length of your room, you'll have difficulty squeezing in three rows of seating (even if the second row is a stationary couch). My room is about the same length and for comfortable viewing distances, two rows seems optimal with the riser being 6.5-7 feet deep.
 
#23 ·
I will only use the one row of seating plus a bar top with bar stool seating behind the primary row of seating. I was hoping for two good rows and the bar top, but there needs to be a walkway in the back. I agree with the drawings - I can bind a novel with my drawings so far!
 
#25 ·
I found a structural engineer to help me figure out what I can do with the Lolly pole that stands in the middle of the HT. That's what the annoying poles are called that hold up the beams that keep the upper floors out of the basement. The engineer is concerned about the headroom with adding a larger beam, but says it can be done if municipal codes permit. Also if PJ to screen angle permits. If it won't work, I'm only out $350 and won't always wonder "what if?" and if it does work, I will have papers showing that science proves my work is safe. 12' is the MAX span between Lolly poles in my home using a 4x8" I beam. Stay tuned.
 
#532 ·
I hired Bob Quick owner of Royal Engineering in Lee's Summit to see if I could move my lally pole 18". He came and went in less than 10 minutes. He took no measurements or pictures, didn't even pull out a tape measure, and just looked at the room, at the 8" I-Beam where it was exposed in the HVAC room, and said you can move that pole 18" without an issue. He said pour a new concrete footing 2 foot deep and 18" wide to support it, after breaking out the location with a jackhammer. He said use # 4 rebar if I wanted, but it wasn't necessary in answer to my ask if I needed to use rebar. Use no less than a 3.5" wide lally pole he said.
Every question I asked, he just basically said moving the pole 18" wouldn't be a problem he'd been doing this a long time, and moving it 3' to 5' is when he'd want to start doing more analysis. He said if the steel I-beam deflected at all it would be so minimal as to not damage anything, joints, drywall, doorframes etc. He said he's seen houses where the beam was moved 3-5' and even there, 30 years later there was no effect.

My wife and I were left wondering if we got a solid analysis because one of the other engineer I called (who wanted over 2x's as much money for his evaluation) said he'd have to look into the attic to make sure the roof supports could support the difference in load bearing position, and he'd want to calculate the load on the pole in the first and second floors above. Mr. Quick didn't walk upstairs, or even into the master bedroom immediately above the home theater room, he basically walked in the house, said moving a lally pole 18" should be fine, we walked down to the basement, he looked at where the pole is now, and then walked into the HVAC room to see the I-beam uncovered, and then said I was good and it'd present no problem and he'd send me a letter of structural review so I could pursue a permit. I got the letter within a couple hours.

Mr. Quick is a certified engineer, and he's been doing it a long time, but I guess I expected a little bit more than just a quick walk through and A-OK.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I found the original blueprints. The upper right is the screen wall, with the seats being to the left

 

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#29 ·
Today the plan is to have two GH and two OH behind the screen wall and some neafield something behind the seats disguised as the bar. It changes every few days ago. I submitted all of the info and drawings to the engineer though so just waiting to hear back from him about what kind of space I have to work with. Then I can really dig in to drawing out some good plans!
 
#31 ·
Nice, Tedd, I like it. I was wondering what to do with the rear and side surrounds. Moving the a/v closet somewhere else would give more room at the bar top behind the seating. My surrounds are up 9' in my media room, so I hope to find a way to get them closer to ear level.
 
#34 ·
This was the original place for the a/v rack, but I worry about moisture in there. I have a drain for the humidifier of the furnace a foot from that position. The lolly post you mentioned would be right on the end of the bartop behind the MLP. How could I ever forget about that little gem?! It won't be too bad there if that's what happens. That I can work with.

I have been working on the rooms behind the scenes in the basement. Getting all of the 800 gallons of saltwater tanks and equipment moved and organized takes quite a bit of planning, building, and moving things around. It will turn two big and complex reef systems into one and give me another 60 sq feet of space in the bedroom I'm putting in by doing so.

Patiently waiting for the structural engineer to send me some plans...
 
#35 · (Edited)
That wouldn't be the first time I've seen a lolly post at the bar end. It's a pretty solid solution. Years ago, I disguised
a lolly post in my space, with a low knee wall, some round plywood disks and Fleck Stone paint. People were always
surprised to hear it was a support post. I also used that paint to finish out the basement window boxes around my small
basement windows.


http://www.hawklabs.com/stone-flecks-countertop-paint.html


The drain could have a cover installed and the hose for the dehumidifier be drilled and given a
rubber grommet. The av rack could also be given a solid side, and a gasketed door for access. Then it would
be a self contained closet, in a bigger closet.


I always seemed to be constantly moving building materials out of my way, but a salt water aquarium move,
seems way more work. :eek:
 
#36 · (Edited)
I have the plan: I will be able to fit everything in to the design without adding to the beam or bringing in a new one ($$$). I could go front to back of the room by having the beam reinforced and removing the poles, but the cost is more than the gain. So, I will be installing a pole in the front of the room that will hide behind the screen wall and another behind the seating at the end of the bar as discussed above. I will have to cut out holes in the floor to pour concrete piers for the poles, set the poles, and then the pole in the middle will be removed. This cost savings translates in to a nice PJ, AT screen, and two fp14000 clones. The pole at the end of the bar won't be in the way of the side or rear surrounds and won't be visible from the seated positions, so no big deal. I couldn't make the screen any wider because of the width of the room so the seats really can't be any further back to get the 45-52 degree angle from MLP to the screen.

The MLP will be 11'6" from the screen wall.
I will use 50 degrees for the left and right speakers.
I will have a 45 degree viewing angle to the screen
I am thinking a 130" AT Seymour XD screen from Jamestown Screens
Epson PL 3500 PJ

The surround speakers (DIYSG Volt-8) will be angled toward the seats from the soffits at the ceiling which isn't ideal, but it will have to do. They will be 7' from the floor. I was hoping to get them in a position to be 2' above ear level. I will use some flanking nearfield subs as end tables, possibly small sealed Sundown zV4 18s. The other subs and mains I'll figure out down the road after the rest is complete.
 
#37 ·
Soundproofing the ceiling:

Is gluing sheetrock to the ceiling between the floor joists going to help much for mass loading?

Should I use 1/2" OSB before clips and two layers of sheetrock and GG, or just use the clips and sheetrock?
 
#38 ·
Soundproofing the ceiling:

Is gluing sheetrock to the ceiling between the floor joists going to help much for mass loading?

Should I use 1/2" OSB before clips and two layers of sheetrock and GG, or just use the clips and sheetrock?
I'm not a doctor...but I watch a lot of House. I believe House would OSB the $hit out of your basement ceiling.
 
#42 · (Edited)
^^
I haven't done either because I may not even add whisper clips, so might just keep current sheetrock layer and just add the gg and one more layer of sheetrock. But if I were to tear down the ceiling and fill up gg/dd between the joists, my concern would be the plumbing/wiring/insulation/etc I would have to work with, let alone the maze of drywall tetris.

In your situation, I think whisper clips, hat channels, then 3 flat layers of sheetrock will have plenty of mass...but hanging 3 layers is also bit of a challenge...reaching a joist will just require longer nails and making sure it's all secure...that is a lot of weight on top.

You're probably reducing at least 6 dB with each layer of sheetrock/gg.

With your GH and the 24's, you'll probably be not running both full tilt at all times either....the basement will be the only place you would worry about disturbing civilians in living areas above. With the GH in the main area of your house, everyone is partying it up whether they like it or not ;)
 
#43 · (Edited)
I spoke with John from Soundproifing Supply today and decided to go with the two layers of rock between the joists and clips and two layers of rock. I'll get at least some gg ordered tomorrow so I can get started on the mass layers.

Kind of the chicken before the egg here, but I received the rest of my 6 LAB15s today for my mains. I love getting boxes delivered!

 

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#46 ·
This and double sheets of rock up the stairwell, weatherstripping around the door, another 3/4" of mdf on the door, and hvac treatments. That's about as crazy as I'm going to get with sound isolation.

If you're putting that much into it, you might want to look at moving to Colorado. They've got something legal there that will push your movies to the next level.

What's that?! ;)
 
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