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Whisper Mountain Theater Build

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#1 · (Edited)
This is my build thread for my 2nd theater, The Whisper Mountain Theater. This is a placeholder post for the final details and pictures, but also the overall summary and index. Hopefully I'll do better in my build thread than I did for my last one 10 years ago.

Very High-Level Summary
More detail will follow in the following posts, but here’s the skinny.
  • This is my 2nd theater build
  • This is a small theater (12'3" x 17'4" x 10' finished size)
  • Grade-Level theater (no basement)
  • Dedicated single-purpose room
  • Basic soundproofing
  • Mix of already owned equipment and some new (and some on the horizon)
  • Not an AT Screen (room size dictates that)
  • Probably a 110" or 120" 16x9 screen
  • 2 rows of seats, stage, riser, soffits, columns
  • Shipping is a feature (I will try to make this a quick-ish build)


Build Index
The Plans
The Original Space
The Equipment Closet Build
The Electrical Plan and the subsequent Electrical Find and Extra Circuits
The Wall Demolition
The Ceiling Demolition
The One About the Door Hole
The Nail Ninja (or The One About the Nails in the Ceiling)
The Drywall Between the Joists Effort
RedStripe88's Excellent Help with Airflow Numbers (and his subsequent corrections)
Existing Airflow Testing
The [Original] Door Install
The Drywall Boom and Scatter Service Discussed HERE and HERE
The One Where I Passed My First Inspection
The New HVAC Plan
Rock'd
The Soffits and the Soffit Bottoms
The Riser Build
Let There Be Light
Inspection Number 2 Passed
The Columns
Closing Up the Riser and Stage
The Door (re)Install - Plus bonus Havasu Falls Pic
Low Voltage Termination in the Closet (end of this post)
Finishing the Drywall
Painting and Color
Trim, Frames, and Finishing
Carpet Choice
Carpet and Panels
Final Theater
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Finished Product

This post was reserved for the final Whisper Mountain Theater post. Here is the completed theater, and below, for the rest of the posts, you'll see the build as it progressed.

This theater was my second dedicated theater build, and was a bit smaller than my first. This was built in a bonus room, or second family room, in a house we moved into in June of 2014 in Mesa, AZ. The other family room was turned into a multi-purpose game room, theater lobby, gathering area, TV area, etc., and housed the equipment closet as well (which was built as part of this). We used engineered hardwood (acacia wood) for the floor of the game room, decorated it with a theater motif, and housed a portable ping pong table, a TV and in-ceiling speakers for that TV. The theater itself was closed off and sound-proofed (using Green Glue and double 5/8 drywall), and sealed up.

Here is the finished product.


First, here is a shot towards the theater door (on the left) of the game room from the kitchen area.




Next is another in the game room directly into the theater and the equipment closet.




Here is a shot from the back/left of the theater toward the screen.




And looking toward the back from the screen area near the front/right.




Here is the same view from the front/left.




And finally, the view standing in the game room as you enter the theater.

 
#3 ·
Now I can get into a little more detail.

Summary
We just moved back to the Phoenix area from San Diego in June 2014 and moved into a 9-year-old home in Northeast Mesa. One of the (few) things we missed while living in San Diego was our theater that we built 10 years ago in our last home in Mesa, so when we moved back we knew we wanted to do another one. Our house backs up to Whisper Mountain...thus the working name of the theater. It's a two story frame and stucco job (typical for the area), sadly with no basement (also typical around here, although my neighborhood is semi-custom, and many of my neighbors added basements to their plans). The theater will be converted from a "2nd Family Room" that is adjacent to the main family room on the first floor (post tension slab as a floor). The ceilings throughout the house are 10 feet, so I have plenty of room in that direction, but the rest of the theater dimensions are fairly constrained. This room makes my last theater (which I thought was pretty small at the time) seem downright palatial.

Dimensions
12' 3" wide by 17' 4" long by 10' high
The tight quarters have necessitated some compromises to both the soundproofing and the finished audio quality, but they are compromises we can live with based on the other requirements. Our basic requirements include two rows of seats (to seat 6 or 7 people), separate and dedicated room, and some sound isolation. Planning on 5.2 sound, but will wire for 7.2.4 for future upgrade/expansion. I considered 7.1 for the initial build, but in this small of a room with the 2nd row so close to the rear of the room, I think it might sound worse rather than better.

Plans
Our first theater was built about the time green glue hit the market back in 2004, and I used it with double drywall and a sealed room approach to try to contain sound. It worked pretty well, actually, so we know what to expect in this one…because we are going to forego the clips and channel again. This time due to space constraints (last time I didn’t do it because I simply didn’t know about it, if I remember correctly). I guess it’s more appropriate to say for space AND cost constraints, as I know I could use those special clips that recess in the studs and joists so that the hat channel runs parallel, but those suckers are expensive! Add to that the fact that two of my walls will not be demolished (the two others and the ceiling will have its sheetrock removed as part of the build) and it didn’t make sense to do clips and channel…especially since we know exactly what to expect. The statement I made to my wife was, “Well, if we do it the way I’m thinking of, the soundproofing will be very similar to our last theater. For a lot of expense and labor I can make it even better. What do you want to do?” Her answer was, “Well, just do it like our last one…it was really good.” That sealed it for me. No clips and channel, just double drywall and green glue.
The size of the room also dictated another compromise…no AT screen and false/baffle wall. While I really wanted to go that route this time, there is simply not enough space to still have two rows. Even without doing it there is barely enough space. So that had to change as well. The speakers will be to the side of the screen and the center channel underneath (or above, if I am convinced this is better and I can pull it off).

So, that’s the soundproofing and the screen. Here is a list of a few of elements of the theater as planned currently.
  • Stage (probably around 10”)
  • Riser (probably 14”-16”)
  • 110” or 120” 16x9 screen (I want the 120”, but I might not be able to squeeze the 120” in there, so still thinking on this one).
  • Soffits all around, probably 18”x12”.
  • Crown molding as a light tray on the soffits with up-lighting (probably LED rope lights…I’m experimenting with color changing models)
  • Some sort of columns (I know…in this small of a room it seems like a waste, but I need the columns to house the power outlets, sconce lights, and speaker wire since I won’t have holes in my outer sound shell).
  • Can lighting in the soffits
  • Two sconce lights on two side columns
  • Re-using two existing 15A circuits instead of running new electrical circuits
  • New equipment closet built outside the theater in the main family room (will be the game room)
  • Insteon lighting throughout (I already use an Insteon system with ISY hub for other parts of the house)
  • Sound Treatments for the finished room (currently working with GIK Acoustics to figure that out)

Shipping is a Feature
And speaking of the “features” of the theater, I’ll say one last thing. For us, shipping is a very important feature. I’m in the software business, and we often say that shipping is a feature, too. Let me say that I’m in awe of the amount of planning and dedicating that many AVSers put into their theaters. I won’t be one of them. I’ve got a couple of teenage boys and another almost teenage boy that keep us very busy. We travel a lot (I’ll be gone a LOT of the summer) and we have a great tow-boat (it’s a Tige if anyone cares ) and spend a lot of time on the local lakes from April until September, and we have a bunch of other also important stuff (including a busy job that finances all of this fun), so I can’t have this theater build hanging over me for months and months (or even years)…so I will try to make this a quick-ish build. I finished my first theater in about 3 months (and that included a break for Christmas), but I worked very hard on it and took some significant vacation days to be able to do that. I think this one might take a tad longer for a couple of reasons (I’ll explain later), but I want it to be about that. So, I keep telling myself when I go into rat holes in my planning…shipping is a feature, too…so let’s ship it. I can always refactor later. I think this being my second theater will help (there really wasn’t anything major I wanted to change about my last one). We don’t even know if we will stay in this house long-term, but we loved our last theater and used the hell out of it, so we wanted to have one again.

Equipment
I currently have quite a bit from my last theater that I’m going to reuse at least initially…but a few equipment purchases to make.
Currently have waiting:
  • LCR Speakers: Polk Audio RTi70 Towers and a matching horizontal center channel (CSi 40)
  • Surround Speakers: Polk Audio f/xi 3 bipole/dipole surrounds
  • Projector: Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 8100
  • AV Reciever: Deonon AVR-889
  • Xbox One
  • Seats: I have two motorized recling sofas that we will likely start with in the theater

To purchase for launch of this theater:
  • Two Subwoofers (currently leaning heavily toward SVS PB-1000s and have spoken to SVS about this room for advice).
  • New screen. I’ll probably go cheap on this…maybe Elite Screens or Silver Ticket. Haven’t decided on size or brand, but it will not be acoustically transparent () and will be white.
  • New Blu-ray Player (planning on the Oppo BP-103)

Fast upgrades after launch of theater (unless I can’t wait)
  • New AVR – Leaning toward Denon AVR-x4100 (or other model with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 for better bass management). I have off and on considered some Imotiva seperates gear…but I’m just not sold yet. We’ll see.
  • New Speakers – I may audition some other speakers once everything is up and running. I have always really liked my Polks, but I know there are other speakers out there that I’ll likely like better. But that’s gravy once we’re up and running.
  • Theater Recliners – Leaning towards the Fusion Jive from Roman (http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionCollection/FC-Jive-1013.html) because of their space-saving qualities. We could squeeze rows of 3 and 4 if we choose to.

Compromises
As I’ve mentioned, out choices are not without compromise. First, two fit two rows in this theater means that the front row will be a little too close (about 10’ viewing distance) and the back row will be a little too far away (~ 16.5’), and since the back row will be so close to the rear wall, audio quality will be less than perfect. Also, not being able to get a false wall in there with an AT screen will limit the possible size of the screen, the aspect ratio choices, etc.
All of this was taken into account during the decision-making process, and we prioritized the most important things for us. I’ve come to grips with the fact that I won’t have it all. It won’t be the best sounding theater, and it won’t have the perfect viewing angles, or the most space to spread out. It won’t have the largest screen, or the deepest base, or even close to the best sound-proofing, but I know we will enjoy the space, though…and that’s what is important. We had a dedicated theater before, and we were surprised by how much we used it (even just for quiet reading sometimes), and with the kids and their friends being older now…we know this will be a popular place in the house. In fact, my wife mentioned the other day that we would probably end of relegated to watching movies in our bedroom while the kids and their friends bogarted the theater. Oh well, small price to pay for having the kids here enjoying themselves with their friends rather than out who-knows-where doing who-knows-what with who-knows-who. Other parents of teenagers will understand. ;)
 
#4 · (Edited)
The Space

Here is the overall floor plan of the main floor of our house so you can see where the theater is in relation to everything else. The theater will be in the room labeled “Family Room 2”. The main family room (open to the kitchen and the rest of the house) will be converted into a game room. We are replacing the carpet with hardwood floors (already purchased, but waiting until the theater construction is done to lay it down so as not to damage the wood floors during construction).
Plan Technical drawing Text Diagram Floor plan


The rooms, as it existed before construction started, had this layout. This shows where the current outlets and switches were, as well as the open archway to enter the room.
Line Text Parallel Diagram Rectangle


That archway will be closed off, and equipment closet will be built outside the theater in the game room (upper right of this picture) and a new door installed on that wall. Something like this:
Technical drawing Floor plan Plan Drawing Line


This is what the room looked like just prior to demolition.
Room Property Floor Wall Architecture


That shows the archway, obviously. Here is another shot looking the other way, but before all of the stuff was cleared out of the room (it was storing all the wood flooring for the game room before construction began, as well as the theater equipment, etc.).
Room Interior design Floor Building Furniture


As of now, the plan for the finished theater is this:
Technical drawing Floor plan Plan Drawing Diagram


That last one is a little busy, but shows pretty much all of the elements, including speakers, columns, soffits, stage, risers, outlets, future seating, etc. The screen width shown is a 120” 16x9 screen, but I may end up having to do a bit smaller. We’ll see.
There is an existing window behind the screen, but that will be closed off.

Hopefully that helps give a big picture of my plans. Always open to suggestions. And welcome to my newest adventure.
 
#5 · (Edited)
The Equipment Closet Build

Before starting any of the demo in the main room...and before doing anything, really, I decided to build the equipment closet. This was the first real start of this build. As stated above, the equipment closet is to be outside this theater next to the yet-to-be-installed entry door from the game room (current family room).

I started by cutting a rectangle out of the carpet (this floor will have a wood floor installed as part of the finish of the theater build) where the equipment closet will go. I'm leaving the carpet in place in this room because it's still going to be used as a working family room/TV room during the build, so the existing carpet will stay down as long as possible to cut down on noise, dust, and increase comfort. It's on it's way out, though.
Wall Property Plaster Room Floor


I also removed the existing baseboard, carpet pad, etc., and cleaned up the area on the slab to get ready for the framing.
Room Floor Basement Furniture Living room


Then I got started on building the framed walls. I used 2x3 lumber to conserve a little space since this is a tiny closet (about 2'x3' inside).
Floor Wood Table Flooring Architecture


I placed the frames in place, and screwed them together. I also place two anchor boards on the existing walls screwed into studs to help hold the framing in place. In addition, I used concrete screws in two places at the base plate to hold it on the slab.
Room Wall Architecture Furniture Door


Then I built up the bottom of the rough in for the door. I didn't want this to be a regular door as it is to be sort of hidden. For that reason we decided to raise the door up and make it more of a portal that you would step through, not into. I wanted the bottom of the door to be above the likely area where any baseboard will be (we still don't know exactly how we're going to finish the closet...it may not just be painted, textured drywall...but that decision and detail is coming). The idea is since this will be something that is very infrequently used, it will be hidden. There won't be a door knob (push to open latch instead), and it will be installed with hidden hinges, and close tolerances to the wall. More to come on this as I install the door later. For now, here is some detail on how I simply built up the threshold to be 4.5" high in the rough-in for the door.
Floor Wood Hardwood Flooring Room


The door I bought is this small slab that I got from HD. It's 24" x 80". The only downside of mounting the door higher than normal is that it will now be slightly higher than the theater door, which is also 80". BTW, the rest of the doors in our house are 8 foot doors, so the theater door will look short and stubby, but I didn't want to make the door hole bigger than it needed to be, so we are okay with it. I'll go into more detail on the closet door when I get to install it. Hopefully it will turn out well-hidden and look good...I'm sort of wingin' it here. :cool:

So once I got the door roughed in, I started throwing a little sheetrock on it (1/2" from 4'x8' sheets).
Room Furniture Floor


And here is the closet at the end of that day.
Room Property Furniture Living room Home cinema


I made a bit of a blunder on framing this up. To save time, I decided to use the full 8 foot boards for the vertical studs so I wouldn't have to cut them (which of course takes about 10 seconds each...dummy), so the closet ended up being 8'3" tall, of course. I knew this, and was fine with that. Until I started drywalling it. I hadn't thought through all of the ramifications, and one of them was that my 4'x8' sheetrock would need some butt joints instead of just filling up the whole wall. Also, I'd need to buy a 10' corner and cut it down instead of using the 8' corner I already had. I decided to go forward anyway, since I'm hoping the butt joints don't matter because we cover the closet with something else...or the guys that have agreed to do our drywall finishing can fix the terrible sheeting job. Mistake #1 of many more to come, I'm sure.

This only took me about a half a day, though. I started about 1:00 PM on a Saturday, and was done by evening. Alright...probably technically a days work, but I'm just warming up again. :D Here's the thing, though. I know from past experience that things go quickly at the beginning because they're big, bold things to do. Later in the build, as more detailed jobs come up, it's harder to see good progress. The untrained eye might not see all of the new wiring or electrical outlets that you spent all day on, but would notice a new door hung or a new closet in place. I used to tell people when I was in the thick of my last build, or when I did a big backyard build at my San Diego house, that I was 80% done, and had 80% to go. That's how it feels when you're knee-deep in the minutia. Ah...the days ahead.

For now, though, not bad for a day's work.
 
#6 ·
Electrical Plan [decided about March 1, 2015]

In my last theater I had run two new 20 amp circuits to the theater (one for equipment, mostly, and the other mostly for lighting and outlets). This proved a great overkill, of course, for my equipment and plans, but it was fairly easy to do (except working with 12/2 Romex...what a pain in the hand), so I did it.

This time, running new circuits was, er, problematic. The main panel, and the pool sub panel, were on the extreme opposite side of the house, and the panels were not on a garage wall. I looked for many ways to run the new circuits, but determined the only real practical way was to run metal conduit on the outside of the side of the house to the porch, and then on the ceiling of the front porch all the way across the house and into the garage, and then from there, using the garage attic and some new holes, hopefully into the theater area, and then across the theater to the equipment closet.

My wife did NOT like the idea of conduit on the porch. I didn't like the idea of running all that cable. So I did some calculations and some circuit sleuthing. I determined that there was an existing 15 amp circuit that only supplied the theater already. It was used for three existing ceiling lights (two can lights and a center fixture) as well as the 6 wall outlets. There was another 15 amp circuit that supplies the main family room (four can lights and about 10 wall outlets). Unrelated to the theater, I've been converting all of my lights in the house to LED lights, also, so the already low amp draw on the existing family room circuit is even lower now.

After figuring out what my future AVR possibilities might use, as well as my sub woofers, and the LED lights that will be in the theater, as well as the rest of the gear, it seems that my amp draw will be pretty small. So what I decided (at least for now) is to dedicate the existing theater circuit (all existing outlets and lights to be removed) to the equipment and subs and extend the family room circuit into the theater to power the column outlets (hardly ever to be used, mostly there to meet code) and the LED lights in the theater. I will run both circuits to outlets near the likely sub locations so either circuit could be used, and both circuits will be available in the equipment closet as well.

Here are my rough calculations:

Family room circuit
4 9.5W LED can lights = .25A
Ceiling Fan and two 5w LED bulbs = 1A
Theater 8 9.5W LED can lights = .5A
Theater 2 9.5W LED sconce lights = .2A
Actually measured the family room 5.1 system at reference levels (Yamaha AVR, DIY 200W sub, 5 ceiling speakers, Xbox One, Tivo all running and playing) =
 
#12 ·
Electrical Plan [decided about March 1, 2015]

Okay, okay...I know it's a bit of justifying, but I think I can get away with the two existing circuits. I don't like it either...not having headroom for more if I need it later, but I feel like I'm a bit locked in since it looks like it WILL actually work okay. Anyone see any problems with my assumption/math/logic?

So, for now, that's the plan. Thoughts?
Not sure about your electrical code down where you are but up here we are only aloud a maximum of 12 "devices" per circuit. (eg 8 lights and 4 receptacles)
 
#7 ·
Wall Demo [completed around 3/6/2015]

After the equipment closet build, it was time to demo the room. As stated above, we would be taking down the drywall first from the two interior walls (right side and back of the theater). These walls needed to be opened to:
  • Take out and reroute existing electrical
  • Route new Romex in the wall to acheive my electrical plan
  • Fill with insulation
  • Install a door in the right side wall
  • Remove the archway that currently is the entrance to the room and frame that wall closed

This was the start of the demo of the right side wall:
Wall Room


And further along:
Wall Room Wood Building


My boys were looking forward to this part as they are naturally destructive. :) My 14-year old was a huge help, and earned himself a little extra spending money.
Hammer drill Ceiling Drill


This was the result.

Looking at the back wall:
Room Wall Property Ceiling Floor


And the right side wall:
Wall Room Architecture Wood Wood stain


You will notice the beam and the jack studs for the beam in the side wall. I was expecting this. I have a copy of the original plans from the builder for the house, and it showed this. In fact, the original plans for this model had the area under that beam open to the main family room, but the original owner had this customized as a closed-in separate room, so the while that is a load-bearing wall, it was engineered to be open (thus the beam and the jack/king studs). That's one of the reasons the door will go under that beam...it was engineered to not even need the wall studs...so no re-engineering necessary to install a door.

At this point, I'll explain why I'm putting the door on the side (especially on the front side near or at the eventual first reflection point). It comes back to the small size of the room. This room already had a natural doorway from the hall (it was an open archway) at what will be the back of the theater. This would be a great spot for the door, except I don't have enough room for the door there AND have two rows of seats. Unless I built up steps and a landing outside the theater (it wasn't practical in this space) and moved the seating up enough to allow walking in the back of the room, it wouldn't work. None of that was feasible in my space, so the door had to go on the side. Again, the size (and the engineering of the wall) dictated the door be near the front. In the middle it would have run people straight into the side of a the first row seating. Again, a compromise, but I've known that we would have to treat the door with absorptive material...and we don't have a problem with that...so I think we'll be okay.

Next up...demo the ceiling.
 
#8 ·
You've certainly been busy! All the technical specs are beyond me, but I can certainly appreciate some demolition and remodel!

I'll be watching this one.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Ceiling Demo [completed around 3/7/15]

Okay...on to the ceiling. It was more of the same...pulling Sheetrock off, but this was harder on the arms, and a lot more crap in your face. I figured out a system, though. I would use a hammer to make small holes along the next joist for as far as I could reach while on the ladder very close to the ceiling (about halfway across the room). I basically made a series of holes along the joist, and then across toward the joist near where the last section had been taken off. I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures of this process as I didn't think to shoot some while completely covered in gypsum dust. After making the series of holes, I would grab into the holes (either with my hand or the claw of a framing hammer) and yank down that section of drywall. It would come off pretty clean, even across the last joist, although it would leave all of the nails and screws (both had been used for the ceiling).

After pulling all of the nails and drilling out the screws, I would move on to the next section (next joist, basically, on that half of the room). I got to about this point.


After that, I recruited my 14-year old for the rest of the ceiling after teaching him the method I had arrived at. It was well worth the 20 bucks. :) He did a great job...and got us to here.



Next, we removed the carpet and pad. We left it in during the wallboard demo to help catch all the tiny pieces and not have to vacuum everything up. It worked, for the most part, but man was that carpet heavy. :) We cut the carpet in half...it was too heavy for two people to carry if we left it whole.

With the ceiling, the carpet, and the two walls done, we were almost completed with the demo. All that was left was cutting out the door on the existing wall, removing the archway to the existing entrance, and some cleanup and odds and ends left over (some Sheetrock pieces left, lots of vacuuming, pulling leftover nails and screws, etc.). Oh, and I can't forget all of the removal of hundreds of pounds of gypsum and carpet trash. That had to go to a trailer, and off to the dump. To come clean, we didn't actually take it to the dump until this past weekend, two weeks later. It's nice to have it off of the RV pad. It was weighed at the landfill; over 1100 pounds. :D
 

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#13 ·
Good thought. I thought about that, too, and checked into it. Evidently, most places in the US don't have a maximum number of outlets that aren't in use all the time. I looked through my local code to see if they added any further restrictions to NEC, and they do, but not on that matter, so I think I'm okay. Anyone around here know any different?
 
#15 ·
Subscribed! Looking forward to this one.



Code is managed at the city level around here and at least in Gilbert, there absolutely are not any restrictions on the maximum number of outlets. I confirmed that with a town electrical inspector when I did my addition.

Quick question for everyone. Because I couldn't do clips and channel on the walls, I figured it would do no good to do the ceiling (where I do have room to do it). My thought is that if the walls are at a certain STC level, going higher on the ceiling would really not do anything because of flanking sound. Am I, ahem, sound in my thinking? Any counter-thoughts?

Also, I was thinking of possibly doing green glue and Sheetrock pieces under the sub floor above between the joists to possibly cut down on walking noise, etc., from above, but not sure it would be worth it considering almost all of the floors above the theater are covered in pad and carpet...so there is not much clickety-clack from above anyway. Any thoughts on that?
Opinion time: flanking isn't going to completely invalidate doing clips and channel on the ceiling, but it will definitely reduce the effect and so it might not be worth the investment. I'd only consider it if you had a serious foot-fall problem and needed every little bit of help. Sounds like that's not the case.

As far as the small pieces between the joists... I'm a fan of "if you have access and time, then why not?" Can't hurt. But if it's going to cost a notable amount of money more then you'd really need that foot-fall problem to justify it. How often do you expect people to be tromping about above the theater while you're watching something?
 
#14 ·
Quick question for everyone. Because I couldn't do clips and channel on the walls, I figured it would do no good to do the ceiling (where I do have room to do it). My thought is that if the walls are at a certain STC level, going higher on the ceiling would really not do anything because of flanking sound. Am I, ahem, sound in my thinking? Any counter-thoughts?

Also, I was thinking of possibly doing green glue and Sheetrock pieces under the sub floor above between the joists to possibly cut down on walking noise, etc., from above, but not sure it would be worth it considering almost all of the floors above the theater are covered in pad and carpet...so there is not much clickety-clack from above anyway. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks in advance.
 
#16 ·
granroth, stop being so reasonable. I wanted you to say, "Of course doing clips on the ceiling would double your STC...do it!" Or, "Don't be stupid...it won't help at all." :)

Ya...it's good advice. I probably do have a little time to at least do the GG and strips in joists because I'm STILL waiting on the Mesa building dept. to approve my plan, and then I can schedule my first inspection (of at least two, I'm sure, since I'll have electical in my soffits and columns, too, which I can't do until I close up the walls). Unfortunately I won't get much, if anything, done on the theater this weekend since I'm going camping/hiking with my youngest son tonight and tomorrow most of the day. The cities due-date for approval is Tuesday...so my plan is approved, I can start closing walls. If I have to resubmit something, I'll have another two and half weeks to do "extra" stuff. :) We'll see.

On the code thing, Mesa is standardized on NEC 2005 for electrical, and then have a few additions/changes on top of that that they publish...probably similar to Gilbert, I'm guessing. NEC doesn't state a maximum number of outlets (that I can find, anyway). I would be surprised if Gilbert and Mesa are much, if any different, since they deal with the same local constraints, county and state regulations, etc.

That said, I'm starting to second-guess myself on the electrical...and starting to consider digging an 18" deep trench or putting conduit on the porch ceiling, or something, just to get another circuit or two over there. Dang...I hate always wanting to over-build stuff...just in case. :confused:
 
#17 ·
Oof... underground conduit gives me nightmares. I had to run 200' of four conductor 8AWG THHN through PVC in preparation for my addition. What a massive pain!

First there is the trench. The soil around here is egregiously hard to dig, so you need a trench digger to get to 18". I went with "Trench Masters", which usually does trenches for irrigation systems but can go down to 24". Alas, quite a bit of the dug out dirt falls back into the trench -- as much as 8" to 10" in parts. That meant a decent amount of hand-shoveling to get it to a consistent 18".

Now in my case since I wanted to run a 220v outlet and the voltage drop over 200' (400' actually, since its a circuit) is so much, I had to have four 8AWG wires. Those are each quite large and not at all easy to pull for 200'. Lots and lots of lube!

THHN wire costs a bit more than standard romex and it was harder to get in the larger sizes. To save some money, I chose the smallest PVC conduit size that was permitted (maybe it 3/4", I don't remember). That was a mistake, since that just made the wire pulling that much harder. Even with lube, it wanted to stick to the sides and when you yanked really hard on the wire, it'd just cause the PVC to twist and buckle.

I also made the mistake of doing that just before flood irrigation and not finishing it in time. The entire trench flooded and the sides collapsed. I had to re-dig it out after letting it dry for a week. Not fun.

That should all be easier in your case. You would have half that distance; standard 110v; and 15 amp. You could almost surely get away with three conductors of 12AWG THHN, which would be worlds easier to pull. If you followed the trench digger with a trench shovel and immediately scooped out the excess while it was still "loose", then even that shouldn't be too bad.

So don't let my experience with underground wiring dissuade you -- yours would be tons easier and it would be very handy to have another circuit :)
 
#19 ·
Well, what do we have here? I did a little sleuthing, pulled a metal box plate off, and found this under the gas range top.




Took another look at the main panel, and that right there is a 30A 220v circuit with a 4th ground wire put there in case we wanted an electric range top. While this is not right next to the theater, it's pretty close, so I can easily do a multiwire branch circuit to create 2 more 20A, 120v circuits from that. And with a bit of surface conduit, a slight amount of gypsum repair in the kitchen pantry, and some fishing in the crawlspace via the open theater ceiling, it can be at the theater.

I already feel a little bit better. No trenching, no porch conduit, and 2 additional 20 amp circuits. Score. :)
 

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#22 ·
Well, what do we have here? I did a little sleuthing, pulled a metal box plate off, and found this under the gas range top.

Took another look at the main panel, and that right there is a 30A 220v circuit with a 4th ground wire put there in case we wanted an electric range top. While this is not right next to the theater, it's pretty close, so I can easily do a multiwire branch circuit to create 2 more 20A, 120v circuits from that. And with a bit of surface conduit, a slight amount of gypsum repair in the kitchen pantry, and some fishing in the crawlspace via the open theater ceiling, it can be at the theater.

I already feel a little bit better. No trenching, no porch conduit, and 2 additional 20 amp circuits. Score. :)
That is a score, how many insulated conductors are there, what gauge wire (10?) and is there a bare ground?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Door Hole [Completed around 3/7/15]

So, I got out the reciprocal saw and cut out a big ole' hole in the wall for a 36" x 80" door. I was going back and forth on which door, and I'll get to that in the next post, but I knew I needed a hole and I knew the rough-in size...so I got to it. It was kinda fun after all the sheetrock demo to be able to simply cut out a hole, though. I also had to take the nut off of two anchor bolts in the floor holding the sole plate to the slab, and with the help of my wife, I just pushed it over and we carried it out to the junk pile that would head to the dump. This is what it looked like after taking it out.

From outside the theater:


And from inside the theater:


I then used a metal blade on the recipricol to lop off the anchor bolts in the concrete. Since you can't get completely flush, I then took a mallet to the anchors to send them a bit lower into the concrete to get them flush. Worked out pretty well. Note that since I removed these two anchors on the sole plate, and that the plate ended on both sides of the door, I would be getting some new anchors and drilling them into the concrete just on either side of the door.

You can also see in the pics that I had installed the new king studs for the framing already. The existing framing was so badly twisted that I couldn't really use the one I wanted to, so I moved the door a few inches to use the existing one on the other side. I installed a good, straight jack stud on the existing king stud side, and then installed a new, straight king stud on the other side (left side when looking out of the theater, or the hinge side).

I have some current good news, too. I bought all of the electrical supplies (conduit, wire, etc.) to do my two new circuits. Not sure when I'll get to it, but I think I'm all set on that. Oh, and my construction permits got approved...so I'm on my way (after handing over much too much money to the city for their blessing).

Next up, finishing the framing for the door rough-in, and figuring out the door situation. It was a bit of a fiasco, so I'll see what pics I took and write that up tomorrow.
 

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#25 ·
I've got a question for everyone. As I said earlier, I can't do the false wall design up front because of the length of my room and my two-row requirements, but I still want the value of having Linacoustic or similar to deaden behind the LCR speakers. My plan was to put it across the whole wall, but I don't know how to mount the screen if I do that (since there would be insulation behind it). Alternatively, of course, I could just install the Linacoustic RC around the screen, but this is also problematic as the insulation would then stick out 3 inches beyond the screen.

Do you think I should build a minimalist screen mounting wall with 2x3's just in front of the Linacoustic? Any other ideas? Thanks in advance for the help and ideas.
 
#27 ·
Well, my understanding of using front wall absorption is primarily to reduce or eliminate SBIR, which is the result of having a speaker at a quarter wavelength away from the wall for some frequency that matters. One of the ways to combat this is to just put the speaker close enough to the wall that the quarter wavelength corresponds to a very high frequency.

It also combats comb filtering from the reflection on the front wall. Putting the speaker close should also take care of that since the time from the original and reflected sound should be roughly the same.

But yeah, if the speakers aren't or can't be that close and Linacoustic is in the cards, then I'd suggest building the minimal screen wall just to mount the screen frame. You'd only only an inch or so.
 
#29 ·
Ha...for some reason I didn't even see your response before, Tedd. So, do you mean attach wood to the front wall to hang the screen on? In that case, if I went with Linacoustic, are you saying just to run the linacoustic up to the shim, cut it, and then put some on the inside, too (i.e. behind the screen)? Just want to make sure I understand.

Thanks!
 
#28 ·
Good points, granroth. I've always found that the sound usually gets better the further you put the speakers from the wall (or effectively further, using absorption). In my last theater I used OC703 behind and to the sides of the LR speakers, and horizontally under the screen behind the center channel. This was effective, but I was wondering if 4 inches of linacoustic all the way across the front and on to the sides would be even better. Maybe you're right, though. Maybe I could save the money of a giant roll of linacoustic RC (most of which I don't need) and put it into 6 panels of OC703 instead (about a third of the cost) and then I don't have to deal with a special screen hanging wall, or covering the whole wall with fabric, etc. I'll have to give that some thought. Any other ideas?
 
#30 ·
Ceiling Nailed

Okay, I know I have a little catching up to do in the thread (documenting a few of the things I've already done to this point in the last few weeks), but I wanted to cover one of the things I did today real quick. So, I've been going back and forth on putting a couple of layers of drywall between my joists with GG in between to help dampen footfall noise. There are a couple of reasons I've been second guessing the plan. First, it's a bunch of work. I've also cut the GG order pretty tight, I'm guessing, and this will likely require that I order one more bucket...so it's not going to be cheap. Additionally, I don't have much footfall traffic above because it's mostly carpet up there. There is some tile in a bathroom that is above the stage area, but even then it's not bad. But really the main reason I've balked at it is because there are hundreds of nails coming through the subfloor.



They are all over the place. I really didn't want to deal with this. But finally, I decided that since the ceiling was open now...it was now or never, so I better just suck it up and do it. No one has ever said, "Dang, I wish I could hear those footsteps upstairs better while I'm watching this move."

My first thought was to just press the drywall strips up into the nails, and then screw them in. This was certainly the lazy way to do it...at least I thought so. But since most of the nails were coming through about a 1/2 inch...maybe it would work. Turns out, though, this really wasn't the lazy way. I hung two, 4' strips this way as a test, and let me tell you...it wasn't easy. I used plywood and a small 2x4 to spread my pressure over the sheet to press it up onto the nails. My arms were killing me after just one sheet...and it was hard to get it evenly pressed up against the subfloor and get good contact with the green glue. And many of my screws pulled through the paper. I decided this was not feasible for the whole ceiling...but here are the two sheets I did do this way.



I briefly considered just hammering the nails up parallel to the subfloor, or even into the subfloor, but I wasn't too keen on having all of these bent nails cause the same problem I had with the straight ones (keeping the sheetrock from making good contact with the subfloor) or even damaging the tile or something upstairs by hammer too hard. No...instead I grabbed my angle grinder and a metal cutoff blade.



I started going to town on the nails with the cutoff disk. I quickly realized that just my eye protection would not be enough. Sparks, of course, were everywhere, and each one that hit my face, my arms, my neck, etc., was like the fire of a tiny sun for just a second. :D

So I had one of my sons gather a few things for me. One of their full face airsoft/paintball masks, one of my old jackets, and a baseball cap (had to be a fitted cap...an adjustable one leaves a hole right on your forehead...ouch). I donned the jacket backwards (and it's hot here already...so that wasn't pleasant) to protect my arms and my neck and chest. I put the cap on backwards to protect my hair, forehead, etc., and put the mask on over it. My son said I looked like a ninja. LOL



Now I was ready to do battle with the nails...so I went to it. Here is a sample...



This is not easy work...and you have to be very careful, while being blasted with hot sparks, that you don't hit a sprinkler pipe, high or low voltage wiring, or something else unpleasant to fix. So far so good (knock on wood). Also, every once in a while lopping off a 16D nail leaves a hot ember on the wood it is touching for just a second...so you watch, hoping it goes away instead of getting bigger. :eek: I highly recommend, if someone is going to do this, to have a fire extinguisher nearby...and it's probably a good idea to have a helper just watch below you that a spark doesn't ignite something on the floor. It only takes about a half second (or less sometimes) to cut the nail, but man, it makes a lot of ruckus in the process.

I'm about halfway done (this wasn't the only thing I did today...I took a bunch of breaks to do other things...and eventually ran out of time). I wish I was done...it's not fun. It's working pretty well, though, so putting up the drywall should be easier than the first two. There are some areas that are too hard to get to with plumbing and the like in the way, so I won't be getting all of them (or putting drywall on every square foot for the same reason), but it's coming along nicely. As I write this, though, there are still a couple of tender spots on my face as a reminder of that one time way back when (earlier today) that I did this with just eye protection on. :D
 

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#37 ·
I finished the nails over the weekend. Only one small lasting burn on my arm. Now I've got to get the drywall and GG up there. I'm trying to figure out all the things I need to get done before my first inspection so I can get that behind me and start thinking about closing up the walls and ceiling.


I have a 8" booster fan coming today that I'm going to install along with a speed controller on my single HVAC input line in the room (I'm thinking about branching that one into two...but haven't decided yet. I'm thinking with the fan (http://www.amazon.com/M-8--Line-Duct-Booster-Metal/dp/B002EC1O5M/ref=sr_1_1), even dialed back, I might have enough pressure for two. I'm also already have a 10" return in the room (connects to the adjoining gameroom), but I'm thinking of adding one more 10" return to an adjacent hallway, also, which happens to be below the main system return that's at the top of a great hallway (i.e. 20 foot ceiling). That should be plenty of capability for the additional pressure from the booster fan.


My biggest problem right now is how and where to install the fan. First, it's huge...so it has to physically fit between the joists. But also, since it's got a standard plug, I'll likely have to rewire it for direct wiring, but then I have to put a box in that is accessible from somewhere once the walls and ceiling are closed. In addition, it would be nice if I could access the fan itself for maintenance or replacement if I ever need to. I was thinking maybe an access panel in one of the soffits, to get to another access panel in the room shell. There are important sound isolation reprocussions on that, of course, so I'm still trying to figure this one out. Any ideas are welcome. It's possible that (beyond snaking the flexible, insulated ducting for sound isolation purposes) I don't need to make any changes to the HVAC in the room...but I'm just wanting to err on the side of more airflow (which I have control of) rather than end up with not enough. We'll see how it goes.
 
#39 ·
Could you put the booster fan above the laundry room with an access door in that ceiling for maintenance or replacement? I suspect you don't want an access in the family room. And, the garage should be sealed off from the main living area to avoid carbon monoxide seeping in. That would avoid cutting a big hole in your DD shell.

Then run the ducts across the theater to the front of the room which gives you some distance to introduce bends to attenuate sound. Are you doing joist mufflers or just bends?

I haven't thought much about the pros/cons of booster fans on HVAC supply lines. Would the booster effectively rob conditioned air that would otherwise go into another room that shares the same supply trunk? Would that be problematic for you? Not trying to cause trouble, just a thought.
 
#40 ·
Great ideas, RedStripe88. I could even make the access panel in the laundry room an air return filter vent just for aesthetic purposes. I'll look into that.

I am not planning on doing joist mufflers at this point (I could be persuaded, maybe), so I was planning on just bends. I guess I'm not positive about the effect it would have.

As for the boost fan, yes, I believe it would "rob" other areas of the house on that trunk as it would create negative pressure in that branch of the line (but not in the room) and draw more that way. I figure because I'm putting a speed controller on the fan that I can control this effect, and adjust the amount I want to pull into the theater. That's why I would add another 10" return; I don't want the fan to create positive pressure and work against my efforts. My biggest question is whether I even need the additional return, since the return now is 10" and the supply is 8"...the return is already more than 50% bigger than the supply. I figure it can't hurt (except for sound leakage, of course), and it's easy to do now, so why not. Then I could even double the input to the room (if that's even possible) and still not be restrained by the return pipe size. I'm no expert, but I'm just trying to think through it logically.

I think the other problem I'm going to run into is noise from the supply vent. If I increase the volume of air coming in without increasing the size of the duct and the vent, it will increase the velocity of the air. If that gets to a certain point, it will make noise, and maybe even whistle or something. For that reason I'm considering splitting the duct after the booster fan and having two 8" supply vents. I just don't know how much to worry about all of this if I just want to slightly boost the amount of supply coming into the room to carry a heavier load of people, or something.

All good questions, though...and a great suggestion on the access panel. I'll noodle on that a bit.
 
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