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CJ theater build thread

58K views 669 replies 55 participants last post by  Rjloper9 
#1 ·
Ok, I'm officially kicking off my theater roombuild thread. I studied this forum for the past three or four months andI still have a lot to go, but I believe I've absorbed enough to getstarted. By the way, I'll probably change the theater name at some point,I just needed something to get this thing started.

I bought the house in September of last year and thereis a place in the basement set up as a "theater room." Inquotes because it is simply an area in the basement, open to the rest of thebasement, where the previous owners hung a screen and threw up somecheap in-wall speakers. I was originally going to just build a wall toclose in the room and call it a day, but then I decided that as long as I'mgoing to do anything, I might as well do it right. The room is 14'7" wide, and because of design constraints, I am limited to making the room 21' long. The room is 8'6" high in the tray and 7'6" high at the bottom of the chase.

Here is what the space looked like





I have since started the demolition, and the space now looks like this







Here is the basic design. There will be a false wall with AT screen, ~125in 16:9 with electric masking system. First row eyes will be pretty close at about 9ft. I will be using some combination of buttkickers/Aura Pro. Recliners in the front row and a sofa in the second because of length constraints. The equipment will be in an unfinished storage room that is near the theater room











This design will actually be changed slightly as I'm removing the half wall behind the second row and adding that space to the half wall / foot rest between the rows. The idea is that I want to fit two SI HT18 in that half wall for near field effect and to supplement the subs behind the AT screen. I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if it is a good or bad idea.


For lighting I will use Insteon and I'm currently planning on 8 zones:
1) recessed lights - sides and back of room
2) recessed lights - sides nearest the screen (got this idea from the "what I would have done differently" thread)
3) recessed lights - screen wash
4) uplights behind screen (if they will fit in the design)
5) Sconces on columns (this may be removed)
6) step lights in riser
7) Color changing rope lights in soffits
8) Black lights in soffits for star ceiling mural


I plan on having a painted star ceiling in the tray


Equipment is up in the air at this point, but I'm hoping to fit 6 SI HT drivers in ported enclosures behind the AT screen. I was originally thinking JTR for L/C/R, but now I'm thinking DIY, maybe a set of the 1099s, to keep costs down a little. I already have a cheap projector to hold me until 4k becomes reasonable. I also have a perf 125in AT screen, but I will eventually go with a 4k screen.


Currently my main issues are HVAC and soundproofing.


Soundproofing:
Soundproofing is important, but I have space constraints (especially in the width and height dimensions) and I'm not sure how much interior space I'm willing to give up to achieve a soundproofed room. I can control the height of the ceiling, at the lowest point, by making the shell at the tray height and then building the chases inside the shell (and making them shorter by the comparable amount of height I lose from decoupling the ceiling from the joists). The side walls are a different story because I have a non-standard construction that may present additional challenges. I started a thread a few weeks ago about this, but didn't get any responses. My basement was built with Superior Walls Xi http://www.superiorwalls.com/products/xiwall.php. This manufactured wall has concrete studs (with rebar) encased in foam with galvanized stud facings (see link and/or attached photos). The builder has attached drywall directly to the galvanized steel facing. If I want to add DD/GG, I'm thinking I need to reinforce the studs and the manufacturer recommends building a frame between the studs for hanging or attaching heavy items. Before I go to the trouble of framing between every stud, I'm wondering if I even need to decouple the walls. How much sound will transmit through foam covered concrete and is DD/GG even necessary on these walls? I would obviously like to be able skip this process if possible, and only DD/GG the ceiling.


Here is a pic of the wall from an unfinished room in the basement:



Width is at a premium, so I don't want to do something that really narrows the room. I'm also guessing that it really makes no sense to decouple the ceiling if the walls are coupled. Anyone have any ideas what to do with these walls?


I'll continue with the HVAC questions in my next post.









 

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#2 ·
HVAC questions:


The basement and the main floor are on the same system. I wanted to put the theater on its own zone, but the theater area is currently fed from a main branch that also feed a number of other basement and first floor registers, some of which are directly above the theater room. Worse yet, there is rigid metal duct run in the right-side soffit (along with a gas line, a drain line, and some water supply pipes).


Issue 1: Zoning system for theater


I thought that maybe a home run could be added from the main HVAC plenum to the theater room and then that could be zoned separate from the other branches. I called in a couple HVAC guys for a consult and they both basically said, "no way." The first problem is that the system was installed without zoning in mind, so there is not enough space with the unit to fit a new branch for the theater and also a pressure bypass. To do so, the system would have to be laid on its side and then all the lines (gas, duct, etc.) re-run to the new location. On top of that, feeding a single room off of a 3.5 ton unit would not work because the bypass would have to be absolutely huge and it would probably screw up the system to have that much cold air returning directly to the system. You can get away from this potential problem if you use special dampers that have built in bypasses (think spring loaded doors in part of the butterfly valve so that when pressure is too high, that spring loaded door opens and bleeds pressure to other zones. The problem with this approach is that the spring loaded doors cannot be calibrated, so if they do not bleed enough pressure, you can end up with too much velocity at the registers in the theater, resulting in noise. Also, it really ends up being no different than just running the system for the entire basement and first floors when only needing AC in the theater because there will always be excess pressure to bleed off. If that's the case, then why not just put a secondary t-stat and control in the theater and use that when using the theater. The rest of the basement and 1st floor will be over cooled, which is wasteful, but I'm not sure there is a feasible alternative. The cost to just lay the unit on its side and re-run lines was around $6k, so that's not going to happen. So right now, I'm planning on just going with the secondary t-stat and controller in the theater. Anyone have comments/feedback on this idea? I know its a compromise, but it may be the best possible solution (and on the bright side, probably the cheapest).


Issue 2: Rigid duct in the theater:


This one is hard to explain in words, but I'll give it a shot. Here is the rigid duct in the chase:






The HVAC guys didn't want to only run flexible duct because of pressure drop issues. I looked on this site and it appears to be a fairly contentious issue. I'm thinking I can probably take the rigid duct out of the chase, turn it 90 degrees from where it is now and run it between the joists just in front of the wall (outside the theater) that I will build to enclose the theater. I should be able to then re-run two legs totally outside the theater. The two legs that feed the 1st floor directly above the theater can be run with flexible duct, and enter the theater right above the door in the back of the room and follow the chase around the perimeter of the room before exiting the soundproof shell in the appropriate locations. The theater will have two 6in supplies and they can enter off the new rigid duct along the right side chase with one branch then moving to the left side chase near the front of the room by running between the joists. The other potential plan for the theater supplies is to run a much smaller rigid duct in the right side soffit near the right side wall and under the gas and water lines. I would then build the soundproof shell inside of the metal duct and water/gas/drain lines. This means the chase would be split in half with 1/2 being inside the shell and 1/2 being outside the shell. I think this is probably the best plan because I would probably have to do something similar for the gas/water/drain lines anyway.


In this pic you can see three of the existing branches travelling from the metal duct in the right side chase to the left side wall where two go up to the first floor and one feeds the theater room.



In this pic you can see two runs from the metal duct that are in the defined theater area. One of these feeds the basement on the other side of the room and the other feeds the first floor. These are the two runs I think I can keep completely out of the theater room by turning the metal duct 90 deg and running it between the joists along the outside of the back theater room wall.



I should also mention that one of my goals is to decrease the width of the chase. Its currently 24in wide and I think it looks disproportional to the room. So everything is going to get more cramped in the chase (especially when I need space to install recessed lights)


In the above pic, where the drywall is missing defines the dimensions of the theater room. The metal duct comes from room behind the door on the right side of the picture. So the metal duct turns right 90 degrees. I am thinking about running the duct straight (remove the 90 deg turn) but have it move up so that it is between the joists. It would be between the first set of joists where the drywall begins in the pic above.


This is clear in my head because I have walked through the room and I wrote the description, but it may be unclear to others. Please let me know if this is confusing and I will try to clarify with additional pictures and text. If it is clear, I'm looking for feedback. Is this the best approach given my constraints, or is there a better way to do this? Also, If I go with a small rigid metal duct for the two 6in feeds to the theater, what dimensions would suffice? I know that for flexible duct, you usually go with an 8in for two 6s, but is it generally the same for rigid, or can you get away with less because it is more efficient?


I have an idea for a return which I will discuss in a subsequent post.




By the way, is this seating distance too immersive?
 

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#4 · (Edited)
Yes, in fact both HVAC guys recommended that, but the only external wall I have that isn't below grade is on the left side and I really don't want a mini-split plainly visible in the room. If the theater was a side entrance and I could hide it in the back, then I would probably go with that.


Plus, I would still need to deal with the existing metal duct work.


BTW, I like your theater.
 
#8 ·
I looked into ducted systems on the internet and it looks like the only place I could fit the air handler is next to the existing unit and then attempt to run duct next to the existing duct. I'm not sure if it will fit, but even if it will, I still need to fix the existing metal duct in the right side theater room chase and figure out a return or dead vent from the theater. So, as far as I can tell, the only benefit of a ducted mini-split system is the ability to control AC to the theater room independently of the rest of the basement/first floor. I'm not sure that is worth $7,500 (or even ~$3,000 if I attempt the install myself). How bad an idea is it to control the existing system based on the temperature in the theater and let the temperature fall where it may in the rest of the basement/first floor? I would think that the worst case scenario would be ~2 hours of operation at a time based on theater room temp.
 
#20 ·
Ok, I am looking at two ducted mini splits. They are both around $2000. The first is less of a brand name (at least that I'm aware of), but has a much higher efficiency rating at 20 SEER. - https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujit...catId=cat1031&mainCat=cat22185&subCat=cat1033


The second is a Mitsubishi, but is only 16 SEER (and is about $120 more) - https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsu...catId=cat1031&mainCat=cat22185&subCat=cat1033


I'm leaning toward the first for the added efficiency, but I could be talked into the Mitsubishi also. Thoughts?
 
#26 ·
Was about to buy the 12000BTU Fujitsu ducted mini split when I came across some information in the "Plains Theater" thread.


------------------------------------------
2) 1 Ton of cooling is equivalent to 12,000 BTU/Hr
3) 1 Ton of cooling can supply approximately 400 cfm of cooled air. This is a general rule of thumb used for sizing HVAC and will vary.
4) Each person generates roughly 500 BTU/hr at rest
5) Not considering the bar area, the theater will seat 8 people. This will require 4000 BTU/hr of cooling (8people * 500BTU/hr/person). I am assuming that when the theater is full including the bar at the rear (10 or 11 people), we will likely be watching a sporting event like the super bowl and will have the door open anyway.
6) The required cfm of cooled air is approximately

400 cfm/(12000 BTU/hr) * 4000 BTU/hr = 134 cfm
----------------------------------------------


My room will only have seating for 6. If there is plenty of headroom for a 8 person theater with a 12000BTU unit, should I just buy the 9000BTU unit and save a few hundred dollars, or should I just buy the extra headroom just in case?


If I run the calculation with 6 people, it becomes 400/12000 * 3000 = 100 cfm when the 12000BTU unit is capable of 400cfm.


The 9000 BTU still has 3 times my required capacity.


I know this doesn't account for the heat put off by the projector, but the equipment will not be in the room.


Thoughts?
 
#27 ·
What about the heat load from outside the room (I think the engineers call it "sensible" load )? You need to figure out your worst-case weather day, and then look at the exposure of the room to that condition. This is your baseline load, and the people and equipment loads are in addition to that.
 
#28 ·
The room has two external walls, one partially below grade, the third wall is partially below grade and shares the rest of the wall with the garage, and I will construct the fourth wall which will be common with the rest of the open basement. I don't think there will be much heat load from outside the room as it stays pretty cool year round in the basement. That being said, I don't want to somehow end up short on capacity, but at the same time I don't want to end up with more than 250fpm at the registers. I guess I could always bleed off pressure from the supply duct if I had to reduce velocity at the register for noise mitigation.
 
#32 ·
Time for an update. Some things have arrived since the last update. First, I received a bunch of Insteon gear. I believe its 7 or 8 dimmers, an 8 button panel, a hub, a thermostat, and a few recessed outlets for the rope lights and black lights



Also, I got 4 subwoofer cables, a couple of Redmere HDMI cables, and 850ft of 12GA speaker wire. I still need to order about 500ft of cat6.


I also received the ducted mini split.



The duct work was a little bit of a challenge because apparently almost all rectangular duct is custom fabricated. I found a couple places to quote the work and the local place was significantly cheaper and had the duct done in a few days.



 

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#33 ·
I also ordered some sound damping material from HD that I read about on here. I plan on wrapping a couple drain pipes that will be outside the shell, but I want the added insurance. This stuff is substantially cheaper than MLV and about 75% of the mass. I plan on wrapping each pipe two times to make up for the difference in mass.



I'm adding a 125 amp branch panel in the basement for the theater room and for a future bar area. Had to find 2/0 3 conductor and ground to run from the main to the branch panel. HD and Lowes don't stock that cable, so had to go to a local electrical supplier.



I was able to get the panel mounted on my concrete wall. It required nailing boards into the side of the metal facing on the studs and attaching a plywood backer between those boards. I then added legs for additional support.
 

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#34 ·
I started running the duct work for the mini split. I have to run the duct in an unfinished room, make a left 90, shoot a gap above a door into a finished space and then run flex duct branches into the theater area. Because the gap above the door is the critical dimension, I started there and then built out in each direction. I ordered 12X9" duct, so I had to remove a couple support pieces above the door to make it fit. I measured before ordering and determined that I could safely remove the supports.

My father helping to remove the supports


You can see the duct for the existing system to the left. You can see where the installers of the original system already notched the bottom board.



Removing the top support



First section in place


What I didn't think about was that there were additional soffit cross braces that had to be removed to fit the duct in the finished space. So I had to take down more drywall than I originally anticipated and I will have to figure out a different way to re-do the soffit so that the drywall doesn't sag over time.




Then I took it out and assembled the 90deg left section


Then it started coming together


 

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#35 ·
Then I test fit the custom transition from the mini split outlet



Then I took it down and test fit it to the air handler and it didn't fit. The metal shop made it too big in the height dimension. Instead of taking it back and having it remade, I cut a section of metal from extra rectangular duct and attached it to the bottom of the transition in order to close the gap. You can see it in this pic at the back right side of the transition.


Attaching it to the air handler wasn't exactly easy, but we made it work. We also added weather stripping to help close any gaps and then wrapped the whole thing with tape.





Once the transition was finally attached to the mini split air handler, we worked on mounting the air handler to the ceiling. We went with angle iron for adequate support. Hopefully this won't be noisy in operation. I purchased some rubber washers fro isolation, but they were too soft, so I ended up not using them. If it ends up being a problem, I'll revisit at that point.




Eventually we got it mounted




We drilled through the concrete wall and brick veneer and mounted the quick disconnect box for the outside unit, but we did not get around to actually installing the condenser yet. More to come........
 

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#37 ·
Minor update time:

Last weekend I decided it was time to move the existing metal duct branch from the theater room soffit. I started to disconnect the joints in preparation for disassembly. The builder made the job somewhat easier for me by never fully installing at least one drive on one joint :rolleyes:




Anyway, I quickly realized that there would be no good way to get the duct out of the soffit without disassembly of at least some of the soffit. This is OK however, since I plan on tearing them out and rebuilding them smaller and inside the soundproof shell:




I left one cross brace up to help support the duct. Before I physically disassembled the duct, I grabbed the transition piece I had built and tested it for fit. It did not fit. I spec'd 14.5" wide and it is 14.75." I have exactly 14.5 inside the joists to run this duct, so it won't fit. I had to reorder the part, but I also realized that while if it had been 14.5" it would have fit, but there would have been no space for drives and the joints. So this time I ordered no larger than 14.25". I believe there is enough slop in the connections to mate a 8X14.5 duct with a 8X14.25 duct piece. The place that made the original piece is making the new one for free even though I offered to pay.


So, I couldn't go any further with the HVAC work and I switched to wrapping the drain pipe from the kitchen sink that runs between the joists over the theater. This was a real pain because the pipe was wedged against the joist and I was working with 4ft sections of the material that I wrapped around the pipe twice with a spray adhesive and tie wraps. I'm still not finished, but it took a long time to get everything in place and tight.



















I'm going to pick up the new transition piece this afternoon, so hopefully I'll be able to work on the HVAC this weekend. In the mean time, three 1099s were delivered this week.




 

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#38 ·
Another update:


So I got the replacement transition piece of duct made so that it would fit between the joists and then realized that I would not be able to reuse the existing duct because it is also too wide to fit between the joists. So I had the metal shop make duct that was basically 1/4" narrower. I got that duct from the shop and went to work re-routing the existing HVAC branch that was run in the right side chase in the theater room area.


Here is the construction of the duct on the floor



To run the duct between the joists, I had to remove the drywall from the ceiling and cut out the soffit framing to create space to lift the duct into place. Of course its the same place that wires were run..



There is a main support beam that the duct needed to run over, but there was blocking in the space between the joists over the support beam that needed to be removed. It was particularly difficult because the wires were also run through holes drilled in the blocking. Here is one of those blocks, but not the one we removed



Here is the view once that blocking was removed



Here is more of the duct assembled and taped with the transition piece attached



Then we disassembled the existing duct from the theater chase and also removed the right 90deg piece that sent the branch into the theater.


Here is the right 90deg that I had to remove





Here is the soffit without the duct






The existing duct that was in the theater soffit transitioned from a larger size to a smaller size. I planned on re-using the smaller portion of duct and the transition from the larger to smaller (the new duct I had made was close enough to the existing duct so that I could mate it with the transition piece).

Here is the existing smaller duct that I re-used. It did need to be cut shorter, however.
 

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#39 ·



Here is the new duct test fit in the ceiling



This was an extremely tight fit because of the drives that join the sections together. Connecting these sections between the joists is basically impossible, so I had to assemble as much as possible on the floor and then raise it into position. The entire run could not be assembled on the ground however, because it had to go over the support beam in the middle of the room.





We held it up temporarily with 2X4s





We measured and cut the smaller section of existing duct for the new placement. We didn't want to disassemble the duct in to L-shaped section and cut with tin snips, so we used a sawzall to cut the assembled duct.




Then we removed the take-offs and cut plates to cover the holes





Here is the duct in place and connected (but before tape was added)
 

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#40 ·
Here is the new duct going across the room, outside where the theater will be





I had to make one connection between the joists, the transition piece to the smaller section of duct. Amazingly, I got it all connected with the exception of bending the drives over the top of the duct since it was pushed up under the subfloor.






In the above picture, I have covered the 8" hole I cut for the take-off that I will need to re-run existing registers to the kitchen and mud room on the first floor. I covered it because I'm planning on transitioning from an 8" to 2 6" flex ducts with the use of a Y connection that Lowes and HD do not stock. Then I realized I had an 8in duct boot, so uncovered the 8in hole, installed a take-off and ran a temp run to the 8in boot for the kitchen register.











At the far end of the run, I cut two 6in holes and installed two 6in take-offs - one for a register in the kitchen eating area on the first floor and one for the basement. I haven't actually connected of these yet.
 

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#41 ·
More update:


We wired the branch panel from one of the main panels. Working with double 0, 3 conductor and ground wire really sucks. That stuff doesn't want to bend at all. We needed to get it from the main panel, down through the floor into the basement and then routed over to where we mounted the branch panel. The main problem was that below the main panel, there was an inaccessible cavity that was about 12 - 18 inches deep. So we drilled down from above, and over from the basement. Then we had to fish the wire through the dead space. If you've ever worked with this gauge wire before, you know what its like trying to get it to enter a space and turn 90deg up through a second hole without being able to touch the wire. It was next to impossible. It required a pry bar, a tire iron, and three people.


Due to the size of the wire, we actually started the run near the middle and ran it both ways.



Here you can see the cable hanging down in the front left side of the theater. The hole up to the main panel is in that corner



One of the main panels in the mud room





Here it is with the baseboard and drywall removed



Here it is with the hole drilled





Not the best way to make a hole in the panel, but the correct tool costs $1800



Curving the new wire behind the existing was not easy either



Here is the main panel wired with the 125amp breaker and the wire to the branch panel



Here is the wire from the basement going into the dead space
 

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#42 ·
Here are some pics of the routed wire














Here is the wire installed in the branch panel





Also, I hooked up the kitchen eating area HVAC location. The ceiling is dropped and I will remove all the framing and push it up to gain about a foot of height. Once that is done, I can shorten and straighten the flex duct run.
 

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#44 ·
Nice start!! Looks like you are willing to do almost anything to get the job done and you have a crew to help which is nice:)

Can't wait to see the finished result, sub'd

BTW, just checking, but did you apply Penetrox to the ends of that aluminum wire where it screws into the panel? Don't want any arcing or corrosion deterring your progress:eek:

Best
 
#45 ·
Nice start!! Looks like you are willing to do almost anything to get the job done and you have a crew to help which is nice:)

Can't wait to see the finished result, sub'd

BTW, just checking, but did you apply Penetrox to the ends of that aluminum wire where it screws into the panel? Don't want any arcing or corrosion deterring your progress:eek:

Best
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Its just my dad and me, so the "crew" is small and the project will take a while, but I knew that going in.


We didn't use that specific brand, we used this:


http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b
 
#46 · (Edited)
Here is the next long overdue update. Life got in the way of the theater room, but I was able to get little things done here and there. For example, the relocated HVAC trunk is not supported between the joists and there are also some preexisting wires run between this set of joists, so I need clearance between where the HVAC sits and where the new drywall ceiling will be located. I bought some thin metal straps to hold the duct up between the joists, but I decided that it wasn't rigid enough to work and wouldn't create the clearance required for the wires. I ended up using shims to simply wedge the duct up as high as possible. Over the past month of so, the duct has slipped back down, so I need to figure out how to make the solution more permanent.


You can see the wires hanging down in this picture


In this picture you can see one of the shims in place





Another pic of the wires and shims



I also worked more on wrapping the drain pipe with sound damping material. The complex curve made for some interesting fitment issues.










I also removed the framing for the chase and put the up the final rigid section of the new HVAC duct work for the theater room mini split
 

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#47 ·
I then started to create the space for laying sole plate






I notched out the drywall where the new wall will meet the existing walls






Later, I actually got around to tearing down the walls






I also took up the carpet and the pad





I also removed all the chase framing around the room and the screen wall.


 

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#48 · (Edited)
One of the reasons why the theater progress has lagged is that I had some projects going on in the kitchen and family room. Ignore the smudges in the pictures, there is dust or something stuck in the optics of my cell phone camera













Finished the ceiling and wainscoting. For comparison, here is what the space looked like when we moved in:







I ended up having to move all but a few lights in the ceiling. I also had to move the fan.
 

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#178 ·
One of the reasons why the theater progress has lagged is that I had some projects going on in the kitchen and family room. Ignore the smudges in the pictures, there is dust or something stuck in the optics of my cell phone camera






Finished the ceiling and wainscoting. For comparison, here is what the space looked like when we moved in:





I ended up having to move all but a few lights in the ceiling. I also had to move the fan.

love the coffer ceiling! i've been wanting to do this with my new house but figured the HT comes first lol! question on the coffer ceiling. ideally how high of a ceiling one must be to do this or what's the minimum ceiling height to do coffer ceilings? my other question is do you know how sometimes there's no break in the ceiling but it continues through all the connecting rooms? how would you put in a break that way you don't have to do the whole first floor if you know what i mean. here's a shot of my kitchen that i thought of just doing some crown molding but after seeing your's with crown moulding and than switching it to coffer ceiling it's like night and day! :D
 
#49 ·
I went ahead and ordered my SI HT18s since they will no longer be available










I added the two 8in takeoffs for the theater room mini split



I then laid out the theater room with painter's tape to make sure everything fits



 

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#50 ·
Then I started framing the double wall to close in the theater.


Here is the start of the inside wall





Here are some of the IB-3 clips installed. Ted recommended 6 over the door framing.





more of the inside wall up





Looking from inside the theater room out to the rest of the basement



The outer wall proved to be problematic because it was right up against the main support beam. Not only was it a tight space, many of the lag bolts were totally in the way and had to be cut off just after the nuts. There are also a lot of existing wires that are completely in the way that we will eventually have to deal with. We probably should have put up the outer wall first, but we were concerned with the IB-3 clips because neither of us had done that before.








You can see how tight the fit is in this pic



Double wall complete up to where the HVAC for the mini split is located.



The wall will need to be framed around the metal duct for the mini split to keep it outside the soundproof shell. We should be able to frame around the HVAC and still be inside of where the chase will be run inside the theater so that no one will know when its finished. More to come.......
 

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