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post #1 of 36 Old 06-29-2015, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Father and Son newbie HT Project (need layout ideas please!)

So I am building a new house with my father. We have a large room located over the garage that we would like to turn into a home theater. We are not audiophiles or perfectionists by any means. We just want a cool place to watch movies as a family. Thinking 4-6 seats. I have no problems trying to track down used equipment, and I don't need to have the absolute best audio. Just a fun movie experience that will be enjoyable for us casual movie watchers. Essentially a good experience, not the best.


I am wondering if someone can help with the following (be aware these dimensions are pretty fixed and cannot really be changed unless there is a super compelling reason.
1.) Optimal Screen size
2.) Optimal seating arrangements (2 senior citizens, 2 adults, and 1-2 kids.
3.) Optimal projection location.


This is currently framed out, but no drywall, so we can drop speakers, lights, etc anywhere at this point (though meeting with electrician soon). I don't mind the side aisles being tight, as we will only need to find our seats once or twice (thinking like an airplane). Is it okay to have only one aisle and move seats closers to wall? Do we need to paint room dark?


As I said, looking for a fun, acceptable moviegoing experience. Is this possible in the sub $5000 range? Does not need to have fancy lights, acoustical perfection, etc. I'll leave that to our next project

Blueprints below:
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post #2 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jcb193 View Post
.....
As I said, looking for a fun, acceptable moviegoing experience. Is this possible in the sub $5000 range? Does not need to have fancy lights, acoustical perfection, etc. I'll leave that to our next project ...
I put a cheap but very fun HT together for my mom's house by going with 6 inexpensive bookshelf speakers. (Pioneer SP-BS21-LR wait for them to go sale at newegg $50-$60/pair). Then got modern but inexpensive receiver. (Yamaha RX-V377BL at bestbuy on sale $180)

Most of the sound comes through the center channel so I wired two of the speakers in series and placed one on each side of the screen. The Fl, FR, SL, and SR use just one speaker each. Set all channels to "small" and the sub crossover to 160Hz. For each speaker roll up 3 paper towels and stuff them into the port on the back of the cabinet. Make it a tight fit.

I did not go cheap on the subwoofers. Two high quality 12" subwoofers in two separate 4 cubic foot sealed boxes with high powered amps. (good subwoofers are the fun part)

Currently, the best bass for the buck is the 18" Dayton Ultimax with their flat pack box kit. ~$355 combo. (hint: mount the driver with the magnet out to get extra box volume and better cooling.) If you can, buy two of them. It is much easier to get even frequency response with multiple subwoofers. You can get good results with 100-300 watts per sub.

Look into some of the pro audio amps with built in DSP (digital signal processing) to power the subs.
http://www.parts-express.com/behring...-dsp--248-6702
You may need an adapter cable to go from your receiver's RCA sub-out to the amplifier-in.

So these parts with an inexpensive BluRay player gets you a lot of fun for under $3000 which leaves you a big chunk of money to make acoustic treatment to the room.

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post #3 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 06:22 AM
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Looking at the diagram what is in that room at the bottom right?

That door swing makes using the wall above as a screen wall more difficult.

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post #4 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 06:56 AM
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+1 to asking about the purpose of the room in the bottom right hand corner.


I'd be removing the closet framing at the other end of the room, as a starter, and thinking
SeymourAV XD for an acoustically transparent screen, right off the bat.
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post #5 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 07:56 AM
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DIY speakers, and never use two center channels on each side of the screen because of the Comb Filtering Effect. Expanding on Tedd, DIY acoustically transparent fabric from Seymour or Falcon screens will save you $1000
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post #6 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsci2 View Post
Currently, the best bass for the buck is the 18" Dayton Ultimax with their flat pack box kit. ~$355 combo. (hint: mount the driver with the magnet out to get extra box volume and better cooling.)

Um, no don't do this.

-




Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #7 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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OP HERE
Wow, thanks for the responses. I watched thread die for a day, and then assumed I wasn't part of the crew. Thanks for the responses.


So this blueprint is a little weird for you guys, but it makes sense for the house. I can move some walls around, but not much. Anyway, here are the changes I made in the last 24 hours.


- The door at lower right will now open outwards.
- Screen will be on the 10' 6.5" wall.
- I am shifting the nook (2' 10" area) to the left a little, and hoping to open up 12-18" of door clearance for the screen wall.
- AV equipment in rear closet
- First row of seats around 9-10' mark, raise the floor 7" at the 12' mark, 2' spacing and then seats on rear. So the entire left side of room will be raise 7". Is this enough?
- Increasing the walls next to closet door to 15" for speakers.


Questions:
- Can I just use two tower speakers in front of theater (if I make some door clearance), and put a center channel on stand, and sub in top right corner?
- What size screen can I go to?
- I expect to try and pick this up piecemeal on Craigslist. Seeing some nice Epson projectors for $1500-$2000.


New pic below:
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post #8 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
+1 to asking about the purpose of the room in the bottom right hand corner.
.

It houses a suit of armor, so I don't really want to remove it. However I will be making it smaller (like 32x20), which will allow me to shift the door to the left a little, and open up the 10' 6" wall.
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post #9 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 07:07 PM
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can you change the swing direction of the door, opening into the room rather than the theater?
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post #10 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
can you change the swing direction of the door, opening into the room rather than the theater?

Yeah, sorry for the double post, you might have missed my lengthy clarification on the changes I have since made. Check the post above this one, as I addressed that. Thanks!
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post #11 of 36 Old 07-01-2015, 07:29 PM
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reclining HT seats need 6 1/2 ft of riser depth. I'd like to see some sections of solid walls at the back to hang rear surrounds.
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post #12 of 36 Old 07-02-2015, 05:36 AM
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That front closet just screams to me that it's natural, with some minimal additional framing + some
SeymourAV XD acoustically transparent screen material, tensioned via O rings and grommets. So I'm
thinking to flip the room, and keep the whole 20' 8" length.


The little front remaining wall could then be black fabric panels secured from the backside, via long screws, and
four fabric panels could overlap, and define the screen edges. The lower panel would be removable to access
the AT space.


A suit of armour, never saw that coming! Maybe it could find a new home, and be put on display elsewhere?
That would give you a big screen in a tight width, and accommodate speakers, with an improved speaker layout.
One very nice plus of a DIY acoustically transparent screen is there's some very nice speaker kits out there, that offer
flat packs for the cabinetry. Being behind an AT screen, a simple bed liner or flat back finish works very well and provides
a very high WAF level.


As for the windows, those could be hidden by hinged fabric panels, and visually disguised if you went with full height
fabric panels around the room. That treatment could be extended to the doorways.


So what exactly is that room in the bottom right hand corner, and does that area provide access to other areas of the upstairs?


I see your space as a pretty killer five seat room, with a King/Queen front row, and a three seat second row. Six seats would
work, but you want to find narrow seats so you still have aisle space to access that door, and to try to create some separation
between the seating and surround speakers.
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post #13 of 36 Old 07-02-2015, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Time was of the essence (interior walls being framed this week), so I couldn't put it off any longer. I went with the following design (see below). I know it might not be AVS ideal, but I am thinking it could be workable for a novice HT guy. To be honest, my office is more important to me, as I work from home a lot. Does anyone see any glaring mistakes, or do you think this area can be worked out?


1.) Made closet nubs a little larger to accommodate rear speakers (1' 1")
2.) Made entryway a lot more friendly by moving the wall to allow 1' 6" clearance for front tower speakers. Door can open inward without hassle now.
3.) That small shelf area is still dead space, but the suit of armor stays
4.) AV equipment will be in the back closet. Running speaker wires, HDMI, coaxial to that location
5.) Projector will be mounted around 14' from screen (running power and HDMI to ceiling)
6.) Raised floor in rear 7" (ceiling is 8')


Question: What size screen do you think I can pull off in the 10' 6.5" area?




ANYTHING GLARINGLY WRONG that I need to tell them before tomorrow? All help is appreciated.


I'm not handy at all, so need this to be pretty turnkey.
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post #14 of 36 Old 07-02-2015, 08:37 PM
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is the screen on the wall or pulled out with AT fabric? Makes a difference on riser location and screen size. Are you planning a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen?
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-02-2015, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
is the screen on the wall or pulled out with AT fabric? Makes a difference on riser location and screen size. Are you planning a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen?
Probably screen on wall. Trying to keep this basic until I figure out what I am doing. Or should I pull it out?


Hadn't thought about 16:9 or 2.35. Trying to keep this one a budget <$7500. I know I can do this with used/discount equipment, but didn't know if I could stretch for 2.35. Is it worth it for this space?


If I am being honest, I really don't know what I am doing. I got caught up with a newborn baby, and instead of having 100 hours to research this, I've only had about 10. Any suggestions for a novice midrange system would be welcomed!
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post #16 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 05:20 AM
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I am talking simple,very cost effective, and budget methods here, that will give you an excellent theater.
You might not be familiar with how inexpensively you can create a DIY acoustically transparent screen,
and how good they can be. And how they allow you to get a BIG screen in a narrowish room. And a plus
is how easily they can be removed and not impact on the rest of the room's finishes, and be redone if you
later decide you want something like an anamorphic lens where you could go to a 10' wide 2.35:1 screen.


So I would say close off the door at the top of the stairs, theater side. And eliminate the closet nubs and have the entry door's header filled in entirely, so later allow for the door to be raised, and provide a surface to nail trim to.
That would be the structural changes. This would set you up for something like a single step high riser, and then an island riser on top, for the second row. Spaceman's build has an good example of an island riser (although a very low one).
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post #17 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb193 View Post
Time was of the essence (interior walls being framed this week), so I couldn't put it off any longer. I went with the following design (see below). I know it might not be AVS ideal, but I am thinking it could be workable for a novice HT guy. To be honest, my office is more important to me, as I work from home a lot. Does anyone see any glaring mistakes, or do you think this area can be worked out?


1.) Made closet nubs a little larger to accommodate rear speakers (1' 1")
2.) Made entryway a lot more friendly by moving the wall to allow 1' 6" clearance for front tower speakers. Door can open inward without hassle now.
3.) That small shelf area is still dead space, but the suit of armor stays
4.) AV equipment will be in the back closet. Running speaker wires, HDMI, coaxial to that location
5.) Projector will be mounted around 14' from screen (running power and HDMI to ceiling)
6.) Raised floor in rear 7" (ceiling is 8')


Question: What size screen do you think I can pull off in the 10' 6.5" area?




ANYTHING GLARINGLY WRONG that I need to tell them before tomorrow? All help is appreciated.


I'm not handy at all, so need this to be pretty turnkey.





Lots of glaring mistakes, and potential areas where you might be heading wrong. Starting with a tight
design deadline.


1) The rear surrounds won't be properly located, and they are buried in the corners. Far from ideal.


3) Can the suit of armour be displayed in the alcove outside the theater? Or, why must in be in THAT closet?
Adding that closet space to your room has some excellent pluses, and makes for way better speaker layout,
with the room flipped and an AT screen.


4) That alcove outside the room would also make for a very nice av rack location.


5) Projector location will be what the chosen projector needs, and screen size will impact on this. Conduit would be
a nice touch here. Buried cables often get damaged, and sometimes a certain hdmi cable won't do a handshake. A friend
actually had a situation where several hdmi cables at a certain length wouldn't work. A 1' shorter cable worked perfectly
fine. Might have been a nasty surprised if that cable was buried right off, without testing. And how about future proofing,
if you change out the projector?


6) How did you decide on a 1' high riser? The screen size and height will impact on this greatly. Ideally,
you want the second row to be able to see the bottom of the screen, over the front row seated heads. I hope
you aren't just pulling numbers out of your head here, but I suspect you are. You also don't want the riser
built before the room is drywalled.


Not trying to be a PITA here, but you seem to be a newbie and I am just trying to throw some education, and maybe
some ideas you haven't been exposed to, at you.
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post #18 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 05:39 AM
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And another thought is lighting, do you have a lighting plan?
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 05:44 AM
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you don't have to close off the entrance at the top of the stairs, just put a door there. Swinging in toward the screen wall on the left wall as Tedd has drawn.
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post #20 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 06:00 AM
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That's an option that would allow you to close of the back door, and stick the av in the side wall.

Another would be to frame the doorway properly there, and then frame it in (with screws from inside the door
opening,) and drywall over. That way a door could easily be added in the future by simply cutting the drywall.
Ditto for the other door, too...

The space does have excellent potential.
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post #21 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for being unclear, I've said a few times that I am a total newbie and trying to keep this process simple (maybe that's a mistake).


The rear door is for my father to have access to the room without walking through my house (so I am not changing that). I also want the closets, as I don't have much storage space in this floor. I know it is ideal to flip it, but I am trying to stay within the constraints of more important features of the house vs HT room. I do like the idea of running conduit, so I will do that, thank you.


But to sacrifice a huge closet, the suit of armor, and a doorway is not something I can do right now. Thank you so much for your help though! Wish I would have known all this during the blueprint stage-

Riser is 7"
Suit of armor will be in the outside alcove (3' 0 x 3' 2" space)

Is the far right wall (1' 6") too small to be framed out like the closet? It's not too late for that? And yes, I think the platform needs to be set beforehand, so I did an arbitrary number. I really won't have time (or skill) to do my own platform at this stage of my life. Just trying to be realistic.

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post #22 of 36 Old 07-03-2015, 07:27 AM
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OK. Fought the good fight... I wasn't sure about access and walkways to the rest of the upstairs,
but thought I'd throw those options out there...


I'd suggest you make your riser to match your step riser height, (which is likely very close to 7") and
then do the island style riser, on riser. This would be safer and retain more volume in the room.


The doorway and no closet removal means your screen will be smaller and the speaker layout will suffer. I'd be
aiming for a 54x96" screen, so as not to push the center channel down too low, and for room for speakers. Another
option would be in wall front speakers, behind an AT screen. It'd be a zero foot print option and allow for the center
channel to be higher.
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Quote:
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OK. Fought the good fight... I wasn't sure about access and walkways to the rest of the upstairs,
but thought I'd throw those options out there...


I'd suggest you make your riser to match your step riser height, (which is likely very close to 7") and
then do the island style riser, on riser. This would be safer and retain more volume in the room.


The doorway and no closet removal means your screen will be smaller and the speaker layout will suffer. I'd be
aiming for a 54x96" screen, so as not to push the center channel down too low, and for room for speakers. Another
option would be in wall front speakers, behind an AT screen. It'd be a zero foot print option and allow for the center
channel to be higher.

Thank you. Please don't think me unthankful for your advice. I just know my constraints and my ability to be handy.


What about making a closet on each side of the room? Keep the 2' 1" one for components and other things. And make a 2nd closet on the 10' 6" wall. Is 18" deep enough to do what you suggested originally? Then I get my closet, you get your AT wall, and I get a bigger screen?
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post #24 of 36 Old 07-06-2015, 05:49 AM
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Do you mean the side walls?


Is there an opportunity to offload the closet into the alcove in the office area? And is this thinking along your
previous posting?


And if ever decided you no longer wanted a home theater, that end closet could still be built rather easily....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
...never use two center channels on each side of the screen because of the Comb Filtering Effect. ....
I had those same thoughts and found that the sound in actual use was much better that what the theory seemed to suggest. Stereo speaker set ups have done this for decades.

If that is not good enough I would try a speaker above and another below the screen. But it sounded good on each side.

That being said. It's worth the experiment. There's nothing like real world tests. In the next few days, I will try single speaker and over/under set up you on my current HT. Will report back.

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post #26 of 36 Old 07-06-2015, 01:06 PM
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Put the center speaker where God intended, in the center behind an Acoustically transparent screen. In my book it is not worth the effort to "Experiment"
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post #27 of 36 Old 07-06-2015, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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We have enough room for a closets on each side of the room if I wanted. Alcove cannot be changed. I'm still going to go with the layout facing the 10ft 6.5" wall (not sure why this is a such a bad location?). As I said, I could even build out in the 1" 6" section and create a second "closet" and do the AT screen you guys want. The door can open outward, which is fine as this room will only be used at deliberate times. 18" should give me plenty of clearance. 10' 6.5" can give me enough for a comfortable 100" screen or a tight 110" screen. I don't think that 2.35 is good for this room, unless I went AT, right?


Have a chance to get a 7.1 Definite Technology system. Mythos Teri Speakers, Gem Satellites and a supercube 6000 sub.


Do you think that is a good system for this room?
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Seems that if the full width (10' 6") closet were divided into three smaller ones it could be an excellent bass trap system for two axial standing wave modes. Each corner would need a 16-24" closet that is tuned for the 10' 6.5" axial mode. Then the center 6ft closet would be designed to adsorb the 24' axial mode. The doors would need to be sealed against the closet cavity and the limp mass membrane assembly incorporated into the doors.

The closet space would act as the air cavity. Putting adsorptive material (like clothing) in that cavity is likely to be very helpful in broadening the range of effectiveness.
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post #29 of 36 Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM
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1' 6" is pretty shallow, so a baffle wall would work, but it isn't a DIY'er project, and having one designed isn't in your budget.
(So that's why the closet at the other end was an obvious choice, plus the rear surround placement issue.)


Ideally, you want 6" separation between a woven AT screen and the speakers, so the speakers won't timbre shift. Now speaker choice
could fix this issue, and maybe three rear closets might provide rear surround space?


And just how much rattling will those closet doors have?
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Have a chance to get a 7.1 Definite Technology system. Mythos Teri Speakers, Gem Satellites and a supercube 6000 sub.


Do you think that is a good system for this room?
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