Javery's NJ Theater - finally started! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 692 Old 10-30-2015, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Javery's NJ Theater

Current progress:








----
Equipment:
  • Projector: JVC RS520
  • Screen: 130" SeymourAV Reference Screen (RF130HD)
  • Receiver: Denon 6300
  • Surrounds (4): Volt 6 kit from diysoundgroup
  • L/C/R: 1099 kit from diysoundgroup
  • Atmos (4): RSL C34E
  • Subwoofers (2): Stonehenge (left and right firing) from diysoundgroup (with 18" Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4)

Materials:


----
OK... it is official. After years and years of waiting I have finally started work on my basement home theater. Since some actual construction took place over the last couple of days, I thought I'd start a thread here to document what I've done and hopefully get some answers to questions as they pop up.

I live in an OLD house - like 100 years old. When we moved in the entire house was 1300 sqft. (not including the 6' ceiling basement that leaked like crazy). Anyway, fast forward 12 years, 3 kids and an addition later and we now have just over 2000 sqft. plus a 500 sqft. basement with 8'-4" ceilings (unfinished). We dug down in the old basement to get extra headroom plus added a full sized basement underneath the addition. It is basically my dream house except it is currently missing a theater and a place to play my arcade cabinets.
.
  • Room dimensions (unfinished): 23'-4" x 16'-0"
  • Equipment: haven't even thought about it other than me want big screen (I will need a lot of help here)
  • Layout: nothing crazy (no curves!) - 2 rows of seats (4 in rear and 3 in front), stage, riser, columns, screen wall, coffered ceiling, double door entry (thanks to BIG for helping with the layout and dimensions)
  • Soundproofing: IB-3 clips for walls, IB-1 clips and channel on ceiling; green glue, double drywall everywhere (all from The Soundproofing Company)
  • Issues: sump pump in back corner of room (will be hidden in a corner column); unfortunate placement of ducts and pipes throughout (everything will be hidden in a soffit around the perimeter of the room, but it will be a challenge).
Next up - some progress pics!
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post #2 of 692 Old 10-30-2015, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 692 Old 10-30-2015, 07:17 AM
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post #4 of 692 Old 10-30-2015, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Good thing because I've got loads of them already.

I made some progress today on framing - pics to come once I can arrange them in a way that makes sense (it's hard to get decent pics for some reason).

The layout that I'm going for courtesy of BIG is below. The odd columns in the back corner are to hide my sump pump. I was originally going to hide it behind a screen wall but that wouldn't allow for the doors and the riser to work so we flipped the room 180 degrees.

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post #5 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some old Sketch-ups I did of the theater that are actually pretty close to the final design other than the first row will only have 3 seats. I'm gathering the framing photos and will start posting those later today - gotta get back downstairs and work!



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post #6 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 06:38 AM
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That is a nice area / room to have. Nice blank canvas.


What are your plans to power the gear? Will you be running a new dedicated line to the panel?

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post #7 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch46e View Post
That is a nice area / room to have. Nice blank canvas.


What are your plans to power the gear? Will you be running a new dedicated line to the panel?
Thanks.

When I had the addition done the electricians supposedly compensated for the additional power requirements with a new circuit panel (that handles the entire house, including the future basement). Do you mean running another line from the street? Is there an advantage for having a dedicated line or a dedicated circuit box?
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post #8 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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OK here goes... framing the room took much longer than I had anticipated - 6 days total! It was also the first time I've ever fired a nail gun or used a compressor so there was a learning curve for sure. In trying to maximize every inch I had some tricky obstacles to frame around. When I had the basement built 2 years ago, I knew I wanted a theater so I kept telling the contractors to leave the room as empty as possible and they did a pretty good job all things considered.

All walls are decoupled from the ceiling joists using IB-3 clips. I ordered 30 for the entire room based on Ted's estimate at The Soundproofing Company and it was the perfect amount. I used a framing gun and 3" nails for the basic construction and pressure treated lumber for anything that touches the concrete floor. All framing was done with 2x4s. First up - the future screen wall! ... well, the wall that the screen wall will sit in front of...

Here is a shot of the entire wall. Nothing fancy but there were two issues I had to work around.



The first is on the left side where the duct is running up to the first floor of my house. The HVAC guy tucked it as close to the wall as he claims was possible but it still sticks out past the stud wall so I had to step down the header in two places. This made it tricky to attach the walls to the joists because the duct was in the way. I ended up using a fastener specially made for attaching things to cinder blocks with the rubber grommet on the IB-3 clip tight against the concrete. It is solid as a rock and the wall is plumb.





The second issue I had to work around was on the left side of the wall. Directly above this comer of the theater room is actually outside of my house. There is a covered back porch with a brick stoop leading out to my driveway/yard which is why there are metal beams instead of joists and the metal flashing in this section. The stud wall height was fine here but again I had nothing to attach the header to so I used the same fastener for the IB-3 clip in this corner in the cinder block.



I'm trying to make this build thread as detailed as possible in case it can help someone else - I couldn't have even gotten this far without everyone who has done this before me.
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post #9 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 07:56 AM
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I can't post a link yet. Give me one sec and I'll post a link to a good write up.








I just had an electrician drop a 10-3 line for me. 10-3 has 4 conductors.


I found this write up from LOKIE on another forum while searching Google. This is what he said:

"I was given this advice from the design engineer of a well known Audiophile Power Conditioner manufacturer."

"Use round Romex 10/3 or 12/3. Inside are 4 wires, a black, white, red and bare wire(s). Use black for hot, white for neutral, the red and the bare are both for ground (using 2 wires for ground gives you a much lower impedance path to earth ground resulting in a quieter system with a lower noise floor). If you do 2 dedicated circuits, make the wire length identical for both if at all possible."


I sent this to the electrician and I think he scratched his head and said "Why"? But he agreed to do it. I had the 10-3 dedicated line ran from the panel to the wall just above the equipment to plug my Belkin PureAV PF-60 into. I will get a Furman PST-8D for the TV on the other wall. To much work to run another line to the TV on the exterior wall.


I have yet to hook the receptacle to it. Right now the line is just sitting there and I have the circuit breaker off until I get a quality plug.

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post #10 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 07:57 AM
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Try this. I hope it helps! http://www.psaudio.com/ps_how/how-to...cated-ac-line/

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post #11 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Wow - seems like it would make a difference in the overall performance of the room. I'll have to do some research although it seems like that decision is a while away.
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post #12 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I made some good progress today - room is completely framed.

These shots show the right wall of the theater if you are facing the screen. Not a lot of issues here other than one duct I had to frame under. I used a double header in that area for extra strength although I'm not even sure if I needed it. With the IB-3 clips in place everything is rock solid. The right side of the wall is again underneath the back porch so there was the issue with attaching the studs to the cinder block wall with an IB-3 clip.



In the picture above you can see an old outlet that was just randomly placed by the electrician when the basement was constructed. I'll have to have that removed. Also, you can see where I had to notch out the header - the steel beam that supports the side of the house was about 3/4" lower than the joists.





Left wall is up next - exciting stuff ha ha...
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post #13 of 692 Old 11-01-2015, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I lied. Back wall time. Nothing crazy here either. It was the first wall I constructed - I jumped the gun a little with the camera...



Here you can see the sump pump on the right. I had to set the footer and then put the right studs in place while the wall was already nailed to the floor. No big deal - I toe nailed a couple of screws up top and on the bottom. I'll go into more detail about that area and the sump pump in the next post about the left wall which also has the double door opening and a bunch of other issues.



The next picture shows the pipe from the sump pump that runs up the wall. I had to notch the back of the header to allow for the pipe to pass through. Not sure why my sump pump is so far above grade but it is just the way it is so I have to deal with it. Grr...



Finally, the last pic shows the IB-3 clip which I had to install prior to lifting the wall in place... which got caught on the insulation when maneuvering the wall into position - nothing is easy! Also, with the joist in the way, I wasn't able to get as tight against the back cinder block wall as I would have liked - I had to come out about an inch to be able to secure the top of the IB-3 clip.

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post #14 of 692 Old 11-04-2015, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, last wall and I'll be done with the tedious pictures... for now. This wall was the most challenging by far. I had to deal with a sump pump on the left, a retaining wall next to the sump pump that sticks out into the room by 7", the double door entrance and then to the right there is some plumbing in the ceiling that I had to make sure didn't touch the header. Pics are below - they are pretty self explanatory.
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post #15 of 692 Old 11-04-2015, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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And here's where I'm currently at.





Next up is removing and/or relocating some wiring in the ceiling of the smaller room adjacent to the theater. There are 8 junction boxes randomly placed in the ceiling that need to be dealt with plus some wiring that the electricians just stapled to the bottom of the joists. I will frame this area next - I want to do all of the drywall at once.
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post #16 of 692 Old 11-09-2015, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Question: I'm planning on a coffered ceiling so I need the drywall ceiling to be solid and support a lot of weight. I'm actually planning on OSB for the first layer and then covering it with drywall to finish. How should I layout the IB-1 clips on the joists? I assume I'll need more than the standard amount (I have 90 of them, which seems like a lot). Should I just space them to use them all or is there some magic to it? There are 18 joists (well, 17 and then on one end I'll have to add blocking) across the ~22' span (each ~15' in length). So I could do 5 per joist spaced about 4' apart and put them on most of the joists.
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post #17 of 692 Old 11-09-2015, 08:28 PM
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Channels 24 OC with clips every 4 ft will support two layers of ceiling material. OSB is similar in weight to drywall. channel is mounted perpendicular to the joists.

You want to stagger the clips so that you involve all the ceiling joists in holding up the ceiling, Ask Ted or John to send you layout diagrams for the clips, If you will have concentrated loads on the ceiling (coffered treatments) you can throw up more clips in the approximate location based on 30 lbs per clip load.

here is one I pulled quickly for walls but the ceiling is the same


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post #18 of 692 Old 11-10-2015, 07:32 PM
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Good start on a nice sized space. Have you considered using stagger stud or double wall on the entrance wall, and eliminating the double door entrance? The double doors will negate much of your sound isolation efforts, single doors are much easier to keep sound in & out. And what is your HVAC plan? Another area that can hurt sound isolation.

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Looks like potential for a great HT space
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post #20 of 692 Old 11-12-2015, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Channels 24 OC with clips every 4 ft will support two layers of ceiling material. OSB is similar in weight to drywall. channel is mounted perpendicular to the joists.

You want to stagger the clips so that you involve all the ceiling joists in holding up the ceiling, Ask Ted or John to send you layout diagrams for the clips, If you will have concentrated loads on the ceiling (coffered treatments) you can throw up more clips in the approximate location based on 30 lbs per clip load.
Thanks - I'll reach out to Ted or John. Looks like I have plenty of clips for the ceiling joists. Can I install them now or do I need to know the exact ceiling/lighting plan? I'm only concerned about needing to cut some of the channel away in order to install a light (can) in the ceiling. Might not be a big deal but I have most of Saturday to work downstairs and I want to get something done. I suppose at the very least I can install the clips without the channel and then when I know lighting placement I can add clips as necessary before installing the channel. I'll post a drawing of the ceiling layout I'm thinking of - I'm going to need help with the light placement and sizing the soffit.

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Good start on a nice sized space. Have you considered using stagger stud or double wall on the entrance wall, and eliminating the double door entrance? The double doors will negate much of your sound isolation efforts, single doors are much easier to keep sound in & out. And what is your HVAC plan? Another area that can hurt sound isolation.
Thanks! I was wondering what to do about the other side of the entrance wall. I thought clips and channel on the outside would help isolate the room. I haven't considered a double wall there because I don't want to lose the floor space in the adjacent room (it will be barely 11x11 once it is framed). The double door was a concession for the wife - I'm OK with it even though I know it will be tough to soundproof. I'll be using solid doors and something to cover the floor gap at a minimum.

I don't have an HVAC plan just yet but I am open to suggestions on how to handle this. There will be a soffit around the entire theater so the HVAC will be run in there. I just need to figure out how to get it into the room (as well as a return). The HVAC unit is adjacent to the theater but separated by a concrete/cinder block wall (that I suppose I could drill through).

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Looks like potential for a great HT space
Thanks! I hope the end product comes close to the vision I have in my head...
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post #21 of 692 Old 11-13-2015, 07:51 AM
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I loved the screen shot you used in your sketchup! LOL

When your ready to decorate your theater or lobby, you may want to check out this place out.
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post #22 of 692 Old 11-16-2015, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I loved the screen shot you used in your sketchup! LOL

When your ready to decorate your theater or lobby, you may want to check out this place out.
Ha - thanks. I'm pretty sure the first movie will be Raiders of the Lost Ark though. My dad has been helping me with the build and it is his favorite movie. Star Wars will definitely be in the first 10 though - hopefully Episode VII too...
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post #23 of 692 Old 11-16-2015, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I've sorted out the ceiling/clip issue - Every 16" along a joist with the clips spaced 48" and staggered. So like the pic BIG posted except where it says 24" MAX it's going to be 16" for me.

Right now I'm trying to clean up the area outside the theater before I can continue:

  • I need to move/relocate 8 junction boxes that are up between the joists (an electrician quoted me $2,150 for this - seems outrageous)
  • I need to move/relocate a couple of ducts. I have the layout nailed down - just gotta get someone to do it for me. Seems easy enough.
  • I need to move/relocate 2 gas lines They were installed underneath the joists in the middle of the room - I just need them pushed over about 2' each.
  • I need to move/relocate 4 water lines. These are pretty much in the right spots just not snug against the wall so I can frame in front of them.

There are so many moving pieces...
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post #24 of 692 Old 11-28-2015, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I am getting tired of contractors making appointments and not showing up. I've had 3 cancel without calling and I've only been able to get 1 electrician and 1 HVAC guy come out to look at what I want. Anyway, I've got the HVAC guy lined up and another appointment on Monday for the electrical/plumbing so hopefully that pans out. This is slowing me down though.

In other news, I ripped out the old alarm system in the basement and lost phone service to the house! I knew one of the wires I pulled was the phone - I just didn't think that all other phone lines in the house split off of it. I fixed it but it was pretty funny when I finished for the day and I looked at the giant ball of wires (entire garbage bag full) and was bragging to the wife that I did it all myself and then she points out the phones didn't work haha.
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post #25 of 692 Old 12-04-2015, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Moving the HVAC is done. A lot of aggravating ducts are now out of the way so I have additional headroom but had to drop the soffit over the theater entrance by about 3" which is kind of annoying but I'm sure I'll get over it. Next up is moving the gas and water lines.

Question: What do I do in terms of sound between the theater room and the adjacent room? Do I need clips and channel on one side of the wall? I assume I need to do something. Right now I am not planning on any clips and channel on the walls of the theater as everything is decoupled from the ceiling.

Question 2: Can someone link me to the HVAC registers I'm supposed to use in the theater room? I think they are long and skinny but I'm not sure what to use.

There are going to be 2 ducts leading into the theater (directly into the soffit from the adjacent room). One will go up and across the ceiling to the other side and the other will not have that much distance to it. Is this OK? I'm trying to plan next steps and I'm a little stuck on what to do and how to lay it out.
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post #26 of 692 Old 12-05-2015, 05:18 AM
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When we spoke I thought you planned clip and channel for the shared walls on the theater side.

the most often used registers are linear bar. The best place I've found is HVACquick.com and custom order the Dayus registers, they make them to the size you request. For this size room you would want to be using two 4x36 registers (or bigger) for both the supply and return to keep air speed slow and quiet. I buy a stock color and spray paint as required.

http://www.hvacquick.com/products/re...Linear-Grilles

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post #27 of 692 Old 12-05-2015, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - clips and channel on that wall is what I thought but I wasn't 100% sure for some reason. I'll order 2 of those registers - thanks for the link. They seem to be pretty cheap - I was explaining to the HVAC guy that I needed long skinny registers and he thought they would cost a fortune and that they were not necessary. Of course, he also said I didn't need to worry about noise because I could just turn the volume up on the TV.

So how do I layout the ceiling with the soffit, light placement, register placement, etc.? Obviously I want things to be symmetrical but I also need to think about placement relative to the columns, screen etc. Since I am planning on a coffered ceiling inside of the soffit I don't think I'm supposed to put any lights in that area so everything would be on the perimeter. What are the typical dimensions of a soffit? Everything will key off of that.

This is what I'm thinking but I don't know where to actually place anything.

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post #28 of 692 Old 12-05-2015, 09:24 AM
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I'll order 2 of those registers - thanks for the link.
Placement of the two supplies looks good.

Forced air HVAC is a push/pull system, you need an equal amount of return for your air handler to be able to blow air into the room, without a return in an airtight sound isolated space you will reach a pressure level where no additional air can be forced into the room, this equates to a very hot and stuffy room. In the rest of the house many rooms probably don't have returns as the builder planned on the gap under the door to serve as the return. If you hang a reasonably sealed door that option is not possible in a theater space.

I'm surprised your guy didn't bring this up, maybe he thought you can just turn up the volume and open the door if it gets stuffy.

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post #29 of 692 Old 12-05-2015, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Placement of the two supplies looks good.

Forced air HVAC is a push/pull system, you need an equal amount of return for your air handler to be able to blow air into the room, without a return in an airtight sound isolated space you will reach a pressure level where no additional air can be forced into the room, this equates to a very hot and stuffy room. In the rest of the house many rooms probably don't have returns as the builder planned on the gap under the door to serve as the return. If you hang a reasonably sealed door that option is not possible in a theater space.

I'm surprised your guy didn't bring this up, maybe he thought you can just turn up the volume and open the door if it gets stuffy.
That's exactly what he thought. I don't think he understood what I was trying to accomplish after explaining it to him 3 separate times. He is a nice guy who we have used for years but I can tell he has a way of doing things and didn't want to try anything new. We did figure out how the air will enter the theater in 2 different locations though so that's good.

Anyway, what do I need to do for a return in the theater room? I will have those 2 registers supplying the heat/air conditioning but then I need something else to balance out the air pressure like you mentioned above. Where should that go? Underneath the soffit? Should I order 3 of those registers or is the return supposed to be something different?

I should be finished framing in about 2 weeks so I need to start planning next steps. I'm having a blast!
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post #30 of 692 Old 12-05-2015, 01:16 PM
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the vent sizes for the supply and return should be similar. The returns can go in the rear of the room, how you connect them up to the air handler will have to be determined.
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