Proteus ?? High Fidelity & High SPL & Low Fatigue - 9.4.4 Trinnov ? Alcons ? Seaton T - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Proteus – HQ - High SPL & Low Fatigue - 9.4.4 Trinnov ł Alcons ł Seaton Theater



Current Status: 80% Done

To Do (Room): Hang acoustic panels. - Make AT panels to fill in screen wall. Calibration(s).

Last updated: 8/1/2016






Table of contents
  1. Introduction
  2. History
  3. The Next Phase - Proteus
  4. Final Theater Pictures (Pending ETA: TBD)
  5. Proposed System List
  6. Proposed Wiring Diagrams
  7. Room Layout
  8. Previous System Equipment (Current until Dec 2015)
  9. Previous System Pictures (Current until Dec 2015)
  10. Previous System Build Pictures (Current until Dec 2015)
  11. Build Pictures




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Last edited by thxman; 12-01-2016 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Ordered Wire & Connectors - Changed from SPX to FC connectors.
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post #2 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Introduction

Proteus has been several years in the making/design. After my current speaker’s company (Original M&K USA) went out of business in 2007, I started looking for an alternative system that provided the same quality sound (or better) with improved dynamics and dispersion. I followed many other fellow member’s journeys and gave serious thought to brands like JTR, Danley, Seaton, Elemental Designs, JBL, Golden Ear, Triad and the list goes on.

I also had been following AVSForum member Cineramax (aka Peter) on his moon builds (aka Nouvel Space – Limited Edition Custom System) for well-to-do individuals over the last several years. What I found most interesting with Cineramax’s post were that he is always trying to raise the bar of performance with each of his builds. To some, this may look like he is always switching brands, but I don’t see how you can expect consistent improvement without making changes.

Peter also pushes the envelope for full emersion. He is one of the biggest supporters of 3D (done right), MFX (motion effects) and 3D audio (Auro 3D, Atmos, etc..) A handful of lucky 2015 CEDIA attendees were able to attend Peter’s Immersion 2025 demo which applied many (not all) of Peter’s latest developments.

Having CEDIA close to home this year was very helpful. I was able to demo so many different products and attend one of Barco’s demos with the Alcons (not Peter’s full Immersion 2025 Demo). I knew I wanted to make significant upgrades and experiencing some of these products was very helpful.

When Peter offered to name my theater as he does his for his clients, I was honored and gladly accepted. His Neptune line of moons are not his full experience and deal mostly with just the B chain.

What is Proteus?

Proteus is the second largest moon of Neptune behind the mysterious Triton. Proteus was discovered only in 1989 by the Voyager 2 spacecraft. This is unusual since Neptune has a smaller moon - Nereid - which was discovered 33 years earlier from Earth. The reason Proteus was not discovered sooner is that its surface is very dark and it orbits much closer to Neptune. Proteus has an odd box-like shape and were it even slightly more massive, its own gravity would cause it to reform itself into a sphere. (Wikipedia)
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post #3 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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History

I first ventured into the concept of “Home Theater” in 1992 when I was living at a friend’s house. We loved movies and I added speakers by splitting the left and right RCA jacks into a boom box with removable speakers. This was a very make shift start but it was fun.


About a year later, I visited a once common A/V store in Atlanta, GA called HiFi Buys with my brother in law to upgrade his old receiver to a new AVR with surround sound. I think this is when I became hooked for life. At this point, I knew one day I would have my own nice setup.


A couple of years later, I graduated from high school and I moved to my own place. It was not long before I started working on my Home Theater (about 3 months). This was still before Dolby Digital arrived so I was looking for the equivalent of 5.1 for Dolby Pro Logic. I started with a low end Denon AVR and Polk Audio Speakers (RT12 towers), a Mitsubishi 32” with a Mitsubishi VHS, once again, from HiFi Buys. Over the next few months, I made several upgrades as HiFi Buys would accept returns for store Credit up to 1 Year for Speakers and AVRs. I kept the towers but upgraded the center speaker to what was then Polk’s biggest Center (CS350-LS) outside of the SRT (Signature Reference System) and some RT equivalent bookshelf surrounds (RT3s maybe?). The Sub was some small Polk 10” ported box.


I also started upgrading AVRs at this time. I moved from the Denon to other brands like Yamaha and Pioneer Elite finally ending up with the higher end Denon AVR-2600 ($900+ in 1990’s money).


I had friends come over to watch movies all the time and one friend brought his parent’s Laserdisc player. We hooked it up and compared the video and sound to the VHS copy of Speed. I was sold and my next purchase was a new Pioneer LD (don’t remember the model#).


About a year after settling on the AVR-2600, Denon Dolby Digital models started to be released. I had spent several hours playing with a Dolby Digital Yamaha setup (it had an outboard Dolby Digital demodulator) at the store. I was amazed by the concept of discreet channels versus matrixed channels with ProLogic. I traded in the AVR-2600 for the brand new AVR-3600. This was Denon’s very 1st digital (audio) AVR. A month later I traded the AVR-3600 for the just released AVR-5600. Denon’s 1st Dolby Digital THX AVR ever! Unfortunately for me, DTS came out shortly after I would not have DTS in my theater for over 12 years. The 5600 was just shy of 3k and it would need to last me. The very next year the Denon AVR-5700 came out and the AVR-5600 was a footnote in history.


I next had to upgrade my LD player to one with an AC3 RF output for Dolby Digital so I purchased the Pioneer CLD-504.


Not long after I purchased the AVR-5600, I discovered Home Theater Magazine and they just did an article on the AVR-5600. In the same issue, I was introduced to M&K Speakers. I realized there was much more to speakers that I knew and I started to learn everything I could about audio. I spent the next few years listening to every speaker brand/model I could. I always came back to the M&K speakers and finally pulled the trigger and ordered the M&K S-125 system and sub. Less than a month later, I returned the MX-125 sub and purchased the M&K MX-5000 MKII THX Sub. I had also installed the 1st version of the Clark Synthesis tactical transducer with a Carver amp. It was a beast of a setup and I was barely 20.


My next upgrade was for DVD. I was an early adopter and purchased the Pioneer Elite DVL-90 the 1st week of its release. DVD launched in several different test markets which Atlanta was not part of. I had to order my 1st DVD out of state since the only movies available local were IMAX flicks. The DVL-90 was later replaced with the DVL-91 which served me until Blu-Ray.


By 1998, my focus had shifted to video. The 32” TV was not cutting it and because I had been to various A/V shops around Atlanta and Greenville, SC to audition speakers, I had discovered front projection. The holy grail was CRT. The Buckeye (expensive area in Atlanta) HiFiBuys had an 8” Sony CRT with a Faroudja line doubler displayed on a 100” Stewart Screen. I was sold, kind of (no way I could afford this setup). At the end of the day, I ended up with a Sharpvision XVS- 96U which was still a ton of money back then (MSRP was about $7K) and a 100” 16:9 Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 130 Electric Lexus A screen (also not cheap).


Fast forward 5 years, we (now married) moved to a new home with a dedicated, but open (back wall) theater. I sold the Sharp for an Infocus X1 and sold the M&K S125s for M&K S150s (w/ SS-150 surrounds).


Until 2007, the only thing I had upgraded was moving from an original Pronto Remote to an URC MX-3000 and MSC-400.


In 2007, the M&K MX-5000THX sub started to act up so I purchased 2 JL Audio F113 Subs. The M&K Sub was repaired and sold.


Having lived with an open floor plan theater for 7 years with projection, I finally decided to close in the room (2009). After several expensive quotes, I chose to complete the construction myself with help on the sheetrock only. I also decided to build a bar and purchased 4 Coaster theater incliners. I have provided pictures of this part of the project here.


During this build, the Denon AVR-5600 lost the right channel amp (started to smoke). I had received about 12 years of service from the Denon. To replace the Denon AVR, I purchased an Integra DHC-9.8 and the DTA-9.4 7 channel amp. The Clark Synthesis transducer was sold. The M&K SS150s were sold and 4 M&K Surr-250s were purchased for 7.1. The Infocus was replaced with a Sony VLP-VW40 and I purchased a Sony BD player, later replaced with the Oppo. Some ATS Acoustic Panels were added and shortly after, the Integra DTA-9.4 amp was replaced with a NAD M25 THX 7 channel amp.


Though I enjoyed the JL Audio Subs, I did miss the extra sensations that a tactical transducer could provide. I looked at Buttkickers and seriously inquired about Crowson Tech Actuators. When comparing these I saw D-Box mentioned as another league of immersion. I had heard of D-Box many years ago when it 1st was released. The prices were so astronomical and the idea sounded really gimmicky, especially when I could do other tactical systems at a fraction of the price. Fortunately, there was a D-Box dealer less than a mile from my place of work and I decided to finally demo D-Box before I finally wrote it off once and for all. The 1st scene I experienced was the 1st test flight in Iron Man. I was floored, amazed, excided, wowed, you name it. I had to have D-Box, I had to. Then I got the quote for 4 D-Box enabled chairs. Keep in mind, the Coaster chairs needed to be replaced as D-Box would have disintegrated them in no time. The quote was for almost $45K.



Instead of dropping this kind of cash, I was able to purchase 4 United Leather “Formula one” D-Box “ready” seats. These were made so that D-Box Actuators could bolt right in. In order to afford the D-Box actuators, I purchased 2 of D-Box’s SRP-220 platforms and literally dissected them. The platforms used to be cheaper than the chair kits (this is no longer the case). I owe full credit for this idea to AVSforum member “ckenisell.” He not only provided the idea, he provided all the part numbers to accept D-Box’s connections. I had a local machine shop fabricate steal brackets to my specifications/design. Instead of cutting any wires, extensions were made with the exact same connectors (provided by ckenisell) used by D-Box. Pictures of this modification can be seen here. Until this point, D-Box has made the most significant improvement to my theater and has provided more smiles from visitors than anything else I have ever demo’ed before. This includes showing my guests a 100” screen in 1999!


This brings us to present day (Dec 2015).
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post #4 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The Next Phase - Proteus

For this upgrade, I have several criteria that I would like to meet in order to ensure my system moves to the next level of performance.

These include the following.
  • Total blackout. I would like my screen to appear to be floating in infinite space.
  • A projector that can take advantage of the total blackout without the blackout accentuating any of the projector’s flaws.
  • SPL levels to well exceed reference with absolutely no signs of compression or strain.
  • Bass that can keep up with the above SPL levels down to at least 20hz.
  • Access to all current 3D audio formats with at least 9.1.4 capabilities.
  • True timber matching at the driver level (pre-eq).
  • All seating must have D-Box

I have chosen to forgo room aesthetics improvements in favor of total blackout. The front screen wall will be covered by AT cloth. The rest of the room will be painted with Rosco 06003 Velour Black paint and some areas covered with ATS all black acoustic panels.

Based on others that have implemented similar blackout aesthetic rooms with JVC projects have reported great results. In addition, JVC’s new RS600 looks to be an excellent companion to complement this type of room.

For speakers, much time was spent looking at what options were available that met my criteria. Unlike years ago, it has become more difficult to audition certain brands outside of finding those willing to demo their own systems. Because of this, I was unable to audition as many speakers as I would have liked to and I had to rely on specs, shared experiences of others here (avsforum), as many demos as I could attend and my own personal preferences in speaker technology.

I am a huge proponent of having the same speaker drivers across all channels. My only exception to this is to allow for “beefier” LCR speakers while still including the same HF drivers as LCR channels carry most of the audio content and they make the most impact.

Providing very dynamic speakers that maintain high fidelity sound at all volume levels seems to be a common goal that most speakers are unable to deliver. Fortunately, there are more dynamic speaker options today then I can remember in the last 20+ years of being into this hobby. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. For me, I liked the sound of AMT HF (Air Motion Transformer High Frequency) drivers more than CD HF (compression High Frequency) drivers. (It is nice to see more and more companies playing with AMT drivers for HT use across many price ranges.) I quickly took noticed of Quested speakers. Looking closely at the Quested speakers, it became apparent that I could build similar speakers using very similar drivers that are available. Instead of building crossovers, I could simply use DSP units and separate amplification for each driver. But then I was introduced to the Alcons’ Pro-ribbon.

The Pro-ribbon is a proprietary HF driver designed by Alcons. It is not something that currently can be found in other products or sold by its self.

To Be Continued!
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Final Theater Pictures (Pending ETA: TBD)

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Proposed System List








Speakers (9.4.4)
SSP & AMP
Video & Sources
Seating -Tactical/Motion Effects (MFX)
Remote Control
  • URC MX6000 (Qty. 2) – Main Theater remote. 2-way feedback RF & IP remote. 2nd remote is a backup.
  • URC MX3000 (Qty. 2) – May not be used after upgrade.
  • URC MX450 (Qty. 1) – Living room remote.
  • URC MSC-400 – Main controller used for 1 way IR and RS-232 control.
  • URC MRX-2 – Secondary controller used for 2-way RS-232 (D-Box) Since the HEMC does not have RS232, I may not keep this.

Power
Room Acoustics
Wires/Connectors
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Proposed Wiring Diagrams


SSP -> AMPs -> Speakers

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post #8 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Room Layout

Top Elevation <Draft>


Side Elevation <Draft>


Front Elevation <Draft>


3D Wireframe <Draft>






3D Dark <Draft>




3D Models of the Alcons that I Made.

CRMSC-SR


CRMSCompact

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post #9 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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**Previous System** Equipment

Speakers (7.2)
  • LCR – M&K S150mkII THX (Qty. 3)
  • Surrounds – M&K Surround 250 THX (Qty. 4)
  • Subs – JL Audio F113 (Qty. 2)

SSP & AMP
  • Integra DHC-9.8
  • NAD M25 THX Ultra

Video & Sources
  • Sony VPL-VW40
  • Stewart Filmscreen 100” Diagonal 16:9 StudioTek 130 (1st generation)
  • Oppo BDP-93

Seating -Tactical/Motion Effects (MFX)
  • United Leather Formula One (Qty. 4)
  • D-Box SRP-220 (Qty. 2)
  • D-Box MCI -4P
  • HTPC – SilverStone ML03

Remote Control
  • URC-MX6000 (Qty. 2) – Main Theater remote. 2-way feedback RF & IP remote. 2nd remote is a backup.
  • URC-MX3000 (Qty. 2) – Currently not used.
  • URC-MX450 (Qty. 1) – Living room remote.
  • URC-MSC400 – Main controller used for 1 way IR and RS-232 control.
  • URC-MRX-2 – Secondary controller used for 2-way RS-232 (D-Box)

Power
  • PANAMAX MAX 5100

Room Acoustics
  • ATS Acoustics – 1st reflections front and side walls only.
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Previous System Pictures














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Previous System Build Pictures (Current until Dec 2015)





























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Build Pictures











.


















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post #14 of 370 Old 12-05-2015, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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MOD can we please rename this Thread to "Proteus – HQ - High SPL & Low Fatigue - 9.4.4 Trinnov ł Alcons ł Seaton Theater"? I accidentally pasted the wrong name.
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Red face It is an honer to be collaborating on this forum with you Brad

What a privilege, Thanks!

What modeling and diagramming tools are been used, excuse the newbie question.

This one looks like vizio.

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I look forward to seeing this and hearing the Alcons when you have your opening night.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
What a privilege, Thanks!

What modeling and diagramming tools are been used, excuse the newbie question.

This one looks like vizio.

Sketchup - 3D
Layout - Elevations
Wire Diagrams - Visio
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post #18 of 370 Old 12-06-2015, 12:37 AM
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Very nice!

All this alcons talk is making me very curious. You did not want to go with alcons subs?
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Very nice!

All this alcons talk is making me very curious. You did not want to go with alcons subs?
Thank you!

Cost savings. The Alcons Sub are passive and use the Sentinel amps which are very pricey. The Master Slave combo Seaton provides is a great value.

Oh and I stole the idea from The thebland's Le Petit Trianon Theater though he has 6 of them.

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Thank you!

Cost savings. The Alcons Sub are passive and use the Sentinel amps which are very pricey. The Master Slave combo Seaton provides is a great value.
Understandable. It's going to be an amazing system:-)
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Looks like this is going to be pretty awesome.

Thanks

Richard

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Richard Wilson
Custom Installer
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Understandable. It's going to be an amazing system:-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReTrO View Post
Looks like this is going to be pretty awesome.

Thanks

Richard

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Thank you both!
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post #23 of 370 Old 12-06-2015, 11:55 AM
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Looks awesome!
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Quote:
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Oh and I stole the idea from The thebland's Le Petit Trianon Theater

Funny Story!!
Back in 2014 when I conceived the Moons of Neptune I offered Jeff to name his cinema after a moon. He explained how his wife had gone to the Sorbonne and how they loved Paris and the palace and the Le Petit T. building etc which inspired them etc, so he kindly declined, in spite I found the ugliest sounding name....LOL NO, I just gave it a code name because I give all relevant work a moon name so today I came clean that Le Petit Trianon being the pilot NEPTUNE class immersive b-chain only project has had all along a Neptune Moon CO-NAME too, PSAMATHE.

That isn't that ugly sounding right? LOL
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Looks awesome!

Thank you.
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post #26 of 370 Old 12-07-2015, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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.. PSAMATHE.

That isn't that ugly sounding right? LOL
Thank you for sharing. I like Proteus. Psamathe is not bad, but I had to look up the pronunciation. (SAM-ə-thee).
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post #27 of 370 Old 12-07-2015, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Some toys coming in today. Not for the theater but definitely something I should have with expensive things sitting around.

My home was built in 2002 with all Cat 5. Currently my ISP provides 400Mbps and Cat 5 as been bottlenecking my home to 100Mbps. I have 1000' for Cat5e and since I will be pulling wire, I thought it would be a good time to run for security too.
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post #28 of 370 Old 12-07-2015, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I may be making a change to the proposed equipment as Mark (Seaton) will be selling his new F18 18" subs soon! Upgrade the upgrade?
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post #29 of 370 Old 12-07-2015, 10:41 AM
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This theater is going to SICK!!!!

OLD SETUP:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...r-theater.html
NEW SETUP: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?...856#pid2506856
LG 75UH8500 3D DOLBY VISION HDR | SONY 43 ANDROID TV HDR
XBOX ONE S UHD BLU-RAY | PS4 PRO 4K HDR GAMING
MARANTZ SR7011 DTS X | ATMOS 5.1.4 | Auro-3D 9.1
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post #30 of 370 Old 12-07-2015, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
This theater is going to SICK!!!!
Thank you Movie78!
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