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post #151 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhermsmeyer View Post
sounds logical to me, and if you watch 16:9 material, your overall viewing area will be bigger. so you just need to try it right? see how close you can get to recommended height then angle up and see if you correct it with keystoning.
Well there are quite a few pieces to this puzzle in terms of restrictions. I can only bring the screen down to about 6" above the cabinets to avoid the back row having their view obstructed from the front row (I used my wife sitting in the back and me in the front to determine that). Well when placing my 1099s behind the screen with the screen sitting that that "lowest" height, my waveguide on the 1099s is slightly higher than I would like them (regarding height); however, Tux (the designer of the 1099s) said my intended position "should be fine". So with the height requirements from the projector, yet height requirements in the other direction with the seating, and then the desire to have the waveguides at ear-height, I think it's the best compromise I can make....all this assuming I can work out the keystoning issue.....so you are right, I need to try it lol!
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post #152 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by granroth View Post
The scope vs 16:9 debate is a fascinating one to me if only because of the extremely strong opinions some people have on the subject! You can probably guess which side of the equation those with the strongest opinions fall on.

My personal goal was to create the largest possible screen size in all or most ratios. This essentially resolves itself into some relatively simple math when given the physical constraints of the room.

The first physical constraint is your maximum room width. If we go with 100", then we're looking at at height of about 43" for a 2.35:1 cinescope ratio. You will almost surely have more vertical space than 43", though, so given a width of 100", you need a height of 56" for a 16:9 screen.

That means that if you have 56" (4'-8") of available screen height, then you can get the maximum screen size of a scope movie INSIDE of the maximum screen size of a 16:9 screen. It's the best of both worlds since you don't have to compromise on either ratio.

So when does it make sense to go with a scope screen and still maximize both major ratios? In this case, you start with the vertical restrictions. Maybe you have 8' ceilings and with various soffits and risers and cabinets and such, you are reduced to 6' (72"). With that in mind, you will need a 14' wide screen. This means that if you do have a 14' wide room, then your best bet is to go with a scope screen since the maximum sized 16:9 screen will fit entirely inside of it.

Thus, that's the way I think about it -- math given physical restraints.

That's not necessarily how everybody thinks about it, though. There is a not-uncommon school of thought that BY DEFINITION a scope ratio is the biggest possible ratio since that's the ratio that is INTENDED to be the largest. Thus, having a 16:9 screen bigger than your scope screen makes no sense at all since you're violating the intent of the films made in those ratios. That is, no director who shoots in 16:9 (or commonly 1.85:1) would ever intend for the movie to appear larger than a movie shot in 2.35:1.

I... understand where the thinking is coming from and I appreciate the devotion to the intent of the film makers, but I don't agree with it. I wanted my maximum size by math and not by dictum.

Which is my long winded way of saying that I'd definitely go for a 16:9 screen in your case since it'll solve some problems and would give you the best of all worlds regarding screen size in both ratios.
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Originally Posted by Death Dream View Post
Lol I had this same debate in my build thread. My reason for going with 16:9... I want all the pixels my projector can give me lol
Granroth, Didn't I just mention how helpful you are a few posts back? Thank you very much! I had a 16:9 screen before I gutted the space. I liked it. At first I intended to just stick with that as I liked the larger area. But I asked in a couple threads for opinions, and you are right.....there are some "purists" with very strong opinions in favor of the scope screens. I think I sort of got sucked into the "this is the direction everything is heading" argument. Despite those debates, for my space....and my restrictions, 16:9 is best for me. AND now, you Death Dream, and J-Herm have helped convince me I'm on the right track. Thank you!!
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post #153 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Mini-Update:

Not sure that the order that I have been doing things makes logical sense. I think what happens is I get burned out with one portion (like trim) and need to take a break, so I may paint or work on fabric.

BUT, I'm back to trim. I started working on the crown. And I originally planned to end the crown at the angled cabinets at the front, but I really liked the way Jhermeyers looked, so I decided to wrap it around.

I'll need some input once I get to it, but I'm not sure how I intend to do the back (where it's vaulted) regarding crown and fabric panels. I'll address that in more detail shortly.

Also, a little side note for anyone who is interested....a while back I created a simple adjustable crown stop that makes repeatable cuts much easier than just trying to hold the crown square against the fence. Just sharing ideas in case it helps someone.
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post #154 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
Also, a little side note for anyone who is interested....a while back I created a simple adjustable crown stop that makes repeatable cuts much easier than just trying to hold the crown square against the fence. Just sharing ideas in case it helps someone.
That actually would of helped me last week. I was going to put crown molding on my columns but kept screwing the cuts up and just went with smaller corner pieces instead. In the end I think it looks better because my columns had to much going on with real crown molding. Good for another project though, thanks!
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post #155 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Death Dream View Post
That actually would of helped me last week. I was going to put crown molding on my columns but kept screwing the cuts up and just went with smaller corner pieces instead. In the end I think it looks better because my columns had to much going on with real crown molding. Good for another project though, thanks!
Seems to be the theme of this project....."a day late, and a dollar short".

Seriously though, this dumb little jig has saved me a lot of headaches (and a lot less caulk)!
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post #156 of 272 Old 11-01-2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
a while back I created a simple adjustable crown stop that makes repeatable cuts much easier than just trying to hold the crown square against the fence. Just sharing ideas in case it helps someone.
Nice.

I was admiring your miter saw stand too. Does it telescope out to support longer boards?

Some day, I am gonna get one of those portable supports that have adjustable height. For now I have to bribe my kids to come help...

Crown looks great!
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post #157 of 272 Old 11-02-2016, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha, I know what you mean. For the longest time I would prop things under longer boards to support them while I cut them. I somehow convinced the wife I could do better work with the saw and stand lol. I just threw an 8' piece on there and extended the horizontal supports.

Thanks for the suggestions on the crown!
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post #158 of 272 Old 11-05-2016, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
Haha, I know what you mean. For the longest time I would prop things under longer boards to support them while I cut them. I somehow convinced the wife I could do better work with the saw and stand lol. I just threw an 8' piece on there and extended the horizontal supports.

Thanks for the suggestions on the crown!

Is the stand a Bosch as well? It looks nice!


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post #159 of 272 Old 11-05-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
Granroth, Didn't I just mention how helpful you are a few posts back? Thank you very much! I had a 16:9 screen before I gutted the space. I liked it. At first I intended to just stick with that as I liked the larger area. But I asked in a couple threads for opinions, and you are right.....there are some "purists" with very strong opinions in favor of the scope screens. I think I sort of got sucked into the "this is the direction everything is heading" argument. Despite those debates, for my space....and my restrictions, 16:9 is best for me. AND now, you Death Dream, and J-Herm have helped convince me I'm on the right track. Thank you!!
But if you look at the opposite of what he said then the best of both worlds totally changes lol. If you measure the maximum height of space and then have room to go scope from that then scope would give you the biggest 16:9 and even "larger" 2.35 image. That is what I did. I wanted to stay at 16:9 but when the largest 16:9 screen height couldn't also fill my width the option was a no brainer especially since my PJ Sony VW1100 has a scope format to use all the pixels.

It's basically room dependent like he started off saying. But if room is wide enough to fit a scope screen that is the same height as the largest 16:9 screen then the scope option gives more surface area while also getting more use for movies.

Now going quazi IMAX by filling the wall floor to ceiling and side to side is possible with one's budgeted PJ that too could be an option but requires some creative room design since risers need to be very tall for this type of screen. But it's awesome for sure.
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post #160 of 272 Old 11-07-2016, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by texpilot View Post
Is the stand a Bosch as well? It looks nice!


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Yes, it's Bosch as well. Honestly, as much as I love it, it's a little too expensive for what it is. I mean, it's robust and does and awesome job....but retail on it is high (like that of some smaller saws), but I got a package deal where the stand was free with the purchase of the saw.
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post #161 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Well it's been a while since I posted any kind of update on my build. This is mostly because work has been nuts lately. Seems to be leveling back out so maybe I'll have some more time.

In any case, I do have a couple of updates.

I continued to work on the crown around the room. I had mentioned earlier, that I wasn't sure I was going to do in the back where the "vault" was. I didn't really want to bring the crown down the vault because with the riser....the crown would be really low and look funny to me. I decided to keep the crown at the same plane as around the rest of the room. But then I had to consider the fabric panels and how that would all integrate. I decided I would put panels on the vertical surface and then separate panels on the angled surface. But I had to figure out a way to aesthetically transition the panel where it meets the crown. I decided to drop the crown down a little lower creating a "shelf" that the fabric panel will slide into. This will change the angle of the vault slightly, but that shouldn't matter. I hope the pictures better describe what I did. I also painted all the crown. Again, sorry for the bad cell phone pics.
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post #162 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Next I decided to cover the cabinet top with velvet. Man, I spent a lot of time sampling different versions of "black" paint and went the the blackest I could find. However, when the lights are on in the theater, you can really see how much light the velvet absorbs and how much blacker the velvet looks. Cosmetically it doesn't look great with the lights on, but I guess it will serve the purpose. I also have some of the self adhesive flocked material on the way from prostar to apply to the cabinet sides. I guess I will compare the two and make sure they look good together. A side note....I waited until most of the major construction was done to put the velvet on....and within a day, I dropped a board on it and put a small hole in it....murphy's law.
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post #163 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Next, I started fabricating my little stands for my 1099s. I actually extended the cabinet top back almost to the wall with vertical supports under them. I found some rubber backed carpeted squares (like you would use in a workout room) and placed that on both the tops and bottoms of the stands to try to minimize any vibration transfer. Of course that also meant that I had to put a speaker in there to check is out. The red laser was to measure the distance from the center of the waveguide to the approx height of my ears in the MLP. They sit about 3" up from being dead on. But Tux said they have about 15 degrees of dispersion to work with....so I didn't bother tilting them forward for just a couple of inches.
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post #164 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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With the speakers in place, I decided to start on the screen. I hadn't really planned to move onto that part of the project yet, but I needed a change in pace.
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post #165 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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For the mounting, I just intended to use the standard wooden french cleat that is popular on the DIY screens around here. However, I wanted the ability to "adjust" or "level" the screen for small tweaks. The french cleat option is very robust and works well, but you have to be dead on....so I came up with a solution for adjusting it. The cleats on the screen would be hard mounted. Then I intended to drop down with an adjustable cleat for the screen to mate with. I started with cutting the cleat and then then adding slots to them. Next, on the piece they would mate to, I installed wood inserts and then plastic knobs. The pictures should explain the rest...
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post #166 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
For the mounting, I just intended to use the standard wooden french cleat that is popular on the DIY screens around here. However, I wanted the ability to "adjust" or "level" the screen for small tweaks. The french cleat option is very robust and works well, but you have to be dead on....so I came up with a solution for adjusting it. The cleats on the screen would be hard mounted. Then I intended to drop down with an adjustable cleat for the screen to mate with. I started with cutting the cleat and then then adding slots to them. Next, on the piece they would mate to, I installed wood inserts and then plastic knobs. The pictures should explain the rest...
Nice, I like the plastic adjusters you put on there. I also did the wooden french cleat but didn't have a need for those, came out level the first try. I think I got lucky though.

My build thread: The Unprofessional Build
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post #167 of 272 Old 11-14-2016, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice, I like the plastic adjusters you put on there. I also did the wooden french cleat but didn't have a need for those, came out level the first try. I think I got lucky though.
Thanks, Yeah, through building the cabinets, I noticed that there was a slope from one side of the ceiling to the other by about 5/16" of an inch (which if you look close at the pictures, the slots are clearly adjusted to different points). I don't know if I got something off when i dropped the ceiling or if it was in the initial framing of the house, and I did have the self leveling laser so I knew I could get it close. I was just worried that if I was off by any small amount, that I would have to unscrew/rescrew the cleat in attempt to level. I actually had the inserts and knobs already so I just went with it.
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post #168 of 272 Old 11-17-2016, 06:56 PM
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Great idea with the adjustable cleat! In fact, great work overall!

I have another question, before I start to paint in earnest, I need to cut the groves in my soffit for the fabric strip (ala cinemar). I hate my circular saw, and I don't relish holding it over my head trying to make a perfect slot...

How did you cut the grooves for your soffit fabric? Did you make some sort of jig or guide? Did you do it before or after the bottom of the soffit was installed? How deep is your cut?

Keep up the good work!
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post #169 of 272 Old 11-18-2016, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Great idea with the adjustable cleat! In fact, great work overall!

I have another question, before I start to paint in earnest, I need to cut the groves in my soffit for the fabric strip (ala cinemar). I hate my circular saw, and I don't relish holding it over my head trying to make a perfect slot...

How did you cut the grooves for your soffit fabric? Did you make some sort of jig or guide? Did you do it before or after the bottom of the soffit was installed? How deep is your cut?

Keep up the good work!
Thanks!

Ugh! You are bringing up bad memories. It's funny on these builds, we post progress, and results, but often not the route to getting to those results. For the grooves, I initially tried a jigsaw (I've chronicled my problems with cutting with a jigsaw...imagine ME trying to do it upside down in the air). I ended up with a wavy line. I tucked some test fabric into that and it was clearly not straight. I actually ended up using bondo and repairing the cut. I then tried my circular saw. This actually worked pretty decent for me, but was a little tough because I had different levels (ie. sheetrock etc). I actually ended up using an oscillating multi-tool. That worked great. The blade I used was a little too thin for two pieces of fabric to fit into the groove, so I ended up folding a piece of sandpaper in half and slightly widening the slot. The circular saw would have been fine and the blade actually about the right thickness...but I had more control with the multi-tool, so probably either of those would work. Sort of a lot of work for what it was, but I was happy with how it turned out. Regarding depth, for me, I found it was easier to go all the way through the wood. At first I didn't and it was bunching up and not creating a "crisp" edge. When I went all the way through I could just push the fabric deep and taught. I've pulled so much info from other folks around here, but a LOT has still been trial and error. Hopefully this muddy response helped save you some of the headaches I had. Here's how my turned out. You can see, I still have quite a bit of touching up to do...that's why most of my pictures are usually at distance
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post #170 of 272 Old 11-18-2016, 10:38 AM
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Missed this thread till now. Subbed. Looks great!
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post #171 of 272 Old 11-18-2016, 04:12 PM
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Cranky... Nice work!

It's been 4 more days and no update. Work week? bah. I've been lurking here for some time. Re-read the whole thread again.

Screen wall looks very nicely done.

With the thought of the 16x9 and the 1st row riser, and the waveguide, and all the moving parts, does that put your eye level at the infamous 1/3 screen height for first row and 2/3 screen height for the 2nd row like other threads and forums push for?

I love the panel look wainscoting BTW. I was wondering why you had went with no sound treatment on bottom half of side walls though?. I've seen in the acoustic treatments thread that others perform more absorption on the bottom half and more reflective on the top half for envelopment. Bass traps in your front corners like you have are a must with those 1099's in play!

I'm just getting started on 2.0 and now you've got me thinking on a couple of items. Looking forward to this home stretch you are entering!

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post #172 of 272 Old 11-19-2016, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Missed this thread till now. Subbed. Looks great!
Thanks Sigma! And Welcome!
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post #173 of 272 Old 11-19-2016, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Cranky... Nice work!
Thanks sirjaymz!!

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
It's been 4 more days and no update. Work week? bah. I've been lurking here for some time. Re-read the whole thread again.
Ha! I know, I go through spurts where I make a lot of progress and then not so much. Right now, I'm working on wiring insteon controller outside the theater and finalizing details that probably don't interest anybody much.

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
Screen wall looks very nicely done.
Thanks. It's really just my humble version of what I have seen around these threads for so many years.

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
With the thought of the 16x9 and the 1st row riser, and the waveguide, and all the moving parts, does that put your eye level at the infamous 1/3 screen height for first row and 2/3 screen height for the 2nd row like other threads and forums push for?
It's pretty close to that. To put things in perspective...I have the waveguide on the 1099s "about" ear height (ears are actually a tad lower), but most people's eyes are about the same height as their ears....so you can kind of see where eye level is. That puts the second row in the upper portion of the 2/3rds window.

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
I love the panel look wainscoting BTW. I was wondering why you had went with no sound treatment on bottom half of side walls though?. I've seen in the acoustic treatments thread that others perform more absorption on the bottom half and more reflective on the top half for envelopment. Bass traps in your front corners like you have are a must with those 1099's in play!
Thank you again! Yeah, this was a area that I really debated. This build has been full of compromises. It seems that aesthetics vs. function has been the biggest variable. You are right, I've been up and down the sound treatment thread as well. I debated on still doing the raised panels, but with a "window" cutout to allow for some absorption. And if you really want to ask "why" on some of these decisions....I really wish I wouldn't have come up so high with the wainscoting. In the end, to answer your question...I couldn't come up with a good solution for absorption on the bottom that still carried the aesthetic elements I was looking for. I think the way I convinced myself this was ok is: I played the room before all the efforts and thought it sounded great. And while I realize that adding anything impacts the "room"...I'm hoping that the efforts I made regarding sound only improved that previous experience. I'll find out soon if that logic paid off or if I made a huge mistake!

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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
I'm just getting started on 2.0 and now you've got me thinking on a couple of items. Looking forward to this home stretch you are entering!
I just went through you build thread on 2.0. Looks like you are off to a great start! I had previously seen your 1.0 and loved what you did in that unique space! You are just a rock's skip away....I'd love to come see your space when you are done!
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post #174 of 272 Old 11-19-2016, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
I just went through you build thread on 2.0. Looks like you are off to a great start! I had previously seen your 1.0 and loved what you did in that unique space! You are just a rock's skip away....I'd love to come see your space when you are done!
Thanks for the words of encouragement. 1.0 was a tough build, intricate angles, and odd layout, but had to make some lemonade out of it.
I was able to stop 1.0 on an invite about a month ago, back there for business, and was able to hang out in the room one afternoon for the Vikings vs Packers game. I was very pleased with the final outcome the room. New owner had set it up very nicely, and we ran some of the demo discs as well. Very nice experience, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X are the way to go.

It's tough to get going on 2.0 build when the garage is still a disaster from the move down. Seems like 1 project always gets in the way of another and it consumes some the steam to get going on it. But reading your build, jhermsmeyer's along with javeryh builds, provides a view of encouragement on getting started.

You will definitely have to stop by here when I make some progress, but in the mean time, sometime next week, the wife and I might be headed to Winstar for some adult fun, and may have to stop by your place and see your build in person! We can talk shop.

In the mean time, keep up the good work!

JAMES JONES
HT1.0 | HT2.0
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post #175 of 272 Old 11-20-2016, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by crankycowboy View Post
Thanks!

Ugh! You are bringing up bad memories. It's funny on these builds, we post progress, and results, but often not the route to getting to those results. For the grooves, I initially tried a jigsaw (I've chronicled my problems with cutting with a jigsaw...imagine ME trying to do it upside down in the air). I ended up with a wavy line. I tucked some test fabric into that and it was clearly not straight. I actually ended up using bondo and repairing the cut. I then tried my circular saw. This actually worked pretty decent for me, but was a little tough because I had different levels (ie. sheetrock etc). I actually ended up using an oscillating multi-tool. That worked great. The blade I used was a little too thin for two pieces of fabric to fit into the groove, so I ended up folding a piece of sandpaper in half and slightly widening the slot. The circular saw would have been fine and the blade actually about the right thickness...but I had more control with the multi-tool, so probably either of those would work. Sort of a lot of work for what it was, but I was happy with how it turned out. Regarding depth, for me, I found it was easier to go all the way through the wood. At first I didn't and it was bunching up and not creating a "crisp" edge. When I went all the way through I could just push the fabric deep and taught. I've pulled so much info from other folks around here, but a LOT has still been trial and error. Hopefully this muddy response helped save you some of the headaches I had. Here's how my turned out. You can see, I still have quite a bit of touching up to do...that's why most of my pictures are usually at distance
Great info & very helpful. As always, thanks!

I am now debating between my multi-tool (which doesn't see much action) or buying a 6.5" makita cordless circular saw (which would mean a new tool I have wanted for a long time). you can probably guess which way I am leaning...
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post #176 of 272 Old 11-20-2016, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Great info & very helpful. As always, thanks!

I am now debating between my multi-tool (which doesn't see much action) or buying a 6.5" makita cordless circular saw (which would mean a new tool I have wanted for a long time). you can probably guess which way I am leaning...
Ha! You are so much like me in that regard. I almost look for excuses to buy new tools!
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post #177 of 272 Old 11-20-2016, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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On a separate note, @jhermsmeyer has been keeping me on track by asking when I was going to FINALLY test my projector and the keystone dilemma. I've been putting it off because....well frankly it would be a shame to put this much work into this thing just to have a degraded image due to keystone correction and not putting the screen at the suggested heights. Due to all the other parts of this project, a new projector isn't really in the budget....but who in these forums sticks to budgets with these builds? I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a new projector over the next couple of weeks. One that will fit into the build a little better. Now, to put on the salesman cap to convince the wife
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post #178 of 272 Old 11-21-2016, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jhermsmeyer View Post
Great idea with the adjustable cleat! In fact, great work overall!

I have another question, before I start to paint in earnest, I need to cut the groves in my soffit for the fabric strip (ala cinemar). I hate my circular saw, and I don't relish holding it over my head trying to make a perfect slot...

How did you cut the grooves for your soffit fabric? Did you make some sort of jig or guide? Did you do it before or after the bottom of the soffit was installed? How deep is your cut?

Keep up the good work!
I'm pretty sure I used a dremel (and a steady hand) to cut my angle in the soffit for the angled corners. I stapled the fabric on the topside. I'm pretty sure my thread goes into the details.
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post #179 of 272 Old 11-22-2016, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure I used a dremel (and a steady hand) to cut my angle in the soffit for the angled corners. I stapled the fabric on the topside. I'm pretty sure my thread goes into the details.
Actually, that reminds me! As I have stated a couple times in this thread....I used your theater as my primary inspiration for my build. So I actually started with a dremel, based on your successful strategy. All I can say, is I quickly realized that the only thing I'm worse at cutting wood at than a jigsaw, is a dremel! I tried a couple of ways. I even had the little "router" attachment to hold the bit flush with the surface, but regardless of speed....the bit would grab and jerk. I couldn't get a straight line. I even tried with the flex shaft attachment. I clearly blocked out parts of that experience from my head.

On a separate note, I wanted to thank you again for all the details you put in your thread regarding your build. I probably have been through that thread all the way through multiple times. Also, I still need to call you about how to integrate main lobby and the other addons to my insteon lighting etc.
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post #180 of 272 Old 11-22-2016, 10:28 AM
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... about how to integrate main lobby and the other addons to my insteon lighting etc.

I'm definitely interested in your Insteon setup. I got an IR-Linc but haven't set it up yet ... read lots of positives and negatives about it ... Meant to set it up before the return period expired, but missed that by a mile LOL At least I got it on mega sale for only $30. Hoping that's not because it's awful and about to be discontinued! My backup plan is the Insteon multi-button remote if the IR-Linc isn't reliable.


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