Mangrove Trail Theater Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 03-21-2016, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Mangrove Trail Theater Build

My wife and I are purchasing our first home, so this won't be an elaborate build nor will it be anywhere near as nice as a lot of the builds on here. But I figure I need to start somewhere to really determine what I like and don't like in a theater and then I can always start Build 2.0 (might be a little premature to be planning that already). The house will be complete around June 15, 2016, so I am still in the planning stages and things can always change. The theater will probably start a couple weeks after we move in.

I know many of you recommend clips and hat channel, DD + GG, room-within-a-room, etc. but for now it is only my wife and I in the house and she says she doesn't care about sound leakage. We will see what happens once the theater is built, but I am already thinking clips and hat channel and DD+GG will be part of Build 2.0. For now, the room will be a builder-grade finished room. The wife wants the theater up and working as quick as possible, so I plan to build with what is there to start. This will at least let me acquire most of the equipment (since I have none) and get it up and running.

I really like Youthman 1.0 (Stevens Home Theater - The Fun Begins) and The Salt Mine (The Salt Mine - A Dedicated Family Theater) theater builds so I am using them as a template for my ideas. Both are smaller sized rooms so they gave me a good feel for my layout. I also loved their build threads and the pictures they provided so I hope to do the same, even though my build will be fairly basic. No front stage or columns for this build even though those really make it feel like a true theater.

The room is 19'x11' with 8' ceilings. It is smaller than I would like, but don't have any options to change that. I just have to work with what I have. The room is on the second floor with open attic above which is nice for me to run my own wires.

I am planning on an AT screen (don't know exact size yet, but thinking around 120" to 130" diagonal). We will be watching a pretty even mix of TV, sports, and movies so I think 16:9 screen is my best bet. Any opinions to contradict this?

I am thinking 6 chairs, even though it may be a little tight width wise. Haven't picked brand yet. I will be building a riser for the back row, probably 12"-14" high.
IOIOIOI
IOIOIOI

I am going to run a 7.2.4 atmos setup. Due to WAF and room size limitations, I am going with all in-wall speakers. I know some may frown on me for that, but not many options for Build 1.0. However, I am trying to use decent quality speakers with most of them having built in/on backer boxes which many saw is a must for in-walls.

Planned Equipment:
AVR - Denon x6200
LCR - Def Tech UIW RLS III
Surround - Def Tech UIW RSS III
Rear - Def Tech DI 5.5 LCR (not totally decided on these yet)
Atmos - Micca M-8C or R-8C (waiting to read reviews on R-8C)
Subs - undecided, probably 2x 10" or 2x 12"
PJ - Sony VPLHW40ES
Screen - not decided yet since don't know size

Actual Equipment:
Monoprice Monolith 7 amp
Denon X4300H

Denon HEOS Drive
Denon HEOS HomeCinema (for downstairs TV)


I will have an equipment rack on the back wall of the theater. I am also running the Denon Heos Drive system for the whole home audio and that will go in the rack as well. I figure the rack will vent to the attic above, but any suggestions are welcome.

Here is a close to scale layout of the room. I placed the speakers as close to Dolby recommendations as possible. The only ones that are really outside the limits are the rears, but for in-wall, there isn't too many possible locations.
media room layout.pdf

Looking at the back wall. Door is on left, equipment rack area is on right.


Back of right wall. You can see the sconce wiring.


Back of left wall. equipment rack area is in the corner.


Front of left wall


Screen wall


Front of right wall


Full room shot from doorway


equipment rack area. The rack will only be about 4' tall, not a floor to ceiling unit.


Since this isn't a sealed room (yet), I don't think I need to worry about HVAC but I am going to keep the equipment heat out of the theater.

My main questions at this point are:
1. I have concerns with the rears being right behind the back row. The front row will be used most of the time, but I don't want the rear row to only hear rear speakers when used. Any other options? In-ceiling?
2. Anything I am missing with my layout?
3. Sub recommendations? I have considered in-wall, but not sure that is the best route. May just have to have the subs in the room.
4. Any reason to not go 16:9 screen?
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:26 PM
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do you have any questions?
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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do you have any questions?
I will soon, but I need to get my layout uploaded and the rest of my plan laid out before I start asking. I know you are a wealth of information on here and I will greatly appreciate your input! I have read through many of your builds in awe of the work you do. You are a fantastic designer and you are very generous to help everyone on here! So thank you!
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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with the rears being right behind the back row, would I be better off using a bipole for the rears (like my surrounds) or should I stick with monopole?
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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after reading the 2.35:1 CIH chat for hours yesterday, I think I have changed my mind and will go with a 2.35:1 screen. This should fit better in my space anyways since I have a little more width than I do height. A 16:9 screen would have needed a pretty tall riser for the back row since the screen would have been pretty close to the floor. Now I just need to decide on a size....
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:06 AM
 
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Are your room measurements stud to stud? Have you taken into account drywall and treatments?

I think You too ambitious for your seating. My theater is 10'10" wall to wall (2" smaller than yours)

And a single love seat row of 3 barely fits. It was the most narrow I could find and it 80". A row like you show is minimum 88"

Also the second row will need to be far enough back to recline and not kick the row in front of it. At 19' plus say 3' for a false wall. You have 16' of floor space to play with. 2 rows might make front row too close to the screen

How many people will you have in the room 90% of the time? Do you NEED 6 seats?

Just some things to think about.

Also I highly recommend the 2.35 screen. It's what I have and LOVE it. Really gives the true cinema feel

Looking forward to your build. Ask away with those questions!
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Are your room measurements stud to stud? Have you taken into account drywall and treatments?

I think You too ambitious for your seating. My theater is 10'10" wall to wall (2" smaller than yours)

And a single love seat row of 3 barely fits. It was the most narrow I could find and it 80". A row like you show is minimum 88"

Also the second row will need to be far enough back to recline and not kick the row in front of it. At 19' plus say 3' for a false wall. You have 16' of floor space to play with. 2 rows might make front row too close to the screen

How many people will you have in the room 90% of the time? Do you NEED 6 seats?

Just some things to think about.

Also I highly recommend the 2.35 screen. It's what I have and LOVE it. Really gives the true cinema feel

Looking forward to your build. Ask away with those questions!
Thanks for the thoughts and questions Brian.

The room measurements are about 1-2" less than the stud to stud dimensions, so I accounted for most of sheetrock. For instance, the width stud to stud is 11'-1" and ceiling is 8'-1". I'm not doing DD+GG, so any treatments will be on-wall after the fact for acoustics.

As for seating, I know it will be tight... But the wife really wants 6, and I would like it too. If I have 132" wide and take away 90" for seating, then I have 42" to split on either side. I may have to favor the seating to one wall to allow a wider walkway. I don't really plan to have a full walkway on either side of the seating, probably just one side. That is just a sacrifice I have to make to fit 6 chairs. If we hate it or it just doesn't work once we try it, then I will drop down to 4 chairs.

I am planning to do an AT screen with in-wall speakers behind, so I am currently not planning to have a false wall in front. This is the only way I would actually fit 2 rows since it will save me those ~3' of length. I spoke with Craig/JD at AVS and he didn't see any issue with having the screen on wall with in-walls behind it. This may not be the best approach acoustically, but I will see if it bothers me too much.

Thanks for the affirmation of 2.35! I think I will like it a lot more also. After all, it is a home theater, so it should have that theater feel!

I guess it may be deceiving to call my room a theater since it will be lacking a lot of things that are typical in a theater...
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Old 03-25-2016, 04:10 PM
 
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What is your subwoofer plan?
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Old 03-25-2016, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What is your subwoofer plan?
Still undecided on that... hoping to get some input from people on here as to what is best with my setup/situation. I would like to have at least 2, which I could get by with in-room ones if only 2. I don't think I will have room for 4 in-room so a couple of them would have to be in-wall if I did more than 2, which isn't ideal I know.

I think I will DIY my sub also to try and save some cost plus I would enjoy building it. So I just need some help with what build plans would suit me best.
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Old 03-25-2016, 05:21 PM
 
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Reason I ask is. Do you want all your speakers invisible? If so the subs would need to go behind the screen. Otherwise I don't see where you will put them. Unless you just put them under the screen.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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That's my current dilemma. If someone has good suggestions for in-wall subs, then I would prefer that route. However, I have yet to read about any good in wall subs. Its much easier to get good in wall speakers. So if I just have to have the subs in the room, then thats what I will do. In room subs would probably just sit under the screen on the floor. Not too many other good options for me.

I chose in wall speakers for 2 reasons. 1) WAF 2) since I am limited on room, having in walls will give me the most space possible for seating. I think I could live with 2 subs in room if I have to since they wouldn't take up seating space.
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:46 AM
 
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Still confused why 6 seats is a must. Why does the Wifey want that?

The way I went about it was thinking literally it would be no more than 2 people in my HT 99% of the time. So I wanted best sound and presentation I could have without sacrificing anything for that small shot at more seating

In your case the back row is going to have poor sound anyhow.

Have ou thought about a row of 3 then a bar top behind it? With bar stools. Very common here. Would allow you a false screen with all and you could go subs behind it and not in walls

Just a thought.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The reason for 6 is this...

We have my whole family and all of our best friends in DFW with us and more friends moving here next year. We are also the first ones of any of our friends here to buy a house. So we know we will have people over a lot. Plus we will be the only ones of my family to have a movie theater in our house.

Because of that, we want 6 that way we can have people over to enjoy the theater and not limit it to just 2 people.


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Old 03-26-2016, 10:17 AM
 
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The reason for 6 is this...

We have my whole family and all of our best friends in DFW with us and more friends moving here next year. We are also the first ones of any of our friends here to buy a house. So we know we will have people over a lot. Plus we will be the only ones of my family to have a movie theater in our house.

Because of that, we want 6 that way we can have people over to enjoy the theater and not limit it to just 2 people.


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Very valid reason just trying to do you right hahah

I think you can make it work. Just might not be optimal
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Old 03-27-2016, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Very valid reason just trying to do you right hahah

I think you can make it work. Just might not be optimal

And I appreciate the questioning attitude! That's what we all need on here sometimes to make sure we are doing things right.

And I totally understand it wont be optimal, at least for the back row. If I can make the front row at least decent, then that may be good enough for me for now.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I have spent several hours this week trying to figure out a good sub solution. I would like to do DIY since it will provide the best bang for the buck. Plus, I like building stuff.

My room is ~1672 cu. ft. so definitely on the smaller side. I am thinking 2x 12" or 2x 15" ported subs with iNuke powering. I would lean towards the UM-12 or UM15 for my builds with DIYSG boxes or Marty cube and probably iNuke6000DSP.

Any thoughts or opinions on this? Will dual 12" subs be enough for this room size? If I go 12", is the iNuke6000 overkill?

I feel the 12" may be enough for this room size but no room for expansion. However, the 15" may be slightly bigger than needed but gives plenty of head room. Also, a box for the 12" would be smaller and possibly fit better in the room with everything else being hidden in wall.

Last edited by freestylr; 04-01-2016 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:45 PM
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after reading the 2.35:1 CIH chat for hours yesterday, I think I have changed my mind and will go with a 2.35:1 screen. This should fit better in my space anyways since I have a little more width than I do height. A 16:9 screen would have needed a pretty tall riser for the back row since the screen would have been pretty close to the floor. Now I just need to decide on a size....
seat height ultimately drove my decision as well. that being said, I will still have 16:9 content-it will just be smaller - I'm positioning my projector so that zoomed all the way out it will project 2.35:1 and zoomed all the way in it will project 16:9 with the exact same vertical scale. (that's the plan anyways, lol)
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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seat height ultimately drove my decision as well. that being said, I will still have 16:9 content-it will just be smaller - I'm positioning my projector so that zoomed all the way out it will project 2.35:1 and zoomed all the way in it will project 16:9 with the exact same vertical scale. (that's the plan anyways, lol)
I will be doing the same thing - using 16:9 content on the 2.35 screen, just smaller. From everything I have read, that is the better route to go.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:50 PM
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I will be doing the same thing - using 16:9 content on the 2.35 screen, just smaller. From everything I have read, that is the better route to go.
what's your plan for masking? or are you just going to let it go?

I figure 90% of my viewing will be 16:9 and the rest 2.35:1
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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what's your plan for masking? or are you just going to let it go?

I figure 90% of my viewing will be 16:9 and the rest 2.35:1
I would eventually like to just do manual masking with magnets. But that's still a ways down the road, so not 100% sure.

I think we will be 40-50% 16:9 and the rest 2.35, so may not even need to worry about masking.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:02 PM
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I would eventually like to just do manual masking with magnets. But that's still a ways down the road, so not 100% sure.

I think we will be 40-50% 16:9 and the rest 2.35, so may not even need to worry about masking.
trying to figure out how you do magnets. I love the idea - just not sure how I would pull it off.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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trying to figure out how you do magnets. I love the idea - just not sure how I would pull it off.
I'm not entirely sure myself, I have just seen a lot of people utilize them on here. Need to do more research on this topic...
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:04 PM
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I'm not entirely sure myself, I have just seen a lot of people utilize them on here. Need to do more research on this topic...
subbed
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Old 04-02-2016, 05:27 AM
 
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It's pretty easy actually. You just router out a hole the depth of the magnet in the screen frame. Then attach the other side of the magnet to the masking.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:10 AM
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I have spent several hours this week trying to figure out a good sub solution. I would like to do DIY since it will provide the best bang for the buck. Plus, I like building stuff.

My room is ~1672 cu. ft. so definitely on the smaller side. I am thinking 2x 12" or 2x 15" ported subs with iNuke powering. I would lean towards the UM-12 or UM15 for my builds with DIYSG boxes or Marty cube and probably iNuke6000DSP.

Any thoughts or opinions on this? Will dual 12" subs be enough for this room size? If I go 12", is the iNuke6000 overkill?

I feel the 12" may be enough for this room size but no room for expansion. However, the 15" may be slightly bigger than needed but gives plenty of head room. Also, a box for the 12" would be smaller and possibly fit better in the room with everything else being hidden in wall.
I think you'll be fine with dual 12's and the 6000. The inuke has a limiter so you decrease the amount of power going to the subs plus it will give you flexibility to get more subs in the future. Of course the 15's would be better but you'll be dealing with a larger box as well.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I went to the house this weekend to layout the speaker locations and drill holes in the wall header to make it easier to fish the wire through later on.

The front speakers will be in ~24" from each side wall and the center can ALMOST go directly in the middle of the wall. The center will be off center by about 1-2" to the right but I don't think that is enough to be noticeable. It would annoy me to no end if you could see the speakers, but since they will be behind an AT screen, I think I can live with it. Guess time will tell...

The surrounds won't be exactly as I hoped, but still not bad. They will end up being closer to 90 degrees to the front row of seats instead of between the 2 rows. The left wall has a weird double stud just in front of the sconce (you can see it in the picture above) which prevents me from putting the surround a little further back on this wall. Since the front row will be used more than the rear, I think this is probably better anyways.

The back wall of the theater is a mess in terms of framing. It seems way over built and thus there is no good speaker wire access since I would have to drill through 2 different 2x6 headers. Because of that, I am thinking I may just route the speaker wire down the wall inside the theater and do my best to hide it (paint it or something). It's either this or just not have rear speakers. Since the front row of seating will be used more, I would like to keep rear speakers since they will be separated from the front to give a better effect.

I will try and post a picture showing speaker locations on the pictures.

Side note rant.
During our pre-construction meeting, I asked the builder if I could locate the thermostats in the house. He told me no, that the HVAC people place them wherever they decide and he (the builder) can't change their location because it would void the warranty. I call BS!!!!

Well this weekend, I noticed where the HVAC people had located them... one right next to the front door (to get a draft every time the door opens) and the upstairs thermostat is actually in a bedroom!! Needless to say, I am furious! But to ease my mind, I drilled holes in the necessary locations to allow me to fish a new thermostat wire down to the locations I want once we close on the house. This is such an unnecessary and STUPID way of doing things. I can't believe the builder wouldn't let me locate them where I wanted. This is definitely a lesson learned for the future.
Rant over.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Our house closing got pushed back a month, so now we won't be in the house until July 27th. Sucks, but I guess that is just part of building new.

To keep my hopes up, I ordered my DIY sub stuff last night! I order 2 of the 3 cu. ft. sealed sub flat packs from DIYSG and also ordered 2 of the 15" ultimax subs from Parts Express. I went with 2 sealed subs since I have a small room and the sealed boxes have a much smaller footprint than ported, so easier to fit in the room. The subs are back ordered until mid July, but they should be here just in time for moving in. I plan to get the boxes built and finished once the flat packs come in so once the subs get here I can just put them in.

I am waiting to order the iNuke and the rest of my equipment until closer to our move in date. The room is fully sheetrocked, taped and mudded, and should be painted by now too. I will post pictures of that soon.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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The room has been finished out by the builder. We won't move in for another month, but here are some pictures of the finished room. They still have to do touch-up painting throughout the house so yes, the paint will be fixed before we move in.

Looking into the room from the door.



Back wall


Equipment area. I will add my own doors to this so that none of the lights or fans are noticeable in the theater room.



Screen wall.



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Last edited by freestylr; 06-28-2016 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I have also started building the boxes for my subs. I ordered 2x 3.0 cu. ft. boxes from DIYSG for 2x UM-15-22. I highly recommend DIYSG. Very well cut and packaged and super easy to assemble with glue and a few clamps.

I do have a couple questions. This is my first foray into DIY subs so I just want to double check I am doing everything correctly. I will be running dual UM-15-22's in 3.0 cu. ft. enclosures with iNuke6000DSP and Denon X6200.

I am about to order these items to finish my sub build.
4x http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik...ector--092-190
1x http://www.parts-express.com/parts-e...-roll--260-542
2x http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik...mount--092-054.

I know I will also need:
  • poly fill from wal-mart
  • RCA to XLR cables to go from Denon X6200 to iNuke. Will get these from monoprice once I know what length I need.

Is there anything I am missing? Any reason I shouldn't use any of the items listed?

Is Dura Tex the best thing for painting the boxes? I want a smooth finished look, not a textured look.

Last edited by freestylr; 06-28-2016 at 01:34 PM.
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