Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 294 - AVS Forum
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post #8791 of 10427 Old 03-27-2012, 10:45 AM
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The Tv Is in a corner and probably should not be. That was done to save space in the room. All the components are in the closet. The closet door is missing and is located on wall with the couch.

Still waiting on the Real Traps room acoustics service...

Really not sure how the room can be treated. I mean the corners are tight and packed with furiture and/ or speaker locations. I am open to any panel absorber designs that can be effective while maintaing a small footrpint.

The speakers pictured below are supposed to be my new fronts. They are Focal 8" mids and Morel tweeters. The cabinets were made in my garage.
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post #8792 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 11:37 AM
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I originally posted this in the DIY Acoustic Treatment thread, but as it has been inactive for a long time, I don't believe many people saw it. I am posting it here hoping to get some feedback as to any shortcomings there might be in my design...

I have read a lot of the posts on the AT Master thread and since I am not an engineer or really an audiophile, much of what is "discussed" here goes over my head. I think I have picked up the basics and would like some feedback on my plan.

I have an oddly shaped room and hope to improve the basic acoustics by placing some panels in the places usually suggested for calming first reflections and by building some corner base traps.

I am trying to come up with a simple construction plan using OC703 spray glued to some 1/4" plywood with significant cutouts to allow the sound to penetrate through to the void between the back of the OC703 and the wall. All of the edges, front and rear would have drywall corner bead on them to allow for an attractive and impact resistant corner to the acoustically transparent fabric covering for the front and all the sides.

I am not much of an artist, but here is a sketch of what I am thinking of doing:


So, the OC703 would have minimal plywood between it and the space behind it. The sides behind the absorbent material would be as open as possible yet covered with the cloth covering and the edges would be protected by the corner bead. In order to maximize the benefit of the absorber the sides would not be covered by a reflective wooden frame.

Am I headed the correct direction? From what I have read and the examples I have seen, I think so. BUT...I have been known to be pretty thick sometime.

Thanks for your patience.
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post #8793 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 01:12 PM
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I think you'll find that a 2' x 4' x 2" thick OC703 board is stiff enough to support itself in a frame like this. I would think you can do without the 1/4" plywood backing, and simply support the OC703 around the edges of the panel
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post #8794 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 01:26 PM
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LeBon, thanks for your response.

The reason for the plywood is to give me something to attach the standoffs to and to be able to leave the sides open so as to not cover them with a reflective (wood) frame.

My impression is that by leaving the sides of the OC703 open and leaving the sides of the air space behind the OC703 open, I would be maximizing the effect I am looking for. Also, the plywood behind the OC703 would be mostly cut away retaining just enough to retain rigidity.

By "simply support the OC703 around the edges of the panel", I am assuming that you mean putting some sort of frame around the perimeter?

Again, thanks for your feedback.
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post #8795 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 02:29 PM
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The plywood is going to defeat the purpose of having the air gap. You are making something that will have unknown results, that will only lessen the effectiveness. I say drop the plywood from the design.
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post #8796 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 02:58 PM
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Many of the absorptive 2x4 wall panels I have seen have a wood frame around them. Acoustimac or ATS Acoustics will sell you the frames ready-made. I wouldn't worry about the frame around the edge.
You can also spray the edges of the OC703 with a urethane or the like to stiffen if you like.
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post #8797 of 10427 Old 04-01-2012, 03:12 PM
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I think as a result of these responses, I will re-think the design.

I have not actually gotten my hands on the OC703 yet, so I have not played with it yet to see how rigid it is.

Could one use blocks of OC703 itself as standoffs?

I will await the arrival of the material and proceed from there.

Thanks for the feedback!
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post #8798 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

The plywood is going to defeat the purpose of having the air gap. You are making something that will have unknown results, that will only lessen the effectiveness. I say drop the plywood from the design.

+1.. Also you want the panel to be as open as possible on the sides. Trust me after spending may days in the lab is does make a difference

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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post #8799 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 09:12 AM
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The panels I chose were originally 4" with Roxul. I am going to make them soon. I went with 2" OC 703 for my side wall panels. Just made a 2" frame all around and cut slots in the sides. Picked that up from the forums somewhere The frames are pine 1x and I bought 4 table cloths 84 x 60" which wrapped the pannels nicely with some to spare. Also spent a couple bucks on internal corner braces and used a nailer to glue and nail the pieces.

The panels look nice and do the job well. I noticed that as a result of slotting the frames the overall weight was decreased significantly.

Overall, the project is worth it but still very expensive for foam and wood panels. I would definitely do this again.
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post #8800 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 10:34 AM
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I appreciate hearing about the fact that keeping the sides open will make very little difference to the overall performance of the panel. I had been under the impression that keeping the sides open would enhance the performance significantly.

Also, not to belabor the point, but it seems I didn't make it clear in my original presentation of the concept for the panels, but I intended to cut away all but a small bit of the plywood...leaving only enough to keep it strong enough to mount the standoffs and hanging method to.

The original concept was to make a panel that would be effective and VERY easy to build (no frame to glue/screw/brace together) and acoustically only just slightly different than hanging just the absorbent material by itself.

It seemed to me that if one left a 1" perimeter of plywood with perhaps a 1" cross member, that there would be very little defeating of the advantages of the absorbent material, and very little construction effort.

Maybe I am still missing the point?
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post #8801 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 11:50 AM
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I would think that would work fine. You could probably do without the cross-member, as well.
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post #8802 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 12:58 PM
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Go to your local Lowes and ask for "Saw Tooth" hanger brackets. I think these brackets are best. for frame style that typically capture the foam panel.

I think that having cut slots in the sides I imagine that sound is being redirected in the form of remaining reflections. Away from the listening position. However, I bet this works better for lower tones in a 4 inch thick trap.???
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post #8803 of 10427 Old 04-03-2012, 12:59 PM
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These things are so light!
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post #8804 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 12:07 PM
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I would like to get some porous absorbers with a print of my choice, does anybody know of a manufacturer that sells products like that? I guess a bass trap with custom print also would be interesting. Any help is appreciated.
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post #8805 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 01:05 PM
 
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I believe GIK offers dye sublimation printing suitable for broadband porous absorber panel facing.
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post #8806 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 01:12 PM
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I believe I have seen elsewhere on AVS Forum that there was at least one company that was offering a service whereby you send them a picture and they would print it the size you wanted on AT material. Unfortunately, I don't remember which thread it was on...

---I did a quick search and found this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20040455
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post #8807 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 02:05 PM
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Besides the popularly recommended GIK folks, some links I've had saved for a while (but no direct or indirect experience with them):

http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com...ass-traps.aspx

http://www.acoustimac.com/index.php/...rt-panels.html

This next one is a little sketchy in terms of ideal performance from a panel (limited depth options, or so it would appear at first glance):

http://www.msr-inc.com/salon_acoustics/salon.html

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post #8808 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Actually the issue of open sides is a rather moot issue.

The additional losses due to edge diffraction are about equivalent to any additional absorptive losses offered by open edges, and the convenience for handling and hanging a frame far out-way any imagined benefit of an unframed panel.

Interesting. I've always liked the more finished look imparted by some of the metal frames I've seen (along the lines of these, for example) but avoided seriously considering given my (apparently) mistaken old view that these would be too detrimental to ideal performance.

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post #8809 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 06:39 PM
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I have decided to mount the panels floating away from the wall. Are there any methods that will allow for least material and drilling?
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post #8810 of 10427 Old 04-05-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:


But I suspect it will also be a message that is slow to permeate and dispel the world of online 'urban acoustical myths'.... So don't be surprised when you see the topic debated....

Not unexpected. It's audio after all, where no idea ever really falls totally out of favor, no matter how ridiculous.

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post #8811 of 10427 Old 04-06-2012, 01:23 PM
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IPhone app messed up...posted in wrong thread. Can't delete. Will be back in the future though.
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post #8812 of 10427 Old 04-06-2012, 01:52 PM
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Thanks for all the tips guys! I think i probably will go for the homemade variant, the price is pretty steep for the prefabricated porus absorbers. Which frankly is a pretty simple construction.
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post #8813 of 10427 Old 04-07-2012, 06:49 PM
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Good to know that slotting the panels makes no difference. When I make my bass traps I will NOT slot them and save alot of time. However, slotted traps save weight.

My wall absorbers are complete and are spaced from the wall 2". I went the cheap route and used lag shields and 3" screws to hang the panels and used another pair of 3" screws as bumpers for the bottom of the frame.
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post #8814 of 10427 Old 04-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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Oh, and still used the sawtooth hangers.
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post #8815 of 10427 Old 04-09-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Every manufacturer seems to have their secret sauce, like RPG and RealTraps using absorption / diffusion combination products, or Auralex no longer publishing specs and test results, though they did at one time, and imply there is science behind their offerings.

Full Disclosure: I am an employee of the company listed in my signature and if I'm overstepping my bounds by posting a link to test data in this message, Mods, please feel free to edit/delete the links or inform me and I will do so.

For the sake of access to information, Auralex does have their performance data listed (http://www.auralex.com/testdata/). It's slightly antiquated though, with all the data being recorded in the 90s.

In the process of expanding our acoustic line last year, we ran 3rd party comparison testing alongside Auralex products and listed the results for both ours and the Auralex products, which we purchased and had tested at the same facility they used for their own data sheets. All the test data for Auralex is from 2011, as is the data for all of our products but one, so if you were looking for more recent performance testing results from them, you can find it here: http://www.foambymail.com/acoustic-f...t-test-results
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post #8816 of 10427 Old 04-10-2012, 05:35 PM
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What would be the best material to put on the ceiling to cover the entire area? The ceiling is already painted almost black but still want something else for accustics.'

something cheap that will help. It doesnt have to be a top performer. And either black/dark grey or can be painted.
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post #8817 of 10427 Old 04-10-2012, 05:36 PM
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double post
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post #8818 of 10427 Old 04-11-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

What would be the best material to put on the ceiling to cover the entire area? The ceiling is already painted almost black but still want something else for accustics.'

something cheap that will help. It doesnt have to be a top performer. And either black/dark grey or can be painted.

I see your build thread , Sony VW1000 4k, 13' Scope, and Ten 21 Inch Subs

Do you have some strategy for acoustics?
Consultated with anyone, or all DIY?
Seems like you've went top notch $$ with the PJ, screen, etc...yet want "something cheap that will help" on the ceiling.
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post #8819 of 10427 Old 04-11-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I see your build thread , Sony VW1000 4k, 13' Scope, and Ten 21 Inch Subs

Do you have some strategy for acoustics?
Consultated with anyone, or all DIY?
Seems like you've went top notch $$ with the PJ, screen, etc...yet want "something cheap that will help" on the ceiling.

LOL, yeah dennis provided me with his plans for accustics on all the walls. From what I understand about theaters and his plans is that he only adds ceiling plans if the customer wants them. I originally didnt ask for any and have emailed him about it. I'm just wanting an easy way to have a black material on the ceiling whether it be accustical or just fabric or another material that wont "hurt" what the treatments on the walls are doing. I think the ceiling is the last thing anyone including Dennis is concerned with unless the room "needs" it.
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post #8820 of 10427 Old 04-11-2012, 05:07 PM
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The idea with constant directivity waveguides (CD) such as Procella, Pi Speakers and the SEOS thread (in the DIY speaker forum) is that there is much less acoustical energy in the vertical so you do not have a typical high energy short delay reflection bouncing off the ceiling towards you. Yet, you get good, well controlled horizontal dispersion, to create a wide listening sweet spot. With waveguides, you do not have to correct, what's not there. Prevention versus cure.

In fact well defined horizontal control from waveguides also lessens the absolute, blind need for absorption at the first reflection point and starts to muddy the equation to diffusion being more beneficial to preserve the energy content in the room instead of trying to bury it all with fiberglass.
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