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post #10591 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nitro28 View Post
I am starting to plan my acoustical treatments and had a question about super chunk bass traps. My theater is 14x22 and I was planning on putting floor to ceiling corner traps in the front at the very least. How big a difference does it make between using a 34" wide OC703 triangle vs cutting those in half and using a 24" wide triangle? If I did 24" triangles I could probably afford to do all for corners of the room. What do you think. Two in the front that are 34" or 4 that are 24"?

I have two 18" subs. One in the front and one in the rear. Thanks.
More coverage of linear corner area will trump larger traps covering less. There are minimums I recommend (4" panel 2' wide straddling a corner) but 24" wide filling the corner will do a wonderful job and if you can cover a lot of corner area it will sound much better.

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post #10592 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
More coverage of linear corner area will trump larger traps covering less. There are minimums I recommend (4" panel 2' wide straddling a corner) but 24" wide filling the corner will do a wonderful job and if you can cover a lot of corner area it will sound much better.
Thanks. What insulation would you recommend for the super chuncks? 703, Roxul, one of the Knauf products??
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post #10593 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
Not a lot has changed in the last 10 years but see some of the following to bring you up to speed.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/articles/
http://www.gikacoustics.com/educational-videos/
10 years ago, DE was recommending 1" of insulshield on entire front wall and 1" OC 703 type on side/rear walls from ear height down. These days, I see recommendations of 1" insulshield/plastic sheeting/1" insulshield on front walls, 2" oc703 on rear walls and side walls treated at first reflection points. Am I way off based as a starting point?
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post #10594 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 05:47 PM
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We went with 3" of Roxul R60 on the entire front wall, 4" of Roxul R80 for the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling, and 9" of Roxul R60 on the rear wall (just need to do the corner traps). It has made a tremendous improvement in the articulation of sound in our HT.

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post #10595 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
We went with 3" of Roxul R60 on the entire front wall, 4" of Roxul R80 for the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling, and 9" of Roxul R60 on the rear wall (just need to do the corner traps). It has made a tremendous improvement in the articulation of sound in our HT.

No other treatments? Did you measure before/after?
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post #10596 of 10619 Old 01-06-2015, 06:34 PM
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No other treatments? Did you measure before/after?
We were setting up a ground up system with new DIY speakers so we only measured for crossovers, and delays. We knew we needed first reflection panels, and I contacted GIK, and was told what should work with my setup... We have been adding panels slowly since July (running Audyssey after each mod), and I am very happy with the results. Hopefully we will have all the panels (acoustic, and decorator) done this week. My room is right on the border of having too much absorption so we need to be careful with the corner traps. One thing we did do was the rear wall has rubber sheeting covering the whole rear wall, and then GOM. We did this to try and not over dampen the room, and will do the same on the corner traps. Currently we have 7 bundles of Roxul R60 in the room that we have not unwrapped yet. I am hoping that when we do it doesn't over dampen the room. If it does we will tackle that at that time (I am assuming we could put diffusers behind the GOM if needed.

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post #10597 of 10619 Old 01-14-2015, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
We were setting up a ground up system with new DIY speakers so we only measured for crossovers, and delays. We knew we needed first reflection panels, and I contacted GIK, and was told what should work with my setup... We have been adding panels slowly since July (running Audyssey after each mod), and I am very happy with the results. Hopefully we will have all the panels (acoustic, and decorator) done this week. My room is right on the border of having too much absorption so we need to be careful with the corner traps. One thing we did do was the rear wall has rubber sheeting covering the whole rear wall, and then GOM. We did this to try and not over dampen the room, and will do the same on the corner traps. Currently we have 7 bundles of Roxul R60 in the room that we have not unwrapped yet. I am hoping that when we do it doesn't over dampen the room. If it does we will tackle that at that time (I am assuming we could put diffusers behind the GOM if needed.
Can you post REW graphs of before/after changes to show how it changed your room?
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post #10598 of 10619 Old 01-14-2015, 12:54 PM
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Hi guys,
I"m in the middle of treating my room. I covered first reflection points. I don't have any bass traps installed yet. My question is "What do bass traps achieve?". If installed absorbing panels (4" thick mineral wool acoustic panels) to reduce the early reflection. I took before/after readings of L/C/R speakers. After installation, L/R don't have any reflection above -20 below 5ms (Filtere IR Graph) but center still has many spikes going above. I have 3 panels installed on ceiling but they don't seem to have taken care of the reflection for center speakers. I wonder if its the panels????

As far as low frequency is concerned, I do have a little decay around 20-40 going above 450 ms. Based on my understand, to get rid of that low frequency issue, one has to install a lottttt of pink stuff and I don't have that much of space behind AT screen to accommodate that much of space. Above 40hz, I don't have any decay issue.
Since I don't have any bass traps installed, What difference will they bring and how can I measure that difference?

Thanks.
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post #10599 of 10619 Old 01-14-2015, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Can you post REW graphs of before/after changes to show how it changed your room?
We only did the REW plots when we were doing the crossover setup... After that we only used Audyssey after each mod. If we had just made the acoustic mods it would make sense but since we moved the speakers, and mic positions with Audyssey I don't think REW measurements would mean anything anymore..

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post #10600 of 10619 Old 01-17-2015, 02:16 PM
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I believe that some people are using screws (long), and fender washers... I have also seen some screws and washers made specifically for it but I can't remember where.
I put 2" of linacoustic with 3 mil poly in between on my front wall two weeks ago. I tried screws but found that roofing nails with the plastic caps worked perfectly. I got them at Home Depot in the hardware aisle.
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post #10601 of 10619 Old 01-17-2015, 06:33 PM
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I put 2" of linacoustic with 3 mil poly in between on my front wall two weeks ago. I tried screws but found that roofing nails with the plastic caps worked perfectly. I got them at Home Depot in the hardware aisle.
Good solution! We built a 2x4 frame on the wall and stuffed R60 in the openings and just wrapped the whole wall with black commando cloth.

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post #10602 of 10619 Old 01-17-2015, 06:42 PM
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Nice, that works if you've got the room. I agonized for months over what to use to hold everything together but I forget that the details just disappear when the lights go down.
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post #10603 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 12:20 AM
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acoustical treatment

hi,
I have a confusion, I have room 25x18x10. need sound treatment done, my plan was co cover all walls and cealing with Roxul Rockboard 80, Mineral Wool Board, it has good sound absorbing. After reed some post, get confused. is is good or not to cover all walls, I thought it will be good for sound, please give me advise to get best sound out.
Thank you
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post #10604 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Gapon View Post
is is good or not to cover all walls, I thought it will be good for sound, please give me advise to get best sound out.
It is NOT good to cover all the walls. Makes the room sound dead and unnatural.

An amateur built the Ark. Titanic was built by professionals. Of course Noah took a little advice.
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post #10605 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 01:27 AM
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How to calculate what percentage need to cover 50% -75%, and what to use 1 inch 2 inch 4 inch, some one told me 4 inch very good for bass, and again no body cant give clear answer, hope to get answer here. thank you
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post #10606 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 08:55 AM
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How to calculate what percentage need to cover 50% -75%, and what to use 1 inch 2 inch 4 inch, some one told me 4 inch very good for bass, and again no body cant give clear answer, hope to get answer here.
I would consider direction more than percentage. For example: covering the front wall with broadband absorption will keep reflections coming from the same direction as the L/C/R speakers from muddying up the soundstage. I would also cover the middle half of the back wall with absorption. Whether you want to absorb early side wall reflections or not comes down to personal preference. In the surround field, breaking up early reflections with diffusors will give you more envelopment than using absorbers. Rather than thinking about percentage, think about why you're placing treatment at a certain location.

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post #10607 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 09:06 AM
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Can you do asymetric corner traps?

I have a square room 12x12x8 where front left and rear right corners have windows. I could do floor to ceiling super chunks on front right and rear left corner and up to the windows in the other two?

Good/bad idea?

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egg crates as diffusers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I would consider direction more than percentage. For example: covering the front wall with broadband absorption will keep reflections coming from the same direction as the L/C/R speakers from muddying up the soundstage. I would also cover the middle half of the back wall with absorption. Whether you want to absorb early side wall reflections or not comes down to personal preference. In the surround field, breaking up early reflections with diffusors will give you more envelopment than using absorbers. Rather than thinking about percentage, think about why you're placing treatment at a certain location.
Thank you, I appreciate for any advises, what about egg crates use as diffusers? now I need change all design in my room to add diffusers maybe on ceiling and sides. Thanks
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post #10609 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 07:31 PM
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Starting to build my front stage and just realized I wasn't sure where to put the corner bass traps...in front of or behind the screen wall. Screen will be AT.
Thanks!
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post #10610 of 10619 Old 01-19-2015, 10:56 PM
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How to calculate what percentage need to cover 50% -75%, and what to use 1 inch 2 inch 4 inch, some one told me 4 inch very good for bass, and again no body cant give clear answer, hope to get answer here. thank you
I recommend watching the Acoustics 101 and Acoustics 102 videos from Home Theater Geeks 177 and 178 with Anthony Grimani. They are absolutely the best intro to acoustics I've heard and, notably, they cover things like coverage levels very clearly.

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/177
http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/178

(also available on YouTube)
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post #10611 of 10619 Old Yesterday, 07:08 AM
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i have two accoustical treatments from my old room (ats 24x24x2)

any advice how to attach them to a concrete wall? (which is currently covered by felt...)

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post #10612 of 10619 Old Yesterday, 07:12 AM
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i have two accoustical treatments from my old room (ats 24x24x2)

any advice how to attach them to a concrete wall? (which is currently covered by felt...)
I'm note sure how those look on the back but I assume a wooden frame at the top. Can't you just attach two angular brackets that are roughly 2" long to the wall and then hang the top wooden frame on top? If it is fabric on the back of the treatment just cut a small slot where the bracket have to come through.

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post #10613 of 10619 Old Yesterday, 08:59 AM
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I'm planning on building Fabric Panels with 2 (two) rolls of Linacoustic (1" thick each) for the Ear Height to the floor,
and then Cotton Batting from Joanne's Fabrics for the Fabric Panels "Ear Height" to the ceiling.

What size furring strips should the Fabric Panels be?

Should the Fabric Panels be exactly 2" deep/thick or should I make them a little "deeper/thicker" because the Linacoustic
will "press against" the Fabric, hindering the "smooth" look of Fabric being stretched with the "illusion" of nothing behind the Fabric?

With 2" furring strips in this scenario, will the 2" of Linacoustic "press" against the Dazian Fabric I plan on covering the Fabric Panels with?

What is the actual thickness of 1" of Linacoustic after installation (ie how far out does it stick out of the wall after installation?

Should I make my Fabric Panel 'furring strips' a little deeper/thicker (say 2 1/4") to hold 2" of Linacoustic?

How about Joanne's Fabric's Cotton Batting? How many layers will "equal" the depth of 2" of Linacoustic (since I obviously want both of the "upper" and "lower"
Fabric Panels to be flush with each other)? How thick is Cotton Batting after installation?
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post #10614 of 10619 Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
I'm note sure how those look on the back but I assume a wooden frame at the top. Can't you just attach two angular brackets that are roughly 2" long to the wall and then hang the top wooden frame on top? If it is fabric on the back of the treatment just cut a small slot where the bracket have to come through.
ok..how would you hang those brackets to the concrete wall?

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post #10615 of 10619 Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM
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ok..how would you hang those brackets to the concrete wall?
Drill holes and then use two plugs and two screws for each.
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post #10616 of 10619 Old Today, 04:50 PM
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could acoustic treatments on my walls be used to calm some of the city noise in my house?
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post #10617 of 10619 Old Today, 05:50 PM
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could acoustic treatments on my walls be used to calm some of the city noise in my house?
Not really, you want green glue and another layer of plasterboard for that.
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post #10618 of 10619 Old Today, 07:46 PM
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could acoustic treatments on my walls be used to calm some of the city noise in my house?
Well... that depends. Acoustic treatments aren't at all designed to reduce the noise level but rather selectively absorb target frequencies to prevent them from bouncing around. If you measure the decibel level in a room, then randomly install some treatments, and then re-measure the room, you'll find that there was little to no change in the sound level.

Reducing the sound level requires "soundproofing", a topic that is covered in this thread's sister thread: Soundproofing Master Thread

But... that doesn't mean that acoustic treatments wouldn't help at all. See, sound volume and "loudness" can be thought of as two separate things. The volume is the sound level as measured objectively using a decibel meter. The loudness is how loud that sound is perceived by you. There's absolutely a different between the two. Try watching a movie at 85 dB and then listen to a baby screaming at 85 dB. I guarantee you'll rate the baby screaming as much louder.

This is where the acoustic treatments can come in. By reducing the echo and reverberation in the room, the sound feels less chaotic and "smoother". You might actually feel like it's not as loud, even though the volume is unchanged.

Really, acoustically controlling a room just makes the room a more pleasant place to be, regardless of volume. It could absolutely be worth your time to do it regardless.

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post #10619 of 10619 Unread Today, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by granroth View Post
I recommend watching the Acoustics 101 and Acoustics 102 videos from Home Theater Geeks 177 and 178 with Anthony Grimani. They are absolutely the best intro to acoustics I've heard and, notably, they cover things like coverage levels very clearly.

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/177
http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/178

(also available on YouTube)
Thank you, very interesting, very interesting setup diffuser-absorber- diffuser, reed a lot of post, everybody telling different, wish to hear that sound on Acoustic 101, did some one install with same plan?
Thank you
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